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The American Presidency: Obama does not believe in prevent defense

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    AstraphobiaAstraphobia Lightning Bolt! Lightning Bolt! Root! Sleep! Death!Registered User regular
    edited October 2008
    oldmanken wrote: »
    Seriously, this Joe the Plumber crap has to stop. CNN is making mention of him every 10 minutes or so... it's ridiculous.
    zeke.jpg

    :winky:

    I hope someone gets this reference.

    Its something new to talk about in a relatively uneventful newscycle. You can only talk about the Dow crashing so many times before it doesn't have that same sparkle.

    Talking about this random douche is a net win for McCain, so his surrotards will push it for as long as the media allows it.

    Astraphobia on
  • Options
    Robos A Go GoRobos A Go Go Registered User regular
    edited October 2008
    PantsB wrote: »
    Ghandi 2 wrote: »
    Whether or not it is a person has nothing to do with you being raped GRAAAAAAAAAAAAAAHHHHH!

    I'm sorry for her, and if you want to put more funding in programs for rape victims, go ahead. But things like that frame the debate in dishonest terms.

    A super majority of people the abortion issue as a simple debate between whether or not a fetus is a person.

    What the fuck are you trying to say?

    In any case, "abortion should be legal" and "abortion should be legal in cases of rape and incest" and far more popular than "abortion shouldn't be legal at all", so if anything the commercial speaks to the super-majority rather than the slim number who simply think abortion is about killing babies.

    Robos A Go Go on
  • Options
    Ghandi 2Ghandi 2 Registered User regular
    edited October 2008
    Robos, if that is not it, what is it? If you think the fetus is a human being, what other options can you support?
    Jokerman wrote: »
    Yeah, but he did perserve the union and free an entire race of people.

    I think we can let the other stuff slide.
    Yeah, I definately wouldn't call him a terrible president.

    Ghandi 2 on
  • Options
    DaedalusDaedalus Registered User regular
    edited October 2008
    Scalfin wrote: »
    SyphonBrue wrote: »
    Ghandi 2 wrote: »
    geckahn wrote: »
    Powerful:

    [youtubeURL="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5IS0PJdE0Cs"]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5IS0PJdE0Cs[/URL]

    Played on DC area cable channels post debate apparently.

    Digg it
    Whether or not it is a person has nothing to do with you being raped GRAAAAAAAAAAAAAAHHHHH!

    I'm sorry for her, and if you want to put more funding in programs for rape victims, go ahead. But things like that frame the debate in dishonest terms.

    wtf

    I'm pretty sure the issue is whether or not she's a person.

    What G2 is trying to say is that forcing rape victims to give birth to the rapist's children is entirely logically consistent with the right-wing stance on abortion.

    What this says about the right-wing stance on abortion is left as an exercise to the reader.

    Daedalus on
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    AstraphobiaAstraphobia Lightning Bolt! Lightning Bolt! Root! Sleep! Death!Registered User regular
    edited October 2008
    Ghandi 2 wrote: »
    Robos, if that is not it, what is it? If you think the fetus is a human being, what other options can you support?
    Jokerman wrote: »
    Yeah, but he did perserve the union and free an entire race of people.

    I think we can let the other stuff slide.
    Yeah, I definately wouldn't call him a terrible president.

    ABORTION ALERT!

    Seriously.. discuss the merits of each candidate's views, not some freewheeling-going-nowhere abortion debate.

    And Lincoln was the awesomest president of all time, 'cause if he wasn't, my hometown would have no economy to speak of.

    Astraphobia on
  • Options
    PantsBPantsB Fake Thomas Jefferson Registered User regular
    edited October 2008
    PantsB wrote: »
    Ghandi 2 wrote: »
    Whether or not it is a person has nothing to do with you being raped GRAAAAAAAAAAAAAAHHHHH!

    I'm sorry for her, and if you want to put more funding in programs for rape victims, go ahead. But things like that frame the debate in dishonest terms.

