It is typical to name all responsible parties in the suit.
Right. I'm trying to ascertain how much responsibility the police had in this instance.
Sentry on
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
wrote:
When I was a little kid, I always pretended I was the hero,' Skip said.
'Fuck yeah, me too. What little kid ever pretended to be part of the lynch-mob?'
I guess I should say that it is typical to name anyone reasonably conceivable as responsible. Otherwise it appears as if they're just going after deep pockets.
I guess I should say that it is typical to name anyone reasonably conceivable as responsible. Otherwise it appears as if they're just going after deep pockets.
I don't think many people are going to be thinking that here. Dude died in an atrocious manner.
It is typical to name all responsible parties in the suit.
Right. I'm trying to ascertain how much responsibility the police had in this instance.
Given the look of that crowd, from the pictures I saw, I find it hard to believe that every available unit was responding to a more dangerous situation.
However I don't think legal precedent is on their side, at least from my understanding. The police have very little responsibility to actually protect the populace, and are given incredibly wide latitude in making such decisions.
When someone dies as a result from a mob I'd think the mob of people is legally responsible not the store? Maybe both?
How do you charge a mob of people with murder though.
CCTV everywhere.
I don't know how I feel about the lawsuit. It won't stop BF sales or massive crowds of people who all want the same thing. I'm surprised their not suing whoever designed the doors as well...
When someone dies as a result from a mob I'd think the mob of people is legally responsible not the store? Maybe both?
/facepalm
Mainly because you said "legally" responsible, which even more so than moral responsibility falls pretty squarely on the store. You craft advertisements with the intent of drawing a large crowd, then fail to control that crowd, then somebody dies on your property due to the crowd that you intentionally gathered there?
It doesn't get much more liable than that.
I don't know how I feel about the lawsuit. It won't stop BF sales or massive crowds of people who all want the same thing.
I'd not be so sure. It's unlikely, but possible. What it will do is change the way store plan around such crowds. I guarantee that spending on security and safety for BF next year goes up an order of magnitude if this suit goes anywhere.
Yes but when you start shoving people isn't that a form of assault? Shoving enough people that it causes someone to die seems like a form of manslaughter in whateverith degree.
I'm not saying Wal-mart is innocent, just that these people really aren't innocent either.
bowen on
not a doctor, not a lawyer, examples I use may not be fully researched so don't take out of context plz, don't @ me
Yes but when you start shoving people isn't that a form of assault? Shoving enough people that it causes someone to die seems like a form of manslaughter in whateverith degree.
Have you read the thread? Like seriously?
We've discussed criminal charges and why they are tenuous at best here when it comes to assault and manslaughter.
Yes but when you start shoving people isn't that a form of assault? Shoving enough people that it causes someone to die seems like a form of manslaughter in whateverith degree.
I'm not saying Wal-mart is innocent, just that these people really aren't innocent either.
Yes but when you start shoving people isn't that a form of assault? Shoving enough people that it causes someone to die seems like a form of manslaughter in whateverith degree.
I'm not saying Wal-mart is innocent, just that these people really aren't innocent either.
It's very hard to establish any of the pushing because some people were being pushed themselves and others were creating pressure by breathing.
I don't know how I feel about the lawsuit. It won't stop BF sales or massive crowds of people who all want the same thing.
I'd not be so sure. It's unlikely, but possible. What it will do is change the way store plan around such crowds. I guarantee that spending on security and safety for BF next year goes up an order of magnitude if this suit goes anywhere.
If nothing else, it establishes precedent. If Walmart loses, then any store is guaranteed to lose any case in which something similar happens. Knowing that a death or serious injury in your store translates directly into $$$$$ lost will likely compel some of those actuaries to shift their numbers a bit.
ElJeffe on
I submitted an entry to Lego Ideas, and if 10,000 people support me, it'll be turned into an actual Lego set!If you'd like to see and support my submission, follow this link.
I don't know how I feel about the lawsuit. It won't stop BF sales or massive crowds of people who all want the same thing.
I'd not be so sure. It's unlikely, but possible. What it will do is change the way store plan around such crowds. I guarantee that spending on security and safety for BF next year goes up an order of magnitude if this suit goes anywhere.
If nothing else, it establishes precedent. If Walmart loses, then any store is guaranteed to lose any case in which something similar happens. Knowing that a death or serious injury in your store translates directly into $$$$$ lost will likely compel some of those actuaries to shift their numbers a bit.
Wal-Mart isn't going to lose, they're going to settle. And they're probably going to settle for a fraction of what the suit would actually cost them, because the guy's family probably can't afford to go through a multi-year trial in order to get the extensive punitive damages they're likely entitled to.
They'll probably also not take responsibility as part of the settlement, and not disclose how much it was for.
Well, Walmart is the best example of "corporate socialism" out there.
