Whelp won the short campaign in a hilariously anticlimactic way. Which perfectly suits Goblins. I Assassinated the lord of change with a punk Big Boss who was half his level and then started stacking up on Archaon. I moved Skasnik into position, then used underways to move up a second stack but they got intercepted. I figred it was a lost cause but fought it anyway and managed to pull out the win somehow. My Night Gobbo 1v1'd Archaon and managed to take him out thanks to the Sword of Antiheroes, a healing potion and like 120 gobbo archers pouring arrows into him. It was a pretty good way to finish, Gobbo Spearmen and Nasty Skulkers taking out chosen, trolls and giants. Might keep playing for the long victory or just go and be a Wood Elf.
Bretonnia is really hard to play well at the start. It really fits the fantasy that press ganged peasants are quick to run away, but damn, the start is real rough.
Bretonnia is all about hammer and anvil tactics (infantry peasants hold the line, knights flank then charge enemy from behind), and because infantry leadership is so poor you need support units like Grail Reliquae to ensure they don't rout before the cav charge. Be sure to allow Greenskin incursions to level up your lords to get the Knight Vows so they can use good cavalry.
Have to say, my Fay Enchantress campaign has been my favorite so far, had a lot of fun
Also need to make sure the hammer part comes early and often; have had a couple of fights that I should have won (or won harder) but didn't because I forget I'm not Empire and use my knights to protect my flanks and archers from enemy cavalry, rather than charge the shit out of the front line. Not only does that leave the peasants alone for way to long, most Bretonnia knights are actually terrible at that sort of duty, thanks to their low armor and dependence on the charge.
Haven't really seen the use for Mounted Yeomen myself. Especially since they eat up one of your precious peasant slots.
Even when taking out enemy artillery you're usually better off using heavy cav. Especially grail knights (super-especially flying grailknights) since they're immune to vigour and can run all day without losing their combat efficiency.
Oh yea, mid to late game you should disband them and just use knights for cav unless you're stuck in a situation where you're out of Lords that have Knight Vows (upkeep penalty is high). For early game though they're good to have until you can get knights
They *are* some of the best light cav in the game. IIRC only Glade Riders and Marauder Horsemasters are strictly better, and they are both more expensive. Basic Yeomen can even win straight up fights with warbeasts and "decent melee combatant" missile troops!
Considering how tight money can be early on with Bretonnia (is it just me, or all the recruitment buildings hideously expensive?) it's nice to have cheap to maintain (<1/2 the upkeep of KotR, <1/3 the upkeep of Grail and Pegasus Knights, and no vows required) cavalry you can use for cavalry things that would be a waste of your Knight's strengths, like protecting flanks from enemy light cav and warbeasts, ambushing enemy artillery, or just harassing the hell out of enemy missile until you've broken the front line.
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H3KnucklesBut we decide which is rightand which is an illusion.Registered Userregular
Neat! I might pick up Beastmen and Chaos to complete the DLC. I've just started Wood Elves and they seem pretty fun. I do enjoy sitting in woods and putting arrows in things.
I'm not sure if I'll bother going for a Long Campaign victory again though. It was an extra 20 odd turns of moving through chaos wasteland kicking over the Norse to get to those northern dwarf holds.
Darn, just bought Beastmen the other day too. I suppose I'll see if I can get a refund and re-buy.
Might pick up the Dwarf/Goblin DLC there while it's on sale. No idea on Chaos, they're one of my favorite factions for Warhammer, but have not heard good things on it.
FencingsaxIt is difficult to get a man to understand, when his salary depends upon his not understandingGNU Terry PratchettRegistered Userregular
So I was doing alright on Bretonnia, until woodelves decided they didn't want peace, and then Skraelings kicked the door in. This campaign may be a lost cause.
My orcs are rampaging. I have two armies playing clean up on the final border prince province. Grimgor is cleaning out the last dwarves of Zhufbar in the northeast. Next of Angrand and then consolidating all the orc viable holds.I have the 3 legendary lords (Grimgor, Helmet guy, waagh prophet) with full late game stacks. I have two other armies I am upgrading as I go and they lose units. I am making 4k a turn and with normal combat I bring about 10k in looted goods. I guess I need to finish off chaos at some point they are doing what Chaos does.
But the waagh is coming. Nothing can stop the waagh.
Yeah, the horde gameplay is more fun than I thought despite some minor issues with it. I might need to try Greenskins soon. Actually beat the Grand Campaign as Beastmen which surprised me. It also made the big build up to Archaon showing up kind of hilarious. Oh Chaos has spawned? I've already wiped out the Empire and all it's provinces and Bretonnia is going down hard. Guess you can fight Kislev. Now the Lord of the End Times is here? Oh big goddamn whoop. Most of the world is a flaming wreckage at this point, you're kind of late to the party Archy.