    A super majority of people the abortion issue as a simple debate between whether or not a fetus is a person.

    What the fuck are you trying to say?

    In any case, "abortion should be legal" and "abortion should be legal in cases of rape and incest" and far more popular than "abortion shouldn't be legal at all", so if anything the commercial speaks to the super-majority rather than the slim number who simply think abortion is about killing babies.

    A vast majority of people think the abortion issue is more than a simple debate between whether or not a fetus is a person. Just about everyone that isn't extreme "pro-life" in fact.

    PantsB on
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    Andrew_JayAndrew_Jay Registered User regular
    edited October 2008
    Was it just me, or did McCain blink his eyes far more than any normal person should be blinking? He was blinking up a storm the whole debate. It was crazy.

    Andrew_Jay on
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    AngelHedgieAngelHedgie Registered User regular
    edited October 2008
    Ghandi 2 wrote: »
    geckahn wrote: »
    Powerful:

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5IS0PJdE0Cs

    Played on DC area cable channels post debate apparently.

    Digg it
    Whether or not it is a person has nothing to do with you being raped GRAAAAAAAAAAAAAAHHHHH!

    I'm sorry for her, and if you want to put more funding in programs for rape victims, go ahead. But things like that frame the debate in dishonest terms.

    What terms would that be? That she has the right to her personal sovereignty? That she shouldn't be forced to carry a child (and handle all the ensuing problems) resulting from a rape?

    The fact is that YOUR framing is bullshit.

    AngelHedgie on
    XBL: Nox Aeternum / PSN: NoxAeternum / NN:NoxAeternum / Steam: noxaeternum
  • Options
    Ghandi 2Ghandi 2 Registered User regular
    edited October 2008
    PantsB wrote: »
    A vast majority of people think the abortion issue is more than a simple debate between whether or not a fetus is a person. Just about everyone that isn't extreme "pro-life" in fact.
    Before Elki slams us for being off-topic: what is it? I'm serious here, I don't know what you're talking about.

    Ghandi 2 on
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    AstraphobiaAstraphobia Lightning Bolt! Lightning Bolt! Root! Sleep! Death!Registered User regular
    edited October 2008
    PantsB wrote: »
    PantsB wrote: »
    Ghandi 2 wrote: »
    Whether or not it is a person has nothing to do with you being raped GRAAAAAAAAAAAAAAHHHHH!

    I'm sorry for her, and if you want to put more funding in programs for rape victims, go ahead. But things like that frame the debate in dishonest terms.

    A super majority of people the abortion issue as a simple debate between whether or not a fetus is a person.

    What the fuck are you trying to say?

    In any case, "abortion should be legal" and "abortion should be legal in cases of rape and incest" and far more popular than "abortion shouldn't be legal at all", so if anything the commercial speaks to the super-majority rather than the slim number who simply think abortion is about killing babies.

    A vast majority of people think the abortion issue is more than a simple debate between whether or not a fetus is a person. Just about everyone that isn't extreme "pro-life" in fact.

    I would venture to guess a good chunk of pro-lifers out there still support the war in Iraq, which is killing fully-grown humans.

    But I guess if they're M00-slim they're going to HeathenHell, so who gives a shit, amirite?

    Astraphobia on
  • Options
    enlightenedbumenlightenedbum Registered User regular
    edited October 2008
    Andrew_Jay wrote: »
    Was it just me, or did McCain blink his eyes far more than any normal person should be blinking? He was blinking up a storm the whole debate. It was crazy.

    Because he was lying. A lot.

    enlightenedbum on
    Self-righteousness is incompatible with coalition building.
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    nexuscrawlernexuscrawler Registered User regular
    edited October 2008
    Andrew_Jay wrote: »
    Was it just me, or did McCain blink his eyes far more than any normal person should be blinking? He was blinking up a storm the whole debate. It was crazy.

