Guys torturing yourself with these faithless EV fantasy votes isn't helping you cope in the long run. Yes, this election is different. Yes it very much seems like Trump has some level of ties to Russia. Yes he's a piece of shit monster for a variety of reasons.
However unless some serious fucking evidence is dropped before the EC Vote, none of these fantasies are going to happen and there is zero reason to believe that evidence is forthcoming.
It isn't healthy for your brain meats
I'd argue that none of this discussion is really productive, but it's therapeutic, so let everyone have it.
- No, the electors will not go faithless.
- No, we will not get rid of the EC.
- No, we will not make gains in the midterms.
- No, there will never another D president again.
Fascism won, and democracy is dead (at the federal level). The last time this occurred, the entire world went to war. Who's going to be able to free us from our authoritarian overlords?
No one.
Either democracy is dead or it isn't. And it is not dead at the federal level. Clinton hasn't been murdered, Obama hasn't been tortured, the Washington Post buildings have not been bombed, and people who have displeased Trump have not been gunned down by paramilitary forces at his beck and call.
This is a terrible candidate, who will probably be an awful president; he's not Pinochet or Hitler (it's indeed disconcerting to people who have experience of real authoritarianism to see folks claiming we're under yoke; when the Staples Center in L.A. becomes a giant prison where Trump stores left-leaning sympathizers, then we'll be under a dictatorship).
The media wasn't pushing the horse race. The horse race was real
Eh, I'd argue that the causation's pretty tangled there. If the media hadn't given Trump a ton of essentially free coverage he might well have been dead in the water.
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GatorAn alligator in ScotlandRegistered Userregular
And it's easy to blame the Jewsthe global elites the media for Clinton's catastrophic failure in the midwest blue states in Pennsylvania
The media wasn't pushing the horse race. The horse race was real
Eh, I'd argue that the causation's pretty tangled there. If the media hadn't given Trump a ton of essentially free coverage he might well have been dead in the water.
And hadn't given Hillary more negative coverage on absolutely nothing than anybody, Trump included...
I've participated in five elections. A full 40% saw the candidate for whom the most people voted passed over in favor of a born-rich New England white man, because of the intricacies of rules locked into place by New England rich white men 200 years before I was born.
I'm allowed to be a little despondent about the status of democracy.
Everything about this election was predicated on electoral college math: how primaries played out, where people spent money, where people campaigned in person. Who knows what turnout would be given a pop vote (I'm inclined to think it would favor Democrats). You can't change the rules after the game has been played.
“Reject your sense of injury and the injury itself disappears.”
― Marcus Aurelius
Guys torturing yourself with these faithless EV fantasy votes isn't helping you cope in the long run. Yes, this election is different. Yes it very much seems like Trump has some level of ties to Russia. Yes he's a piece of shit monster for a variety of reasons.
However unless some serious fucking evidence is dropped before the EC Vote, none of these fantasies are going to happen and there is zero reason to believe that evidence is forthcoming.
It isn't healthy for your brain meats
I'd argue that none of this discussion is really productive, but it's therapeutic, so let everyone have it.
- No, the electors will not go faithless.
- No, we will not get rid of the EC.
- No, we will not make gains in the midterms.
- No, there will never another D president again.
Fascism won, and democracy is dead (at the federal level). The last time this occurred, the entire world went to war. Who's going to be able to free us from our authoritarian overlords?
No one.
Either democracy is dead or it isn't. And it is not dead at the federal level. Clinton hasn't been murdered, Obama hasn't been tortured, the Washington Post buildings have not been bombed, and people who have displeased Trump have not been gunned down by paramilitary forces at his beck and call.
This is a terrible candidate, who will probably be an awful president; he's not Pinochet or Hitler (it's indeed disconcerting to people who have experience of real authoritarianism to see folks claiming we're under yoke; when the Staples Center in L.A. becomes a giant prison where Trump stores left-leaning sympathizers, then we'll be under a dictatorship).
It is my strong belief that the GOP Senate will nuke the filibuster. I also believe that they will push through some form of National Voter ID Law that creates incredibly undue burden on traditionally democratic voting blocs. I also believe that they will fill the courts with judges that will support these disenfranchisement attempts. The culmination of these simple acts ensures a one-party stranglehold on the federal government for years to come, and allows them to start making inroads on traditionally blue state and local races.
