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[DnD 4E Discussion] This thread is dead.

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Posts

  • brentoddbrentodd Registered User regular
    edited February 2009
    OptimusZed wrote: »
    Is there any way to export character builder files so that they can be saved and posted elsewhere, or do they just print?

    I took a look at the contents of the save files in a text editor, and they're just XML - so in theory someone could write their own application to work with the files...

    I didn't look too deeply though - but it looked like they don't actually name the powers/skill you have though - it's just like POWER847727384 or something like that. So maybe it's of limited use...

    edit: It does maintain your character state at every level though - so the "View at Level" functionality is completely contained in that save file, which I thought was interesting...

  • HorseshoeHorseshoe Registered User regular
    edited February 2009
    OptimusZed wrote: »
    So, I posed this question on the official boards but the response hasn't been overwhelming;

    What's the best (in your opinion) manifestation for a Genesai Taclord? I'm going with Extra Manifestation for story reasons, but I'm curious as to what others think on this.

    I'm leaning towards Earth and Water for their powers and save bonuses. I'd kind of like one of the more aggressive ones for the same story reasons cited above, though.

    Anybody care to make a case for Fire or Storm?

    Actually I think Earth and Water are pretty sweet.

    You can name your character "Mudd".

    Woe betide dungeons with white carpets!

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  • OptimusZedOptimusZed Registered User regular
    edited February 2009
    Horseshoe wrote: »
    Actually I think Earth and Water are pretty sweet.

    You can name your character "Mudd".

    Woe betide dungeons with white carpets!
    Believe it or not, this isn't a selling point.

    I like the shockwave power, especially with that feat that adds damage to it. Right now I'm the party Wizard, so being able to add that little extra control back in would help bridge the gap a bit.

    Of course, my wife's Warlock killed almost a dozen minions in a single turn last night, so maybe we don't need a true Controller after all.

    We're reading Rifts. You should too. You know you want to. On Hiatus!

    Any gamers in the Danville, PA area? PM me if you're interested in some tabletop gaming.
  • MaddocMaddoc I'm Bobbin Threadbare, are you my mother? Registered User regular
    edited February 2009
    Kay wrote: »
    Maddoc wrote: »
    Kay wrote: »
    I have a quick question - was there any ever clarification posted on how Multiclassing at Paragon level was dealt with? The main rules book is very sketchy on it, and there seem to be a lot of mistakes. Like not being able to use some powers that you get depending on the second class you've taken - Multiclass Warlocks not getting the Curse or the +damage ability limiting the powers that are useful to them, and the benefit of a Pact, for example, while other Strikers DO get the +damage ability.
    I am almost entirely sure we'll see a multiclass feat that grants Warlock Curse 1/day in Arcane Power instead of Eldritch Blast.

    That said, some multiclass options are a bit less awesome than others. With Ranger multiclass, for example, players couldn't meet the requirements for any Ranger prestige paths pre-MP.

    Because they can't take the fighting styles, right.

    You can take Warlock Prestige Classes as a Multiclass Warlock, but you can't -do- anything with them, because you lack the Curse. I'm trying to work out houserulings with my DM (as in, if you Paragon Warlock rather than either set of prestige classes - the true Multiclass thing I'm talking about - you get some of the base Warlock powers in place for the base Paragon Path powers, like Warlock Curses, for example).

    In that case, the house rule I would suggest is a multiclass feat that grants Warlock Curse 1/day with a trained skill. It's still not terribly great for that, but it would keep it in line with the other feats and it's most likely the exact same form it'll appear in Arcane Power.

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  • OptimusZedOptimusZed Registered User regular
    edited February 2009
    Maddoc wrote: »
    Kay wrote: »
    Maddoc wrote: »
    Kay wrote: »
    I have a quick question - was there any ever clarification posted on how Multiclassing at Paragon level was dealt with? The main rules book is very sketchy on it, and there seem to be a lot of mistakes. Like not being able to use some powers that you get depending on the second class you've taken - Multiclass Warlocks not getting the Curse or the +damage ability limiting the powers that are useful to them, and the benefit of a Pact, for example, while other Strikers DO get the +damage ability.
    I am almost entirely sure we'll see a multiclass feat that grants Warlock Curse 1/day in Arcane Power instead of Eldritch Blast.

    That said, some multiclass options are a bit less awesome than others. With Ranger multiclass, for example, players couldn't meet the requirements for any Ranger prestige paths pre-MP.

    Because they can't take the fighting styles, right.

