The main criticism of the video seems to be that the guy is merely a trick shooter, and not historically accurate or effective.
But then again, Arrow is a comic book show, not a historical documentary.
Splitting an arrow in mid-air with another arrow might not be historically accurate, but it would still look pretty rad.
Well the critique is how he's representing himself and his "techniques". The guy in the video acts like he's doing something amazing based on one weird trick that was discovered by moms! When he's doing something a lot of people do.
I would like some money because these are artisanal nuggets of wisdom philistine.
EncA Fool with CompassionPronouns: He, Him, HisRegistered Userregular
Yeah, it's not that what Lars does isn't amazing (it's damn impressive) but his stance being that everyone else doing archery is "stupid and wrong" because "internet reasons" makes him sorta terrible.
Yeah its one thing to be an awesome trick shooter, its another thing to claim that you've got a secret style that everyone else is completely wrong about.
I mean he's not the only guy, he uses camera tricks/lower powered bows to do a lot of his stuff. I mean Oliver is using a high powered compound bow, so most of the speed shooting stuff in the video he wouldn't do.
One thing I know that Hollywood gets wrong in showing historical archery is that archers on the march in war did not have their bows strung if only because you'd have more of a chance of breaking it prior to battle.
Preacher on
I would like some money because these are artisanal nuggets of wisdom philistine.
Ray isn't a vigilante, he just has a supersuit (or a protosupersuit, or ideas for a supersuit). Felicity knows this. She also knows honest-to-god vigilantes, one super badass, one badass, one up-and-coming badass, and one scrub who might eventually get her shit together. Any (or all) of them could use supersuit (or protosupersuit) technology.
Send Ollie to the duel with an Iron Man gauntlet? The duel changes.
Felicity had every opportunity to step in, make Ray the idea guy behind a now super-powered vigilante team. But she didn't, because she was too busy storming out on Ollie then storming out on Ray.
The suit wasn't ready in time, and the point of the duel was so it'd take the League off their back. Ra's dying outside League rules means Team Arrow is being hunted by ninjas. Ray dies when a League assassin poisons his soda. He's the easiest to kill once they know his secret identity.
Ray will be a vigilante, that's what his implied mission statement about the suit is. He's not building it for a hobby. She didn't think that was an option since she knows Ray's following Ollie's path as a super-hero. Without Ollie's training or experience being proto Batman.
"noticing self destructive behavior" is a real world thing, not a super hero thing. All these people would die in real life; in super hero world, going off to try to do a thing on your own is actually a cry for help and your friends need to get your back.
Super-heroes can be self destructive. Ollie's being doing that for a while. They can die in the Arrow-verse too.
Ollie and Sarah did.
This is why Ollie was against Laurel being a super-heroine.
Being a super-hero still means they have limits, that's why it's dangerous. Team Arrow has been trying to help Ollie psychologically as long as they knew he was the Hood/Arrow. IIRC when Diggle found out he thought Ollie was crazy and he wasn't entirely wrong with that judgement. Ollie even knows how terrible his life is - that's why he broke up with Felicity, has a habit of keeping secrets and doesn't trust people. With what he's been though I don't blame for that, but it's not healthy for him. The super-hero genre isn't immune from mentally unstable or self destructive people. Arrow's tv show isn't completely detached from our reality that those rules don't apply. That's why the Arrow-verse is so good, it allows for the humanity and reality to ground the comics they're adapting.
The first fight with Ra's as a duel to the death, so no nothing Felicity could do there. The rules of the League dictated the terms of the fight. Notice how Oliver didn't ring his bow either? Or a gun? Or the Flash? So nothing she could do there either.
I strongly disagree, in that agreeing to the League's terms was their first mistake.
Second time we have the same situation. A non functioning super suit isn't going to tempt Oliver, and he wasn't looking to anyone of his friends for back up. He reluctantly accepted Diggle's help while Felicity went and helped Ray actually solve his problem. She had also possibly learned from experience that she can't stop Oliver from going and getting himself completely murdered.
Ray was the one who said he was about to blow up the tower, not her as I recall. He also admitted she was right when she stopped him because it was about to happen as he was too sleep deprived. And that was before he had been forced to take a break which he also admitted was a good idea.
Spoilers:
What, exactly, did Felicity do to help Ray solve his problem? She hacked his system and forced him to make a choice: take a break, or spin your wheels for six hours. She gave him an option instead of an ultimatum, and he took the smart decision. But Ray solved the problem himself.