(For those who haven't heard the term, corporate socialism is where a company improves its bottom line by placing the externalities it generates on the head of society at large.)
That and the economics of scale.
They buy in such large quantities that their cost/unit are lower than any competitor and still sell products intentionally below cost because when your store is measured in acres the sheer amount of other products being bought, even if the margin is low, more than makes up for it.
Re: Black Friday, why does it even exist? Xmas unofficial begins much earlier now (like Halloween). There's no reason for an insane rush to buy. Tradition alone causes this insanity. And the potential for retail profit means it won't be abolished by any local authorities.
Wow, I never knew they could have companies manufacture the same model at a lower quality.
That IS impressive, in the Darth Vader sense.
If you buy certain high-end electronics (an HDTV for instance) at someplace like Wal-Mart, some of the more advanced features are locked out by software installed at the manufacturer. My friend had the Best Buy guys come by his place to calibrate an HDTV he'd picked up used somewhere and their magic master remote was unable to change, like, the contrast settings or something.
It's common for individual stores to make between $500k and $1m at least on Black Friday. That being, apparently, the NYC Wal~Mart it was probably a good bit over that.
It starts with the assumption that everyone gets their lists from people on thanksgiving day, and then goes out on the next day.
Anyway how much did wal-mart make on black friday? Will this law suit even gobble up the earnings from that one sales district?
A lot, and I seriously doubt it will hurt their bottom line. They will settle as an above poster mentioned and write it off as random bad luck.
Darkchampion3d on
Our country is now taking so steady a course as to show by what road it will pass to destruction, to wit: by consolidation of power first, and then corruption, its necessary consequence --Thomas Jefferson
Re: Black Friday, why does it even exist? Xmas unofficial begins much earlier now (like Halloween). There's no reason for an insane rush to buy. Tradition alone causes this insanity. And the potential for retail profit means it won't be abolished by any local authorities.
gl with trying to erase it.
most likely walmart will hold an "all week long" "blue light special" (or was that kmart) "black friday sale" next year and it will start at some odd hour of the day on that sunday before thanksgiving.
I don't know how I feel about the lawsuit. It won't stop BF sales or massive crowds of people who all want the same thing.
I'd not be so sure. It's unlikely, but possible. What it will do is change the way store plan around such crowds. I guarantee that spending on security and safety for BF next year goes up an order of magnitude if this suit goes anywhere.
If nothing else, it establishes precedent. If Walmart loses, then any store is guaranteed to lose any case in which something similar happens. Knowing that a death or serious injury in your store translates directly into $$$$$ lost will likely compel some of those actuaries to shift their numbers a bit.
Wal-Mart isn't going to lose, they're going to settle. And they're probably going to settle for a fraction of what the suit would actually cost them, because the guy's family probably can't afford to go through a multi-year trial in order to get the extensive punitive damages they're likely entitled to.
They'll probably also not take responsibility as part of the settlement, and not disclose how much it was for.
Actually knowing Walmart they'll delay the trial for years first. They might settle later but it won't be soon.
They buy in such large quantities that their cost/unit are lower than any competitor and still sell products intentionally below cost because when your store is measured in acres the sheer amount of other products being bought, even if the margin is low, more than makes up for it.
Actually, that's not really true. Walmart's real secret is that they're really good at getting localities to grant them all sorts of concessions with regards to taxes and utilities, allowing them to maintain a similar (or even higher) level of profit as their competitors and have lower prices.
They buy in such large quantities that their cost/unit are lower than any competitor and still sell products intentionally below cost because when your store is measured in acres the sheer amount of other products being bought, even if the margin is low, more than makes up for it.
Actually, that's not really true. Walmart's real secret is that they're really good at getting localities to grant them all sorts of concessions with regards to taxes and utilities, allowing them to maintain a similar (or even higher) level of profit as their competitors and have lower prices.
That may be true but you cannot also discount the fact that Wal-Mart created probably the best supply chain system ever created. They rewrote the fucking book on supply chain.
I just learnt about Wal-Mart in my management course. (I am an Aussie). Their inventory control system is and more importantly was absolutely amazing. Nowadays, the internet allows for rapid updates of stock info and collation at a head-office somewhere else in the country. But back when Wal-Mart was pioneering this revolutionary stock management system, (around the 80's) the internet was a sad and paltry thing. Not feasible for what they required. Their solution? Launch a fucking satellite network. A privately owned suite of satellites, solely for the purpose of stock control. That is amazing! You don't get more evil mega-corp than that!
I just learnt about Wal-Mart in my management course. (I am an Aussie). Their inventory control system is and more importantly was absolutely amazing. Nowadays, the internet allows for rapid updates of stock info and collation at a head-office somewhere else in the country. But back when Wal-Mart was pioneering this revolutionary stock management system, (around the 80's) the internet was a sad and paltry thing. Not feasible for what they required. Their solution? Launch a fucking satellite network. A privately owned suite of satellites, solely for the purpose of stock control. That is amazing! You don't get more evil mega-corp than that!