    You can take Warlock Prestige Classes as a Multiclass Warlock, but you can't -do- anything with them, because you lack the Curse. I'm trying to work out houserulings with my DM (as in, if you Paragon Warlock rather than either set of prestige classes - the true Multiclass thing I'm talking about - you get some of the base Warlock powers in place for the base Paragon Path powers, like Warlock Curses, for example).

    In that case, the house rule I would suggest is a multiclass feat that grants Warlock Curse 1/day with a trained skill. It's still not terribly great for that, but it would keep it in line with the other feats and it's most likely the exact same form it'll appear in Arcane Power.
    The problem is that those abilities aren't directly related to the Curse, but rather to the Pact Boon. That means the multiclass feats would have to give access to two class abilities (the Curse and the Boon that the curse triggers) in addition to the skill that comes with ever MC feat. I guess the alternative is that you give the curse with one feat and the Pact Boon with another, but MP set a precident for those kinds of feats to be Paragon Multiclass only and I don't know if they'd stray from that now that they've kind of established it.

    We're reading Rifts. You should too. You know you want to. On Hiatus!

    Any gamers in the Danville, PA area? PM me if you're interested in some tabletop gaming.
  • MaddocMaddoc I'm Bobbin Threadbare, are you my mother? Registered User regular
    edited February 2009
    OptimusZed wrote: »
    Maddoc wrote: »
    Kay wrote: »
    Maddoc wrote: »
    Kay wrote: »
    I have a quick question - was there any ever clarification posted on how Multiclassing at Paragon level was dealt with? The main rules book is very sketchy on it, and there seem to be a lot of mistakes. Like not being able to use some powers that you get depending on the second class you've taken - Multiclass Warlocks not getting the Curse or the +damage ability limiting the powers that are useful to them, and the benefit of a Pact, for example, while other Strikers DO get the +damage ability.
    I am almost entirely sure we'll see a multiclass feat that grants Warlock Curse 1/day in Arcane Power instead of Eldritch Blast.

    That said, some multiclass options are a bit less awesome than others. With Ranger multiclass, for example, players couldn't meet the requirements for any Ranger prestige paths pre-MP.

    Because they can't take the fighting styles, right.

    You can take Warlock Prestige Classes as a Multiclass Warlock, but you can't -do- anything with them, because you lack the Curse. I'm trying to work out houserulings with my DM (as in, if you Paragon Warlock rather than either set of prestige classes - the true Multiclass thing I'm talking about - you get some of the base Warlock powers in place for the base Paragon Path powers, like Warlock Curses, for example).

    In that case, the house rule I would suggest is a multiclass feat that grants Warlock Curse 1/day with a trained skill. It's still not terribly great for that, but it would keep it in line with the other feats and it's most likely the exact same form it'll appear in Arcane Power.
    The problem is that those abilities aren't directly related to the Curse, but rather to the Pact Boon. That means the multiclass feats would have to give access to two class abilities (the Curse and the Boon that the curse triggers) in addition to the skill that comes with ever MC feat. I guess the alternative is that you give the curse with one feat and the Pact Boon with another, but MP set a precident for those kinds of feats to be Paragon Multiclass only and I don't know if they'd stray from that now that they've kind of established it.

    I thought he was talking about Paragon Multiclass here.

    This does go to show that, despite how useful and awesome multiclassing can be, it does seem like it was just sort of added on top of the already existing system without working out many of the finer points.

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  • REG RyskREG Rysk Lord Rageface Rageington Registered User regular
    edited February 2009
    On the contrary, I think the fact that you cant get the curse/boon is a show of how they precisely considered the existing system. They are telling you that a Warlock multi-class was specifically designed to NOT work with some powers/abilities that utilize the curse or boon in order to be truly effective.

    Same with Ranger and their class feats, hunters quarry etc. Makes perfect sense.

  • OptimusZedOptimusZed Registered User regular
    edited February 2009
    Maddoc wrote: »
    I thought he was talking about Paragon Multiclass here.

    This does go to show that, despite how useful and awesome multiclassing can be, it does seem like it was just sort of added on top of the already existing system without working out many of the finer points.
    Ah. I was under the impression we were still talking about the problem of PP's that focused on class abilities that you didn't get via multiclassing.

    We're reading Rifts. You should too. You know you want to. On Hiatus!

    Any gamers in the Danville, PA area? PM me if you're interested in some tabletop gaming.
  • GoumindongGoumindong Registered User regular
    edited February 2009
    Horseshoe wrote: »
    OptimusZed wrote: »
    Damn. Are the previews really coming that fast and furious (Avenger and Druid now)?