Felicity hasn't done the same thing for Ollie. Diggle did - he offered to go with Ollie, and surprise, surprise, Ollie took him up on that offer.
Peanuts or not, she was right. He offered nothing to the team in the end, and tried to get them killed making him a net liability. Saying it us just the icing is just agreeing with Felicity that he was too dangerous to trust.
League rules had to be obeyed or it was still all out war. The duel only absolved Thea if he plays by their rules. Felicity pointed out this was suicide. She was right.
Right as she walked in the first time she keeps interrupting him from using a tool. After a couple rounds of this he realizes he is about to use the wrong tool on the wrong thingy and cause an explosion. Then after he got a nice hot no shower and some really hot no sleep he solved the problem like Felicity said he would
It seems odd that everyone is behind Ollie lying to his friends and treating them like children but object to Felicity trying to help by offering advice on what not to do. Felicity is a little less patronizing about it all as well, but somehow above you all Oliver gets a pass on his holier than though bullshit? This entire story line has been a God damned mess of useless drama because everyone is acting like superior children. Felicity has done some stupid shit, but is really just par for what everyone else is doing save Diggle I think.
League rules had to be obeyed or it was still all out war. The duel only absolved Thea if he plays by their rules. Felicity pointed out this was suicide. She was right.
Ehhh... I think the March 18th teaser indicates that there's a bigger plan going on there. And I'll still argue that Diggle or Deadshot or somebody should have followed Ollie and just sniped Ra's from a mile away.
It seems odd that everyone is behind Ollie lying to his friends and treating them like children but object to Felicity trying to help by offering advice on what not to do. Felicity is a little less patronizing about it all as well, but somehow above you all Oliver gets a pass on his holier than though bullshit? This entire story line has been a God damned mess of useless drama because everyone is acting like superior children. Felicity has done some stupid shit, but is really just par for what everyone else is doing save Diggle I think.
I don't see her as being less patronizing or childish, what with her storming off every time she doesn't get her way. Also, yeah, I'm not arguing that Ollie was in the right - just that his friends should have backed him up. Which I'm aware isn't a particularly solid argument.
Though I would add Thea to the list of people who have handled the whole situation remarkably well.
The first fight with Ra's as a duel to the death, so no nothing Felicity could do there. The rules of the League dictated the terms of the fight. Notice how Oliver didn't ring his bow either? Or a gun? Or the Flash? So nothing she could do there either.
I strongly disagree, in that agreeing to the League's terms was their first mistake.
Second time we have the same situation. A non functioning super suit isn't going to tempt Oliver, and he wasn't looking to anyone of his friends for back up. He reluctantly accepted Diggle's help while Felicity went and helped Ray actually solve his problem. She had also possibly learned from experience that she can't stop Oliver from going and getting himself completely murdered.
Ray was the one who said he was about to blow up the tower, not her as I recall. He also admitted she was right when she stopped him because it was about to happen as he was too sleep deprived. And that was before he had been forced to take a break which he also admitted was a good idea.
Spoilers:
What, exactly, did Felicity do to help Ray solve his problem? She hacked his system and forced him to make a choice: take a break, or spin your wheels for six hours. She gave him an option instead of an ultimatum, and he took the smart decision. But Ray solved the problem himself.
Felicity hasn't done the same thing for Ollie. Diggle did - he offered to go with Ollie, and surprise, surprise, Ollie took him up on that offer.
Peanuts or not, she was right. He offered nothing to the team in the end, and tried to get them killed making him a net liability. Saying it us just the icing is just agreeing with Felicity that he was too dangerous to trust.
League rules had to be obeyed or it was still all out war. The duel only absolved Thea if he plays by their rules. Felicity pointed out this was suicide. She was right.
Right as she walked in the first time she keeps interrupting him from using a tool. After a couple rounds of this he realizes he is about to use the wrong tool on the wrong thingy and cause an explosion. Then after he got a nice hot no shower and some really hot no sleep he solved the problem like Felicity said he would
It seems odd that everyone is behind Ollie lying to his friends and treating them like children but object to Felicity trying to help by offering advice on what not to do. Felicity is a little less patronizing about it all as well, but somehow above you all Oliver gets a pass on his holier than though bullshit? This entire story line has been a God damned mess of useless drama because everyone is acting like superior children. Felicity has done some stupid shit, but is really just par for what everyone else is doing save Diggle I think.
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JacobkoshGamble a stamp.I can show you how to be a real man!Moderatormod
edited February 2015
I think there is a perfect storm of factors at play here.
