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(solved) Should I give him another chance?
endlesswaltz
Registered User regular
Registered User regular
This will probably be VERY long, so I apologize in advance. I turn 26 in March, he turns 25 in April.
I ran into an old highschool/college friend of mine near the end of last summer whom I hadn't seen in +4 years. As we began to hang out alone together (for the first time, because we were in this group of friends but I cut off/lost contact with them all), we developed feelings for each other and decided to give "us" a try. I had just ended a long distance relationship with someone I viewed as the love of my life and his relationship of +5 years had ended a bit before too. Because of this reason, we tried to take things slowly, at first just casually dating each other for a few weeks before finally agreeing to be exclusive. I wanted to make sure we weren't rebounds and he wanted to be with me because he liked me a lot. That was early September.
Ever since we've been very happy together, despite the little disagreements every couple has sometimes. We've gotten very close and our feelings have gotten strong, enough label our feelings 'love'. (and we made sure we meant it.) He has always been very good to me, caring and kind and fun and intelligent. He is almost a perfect boyfriend one could hope.
About a week ago I let him play GuildWars on my computer while I was getting ready to head out. I got home later that night and checked my email, and didn't realize I was looking at his email inbox until I saw none of the emails were mine. I swear that I didn't know what was going on and realizing that it was his, I was about to log out. Then the email titles and gmail snippets grabbed my attention. There were literally +50 emails of questionable nature. Most of them were replies to Craigslist women looking for men. 'Hi. I'm "name". Your ad caught my attention and I'd love to get to know you. I'm 24, I live in "city" and I work for "company."' etc. etc. Most of these women are just looking for sex partners, because he mentions how he understands it's just a NSA or hookup and one woman's ad he replied to even had a husband. He tells them when he gets off work and offers his place to host in those emails. In addition, I found out that he's a paid premium member of various +4 sex partner searching websites and exchanged messages that describe sex with at least two women from those sites.
What infuriates me the most are two things. One, that he looking for sex partners. It's not that I'm holding out on him till we get married or something. (Another words, yes we do sleep together) It's one thing to sign up for eharmony or match.com, and another to pay to be a member of sex partner sites, you know? The second part is that he gives out his truthful legitimate information to all of those. His accounts are made of his real last name and his birth year, he gives out ALL the accurate information on himself to all those women. Except, he says he's single and he's looking for some fun, which is not true because I've had the Thanksgiving dinner with his family and everything.
I printed out all the emails (I know I haven't seen all because gmail automatically deletes trashcan after 30 days) and confronted him in person. He said he was sorry, and that he had lost who he was as a person and that he would never do those again, and that he would spend his life trying to make it up to me.
Although I have broken up with him over this, we've been discussing/fighting about this issue every day either in person or over the phone. Every time we talk about this for a prolonged period of time he cries and he apologized to me countless times. I forgave him but I told him that we'd need to start over from the beginning because the person I knew and was with wasn't the one who committed these acts. You see, he's been doing all those as long as we've been dating. I feel utterly deceived and betrayed, because I feel like I made sure I completely left the person I had loved the most in my life for him because I trusted him more. I feel like he wouldn't/shouldn't have pursued me to date him if he wanted to go out and have fun with many other women. I feel like if he cared about me he wouldn't have done those horrible things, especially not that many times spanning that long period of time. He tells me nothing ever went beyond email or messages, but how can I trust him? I never detected or suspected anything and I'm a very observant person, not to mention that I've had an ex boyfriend cheat on me so I really look out for signs for that. Other than this he has been absolutely wonderful but good god, how can I ever trust him? We'd spend time together trying to salvage things and all of sudden I'd panic, afraid that I might not know whether he's sending more emails to other women when he goes home because I never knew and if it happened again I wouldn't know.