    He was really nervous probably

    nexuscrawler on
  • Options
    AstraphobiaAstraphobia Lightning Bolt! Lightning Bolt! Root! Sleep! Death!Registered User regular
    edited October 2008
    Andrew_Jay wrote: »
    Was it just me, or did McCain blink his eyes far more than any normal person should be blinking? He was blinking up a storm the whole debate. It was crazy.

    I think the blink/smirk count was OVER 3,000 from last night.

    Astraphobia on
  • Options
    Ghandi 2Ghandi 2 Registered User regular
    edited October 2008
    Andrew_Jay wrote: »
    Was it just me, or did McCain blink his eyes far more than any normal person should be blinking? He was blinking up a storm the whole debate. It was crazy.

    Because he was lying. A lot.
    He always does that. I don't know why.

    Ghandi 2 on
  • Options
    Robos A Go GoRobos A Go Go Registered User regular
    edited October 2008
    Ghandi 2 wrote: »
    Robos, if that is not it, what is it? If you think the fetus is a human being, what other options can you support?
    Jokerman wrote: »
    Yeah, but he did perserve the union and free an entire race of people.

    I think we can let the other stuff slide.
    Yeah, I definately wouldn't call him a terrible president.

    Erm, most people think a fetus isn't a human being, but nonetheless view conception as a sacred thing and abortion as a mildly to extremely abhorrent procedure that is a necessary evil in our society. A smaller group think abortion is no biggy, and finally the smallest group thinks a fetus is a human and that abortion should never be legal.

    As for what other options you can support if you view a fetus as a human, the fact is that the only things you CAN reasonably support is better sex ed, available contraception for everyone, a more concerted effort to prosecute sex offenders, pre-natal care for every expectant mother, more support for parents who can barely afford to raise children, if at all, and finally making adoption a more attractive choice.

    Attempting to make abortion illegal is, frankly, a dead end. It's never going to happen, and if it did it'd just result in a fucking horror show as women and girls try anything and everything they can in lieu of going to a qualified doctor. Even the best case scenario (for pro-lifers) where every potential abortion instead results in a pregnancy carried to term leads to tens of millions of babies with nobody to care for them.

    Really, the best way to prevent an abortion is to prevent a pregnancy.

    Robos A Go Go on
  • Options
    AngelHedgieAngelHedgie Registered User regular
    edited October 2008
    Ghandi 2 wrote: »
    PantsB wrote: »
    A vast majority of people think the abortion issue is more than a simple debate between whether or not a fetus is a person. Just about everyone that isn't extreme "pro-life" in fact.
    Before Elki slams us for being off-topic: what is it? I'm serious here, I don't know what you're talking about.

    It's about the position of women in society. It's about "punishing sluts". It's about not treating women as equals. McCain's most disturbing and disgusting line of the night was when he outright said that the term "health of the mother" was a dodge by pro-choice advocates.

    Here's a quick primer.

    AngelHedgie on
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    Armored GorillaArmored Gorilla Registered User regular
    edited October 2008
    Ghandi 2 wrote: »
    Andrew_Jay wrote: »
    Was it just me, or did McCain blink his eyes far more than any normal person should be blinking? He was blinking up a storm the whole debate. It was crazy.

    Because he was lying. A lot.
    He always does that. I don't know why.

    Because he lies. A lot.

    Armored Gorilla on
    "I'm a mad god. The Mad God, actually. It's a family title. Gets passed down from me to myself every few thousand years."
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    wwtMaskwwtMask Registered User regular
    edited October 2008
    Somebody call Colin Powell and tell him to get with the endorsing already.

    wwtMask on
    When he dies, I hope they write "Worst Affirmative Action Hire, EVER" on his grave. His corpse should be trolled.
    Twitter - @liberaltruths | Google+ - http://gplus.to/wwtMask | Occupy Tallahassee
  • Options
    durandal4532durandal4532 Registered User regular
    edited October 2008
    Ghandi 2 wrote: »
    Robos, if that is not it, what is it? If you think the fetus is a human being, what other options can you support?

    Abortion.