Wal-Mart has always been like 90% brilliant and 10% evil. People just like to focus only on that evil part.
I just learnt about Wal-Mart in my management course. (I am an Aussie). Their inventory control system is and more importantly was absolutely amazing. Nowadays, the internet allows for rapid updates of stock info and collation at a head-office somewhere else in the country. But back when Wal-Mart was pioneering this revolutionary stock management system, (around the 80's) the internet was a sad and paltry thing. Not feasible for what they required. Their solution? Launch a fucking satellite network. A privately owned suite of satellites, solely for the purpose of stock control. That is amazing! You don't get more evil mega-corp than that!
Wal-Mart has always been like 90% brilliant and 10% evil. People just like to focus only on that evil part.
Mainly because the 90% brilliant has always been in service to that 10% evil.
I submitted an entry to Lego Ideas, and if 10,000 people support me, it'll be turned into an actual Lego set!If you'd like to see and support my submission, follow this link.
I just learnt about Wal-Mart in my management course. (I am an Aussie). Their inventory control system is and more importantly was absolutely amazing. Nowadays, the internet allows for rapid updates of stock info and collation at a head-office somewhere else in the country. But back when Wal-Mart was pioneering this revolutionary stock management system, (around the 80's) the internet was a sad and paltry thing. Not feasible for what they required. Their solution? Launch a fucking satellite network. A privately owned suite of satellites, solely for the purpose of stock control. That is amazing! You don't get more evil mega-corp than that!
Wal-Mart has always been like 90% brilliant and 10% evil. People just like to focus only on that evil part.
Mainly because the 90% brilliant has always been in service to that 10% evil.
It is probably the only corporation that I can see evolving into a corporate ruling dynasty in a dystopian future.
I just learnt about Wal-Mart in my management course. (I am an Aussie). Their inventory control system is and more importantly was absolutely amazing. Nowadays, the internet allows for rapid updates of stock info and collation at a head-office somewhere else in the country. But back when Wal-Mart was pioneering this revolutionary stock management system, (around the 80's) the internet was a sad and paltry thing. Not feasible for what they required. Their solution? Launch a fucking satellite network. A privately owned suite of satellites, solely for the purpose of stock control. That is amazing! You don't get more evil mega-corp than that!
Wal-Mart has always been like 90% brilliant and 10% evil. People just like to focus only on that evil part.
Mainly because the 90% brilliant has always been in service to that 10% evil.
It is probably the only corporation that I can see evolving into a corporate ruling dynasty in a dystopian future.
Well better Wal-Mart than Exxon, BP, or some arms manufacturer right?
Malkor on
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ElJeffeNot actually a mod.Roaming the streets, waving his gun around.Moderator, ClubPAmod
Wow, I never knew they could have companies manufacture the same model at a lower quality.
That IS impressive, in the Darth Vader sense.
If you buy certain high-end electronics (an HDTV for instance) at someplace like Wal-Mart, some of the more advanced features are locked out by software installed at the manufacturer. My friend had the Best Buy guys come by his place to calibrate an HDTV he'd picked up used somewhere and their magic master remote was unable to change, like, the contrast settings or something.
Sort of like video card manufacturers gimping their high-end cards and selling them dirt-cheap?
ElJeffe on
I submitted an entry to Lego Ideas, and if 10,000 people support me, it'll be turned into an actual Lego set!If you'd like to see and support my submission, follow this link.
I just learnt about Wal-Mart in my management course. (I am an Aussie). Their inventory control system is and more importantly was absolutely amazing. Nowadays, the internet allows for rapid updates of stock info and collation at a head-office somewhere else in the country. But back when Wal-Mart was pioneering this revolutionary stock management system, (around the 80's) the internet was a sad and paltry thing. Not feasible for what they required. Their solution? Launch a fucking satellite network. A privately owned suite of satellites, solely for the purpose of stock control. That is amazing! You don't get more evil mega-corp than that!
Wal-Mart has always been like 90% brilliant and 10% evil. People just like to focus only on that evil part.
I just learnt about Wal-Mart in my management course. (I am an Aussie). Their inventory control system is and more importantly was absolutely amazing. Nowadays, the internet allows for rapid updates of stock info and collation at a head-office somewhere else in the country. But back when Wal-Mart was pioneering this revolutionary stock management system, (around the 80's) the internet was a sad and paltry thing. Not feasible for what they required. Their solution? Launch a fucking satellite network. A privately owned suite of satellites, solely for the purpose of stock control. That is amazing! You don't get more evil mega-corp than that!