What makes you believe they will not follow this plan, or some plan like it?
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TraceGNU Terry Pratchett; GNU Gus; GNU Carrie Fisher; GNU Adam WeRegistered Userregular
Guys torturing yourself with these faithless EV fantasy votes isn't helping you cope in the long run. Yes, this election is different. Yes it very much seems like Trump has some level of ties to Russia. Yes he's a piece of shit monster for a variety of reasons.
However unless some serious fucking evidence is dropped before the EC Vote, none of these fantasies are going to happen and there is zero reason to believe that evidence is forthcoming.
It isn't healthy for your brain meats
I'd argue that none of this discussion is really productive, but it's therapeutic, so let everyone have it.
- No, the electors will not go faithless.
- No, we will not get rid of the EC.
- No, we will not make gains in the midterms.
- No, there will never another D president again.
Fascism won, and democracy is dead (at the federal level). The last time this occurred, the entire world went to war. Who's going to be able to free us from our authoritarian overlords?
No one.
Either democracy is dead or it isn't. And it is not dead at the federal level. Clinton hasn't been murdered, Obama hasn't been tortured, the Washington Post buildings have not been bombed, and people who have displeased Trump have not been gunned down by paramilitary forces at his beck and call.
This is a terrible candidate, who will probably be an awful president; he's not Pinochet or Hitler (it's indeed disconcerting to people who have experience of real authoritarianism to see folks claiming we're under yoke; when the Staples Center in L.A. becomes a giant prison where Trump stores left-leaning sympathizers, then we'll be under a dictatorship).
It is my strong belief that the GOP Senate will nuke the filibuster. I also believe that they will push through some form of National Voter ID Law that creates incredibly undue burden on traditionally democratic voting blocs. I also believe that they will fill the courts with judges that will support these disenfranchisement attempts. The culmination of these simple acts ensures a one-party stranglehold on the federal government for years to come, and allows them to start making inroads on traditionally blue state and local races.
What makes you believe they will not follow this plan, or some plan like it?
You're close but what will actually happen is the Democratic Party will drift rightward to stay competitive. Midwestern whites are about to be the Belle of the Ball
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TraceGNU Terry Pratchett; GNU Gus; GNU Carrie Fisher; GNU Adam WeRegistered Userregular
so there were rumblings of uprisings if hillary won the election
what do you think will happen if the electoral college hands it to her two months after the fact?
Seriously, we can't do that thing. Trump was talking up the system being rigged if she'd won fair and square, and people wan't a small group of individuals to unilaterally hand her the presidency that he was democratically elected to?
Fucking get real people. We can't do this thing.
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ChanusHarbinger of the Spicy Rooster ApocalypseThe Flames of a Thousand Collapsed StarsRegistered Userregular
And it's easy to blame the Jewsthe global elites the media for Clinton's catastrophic failure in the midwest blue states in Pennsylvania
Very trumpy, actually
OK, Then if it wasn't a combination of unfair media coverage, comey's october suprise, wikileaks, racism, and voter suppression what was it?
the DNC ignoring strongholds it thought were safe and ignoring the undercurrent of resentment in those areas
Ignoring is probably too strong. Prioritizing other areas made sense given the polling. Yes, in hindsight, some more enthusiasm in those regions would have helped, but given they seemed reliable strongholds before that, it made sense to focus elsewhere.
(If that's too small, it's a word cloud about what voters have heard about Trump/Clinton)
In this election, that's the problem. I think the 2010/2014 elections are the reason to indict the Democratic establishment more generally.
It was a problem, one of the problems. It was enabled by who we choose to run. And yeah, the media didn't help. But we dropped the ball, threw interceptions, and didn't have a good offensive line. We can't just yell at the refs because they made bad calls, we have to fix our damn team too.
This is a word map based on media coverage. Please point on the map where you see any words related to policy.
It's entirely the media's fault. Clinton talked about what she would do to help <everyone> constantly, but you wouldn't know it from anyone reporting on her. They are 100% to blame for depressing D voter and handing the election to Donald.