- ON THE ONE HAND I think the writers maybe don't always let some of the female characters explicate their decision making as much as Oliver gets to. We see them from "the outside" a lot more and it makes them come off as somewhat more adversarial and demanding. Oliver would seem a lot less sympathetic if we only saw him from the point of view of a character who was constantly being shut down and lied to and patronized by him.
- ON THE OTHER HAND I think there are certain viewers who are just going to perceive assertive women as being unfair and demanding no matter what, while seeing the same behaviors from dudes as being admirable and masculine. Diggle gets a lot less crap for saying things that are often basically identical to what Felicity and Laurel are saying.
- ON THE THIRD HAND I think Katie Cassidy is trying hard this season but she is just either not an actress on par with a lot of the rest of the cast or is getting some really bad direction and the result is that a lot of scenes that should feel raw and furious and grief-stricken come off as kind of pissy and petulant instead.
- ON THE FOURTH HAND, WHICH LEADS BACK TO THE FIRST HAND Even a really talented actor can be challenged to find the sympathetic note in someone who is being written as a scold.
I don't think that any of these things is "the" answer but I do think that all of them are true at least to an extent. I think the writers are not doing the best possible job with a couple of these female characters (this seems to be a consistent problem with the love interest characters on these shows), but the actresses in question are also not maybe putting their best food forward, but the audiences are also not being very charitable here and are getting really hung up on shit that they would not get hung up on coming from other characters.
Jacobkosh on
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surrealitychecklonely, but not unloveddreaming of faulty keys and latchesRegistered Userregular
um how dare u cast any aspersions whatsoever on john diggle-chan...~
+2
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jakobaggerLO THY DREAD EMPIRE CHAOS IS RESTOREDRegistered Userregular
Has this been posted yet? Apparently that third show is not going to be (solely) the Atom, but some kind of team-up show, whatever that means. The Atom, Firestorm and somehow Caity Lotz. And more!
I think there is a perfect storm of factors at play here.
- ON THE ONE HAND I think the writers maybe don't always let some of the female characters explicate their decision making as much as Oliver gets to. We see them from "the outside" a lot more and it makes them come off as somewhat more adversarial and demanding. Oliver would seem a lot less sympathetic if we only saw him from the point of view of a character who was constantly being shut down and lied to and patronized by him.
- ON THE OTHER HAND I think there are certain viewers who are just going to perceive assertive women as being unfair and demanding no matter what, while seeing the same behaviors from dudes as being admirable and masculine. Diggle gets a lot less crap for saying things that are often basically identical to what Felicity and Laurel are saying.
- ON THE THIRD HAND I think Katie Cassidy is trying hard this season but she is just either not an actress on par with a lot of the rest of the cast or is getting some really bad direction and the result is that a lot of scenes that should feel raw and furious and grief-stricken come off as kind of pissy and petulant instead.
- ON THE FOURTH HAND, WHICH LEADS BACK TO THE FIRST HAND Even a really talented actor can be challenged to find the sympathetic note in someone who is being written as a scold.
I don't think that any of these things is "the" answer but I do think that all of them are true at least to an extent. I think the writers are not doing the best possible job with a couple of these female characters (this seems to be a consistent problem with the love interest characters on these shows), but the actresses in question are also not maybe putting their best food forward, but the audiences are also not being very charitable here and are getting really hung up on shit that they would not get hung up on coming from other characters.
I think it would be hard to had to come off as justifiably angry at someone after spending two seasons at being unjustifiably angry.
Has this been posted yet? Apparently that third show is not going to be (solely) the Atom, but some kind of team-up show, whatever that means. The Atom, Firestorm and somehow Caity Lotz. And more!
So they're basically just doing a live action Batman: the Brave & the Bold? Alright, I'm game.
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ShadowenSnores in the morningLoserdomRegistered Userregular
It's probably anachronic like the show, or more hallucinations, but I honestly don't care how they have to tie canon in knots if it gets Caity Loitz back from the dead.
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JacobkoshGamble a stamp.I can show you how to be a real man!Moderatormod
As Pony reminded me tonight, this news is all coming from one source, so, you know, take this news with a full shaker of salt.
Got to watch the show in an actual timely manner, amazing. Jacobkosh has very good points. It is probably a better argument than I could make disagreeing with some of the interpretations of the actions of some of the characters that I have read the last few pages.