Yeah, the horde gameplay is more fun than I thought despite some minor issues with it. I might need to try Greenskins soon. Actually beat the Grand Campaign as Beastmen which surprised me. It also made the big build up to Archaon showing up kind of hilarious. Oh Chaos has spawned? I've already wiped out the Empire and all it's provinces and Bretonnia is going down hard. Guess you can fight Kislev. Now the Lord of the End Times is here? Oh big goddamn whoop. Most of the world is a flaming wreckage at this point, you're kind of late to the party Archy.
In my Beast run I had just tipped the balance against the humans when all of sudden the ruinous powers take notice, send in that guy to be my friend, and everything was coming up Morghur from then on. He pushed toward the Vampires (through the Empire's remnant) and tied up all their forces, letting me sweep through the southern lords and elves on the other side.
Never played a game like this where the AI jumped in on my side to dogpile itself quite like that. It was fun; not looking forward to being on the other side though.
Yeah, the Empire campaign actually seems kind of comparably difficult because Chaos showing up is a big damn deal for you and can legitimately start pushing your shit in if you're bogged down in a bunch of other wars with your myriad enemies.
Meanwhile in my (new) Von Carstein game I went for the throat and retook Sylvania by turn eight and finished sieging Altdorf and destroying the Empire at turn 54, and was kind of dreading Chaos showing up only to find they were neutral to me (presumably until Archeon hits the scene) and that gives me a lot of breathing room to work. I can imagine him being a huge help when he shows up is fucking awesome.
Did you start with Morghur by the way? I started with Khazrak, as I was afraid of the extra Minotaur upkeep, but overall Morghur sound super awesome. Been thinking of trying him as my first lord or going Malagor and rushing Chaos Spawn to get him early.
Yeah, the Empire campaign actually seems kind of comparably difficult because Chaos showing up is a big damn deal for you and can legitimately start pushing your shit in if you're bogged down in a bunch of other wars with your myriad enemies.
Meanwhile in my (new) Von Carstein game I went for the throat and retook Sylvania by turn eight and finished sieging Altdorf and destroying the Empire at turn 54, and was kind of dreading Chaos showing up only to find they were neutral to me (presumably until Archeon hits the scene) and that gives me a lot of breathing room to work. I can imagine him being a huge help when he shows up is fucking awesome.
Did you start with Morghur by the way? I started with Khazrak, as I was afraid of the extra Minotaur upkeep, but overall Morghur sound super awesome. Been thinking of trying him as my first lord or going Malagor and rushing Chaos Spawn to get him early.
Yeah, started with Morghur. Super cheap chaos spawn worked out great. They have 0 upkeep after all the upgrades; I never touched Minotaurs until I confederated with another herd (which seemed to pay its own upkeep on them). And they still turn up in Brayherds; so I didn't feel disadvantaged for their absense in the bulk of my forces.
Morghur looks amazing and has higher upkeep on the best Beast Men unit so fuck that
I "think" they might have changed/broken starting LL bonuses so unit/army based ones are only for the LL, and even if they aren't your starting one.
When I played Von Carstien, Vlad had his stupidly awesome Vanguard for full army bonus even though I started with Isabella. When I confederated with the Fey Enchantress on my Bretonnia playthrough, she still had her starting Grail Guardians, and I was still able to get the normal upkeep with them despite her not having the Grail Vow, which would be the case if I had started as Cassaconne instead of Bretonnia. When I mouse over the little grail icon on the unit card, it even says I'm paying a lower upkeep because I have the Fey Enchantress' starting LL bonus.
Then suppose I can try starting as Malagor, who I really like, just wish they would give pure Spellcaster LLs more of a reason to exist. Heard the Fey Enchantress is pretty good though.
Then I can tech to Chaos Spawn and get Morghur. Unless the upkeep thing works with him no matter what.
KadokenGiving Ends to my Friends and it Feels StupendousRegistered Userregular
edited March 2017
It is is so great yet so infustigating how much the game changes with an overhaul mod like Lorehammer. The AI stop being stupid and act like rational characters. They don't just allow steamrolls like in vanilla. Their army compositions are much better. There's a feeling of actual complex pacing in the game unlike vanilla where it's a just a rush to Chaos.