I know this is the longest vent you've seen in a while but most of all, I want to ask you guys if a person can do such things that many times for that long period of time and still change. I want to know if one can change completely and never do those things again. Is that a likely possibility according to his responses and actions on how much he cares about me? I honestly hope so but it hurts a lot and I bought into that before when he was donig all those things.. How can I be sure if I'm not making the same mistake this time again? How can he do this to me if he loved me as he says and acts as if he does? I love my boyfriend but I don't want to give him a chance to mock/use/deceive/betray me again. Is there anything I should watch out for to make sure I notice it if it happens again? Are there ways to deal with what I'm feeling? I'm having a very difficult time because I don't really know how to resolve these feelings and I'm tired of crying and discussing this issue with him.
I ran into an old highschool/college friend of mine near the end of last summer whom I hadn't seen in +4 years. As we began to hang out alone together (for the first time, because we were in this group of friends but I cut off/lost contact with them all), we developed feelings for each other and decided to give "us" a try. I had just ended a long distance relationship with someone I viewed as the love of my life and his relationship of +5 years had ended a bit before too. Because of this reason, we tried to take things slowly, at first just casually dating each other for a few weeks before finally agreeing to be exclusive. I wanted to make sure we weren't rebounds and he wanted to be with me because he liked me a lot. That was early September.
Ever since we've been very happy together, despite the little disagreements every couple has sometimes. We've gotten very close and our feelings have gotten strong, enough label our feelings 'love'. (and we made sure we meant it.) He has always been very good to me, caring and kind and fun and intelligent. He is almost a perfect boyfriend one could hope.
About a week ago I let him play GuildWars on my computer while I was getting ready to head out. I got home later that night and checked my email, and didn't realize I was looking at his email inbox until I saw none of the emails were mine. I swear that I didn't know what was going on and realizing that it was his, I was about to log out. Then the email titles and gmail snippets grabbed my attention. There were literally +50 emails of questionable nature. Most of them were replies to Craigslist women looking for men. 'Hi. I'm "name". Your ad caught my attention and I'd love to get to know you. I'm 24, I live in "city" and I work for "company."' etc. etc. Most of these women are just looking for sex partners, because he mentions how he understands it's just a NSA or hookup and one woman's ad he replied to even had a husband. He tells them when he gets off work and offers his place to host in those emails. In addition, I found out that he's a paid premium member of various +4 sex partner searching websites and exchanged messages that describe sex with at least two women from those sites.
What infuriates me the most are two things. One, that he looking for sex partners. It's not that I'm holding out on him till we get married or something. (Another words, yes we do sleep together) It's one thing to sign up for eharmony or match.com, and another to pay to be a member of sex partner sites, you know? The second part is that he gives out his truthful legitimate information to all of those. His accounts are made of his real last name and his birth year, he gives out ALL the accurate information on himself to all those women. Except, he says he's single and he's looking for some fun, which is not true because I've had the Thanksgiving dinner with his family and everything.
I printed out all the emails (I know I haven't seen all because gmail automatically deletes trashcan after 30 days) and confronted him in person. He said he was sorry, and that he had lost who he was as a person and that he would never do those again, and that he would spend his life trying to make it up to me.
Although I have broken up with him over this, we've been discussing/fighting about this issue every day either in person or over the phone. Every time we talk about this for a prolonged period of time he cries and he apologized to me countless times. I forgave him but I told him that we'd need to start over from the beginning because the person I knew and was with wasn't the one who committed these acts. You see, he's been doing all those as long as we've been dating. I feel utterly deceived and betrayed, because I feel like I made sure I completely left the person I had loved the most in my life for him because I trusted him more. I feel like he wouldn't/shouldn't have pursued me to date him if he wanted to go out and have fun with many other women. I feel like if he cared about me he wouldn't have done those horrible things, especially not that many times spanning that long period of time. He tells me nothing ever went beyond email or messages, but how can I trust him? I never detected or suspected anything and I'm a very observant person, not to mention that I've had an ex boyfriend cheat on me so I really look out for signs for that. Other than this he has been absolutely wonderful but good god, how can I ever trust him? We'd spend time together trying to salvage things and all of sudden I'd panic, afraid that I might not know whether he's sending more emails to other women when he goes home because I never knew and if it happened again I wouldn't know.