So instead just put me in the club who feels that this season has been a bit of a convoluted mess. Also I never know what to spoiler but
I think that Felicity has far more chemistry with Ray than with Ollie. When Felicity and Oliver kiss I feel like one of them is going to do the bit from Back to the Future when Lea Thompson explains "when I kiss you, it's like I'm kissing...my brother." I like Ray and Felicity together. Does that make me a shipper?
It's probably anachronic like the show, or more hallucinations, but I honestly don't care how they have to tie canon in knots if it gets Caity Loitz back from the dead.
I could live with an Arrow: Nyssa/Sara first meeting flashback arc
It's probably anachronic like the show, or more hallucinations, but I honestly don't care how they have to tie canon in knots if it gets Caity Loitz back from the dead.
I could live with an Arrow: Nyssa/Sara first meeting flashback arc
Speaking of which, from Wednesday
Nyssa's story about Sara laughing made me wonder at whether her laughter was innocent as Nyssa felt, or if, since she was taken in by the league after the Amazo went down, she just decided that she'd seen enough terrible things by then that whatever demonstration Ra's intended to intimidate her became laughable.
There's not a lot of cutesy nickname talk for Ray and Felicity that I could find in 30 seconds of googling. Apparently wanting them together is a minority position.
Much like Lantern Diggle, I can't shake the idea that Thea is going to grow up into Cheshire.
Like, she learns how Merlyn did what he did to her, then starts researching the plant itself, and if there's anything that can counter-act it. And/or gets ahold of whatever that plant is in Ollie's crate that fixes everything, hell maybe even a sample of Mirakuru, and then goes from there. Then a season or so later she's a master of all poisons/herbals, and between how her family has treated her, Merlyn, maybe even Nyssa, she opts for more gray than black or white (so she can still help Ollie and Roy on occasion) and WHAM.
Arrow's not a bad show by any means... but if I just stopped watching, I don't think I'd regret it.
Basically, Oliver is an asshole and I'm tired of any time he's telling people how they should think or act because knock it off you self-righteous prick.
Also, not enough budget spent on shooting mans with arrows lately.
Arrow's not a bad show by any means... but if I just stopped watching, I don't think I'd regret it.
Basically, Oliver is an asshole and I'm tired of any time he's telling people how they should think or act because knock it off you self-righteous prick.
Also, not enough budget spent on shooting mans with arrows lately.
That's why I'm glad when characters do tell him to knock it off. Which needs to happen more often I'll admit.
If you find yourself not liking the main character of Arrow maybe its time to stop watching the show? I mean that would be like not liking Castle and still watching Castle!
I would like some money because these are artisanal nuggets of wisdom philistine.
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Great video not Angelina Jolie put out.
pleasepaypreacher.net
But then again, Arrow is a comic book show, not a historical documentary.
Splitting an arrow in mid-air with another arrow might not be historically accurate, but it would still look pretty rad.
Well the critique is how he's representing himself and his "techniques". The guy in the video acts like he's doing something amazing based on one weird trick that was discovered by moms! When he's doing something a lot of people do.
pleasepaypreacher.net
Penny Arcade Rockstar Social Club / This is why I despise cyclists
I mean he's not the only guy, he uses camera tricks/lower powered bows to do a lot of his stuff. I mean Oliver is using a high powered compound bow, so most of the speed shooting stuff in the video he wouldn't do.
One thing I know that Hollywood gets wrong in showing historical archery is that archers on the march in war did not have their bows strung if only because you'd have more of a chance of breaking it prior to battle.
pleasepaypreacher.net
Ray will be a vigilante, that's what his implied mission statement about the suit is. He's not building it for a hobby. She didn't think that was an option since she knows Ray's following Ollie's path as a super-hero. Without Ollie's training or experience being proto Batman.
Super-heroes can be self destructive. Ollie's being doing that for a while. They can die in the Arrow-verse too.
Being a super-hero still means they have limits, that's why it's dangerous. Team Arrow has been trying to help Ollie psychologically as long as they knew he was the Hood/Arrow. IIRC when Diggle found out he thought Ollie was crazy and he wasn't entirely wrong with that judgement. Ollie even knows how terrible his life is - that's why he broke up with Felicity, has a habit of keeping secrets and doesn't trust people. With what he's been though I don't blame for that, but it's not healthy for him. The super-hero genre isn't immune from mentally unstable or self destructive people. Arrow's tv show isn't completely detached from our reality that those rules don't apply. That's why the Arrow-verse is so good, it allows for the humanity and reality to ground the comics they're adapting.
Slade was the poster boy for this in season two.