Wal-Mart has always been like 90% brilliant and 10% evil. People just like to focus only on that evil part.
Mainly because the 90% brilliant has always been in service to that 10% evil.
It is probably the only corporation that I can see evolving into a corporate ruling dynasty in a dystopian future.
Well better Wal-Mart than Exxon, BP, or some arms manufacturer right?
Not really, no. You don't see a lot of sweatshop workers in the oil or weapons systems industries, after all.
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ZimmydoomAccept no substitutesRegistered Userregular
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Flew away in a balloon
Had sex with polar bears
While sitting in a reclining chair
Now there are Zim-Bear hybrids
Running around and clawing eyelids
Watch out, a Zim-Bear is about to have sex with yooooooou!
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Probably the fact that they left after seeing the crowd and how rowdy it was or whatevers
Right. I'm trying to ascertain how much responsibility the police had in this instance.
I don't think many people are going to be thinking that here. Dude died in an atrocious manner.
Given the look of that crowd, from the pictures I saw, I find it hard to believe that every available unit was responding to a more dangerous situation.
However I don't think legal precedent is on their side, at least from my understanding. The police have very little responsibility to actually protect the populace, and are given incredibly wide latitude in making such decisions.
How do you charge a mob of people with murder though.
CCTV everywhere.
I don't know how I feel about the lawsuit. It won't stop BF sales or massive crowds of people who all want the same thing. I'm surprised their not suing whoever designed the doors as well...
See: this entire thread
/facepalm
Mainly because you said "legally" responsible, which even more so than moral responsibility falls pretty squarely on the store. You craft advertisements with the intent of drawing a large crowd, then fail to control that crowd, then somebody dies on your property due to the crowd that you intentionally gathered there?
It doesn't get much more liable than that.
I'd not be so sure. It's unlikely, but possible. What it will do is change the way store plan around such crowds. I guarantee that spending on security and safety for BF next year goes up an order of magnitude if this suit goes anywhere.
I'm not saying Wal-mart is innocent, just that these people really aren't innocent either.
Have you read the thread? Like seriously?
We've discussed criminal charges and why they are tenuous at best here when it comes to assault and manslaughter.
It's very hard to establish any of the pushing because some people were being pushed themselves and others were creating pressure by breathing.
If nothing else, it establishes precedent. If Walmart loses, then any store is guaranteed to lose any case in which something similar happens. Knowing that a death or serious injury in your store translates directly into $$$$$ lost will likely compel some of those actuaries to shift their numbers a bit.
They'll probably also not take responsibility as part of the settlement, and not disclose how much it was for.
At least then they'd fight by the Marquess of Queensberry rules
That and the economics of scale.
They buy in such large quantities that their cost/unit are lower than any competitor and still sell products intentionally below cost because when your store is measured in acres the sheer amount of other products being bought, even if the margin is low, more than makes up for it.
Re: Black Friday, why does it even exist? Xmas unofficial begins much earlier now (like Halloween). There's no reason for an insane rush to buy. Tradition alone causes this insanity. And the potential for retail profit means it won't be abolished by any local authorities.
QEDMF xbl: PantsB G+
Anyway how much did wal-mart make on black friday? Will this law suit even gobble up the earnings from that one sales district?
If you buy certain high-end electronics (an HDTV for instance) at someplace like Wal-Mart, some of the more advanced features are locked out by software installed at the manufacturer. My friend had the Best Buy guys come by his place to calibrate an HDTV he'd picked up used somewhere and their magic master remote was unable to change, like, the contrast settings or something.
A lot, and I seriously doubt it will hurt their bottom line. They will settle as an above poster mentioned and write it off as random bad luck.
gl with trying to erase it.
most likely walmart will hold an "all week long" "blue light special" (or was that kmart) "black friday sale" next year and it will start at some odd hour of the day on that sunday before thanksgiving.
Actually knowing Walmart they'll delay the trial for years first. They might settle later but it won't be soon.
Actually, that's not really true. Walmart's real secret is that they're really good at getting localities to grant them all sorts of concessions with regards to taxes and utilities, allowing them to maintain a similar (or even higher) level of profit as their competitors and have lower prices.
More info on this if you're interested.
That may be true but you cannot also discount the fact that Wal-Mart created probably the best supply chain system ever created. They rewrote the fucking book on supply chain.
Wal-Mart has always been like 90% brilliant and 10% evil. People just like to focus only on that evil part.
Mainly because the 90% brilliant has always been in service to that 10% evil.
How evil?
It is probably the only corporation that I can see evolving into a corporate ruling dynasty in a dystopian future.
Well better Wal-Mart than Exxon, BP, or some arms manufacturer right?
Sort of like video card manufacturers gimping their high-end cards and selling them dirt-cheap?
It's not like the two are mutually exclusive.
As much as a small pony.