I know this is the longest vent you've seen in a while but most of all, I want to ask you guys if a person can do such things that many times for that long period of time and still change. I want to know if one can change completely and never do those things again. Is that a likely possibility according to his responses and actions on how much he cares about me? I honestly hope so but it hurts a lot and I bought into that before when he was donig all those things.. How can I be sure if I'm not making the same mistake this time again? How can he do this to me if he loved me as he says and acts as if he does? I love my boyfriend but I don't want to give him a chance to mock/use/deceive/betray me again. Is there anything I should watch out for to make sure I notice it if it happens again? Are there ways to deal with what I'm feeling? I'm having a very difficult time because I don't really know how to resolve these feelings and I'm tired of crying and discussing this issue with him.
endlesswaltz on
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I say leave him. Leave him and don't look back. Once a cheater, always a cheater, and this guy seems to have some serious, serious problems. I would say that he needs professional help.
You do not want to be with a person like this. Especially because you may never be able to bring yourself to trust him again.
I don't have much to add, but I agree completely with AbsoluteZero..
If this was before he met you and he just had neglected to block/delete his account, then you should give him a chance. Maybe he was just trying to explore or find something new. After a long relationship and being a good guy, putting up with a lot of crap, sometimes you just want to go out and see what you've been missing and just have a good time with no strings attached. Especially if you were cheated on. It also really helps to boost your ego.
Some people indulge in a secret fantasy life and will never change, they just become better at hiding it. Some people use these sites to find something "better" than what they have right now, but they aren't willing to let go of what they have until they get what they want.
It's up to you, but what are you willing to put up with? What are your standards? E Harmony and Sex Dating sites seem like the same thing to me if it's while you were together. Is it just that they were sex sites?
2) IMO he doesn't deserve another chance. This wasn't a single "oops" slipup or drunken encounter at a reunion, he was going out of his way to persue other people the entire time you two were together.
edit: 3) I'm sorry
stout's Amazon Wishlist | my lastFM
We'd spend time together trying to salvage things and all of sudden I'd panic, afraid that I might not know whether he's sending more emails to other women when he goes home because I never knew and if it happened again I wouldn't know.
I don't know why you'd want to be with someone that makes you feel like this.
I do firmly believe that people can change. I do believe one can change so strongly as to never do something like this again. But I don't think going back to him will cause that change; quite the opposite, in fact.
I'm sorry this is going to be difficult, but you will feel better if you let him go completely and cleanly. You will regret it otherwise. Hell, you've already forgiven him. That's more than he could ask for, and is a good stepping-stone for leaving this without a gaping scar in your heart.
Yeah, do that
There was a forumer who got an STD from his then fiancee because she was cheating around on him. IIRC it was a similar situation that led to him finding out she was cheating on him.
Waltz, I don't think you'll ever be able to trust this guy again. Even if he does change, I think you'll always be wondering. Cut off contact for a while. Its probably the only way to let a relationship die.
Don't give that guy another chance, seriously, guys have been dumped for far far far less
Your ex bf is a serial perv who fucked promiscuous ladies from the internet WHILE you were in a relationship.
I mean it, there is just no way he can make up for that, please delete his phone number, email adress, forget about him, etc. and get tested for STDs.
Did you check the dates on the emails to make sure he was doing this WHILE seeing you?
Also, do you know for sure that he has had sex with those women? I know a few people who spend time on craigslist and shit when they are bored just to screw around. One of my female friends actually arranges dates and doesn't go, then laughs at the hateful txt messages she gets.
bottom line: he may not be actually looking for sex partners, and he may not have actually cheated on you (unless you consider being listed in dating sites as single as cheating, which is arguable in my opinion).
If he is such a wonderful guy as you say, maybe he deserves another chance. Hell, everyone fucks up, and everyone deserves a chance to make up for it. Like you said, maybe start over. See how things go.
Check yourself out too btw - Craigslist is fraught with nasty skanks.
- All I know for sure is that he's emailed and messaged various women on internet (paid sex partner sites, Craigslist, newspaper) trying to arrange meetings with them, with the apparent intention of either sex or going on dates.
- The emails/messages I've seen range from the end of October to end of December, which are how long the Gmail trash saves its deleted mails to when I discovered them.