No, dude. That is shortsighted. You cannot lay the blame for this entirely at the feet of the media, they only represent part of the whole picture. We went with a candidate we knew had these problems, but we thought being a policy wonk with a popular president and a good enough economy would make up for it. It didn't. She didn't resonate with enough voters in the parts of the country that she needed to win. If your optics are gonna be about being a part of the problem, a symbol of corruption, a Washington insider, then you could not win 2016. If the zeitgeist continues, you cannot win 2018 or 2020 either.
And what are we going to do to fix "the media" in the case of it being "entirely the media's fault"? We've got no legislative leverage over them, and they profited handily from a horse race. If that's what gets you coverage, if that's what gets your voters to show up in the places you need them, then we need to pushing the firebrand using revolutionary language.
On top of that, we made the (reasonable) assumption that being a racist, misogynist, xenophobic, unqualified, childish, corrupt, and proudly-ignorant liar surrounded by conspiracy theorists would be a disqualifying recipe. It wasn't. Here's the thing, though - and I don't want to take away from your larger message of how the Democratic party needs to improve in a practical way, because I agree and think it will help - the part I mentioned? That's not on us, and it's not on the Clinton campaign.
I can't take electoral college whining seriously. If Trump had a bare majority in the popular vote and Clinton had 300+ electoral votes, literally none of you would think this was a bad thing. I sure wouldn't!
I've participated in five elections. A full 40% saw the candidate for whom the most people voted passed over in favor of a born-rich New England white man, because of the intricacies of rules locked into place by New England rich white men 200 years before I was born.
I'm allowed to be a little despondent about the status of democracy.
Everything about this election was predicated on electoral college math: how primaries played out, where people spent money, where people campaigned in person. Who knows what turnout would be given a pop vote (I'm inclined to think it would favor Democrats). You can't change the rules after the game has been played.
I didn't advocate changing the rules after the game was played. I'm lamenting being forced to play a crappy game designed to protect interests that aren't my own.
Guys torturing yourself with these faithless EV fantasy votes isn't helping you cope in the long run. Yes, this election is different. Yes it very much seems like Trump has some level of ties to Russia. Yes he's a piece of shit monster for a variety of reasons.
However unless some serious fucking evidence is dropped before the EC Vote, none of these fantasies are going to happen and there is zero reason to believe that evidence is forthcoming.
It isn't healthy for your brain meats
I'd argue that none of this discussion is really productive, but it's therapeutic, so let everyone have it.
- No, the electors will not go faithless.
- No, we will not get rid of the EC.
- No, we will not make gains in the midterms.
- No, there will never another D president again.
Fascism won, and democracy is dead (at the federal level). The last time this occurred, the entire world went to war. Who's going to be able to free us from our authoritarian overlords?
No one.
Either democracy is dead or it isn't. And it is not dead at the federal level. Clinton hasn't been murdered, Obama hasn't been tortured, the Washington Post buildings have not been bombed, and people who have displeased Trump have not been gunned down by paramilitary forces at his beck and call.
This is a terrible candidate, who will probably be an awful president; he's not Pinochet or Hitler (it's indeed disconcerting to people who have experience of real authoritarianism to see folks claiming we're under yoke; when the Staples Center in L.A. becomes a giant prison where Trump stores left-leaning sympathizers, then we'll be under a dictatorship).
It is my strong belief that the GOP Senate will nuke the filibuster. I also believe that they will push through some form of National Voter ID Law that creates incredibly undue burden on traditionally democratic voting blocs. I also believe that they will fill the courts with judges that will support these disenfranchisement attempts. The culmination of these simple acts ensures a one-party stranglehold on the federal government for years to come, and allows them to start making inroads on traditionally blue state and local races.
What makes you believe they will not follow this plan, or some plan like it?
You're close but what will actually happen is the Democratic Party will drift rightward to stay competitive. Midwestern whites are about to be the Belle of the Ball
If they have to functionally join the GOP to get elected, how does that change my prediction?
The media wasn't pushing the horse race. The horse race was real
Seriously.
You don't lose by surprise on game day because the other guy was propped up by the press.