Peanuts or not, she was right. He offered nothing to the team in the end, and tried to get them killed making him a net liability. Saying it us just the icing is just agreeing with Felicity that he was too dangerous to trust.
League rules had to be obeyed or it was still all out war. The duel only absolved Thea if he plays by their rules. Felicity pointed out this was suicide. She was right.
It seems odd that everyone is behind Ollie lying to his friends and treating them like children but object to Felicity trying to help by offering advice on what not to do. Felicity is a little less patronizing about it all as well, but somehow above you all Oliver gets a pass on his holier than though bullshit? This entire story line has been a God damned mess of useless drama because everyone is acting like superior children. Felicity has done some stupid shit, but is really just par for what everyone else is doing save Diggle I think.
But that said I'm probably being unreasonable.
I don't see her as being less patronizing or childish, what with her storming off every time she doesn't get her way. Also, yeah, I'm not arguing that Ollie was in the right - just that his friends should have backed him up. Which I'm aware isn't a particularly solid argument.
Though I would add Thea to the list of people who have handled the whole situation remarkably well.
Penny Arcade Rockstar Social Club / This is why I despise cyclists
- ON THE ONE HAND I think the writers maybe don't always let some of the female characters explicate their decision making as much as Oliver gets to. We see them from "the outside" a lot more and it makes them come off as somewhat more adversarial and demanding. Oliver would seem a lot less sympathetic if we only saw him from the point of view of a character who was constantly being shut down and lied to and patronized by him.
- ON THE OTHER HAND I think there are certain viewers who are just going to perceive assertive women as being unfair and demanding no matter what, while seeing the same behaviors from dudes as being admirable and masculine. Diggle gets a lot less crap for saying things that are often basically identical to what Felicity and Laurel are saying.
- ON THE THIRD HAND I think Katie Cassidy is trying hard this season but she is just either not an actress on par with a lot of the rest of the cast or is getting some really bad direction and the result is that a lot of scenes that should feel raw and furious and grief-stricken come off as kind of pissy and petulant instead.
- ON THE FOURTH HAND, WHICH LEADS BACK TO THE FIRST HAND Even a really talented actor can be challenged to find the sympathetic note in someone who is being written as a scold.
I don't think that any of these things is "the" answer but I do think that all of them are true at least to an extent. I think the writers are not doing the best possible job with a couple of these female characters (this seems to be a consistent problem with the love interest characters on these shows), but the actresses in question are also not maybe putting their best food forward, but the audiences are also not being very charitable here and are getting really hung up on shit that they would not get hung up on coming from other characters.
Has this been posted yet? Apparently that third show is not going to be (solely) the Atom, but some kind of team-up show, whatever that means. The Atom, Firestorm and somehow Caity Lotz. And more!
I think it would be hard to had to come off as justifiably angry at someone after spending two seasons at being unjustifiably angry.
So they're basically just doing a live action Batman: the Brave & the Bold? Alright, I'm game.
Do not deny me more Caity Loitz.
Just don't.
So instead just put me in the club who feels that this season has been a bit of a convoluted mess. Also I never know what to spoiler but
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Or FelRay capable of shooting down Olicitiy.
Which explains Ray's love life before Felicity showed up.
Badass martial arts for days.
I could live with an Arrow: Nyssa/Sara first meeting flashback arc
Speaking of which, from Wednesday
There's not a lot of cutesy nickname talk for Ray and Felicity that I could find in 30 seconds of googling. Apparently wanting them together is a minority position.
Wii: 4521 1146 5179 1333 Pearl: 3394 4642 8367 HG: 1849 3913 3132
Penny Arcade Rockstar Social Club / This is why I despise cyclists
rayiggle
Either of those would burn a hole in my Hulu.
Though I'm kinda hoping for Nysthea.
Like, she learns how Merlyn did what he did to her, then starts researching the plant itself, and if there's anything that can counter-act it. And/or gets ahold of whatever that plant is in Ollie's crate that fixes everything, hell maybe even a sample of Mirakuru, and then goes from there. Then a season or so later she's a master of all poisons/herbals, and between how her family has treated her, Merlyn, maybe even Nyssa, she opts for more gray than black or white (so she can still help Ollie and Roy on occasion) and WHAM.
I.... I take it back
He makes a good point.
Basically, Oliver is an asshole and I'm tired of any time he's telling people how they should think or act because knock it off you self-righteous prick.
Also, not enough budget spent on shooting mans with arrows lately.
That's why I'm glad when characters do tell him to knock it off. Which needs to happen more often I'll admit.
pleasepaypreacher.net