- I view the above as cheating. When I'm in a romantic relationship with someone I devote my mind, heart, and body to only to that person and I expect the exact same thing in return.
- He tells me nothing's ever gone farther than email/messages. No phone call, no meeting with anyone.
- We've always had protected sex. (I don't ever want STDs or children..)
- I don't think I need a self esteem boost.. At least not significant enough to affect this matter. I've been asked out by many guys and he knows there were/are other guys interested in me.
You can probably tell that I'm confused as hell... He has been absolutely wonderful to me, supporting me about school and everything and treating me right. That's why I can't really understand why or how. Thank you again PA H/A and if you can give me more advice, I'd really appreciate them.
Is he viewing sex with you as unsatisfactory? Not that that's an excuse.
He has been treating you wonderfully, yet at the same time he's pursuing other women sexually?
Something is off here.
edit: regardless, I stand by what I said: if he is such a wonderful guy, maybe he deserves a second chance, especially since he knows he made a mistake, has apologized, and has promised to make up for it. my personal opinion.
Wether you've had protected sex or not, still get checked out. It is possible to still contract an STD, wether from a condom breaking or an infected area outside of the condom, or pubic hair or other fluid transfers.
You can't, that's one great big fat lie. Why would you pursue NSA/one night stand things on craiglist if you weren't going to follow them up? If you were just going to stick with emails there are plenty of other places he could go.
The guy is simply trying to cover his tracks, really really badly and is still lying to you.
Satans..... hints.....
Read my post above.
It's beside the point. The real issue is the loss of trust. Yes it is possible he didn't sleep with them, but because he betrayed her in such a way (regardless of whether or not he actually slept with anyone) it is impossible to trust that he is telling the truth now. Maybe he slept with them, maybe not. The point is that you can't trust what he says.
I'm the unsatisfied one, actually. I think I've only reached climax once. He says he doesn't know why he did those things, and that's not who he is. But his ex gf often refused to sleep with him (they'd only get to see each other on weekends, and when she spent the weekend over at his place they wouldn't have sex, which is just a bit odd to me, because we're almost at the prime of things...), making him feel rejected or something. And if I remember correctly he started those things before we began to date. Maybe he wanted to feel wanted or something. But you're right, it's not an excuse for what he's done to me.. He cries every time we speak of how much he's hurt me. I'm just so torn on what to do. My head says I should never speak to him but it's just so hard not to feel loved when he treats me so well and not return his love. God I'm sorry for rambling on and on in H/A too.
The whole making you feel bad about how torn up he is over constantly doing things that hurt you? Yeah, that's him being good at being dishonest. Maybe he's really not a terrible person, and he really doesn't mean to plan sexual encounters with other women behind your back, he just does it. The fact is though, he's gonna keep doing it. Unless you're happy with things being the way they are right now, you need to move on.
CUZ THERE'S SOMETHING IN THE MIDDLE AND IT'S GIVING ME A RASH
Personally, I tend to be a very forgiving person. But for me to let somebody like him back into my life, I'd need to know that they'd gotten a year or two of therapy and have identified what little mental bug caused them to sabotage the best relationship they ever had.
the "no true scotch man" fallacy.
Little known fact, some men like-a the porn. A lot. Maybe too much, even. Not all 'porn' is printed or broadband, sometimes it's a situation or type of involvement that does the trick.
Is it possible he's telling the truth? Quite likely - at least about those women, anyway. Some men like the chase more than they like the catching. And it's not just men who want to have thier cake and eat it too. It could very well be that without being in a situation where he is looking for a new fling, that's what he chooses to become involved with to get off - like role play, only all the players think they're real.
Often fantasy is just that, fantasy, and when one posesses a decent imagination, reality is almost always disappointing. It doesn't take too many turns at the wheel to learn what you like and don't like. It could be that he knows what he likes, and sticks with that, never proceeding to the catch, and always returning to the chase.
That being said, your porn (love fantasy) and his porn (sex fantasy) don't appear to match up, and may indeed be mutually exclusive. People can't change thier kinks any more than they can change thier eye color, so if his brand of playtime is grounds to walk away, then walk away and don't go back. After a certain point, people never really change, they just find different ways to rationalize and act out thier true identities and desires. The only thing I would caution against is if you were unsure of your own desires - but if you feel you are sure of what you absolutely not interested in, you probably never will be, and I would go with that.
