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Wonder_Hippie
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So, has anybody seen the new ad campaign Burger King's been doing? It's the one where they dropped the Whopper from the menu for a day and watched people get all pissy about it. At the end of one of the commercials, two guys are standing outside one of the restaurants, and one quips, "No Whopper? They might as well be Burger Queen instead of Burger King."
The first time I heard this, I turned to my girlfriend and said, "Well, that's either sexist or homophobic," and turned back to playing Rise of Nations. That was my entire reaction up until now. My question is, was it a valid reaction? Is my PC-meter to sensitive? Was it an under-reaction?
You see, I ask because shit like this really gets under my skin. It's the kind of prejudice that lies just under organized de facto prejudice and just pervades the very foundations of the way people think. Yeah, the guy was making a stupid joke, but (and I hate to get all Freudian here) couldn't the reason for making the joke in the first place be some deeply ingrained subconcious sexism? Sexism or any other prejudice largely keeps its hold in our culture because of it. To me, it doesn't seem to be as much of a death knell of these ideas and thoughts like some might suggest, but more of a sort of sublimation from one outlet for prejudice to another.
I strongly suspect this for the South, at least, where racist, sexist, and homophobic jokes spill out of peoples' mouths like waterfalls on a regular basis in any one of my regular haunts around town. If I'm right, it's probably just as common in other rural areas outside of this region. Does anybody else feel like this towards these subtle instances of prejudice, or am I just taking it too seriously? What other instances of subtle prejudice have you guys run into?
The first time I heard this, I turned to my girlfriend and said, "Well, that's either sexist or homophobic," and turned back to playing Rise of Nations. That was my entire reaction up until now. My question is, was it a valid reaction? Is my PC-meter to sensitive? Was it an under-reaction?
You see, I ask because shit like this really gets under my skin. It's the kind of prejudice that lies just under organized de facto prejudice and just pervades the very foundations of the way people think. Yeah, the guy was making a stupid joke, but (and I hate to get all Freudian here) couldn't the reason for making the joke in the first place be some deeply ingrained subconcious sexism? Sexism or any other prejudice largely keeps its hold in our culture because of it. To me, it doesn't seem to be as much of a death knell of these ideas and thoughts like some might suggest, but more of a sort of sublimation from one outlet for prejudice to another.
I strongly suspect this for the South, at least, where racist, sexist, and homophobic jokes spill out of peoples' mouths like waterfalls on a regular basis in any one of my regular haunts around town. If I'm right, it's probably just as common in other rural areas outside of this region. Does anybody else feel like this towards these subtle instances of prejudice, or am I just taking it too seriously? What other instances of subtle prejudice have you guys run into?
Wonder_Hippie on
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I'd say get thicker skin. It doesn't bother me in the least. Granted, I'm not a woman or gay. I'm sure The Cat will agree with you.
In my experience, people are for the most part subtly prejudice when it comes to lots of things. The meme that "Everyone's a little racist" is something I've said and, though there are likely exceptions, believe to be true if you extrapolate it to "Everyone's a little something-ist."
We're self centered creatures. It doesn't make it okay. But when it's subtle and not directly harmful, I don't think it's worth getting upset.
I don't really get it either, but my best guess is that it's the guy trying to call Burger- King-sans-Whopper gay.
Calling a guy "girly" is still an insult. Hell, calling a girl "girly" is sometimes taken as insulting. If someone is subordinate they are the "bitch." Weakness or cowardice is being a "pussy." Women are still considered to default to weakness and submission. That's how the feminine is defined. unfortunately.
I remember an instance where I was looking at a piece of artwork that I didn't care for(it looked like a 10-year old designed it), and I said "wow, that's gay" in the company of a good friend who was, in fact, gay. I don't know if he took offense at it, he had a habit of being unpredictable with being offended.
But, I've never used that word to describe something negative since then.
Subtle sexism is easy to dismiss, but difficult to recognize in yourself if you don't care.
...wow.
What? I'm pretty sure a lot of women would feel insulted if you were to call them manly.
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Well, it bothers me because I think it might still be very harmful. It represents something so thoroughly ingrained in our culture that it's not just jokes and jabs.
Though at the sametime, A&W has the burger family with Grandpa, Papa, Mama, Teen, Baby burgers (in order of amount of meat) and not many people seem to complain about it.
Maybe its one of the culturaly accepted stereotypes of men like more meat than females. Doesnt make it right, but its not exactly offensive, except to the women that pride themselves on enjoying a good steak, or the men who are vegans etc.
Also, we get those exact same "whopperfreakout.com" commercials up here in Canada.
MWO: Adamski
Oh shit, Chess is sexist!