It is is so great yet so infustigating how much the game changes with an overhaul mod like Lorehammer. The AI stop being stupid and act like rational characters. They don't just allow steamrolls like in vanilla. Their army compositions are much better. There's a feeling of actual complex pacing in the game unlike vanilla where it's a just a rush to Chaos.
by better army compositions do you mean more sensible/balanced in a general sense or more, like, xxhardcore/powergamey? i'm assuming there are cheese compositions that work but aren't maybe in the exact spirit of the game
It is is so great yet so infustigating how much the game changes with an overhaul mod like Lorehammer. The AI stop being stupid and act like rational characters. They don't just allow steamrolls like in vanilla. Their army compositions are much better. There's a feeling of actual complex pacing in the game unlike vanilla where it's a just a rush to Chaos.
by better army compositions do you mean more sensible/balanced in a general sense or more, like, xxhardcore/powergamey? i'm assuming there are cheese compositions that work but aren't maybe in the exact spirit of the game
In a sensible way, not so much powergamey. Like, I've yet to find an army that has like 16/20 Archers (not Wood Elves) or just full of chariots.
Army composition does seems.to have gotten better recently. Still slot of chariots though.
Isabella and her two vampire friends on hellsteeds floating around and defending on enemy artillery is awesome.
CA have stated we'll get more info about the next game on the 31st. Can't wait!
I do wish AI factions were better at resettling ruined settlements.
Issue I noticed is that the AI won't settle unless the area is nearly completely clear of enemies. Warhammer AI is extra avoidant to entering battles/conflicts that'll lose compared to previous total war games.
Decided to try a campaign as Skarsnik. After a couple rough starting attempts I wasn't happy with, I finally got things underway and have been kind of a wrecking ball ever since. My favorite thing has been taking on beefy Dwarf forces with my goblins and just drowning them in a tide of green. Had some awesome moments like trying to blast a Dwarf Lord with my Goblin Shaman only to find the spell's myriad projectiles missed the lord entirely but took out several of my own goblins. Well, Mork obviously wanted them to die.
I ended up confederating with Wurzag immediately after finding him. Was surprised he was so eager, but turns out he was about to die. Still, he's pretty awesome. I was getting all ready to march on to Karak Eight Peaks when suddenly the main Dwarf Faction declared war and tried to snipe Skarsnik. They failed. Next turn I murdered their king while he attempted to roll away from dozens of goblins with pointy sticks on his dumb go-kart. I then wiped them out and as a bonus Grimgor has decided to confederate with me because of two Dwarf factions double teaming him. So now I think it's about time to take back what's mine.
Karak Eight Peaks went better than expected when I got around to it (had to put down a bunch of rebellions because Chaos showed up). Had Skarsnik, Grimgor, and Wurzag surround it. I could have easily auto-resolved for a win at that point, but decided after all the build up I should do the battle. Didn't have any siege equipment built, but that was alright. Apparently Wurzag was all the siege I fucking needed. He took out a few bucket loads of Greenskins with Foot of Gork, completely decimating the forces on their battlements with two casts. I was just getting a third one off after pouring into the fortress in mass when the enemy just gave up.
Does increasing difficulty make the ai more aggressive against the player and more cooperative between ai factions? Or does it just lower your combat stats and raise the ai's income?
Both difficulty changes give you stat penalties/the AI advantages.
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Zavianuniversal peace sounds better than forever warRegistered Userregular
edited March 2017
I also recently bought the Goblin DLC and started a Skarsnik campaign. It was intimidating at first since you start off surrounded by factions that hate you, and only having access to gobbos was...interesting. Eventually I managed to destroy the southern Dworfs which made the Elves complacent enough to sign non-aggression pacts, so I went east allll the way to Eight Peaks where I sieged out those gobbo rebels. If you upgrade all the Goblin skills for your Lords you can get some pretty cheap OP goblins that wreck almost everything. It's starting to look pretty good for Skarsnik and his goblin kingdom!
You can pretty much ignore everything if you have the resources to take on Eight Peaks. Like none of the stuff you start with matters even a little bit.
Yeah I'd say it's actually better to build up two armies in your starting provinces then just abandon them to make a big play for eight peaks as your new home. Trying to hold that location and expand to the badlands is going to be very rough going.
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That was my biggest mistake with my campaign currently. I've gotten too bogged down trying to take and hold a bunch of shit to the west. Probably won't be a huge issue overall, but it did delay me a ton.
Oh yeah, I was looking at all the various lords and was just like fucking wow at that upkeep penalty. Skarsnik just doesn't get orcs, but with his bonuses for goblins I haven't felt much of a loss there.
Considering how cheap Skarsniks armies are I didn't have a problem raising two armies to take Eight peaks and then a third army to hold my provinces against all comers.
"The western world sips from a poisonous cocktail: Polarisation, populism, protectionism and post-truth"
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Also need to make sure the hammer part comes early and often; have had a couple of fights that I should have won (or won harder) but didn't because I forget I'm not Empire and use my knights to protect my flanks and archers from enemy cavalry, rather than charge the shit out of the front line. Not only does that leave the peasants alone for way to long, most Bretonnia knights are actually terrible at that sort of duty, thanks to their low armor and dependence on the charge.