It's alright, rambling is what H/A is for.
In the end, regardless of what we say here, you'll do what you decide to be best. Based on my experience, I would say trust your instincts, not your logic.
Good luck.
One, I would believe the guy. He got caught, you essentially dumped him, he has nothing to lose. So yes, I would completely believe that he is simply emailing people and living out the fantasy of being a "player." it's a sexual fantasy, and as many people know, sexual fantasies do not have to necessarily involve sex. It sounds like a kink, and while it could attract some unwanted attention since he's using his real name and information (for instance, could involve people coming over to confront him for something), it's likely mostly harmless as it is. The fact that he's talking to people who seem solely interested in sex means he's not looking for a new full-on relationship and that he was reasonably happy.
Two, anyone with a kink like that owes it to themselves to own up and tell the person they're in a relationship with, once it gets serious. Especially something like this, that involves other people. So yes, you were right in dumping him, and feel free to put your foot down. It's not your problem, and you're right to react as you did. You feel that he betrayed your trust, and therefore he should suffer the consequences that you feel are appropriate. It's your life, after all. It might be a bit brash, but you're not in the wrong in any way.
You're a new couple, in the grand scheme of things you might not know a whole lot about this guy. His impatience to be with you, driven by love, may have caused him to make lifestyle changes sooner than his sexuality could catch up. Fulfilling your kinks is addictive.
That might be totally false - it's also possible he's a lying bastard who cares nothing for you. You'll have to use your judgement on that. I think it's important to know whether this was also going on long before he met you.
Basically I'd just be hesitant to take the kind of advice which is like 'OMG something to do with sex with someone else? BASTARD DUMP HIM'. If I took that sort of advice I wouldn't be with the most amazing person in my life.
I reckon sliver is onto something. Now that you know that you could probably monitor what he is doing and see what he is lieing about.
Edit: I see LRG beat me to this
Its already abundantly clear that he's a deceptive liar and that he's good at it. I totally agree with Pheezer and VC on this one, but quoting and liming it again would probably be obnoxious.
IMO let him go. Maybe he can grow as a person for a while without you and realise that what he had with you was much better then whatever thrill he may get from meeting up with internet sex buddies.
I don't agree with the "once a cheater" thing and I think everyone is allowed to make mistakes. But it sounds like he needs some "me" time to figure out what he's really looking for.
grammar edit:
Yeah because that will totally result in something other than unnecessarily prolonged, unnecessary heartache.
Even if this was all some elaborate fantasy play on his part, it's still something involving him with other people... not something that should be hidden from a potential partner in life.
Also, it was mentioned he was using paid sites, not just craigslist, which means he was doing more than just goofing on a free site to get some kicks. So I don't think there is ever any way you can be certain to trust this guy again, especially since you had no idea about it in the first place.
If you have to have him on lockdown 24/7 to ensure he's not chatting/mailing/visiting some chick looking to get some action from a web site... It's not going to be a very long lasting or healthy relationship.
It's not like you only have suspicions and are snooping around for awhile to confirm/deny it. It would be a case of you know he did soemthing, just not how much, and could never be certain he won't do it again.
Maybe he will change, but as someone else stated, that should be for the next girl to find out.
I didn't cave in but honestly I'm in a wreck and I don't know how long I can do it. I miss everything about him very much. I'm cutting off all contact with him and I really hope I can keep on doing that. I'm just shaken, I suppose. Thank you PA H/A. Thank you. I guess a very sad celebration is in order. I'll need to find a good place to drink or something.
Right now hes likely desperate, since his secret is out of the bag, and he's probably frantically trying to avoid dealing with the consequences of his actions, thus the claims of being finished with it, and of making it up to you for the rest of his life.
Stay strong, keep the contact cut as much as possible. Just remember how long he deceived you when he makes the promises of faithfulness.
Lean on your friends and family for support if there are people you're comfortable doing that with.