Actually Trump beat Clinton by something like 10% of late deciders in those key states, so actually the horse race largely wasn't real all the way up to October.
It's still early yet in the electorate post-mortem, so I'll happily be proven wrong when more data comes in.
Guys torturing yourself with these faithless EV fantasy votes isn't helping you cope in the long run. Yes, this election is different. Yes it very much seems like Trump has some level of ties to Russia. Yes he's a piece of shit monster for a variety of reasons.
However unless some serious fucking evidence is dropped before the EC Vote, none of these fantasies are going to happen and there is zero reason to believe that evidence is forthcoming.
It isn't healthy for your brain meats
I'd argue that none of this discussion is really productive, but it's therapeutic, so let everyone have it.
- No, the electors will not go faithless.
- No, we will not get rid of the EC.
- No, we will not make gains in the midterms.
- No, there will never another D president again.
Fascism won, and democracy is dead (at the federal level). The last time this occurred, the entire world went to war. Who's going to be able to free us from our authoritarian overlords?
No one.
Either democracy is dead or it isn't. And it is not dead at the federal level. Clinton hasn't been murdered, Obama hasn't been tortured, the Washington Post buildings have not been bombed, and people who have displeased Trump have not been gunned down by paramilitary forces at his beck and call.
This is a terrible candidate, who will probably be an awful president; he's not Pinochet or Hitler (it's indeed disconcerting to people who have experience of real authoritarianism to see folks claiming we're under yoke; when the Staples Center in L.A. becomes a giant prison where Trump stores left-leaning sympathizers, then we'll be under a dictatorship).
It is my strong belief that the GOP Senate will nuke the filibuster. I also believe that they will push through some form of National Voter ID Law that creates incredibly undue burden on traditionally democratic voting blocs. I also believe that they will fill the courts with judges that will support these disenfranchisement attempts. The culmination of these simple acts ensures a one-party stranglehold on the federal government for years to come, and allows them to start making inroads on traditionally blue state and local races.
What makes you believe they will not follow this plan, or some plan like it?
Jesus Christ man read my last sentence
Even then it's still a democracy
One party stranglehold? Sure, until the people are tired of the Republican jig and vote for the other guy! The Democrats had a "stranglehold" over the Deep South until they didn't, and had a "stranglehold" over the Midwest until yesterday.
A one party stranglehold is Bob Dylan arrested at Staples Center, tortured, having his hands broken and ordered to play his guitar, and then murdered. Respect people who have lived (or at least has family that lived) through that.
Also, voter ID is a tool of the devil for a LARGE part the rightwing voting bloc.
That you do not take into account the possibility that Trump might lose in the 2020 election is folly.
I would again suggest you take some time off and seek some council - professional council, not strangers on the internet. I actually am worried about you.
Posts
Either democracy is dead or it isn't. And it is not dead at the federal level. Clinton hasn't been murdered, Obama hasn't been tortured, the Washington Post buildings have not been bombed, and people who have displeased Trump have not been gunned down by paramilitary forces at his beck and call.
This is a terrible candidate, who will probably be an awful president; he's not Pinochet or Hitler (it's indeed disconcerting to people who have experience of real authoritarianism to see folks claiming we're under yoke; when the Staples Center in L.A. becomes a giant prison where Trump stores left-leaning sympathizers, then we'll be under a dictatorship).
Sanders just looked bewildered and tried to interrupt saying "P-pardon her? She hadn't been indicted for any-"
Which is all he could get out as Blitzer rambled on comparing Clinton to Nixon.
Eh, I'd argue that the causation's pretty tangled there. If the media hadn't given Trump a ton of essentially free coverage he might well have been dead in the water.
Very trumpy, actually
And hadn't given Hillary more negative coverage on absolutely nothing than anybody, Trump included...
Everything about this election was predicated on electoral college math: how primaries played out, where people spent money, where people campaigned in person. Who knows what turnout would be given a pop vote (I'm inclined to think it would favor Democrats). You can't change the rules after the game has been played.
― Marcus Aurelius
Path of Exile: themightypuck
https://www.change.org/p/electoral-college-electors-electoral-college-make-hillary-clinton-president-on-december-19
So there's that. Currently at 918k.