People are experts in certain fields. I happen to be an expert in the purchasing and consumption of burgers.
Directly labelling someone the opposite gender is generally insulting, yes, and that's stupid too, although that's a different issue
However the other words and many other words/phrases are still an issue.
Hell no, the Queen is the most powerful piece on the board, and the King is an old cripple that can only move one square at a time.
EDIT: What Evil said.
In chess, the king is more valuable, but the queen is more powerful.
That is pretty much the reverse of the standard sexist hierarchy.
I hate those stupid commercials, but they're not nearly as bad as anything featuring that creepy BK mascot.
you can't take sexism out of language. Language will follow culture.
https://medium.com/@alascii
implied is the idea that a Queen, a royal position held by a woman, is thus inferior somehow to the King, a male royal.
what isn't clear is if this particular ad campaign by Burger King are actual candid clips or if they are all scripted actors. i suppose it doesn't matter; Burger King chose to use that clip in an ad. i don't think it's subtle at all. maybe the ad writers thought it would be witty commentary to include that clip.
it's similar to the Milwaukee's Best Light beer commercials, where they take a group of rednecks, have one of them acting in a non-masculine fashion, and drop a giant beer can on that guy as "punishment" for not manning up. it's incredibly stupid.
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Basically, that says that women are dispensible.
i wasn't suggesting taking sexism out of language, i was simply suggesting that language flags our sexism pretty clearly, and shows that it's still there going strong
trying to take sexism out of language results in things like "womyn," which I have no problem with per se, but which isn't a very effective gesture.
Seriously? The culture stereotypes of hamburger sizes? There's not enough bandwidth in the country to convey the amount of :roll:.
Yeah but you can't deny that the King is the weakest piece in the game. :P
Oh I agree, but one could then liken the chess board to the kitchen. King just kinda wanders around slowly, while the Queen does all the work.
My uncle used to throw empty beer cans at me because of that commercial.
cultural stereotype of man ordering the steak and the woman ordering the salad, are you saying that it isnt a stereotype?
Or am I misunderstanding that you dont think the stereotype is a culture based one but a gender based one?
Or what, because your one liner is leaving alot up to the imagination.
MWO: Adamski
Language can also reinforce culture, if I read my Chomsky right.
So it taps into cultural stereotypes of masculinity and feminity -- one being hunter-gatherer tough and all that shit, the other being soft and not as strong or whatever -- but I don't really find it too offensive. There's lots of humor that works or plays on gender stereotypes and gender roles, and while little of it would be described as forward thinking or progressive, I generally don't personally find it too terribly harmful.
If I was in charge of the company, would I make the ad? No, I wouldn't, but I'm not really going to get all huffy just because someone else did. That's more or less my attitude toward it.
And he would starve without her.
I think we're agreeing here. Haha.
in everyday language when does queen ever refer to a woman?
https://medium.com/@alascii
Yeah, see, exactly this. When the language we use to insult people is particularly feminine, what does that say about the way we think of women? Is it representative of a collective cultural disdain, or what?
If anything, I think just having a female science teacher standing in front of the classroom is infinitely more effective than any lecture any other science teacher could give on the subject. Make sure those girls feel like they're included in the damn subject!
They may not mean to, but they do.
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This is exactly what I'm talking about. From the mouths of babes/idiots.
I'm not going to call BK or anything and get all pissy about it. What I'm saying is that I think this ad made me think of those jokes, and those jokes seem to be a symptom of a larger illness
The problem is that a lot of them never get told, "Hey, maybe hearing shit like that really bothers other people". I mean yeah a lot of people grow up and get liberalism (the secular equivalent of finding Jeebus?) and knock that stuff off, but a lot more don't.
Plus when that's the constant background noise in the classroom, it gets ingrained in the female (or gay) students' heads that, you know, maybe they just AREN'T as good as the boys are, and maybe Mrs. Grace is just an aberration of the normal female type, like maybe she's a huge raging dyke or something. I think it would depend on how bad and how widespread it gets, but I think at some point the teacher has to step in or else you're no longer creating that safe classroom for everyone to learn in that is supposed to be basically at the core of your profession.
Yet oddly gays are hated even when they are perfectly masculine (EDIT: aside, I suppose, from not having sex with women if that's considered a virtue of masculinity), so obviously there's more at play there.
Anyway, I'd say it was less referring to homosexuals, and more to women (king vs. queen). Probably either in reference to the popular notion that women would eat less meat or smaller burgers, or that women are on average simply smaller (physically) than men. Depending how you slice it, it can be as offensive or inoffensive as you please. Which is why I probably wouldn't have gone with it...then again, if people are talking about it but don't care enough to picket them then I guess as an advertisement it was successful anyway.