    Don't act like "but it's a human being!" is the end-all for why we shouldn't kill something. We kill human beings all the fucking time.

    durandal4532 on
    Take a moment to donate what you can to Critical Resistance and Black Lives Matter.
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    DaedalusDaedalus Registered User regular
    edited October 2008
    Basically, if the fetus counts as a person then it's not the fetus's fault that its father is a rapist, and if the fetus doesn't count as a person then why should abortion be limited to cases of rape? The compromise of "abortion only in the case of rape/incest/whatever other extenuating circumstance" is a compromise between two different, internally consistent positions, where the compromise itself makes no logical sense.

    But that's how most compromises work.

    Daedalus on
  • Options
    ScalfinScalfin __BANNED USERS regular
    edited October 2008
    PantsB wrote: »
    PantsB wrote: »
    Ghandi 2 wrote: »
    Whether or not it is a person has nothing to do with you being raped GRAAAAAAAAAAAAAAHHHHH!

    I'm sorry for her, and if you want to put more funding in programs for rape victims, go ahead. But things like that frame the debate in dishonest terms.

    A super majority of people the abortion issue as a simple debate between whether or not a fetus is a person.

    What the fuck are you trying to say?

    In any case, "abortion should be legal" and "abortion should be legal in cases of rape and incest" and far more popular than "abortion shouldn't be legal at all", so if anything the commercial speaks to the super-majority rather than the slim number who simply think abortion is about killing babies.

    A vast majority of people think the abortion issue is more than a simple debate between whether or not a fetus is a person. Just about everyone that isn't extreme "pro-life" in fact.

    Of course, it is the best way to screw with those who oppose abortion, especially the ones who think that birth control and condoms are abortion, as you can insist that abstinence is abortion and life starts when the egg is formed.

    Scalfin on
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    PantsBPantsB Fake Thomas Jefferson Registered User regular
    edited October 2008
    Ghandi 2 wrote: »
    Andrew_Jay wrote: »
    Was it just me, or did McCain blink his eyes far more than any normal person should be blinking? He was blinking up a storm the whole debate. It was crazy.

    Because he was lying. A lot.
    He always does that. I don't know why.

    Because he lies. A lot.

    McCain also "tongue juts" whenever he lays a big whopper. The Colbert report and 538 have both commented on it and it was in full effect last night.

    PantsB on
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    DaMoonRulzDaMoonRulz Mare ImbriumRegistered User regular
    edited October 2008
    I hope someone gets this reference.
    Do you have ruffled chips in a perimeter around your computer chair?

    DaMoonRulz on
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  • Options
    TofystedethTofystedeth Registered User regular
    edited October 2008
    Ghandi 2 wrote: »
    PantsB wrote: »
    A vast majority of people think the abortion issue is more than a simple debate between whether or not a fetus is a person. Just about everyone that isn't extreme "pro-life" in fact.
    Before Elki slams us for being off-topic: what is it? I'm serious here, I don't know what you're talking about.

    It's about the position of women in society. It's about "punishing sluts". It's about not treating women as equals. McCain's most disturbing and disgusting line of the night was when he outright said that the term "health of the mother" was a dodge by pro-choice advocates.

    Here's a quick primer.

    I was only able to catch the last few questions, and I don't remember the context, but it might have been that line, when they were doing a split view of Obama and McCain, and McCain said something fuckawful and Obama looked really really mad, and then he reached to his side, and I thought he was trying to find something to bludgeon McCain with, but it was just a glass of water. That was an excessively long sentence.

    Tofystedeth on
    steam_sig.png
  • Options
    ScalfinScalfin __BANNED USERS regular
    edited October 2008
    Andrew_Jay wrote: »
    Was it just me, or did McCain blink his eyes far more than any normal person should be blinking? He was blinking up a storm the whole debate. It was crazy.

    I think the blink/smirk count was OVER 9,000 from last night.