It's going to be a nightmare of a presidency.
YET
But no, the Media certainly doesn't have a hard-on for destroying Clinton's reputation. None whatsoever.
Best case makes Reagan look like FDR.
I mean, we already kinda had a petition. It was the election. There were rules. Clinton lost.
OK, Then if it wasn't a combination of unfair media coverage, comey's october suprise, wikileaks, racism, and voter suppression what was it?
It is my strong belief that the GOP Senate will nuke the filibuster. I also believe that they will push through some form of National Voter ID Law that creates incredibly undue burden on traditionally democratic voting blocs. I also believe that they will fill the courts with judges that will support these disenfranchisement attempts. The culmination of these simple acts ensures a one-party stranglehold on the federal government for years to come, and allows them to start making inroads on traditionally blue state and local races.
What makes you believe they will not follow this plan, or some plan like it?
honestly I think we're screwed and I hope Canada is willing to take in some American refugees in the future.
Cronyism mode engage
what do you think will happen if the electoral college hands it to her two months after the fact?
It was a lot of those things. And we have to consider the possibility that Priebus kicked our ass
It's all talk.
the DNC ignoring strongholds it thought were safe and ignoring the undercurrent of resentment in those areas
You're close but what will actually happen is the Democratic Party will drift rightward to stay competitive. Midwestern whites are about to be the Belle of the Ball
Massive civil unrest where the national guard gets called into multiple cities to enforce peace.
Which is what I think is going to start happening anyways in certain states because hoo boy does Trump not like protestors.
Seriously, we can't do that thing. Trump was talking up the system being rigged if she'd won fair and square, and people wan't a small group of individuals to unilaterally hand her the presidency that he was democratically elected to?
Fucking get real people. We can't do this thing.
i don't believe they would have actually done anything had she won the electoral college outright
i don't think discounting massive unrest if the election is seen to be stolen and handed to her is a good idea
The Dems stopped giving a fuck about the rural poor, and so the poor vote went 50/50 instead of 70% Dem.
This isn't fucking complicated, the data is right there. It's the economy, stupid. It's always the economy.
Trump supporters actively hoping that the dems revolt so they can gun them down.
Resident 8bitdo expert.
Resident hybrid/flap cover expert.
What makes you think the national guard will be on her side?
the electoral college is fairly bullshit
and she did win the popular vote
but that will not matter if the electors go faithless
Ignoring is probably too strong. Prioritizing other areas made sense given the polling. Yes, in hindsight, some more enthusiasm in those regions would have helped, but given they seemed reliable strongholds before that, it made sense to focus elsewhere.
Idealist view? People get angry, some shots are fired, the rest of the world sighs relief, and we get to abolish the EC for being "corrupt".
The word cloud is right there. Are you saying that it didn't matter or that it was Clinton's fault?
Because this isn't a TV show and the national guard is not more loyal to a state governor than they are to the country as a whole.
I didn't advocate changing the rules after the game was played. I'm lamenting being forced to play a crappy game designed to protect interests that aren't my own.
If they have to functionally join the GOP to get elected, how does that change my prediction?
It's still early yet in the electorate post-mortem, so I'll happily be proven wrong when more data comes in.
I'm sorry could you please justify that claim?
Jesus Christ man read my last sentence
Even then it's still a democracy
One party stranglehold? Sure, until the people are tired of the Republican jig and vote for the other guy! The Democrats had a "stranglehold" over the Deep South until they didn't, and had a "stranglehold" over the Midwest until yesterday.
A one party stranglehold is Bob Dylan arrested at Staples Center, tortured, having his hands broken and ordered to play his guitar, and then murdered. Respect people who have lived (or at least has family that lived) through that.
Also, voter ID is a tool of the devil for a LARGE part the rightwing voting bloc.
That you do not take into account the possibility that Trump might lose in the 2020 election is folly.
I would again suggest you take some time off and seek some council - professional council, not strangers on the internet. I actually am worried about you.
Weren't two of them going faithless before anyone voted, saying they couldn't bring themselves to vote for Clinton even if their state did?