They *are* some of the best light cav in the game. IIRC only Glade Riders and Marauder Horsemasters are strictly better, and they are both more expensive. Basic Yeomen can even win straight up fights with warbeasts and "decent melee combatant" missile troops!
Considering how tight money can be early on with Bretonnia (is it just me, or all the recruitment buildings hideously expensive?) it's nice to have cheap to maintain (<1/2 the upkeep of KotR, <1/3 the upkeep of Grail and Pegasus Knights, and no vows required) cavalry you can use for cavalry things that would be a waste of your Knight's strengths, like protecting flanks from enemy light cav and warbeasts, ambushing enemy artillery, or just harassing the hell out of enemy missile until you've broken the front line.
Would you say you went to the wood( elve)s to live deliberately? :P
I'm not sure if I'll bother going for a Long Campaign victory again though. It was an extra 20 odd turns of moving through chaos wasteland kicking over the Norse to get to those northern dwarf holds.
Might pick up the Dwarf/Goblin DLC there while it's on sale. No idea on Chaos, they're one of my favorite factions for Warhammer, but have not heard good things on it.
But the waagh is coming. Nothing can stop the waagh.
In my Beast run I had just tipped the balance against the humans when all of sudden the ruinous powers take notice, send in that guy to be my friend, and everything was coming up Morghur from then on. He pushed toward the Vampires (through the Empire's remnant) and tied up all their forces, letting me sweep through the southern lords and elves on the other side.
Never played a game like this where the AI jumped in on my side to dogpile itself quite like that. It was fun; not looking forward to being on the other side though.
Meanwhile in my (new) Von Carstein game I went for the throat and retook Sylvania by turn eight and finished sieging Altdorf and destroying the Empire at turn 54, and was kind of dreading Chaos showing up only to find they were neutral to me (presumably until Archeon hits the scene) and that gives me a lot of breathing room to work. I can imagine him being a huge help when he shows up is fucking awesome.
Did you start with Morghur by the way? I started with Khazrak, as I was afraid of the extra Minotaur upkeep, but overall Morghur sound super awesome. Been thinking of trying him as my first lord or going Malagor and rushing Chaos Spawn to get him early.
Yeah, started with Morghur. Super cheap chaos spawn worked out great. They have 0 upkeep after all the upgrades; I never touched Minotaurs until I confederated with another herd (which seemed to pay its own upkeep on them). And they still turn up in Brayherds; so I didn't feel disadvantaged for their absense in the bulk of my forces.
I "think" they might have changed/broken starting LL bonuses so unit/army based ones are only for the LL, and even if they aren't your starting one.
When I played Von Carstien, Vlad had his stupidly awesome Vanguard for full army bonus even though I started with Isabella. When I confederated with the Fey Enchantress on my Bretonnia playthrough, she still had her starting Grail Guardians, and I was still able to get the normal upkeep with them despite her not having the Grail Vow, which would be the case if I had started as Cassaconne instead of Bretonnia. When I mouse over the little grail icon on the unit card, it even says I'm paying a lower upkeep because I have the Fey Enchantress' starting LL bonus.
Pretty much this. His skill tree is sweet, but I can't forsake minotaurs. I tried it and it felt dirty.
Then I can tech to Chaos Spawn and get Morghur. Unless the upkeep thing works with him no matter what.
by better army compositions do you mean more sensible/balanced in a general sense or more, like, xxhardcore/powergamey? i'm assuming there are cheese compositions that work but aren't maybe in the exact spirit of the game
Random mini-events that gives everyone massive bonuses to Charge Bonus, Weapon strength, or Magic Reserve.
So, yeah not worth it if you're not going to be using the blood in the first place.
In a sensible way, not so much powergamey. Like, I've yet to find an army that has like 16/20 Archers (not Wood Elves) or just full of chariots.
Sounds pretty on-brand, though.
Isabella and her two vampire friends on hellsteeds floating around and defending on enemy artillery is awesome.
CA have stated we'll get more info about the next game on the 31st. Can't wait!
I do wish AI factions were better at resettling ruined settlements.
Issue I noticed is that the AI won't settle unless the area is nearly completely clear of enemies. Warhammer AI is extra avoidant to entering battles/conflicts that'll lose compared to previous total war games.
I ended up confederating with Wurzag immediately after finding him. Was surprised he was so eager, but turns out he was about to die. Still, he's pretty awesome. I was getting all ready to march on to Karak Eight Peaks when suddenly the main Dwarf Faction declared war and tried to snipe Skarsnik. They failed. Next turn I murdered their king while he attempted to roll away from dozens of goblins with pointy sticks on his dumb go-kart. I then wiped them out and as a bonus Grimgor has decided to confederate with me because of two Dwarf factions double teaming him. So now I think it's about time to take back what's mine.
-Antje Jackelén, Archbishop of the Church of Sweden