    Scalfin on
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
    The rest of you, I fucking hate you for the fact that I now have a blue dot on this god awful thread.
  • Options
    TachTach Registered User regular
    edited October 2008
    Daedalus wrote: »
    Basically, if the fetus counts as a person then it's not the fetus's fault that its father is a rapist, and if the fetus doesn't count as a person then why should abortion be limited to cases of rape? The compromise of "abortion only in the case of rape/incest/whatever other extenuating circumstance" is a compromise between two different, internally consistent positions, where the compromise itself makes no logical sense.

    But that's how most compromises work.
    I think it's been proven time and again that Pro-Lifers don't want to compromise.

    Tach on
  • Options
    necroSYSnecroSYS Registered User, ClubPA regular
    edited October 2008
    The media is amazingly retarded, but so are kos diarists today.

    Note to liberals: talking about a stupid plumber from Ohio is not talking about the economy which is a win for McCain. Christ.

    THANK YOU

    necroSYS on
  • Options
    DaedalusDaedalus Registered User regular
    edited October 2008
    Tach wrote: »
    Daedalus wrote: »
    Basically, if the fetus counts as a person then it's not the fetus's fault that its father is a rapist, and if the fetus doesn't count as a person then why should abortion be limited to cases of rape? The compromise of "abortion only in the case of rape/incest/whatever other extenuating circumstance" is a compromise between two different, internally consistent positions, where the compromise itself makes no logical sense.

    But that's how most compromises work.
    I think it's been proven time and again that Pro-Lifers don't want to compromise.

    On the other hand, people who think that abortion is okay sometimes are halfway converted to pro-choice.

    Daedalus on
  • Options
    SheepSheep Registered User, __BANNED USERS regular
    edited October 2008
    Preacher wrote: »
    kildy wrote: »
    Jesus, while powerful, I don't think I ever want to see that on TV, ever.

    I do, I want pro lifers to see the face of someone that their idiocy would destroy so they can feel better about themselves.

    I don't.

    I'm pro life. The only reason I generally support pro choice movements is because it's none of my business.

    Sheep on
  • Options
    PantsBPantsB Fake Thomas Jefferson Registered User regular
    edited October 2008
    Emergency Supreme Court appeal filed in Ohio voters case

    WASHINGTON (CNN) -- Ohio's secretary of state on Thursday filed an emergency appeal with the U.S. Supreme Court in an ongoing dispute over verifying the identities of the state's newly registered voters.

    The appeal, from Secretary of State Jennifer Brunner -- a Democrat -- and other election officials follows a Tuesday ruling from the 6th U.S. Circuit Court of Appeals in Cincinnati that sided with the state GOP.

    The ruling ordered Brunner to create a system by Friday to provide a list of newly registered voters whose Social Security numbers or driver's license numbers do not match their names.

    The state Republican Party contends there is widespread voter fraud in Ohio -- a crucial battleground state for the 2008 presidential election -- and that Brunner "turned off" its process for verifying voter registrations while allowing Ohioans to cast ballots on the same day they registered.
    ... [/quote]
    Don't need evidence of fraud to allege it.
    Sheep wrote: »
    Preacher wrote: »
    kildy wrote: »
    Jesus, while powerful, I don't think I ever want to see that on TV, ever.

    I do, I want pro lifers to see the face of someone that their idiocy would destroy so they can feel better about themselves.

    I don't.
    I'm pro life. The only reason I generally support pro choice movements is because it's none of my business.
    I'm pretty sure that the definition of pro-choice.

    PantsB on
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    HounHoun Registered User regular
    edited October 2008
    Sheep wrote: »
    Preacher wrote: »
    kildy wrote: »
    Jesus, while powerful, I don't think I ever want to see that on TV, ever.

    I do, I want pro lifers to see the face of someone that their idiocy would destroy so they can feel better about themselves.

    I don't.

    I'm pro life. The only reason I generally support pro choice movements is because it's none of my business.

    I think that would actually make you pro-choice. Pro-choice doesn't mean you'd get an abortion, it means you support the idea that each individual gets to decide for themselves, because it's no one else's business.

    Houn on
  • Options
    AstraphobiaAstraphobia Lightning Bolt! Lightning Bolt! Root! Sleep! Death!Registered User regular
    edited October 2008
    DaMoonRulz wrote: »
    I hope someone gets this reference.
    Do you have ruffled chips in a perimeter around your computer chair?

    Oh I most certainly do.

    So I get the fried chicken and watermelon.. but the Kool-Aid Man?:
    obama-bucks.jpg

    But hey! She supported Alan Keyes so she can't be racist, just fucking insane!

    :lol:

    Astraphobia on
  • Options
    SageinaRageSageinaRage Registered User regular
    edited October 2008
    Jokerman wrote: »
    I had a McCainobot on facebook say in clear terms that Abraham lincoln was a terrible president and the civil war was a clusterfuck (mostly because lincoln lacked "Executive experience")

    Now whenever he spews his lies and deceptions i always comment below him "For disclosure purposes, this man wishes he could still own slaves".

    Wow. You're a pretty terrible person.

    SageinaRage on
    sig.gif
  • Options
    Locust76Locust76 Registered User regular
    edited October 2008
    Andrew_Jay wrote: »
    Was it just me, or did McCain blink his eyes far more than any normal person should be blinking? He was blinking up a storm the whole debate. It was crazy.

    I think the blink/smirk count was OVER 3,000 from last night.

    ... I think.... I think you mean...
    OVER 9,000

    Locust76 on
  • Options
    Goose!Goose! That's me, honey Show me the way home, honeyRegistered User regular
    edited October 2008
    You guys ever see a presidential nominee's motorcade? Its the biggest greenhouse gas emitter I've ever seen.

    I've had better (TOTPs that is).


    No, actually, probably not.

    Goose! on
  • Options
    AstraphobiaAstraphobia Lightning Bolt! Lightning Bolt! Root! Sleep! Death!Registered User regular
    edited October 2008
    Locust76 wrote: »
    Andrew_Jay wrote: »
    Was it just me, or did McCain blink his eyes far more than any normal person should be blinking? He was blinking up a storm the whole debate. It was crazy.

    I think the blink/smirk count was OVER 3,000 from last night.

    ... I think.... I think you mean...
    OVER 9,000

    I was doing my best not to feed the meme directly. I figured someone else would do it for me. Vindication.

    8-)

    Astraphobia on
  • Options
    JokermanJokerman Everything EverywhereRegistered User regular
    edited October 2008
    I have something awesome to break up all the abortion-speak:
    t.gif

    Jokerman on
  • Options
    AngelHedgieAngelHedgie Registered User regular
    edited October 2008
    DaMoonRulz wrote: »
    I hope someone gets this reference.
    Do you have ruffled chips in a perimeter around your computer chair?

    Oh I most certainly do.

    So I get the fried chicken and watermelon.. but the Kool-Aid Man?:
    obama-bucks.jpg

    But hey! She supported Alan Keyes so she can't be racist, just fucking insane!

    :lol:

    Kool-Aid is a beverage traditionally associated with blacks (because it's inexpensive).

    AngelHedgie on
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  • Options
    OptimusZedOptimusZed Registered User regular
    edited October 2008
    Houn wrote: »
    Pro-choice doesn't mean you'd get an abortion, it means you support the idea that each individual gets to decide for themselves, because it's no one else's business.
    10 points for this guy.

    OptimusZed on
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    urahonkyurahonky Resident FF7R hater Registered User regular
    edited October 2008
    DaMoonRulz wrote: »
    I hope someone gets this reference.
    Do you have ruffled chips in a perimeter around your computer chair?

    Oh I most certainly do.

    So I get the fried chicken and watermelon.. but the Kool-Aid Man?:
    obama-bucks.jpg

    But hey! She supported Alan Keyes so she can't be racist, just fucking insane!

    :lol:

    Kool-Aid is a beverage traditionally associated with blacks (because it's inexpensive).

    And it's fucking delicious if you add a lot of sugar.

    urahonky on
This discussion has been closed.