    I may finally have to sign up for DDI after putting it off this long. I'm a preview whore, and the Character Builder is looking pretty awesome now that I'm starting a couple new campaigns.

    Gotta say, that Character Builder is pretty dang convenient.


    Pretty much these are the reasons that I see for subscribing:

    For DM's:

    Adventures
    Compendium

    For Players:

    Compendium
    Character Builder.

    The builder and Compendium might not be worth it to you. Especially if you own all the books and have to be "right up to date"(since the books will get into your hands before the compendium and builder are updated.

    But the adventures are pretty essential for a DM with little time.

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  • OptimusZedOptimusZed Registered User regular
    edited February 2009
    Anybody know where the tables or rules are for equipping PC's starting after first level? I need to pick magical items for a level 4 character.

    Thanks in advance.

    We're reading Rifts. You should too. You know you want to. On Hiatus!

    Any gamers in the Danville, PA area? PM me if you're interested in some tabletop gaming.
  • AegeriAegeri Registered User regular
    edited February 2009
    By the standard rules you'll have one 5th level, one 4th level and one 3rd level magic item. You should have enough gold to buy a second 3rd level weapon as well (about a thousandish IIRC). It's in the DMG.

  • OptimusZedOptimusZed Registered User regular
    edited February 2009
    Aegeri wrote: »
    By the standard rules you'll have one 5th level, one 4th level and one 3rd level magic item. You should have enough gold to buy a second 3rd level weapon as well (about a thousandish IIRC). It's in the DMG.
    Great. Thanks, man. I know it's in there somewhere, but damned if I can find it.

    We're reading Rifts. You should too. You know you want to. On Hiatus!

    Any gamers in the Danville, PA area? PM me if you're interested in some tabletop gaming.
  • DenadaDenada Registered User regular
    edited February 2009
    "Starting at Higher Level", page 143 in the DMG.

  • MolotovCockatooMolotovCockatoo Registered User regular
    edited February 2009
    OptimusZed wrote: »
    Anybody know where the tables or rules are for equipping PC's starting after first level? I need to pick magical items for a level 4 character.

    Thanks in advance.

    Someone already answered with the page number but just for everyone's benefit, you get a magic item of one level higher than the level you start at, one of equal level, one of one level lower, and gold equivalent to an item of one level lower (if you're are starting at a level higher than 1).

    Killjoy wrote: »
    No jeez Orik why do you assume the worst about people?

    Because he moderates an internet forum

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  • PhanmanPhanman Registered User
    edited February 2009
    Yeah, it is a little disappointing when they update the character builder, but it is a very nice tool to manage your characters.

    I think I'll get a subscription and share it with my group, which seems to make sense right now since Game Table isn't operational.

    Also, I saw in Gabe's post the other day about an online dice rolling ap. I've used a couple different things, but it seemed like they were using one that was shared amongst computers. That would be neat to see everyone's dice rolls, do you guys know of any good ones that do that?

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  • REG RyskREG Rysk Lord Rageface Rageington Registered User regular
    edited February 2009
    Maptools does that, not sure about their dicetool.

    Also,

    MCing into another classes PP that has need to use the classes abilities and feats is the point I was trying to make. They allow you to PP into your MC, but there are going to be some that are decidedly better for the primary class. It also depends on the class.

    Don't have my books so this is all from memory and I may be wrong...

    MC Wizard gives you an implement you can use, but you can't gain any of their encounter use powers, like Staff of Defense or Wand of Accuracy. So a Swordmage who MCs Wizard and takes WotST gains the ability to use his sword as an implement for other known Wizard spells, but doesn't gain the benefit of being able to use it like it's an implement mastery feat like a primary wizard would.

    Am I totally off base here with this..?

  • OptimusZedOptimusZed Registered User regular
    edited February 2009
    REG Rysk wrote: »
    Am I totally off base here with this..?
    No, you're right on here. That's exactly how it works.

    They haven't really shown any indication that this wasn't their intention, unfortunately. There are now feats that flesh out those types of class abilities for the Martial classes, but only if you're doing Paragon Multiclassing.

    We're reading Rifts. You should too. You know you want to. On Hiatus!

    Any gamers in the Danville, PA area? PM me if you're interested in some tabletop gaming.
  • PhanmanPhanman Registered User
    edited February 2009
    Excellent, I wasn't aware you could do that in maptools, I'll have to look into it and explain it to my group.

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  • REG RyskREG Rysk Lord Rageface Rageington Registered User regular
    edited February 2009
    Those limitations are there for a reason. At least that's what I think. You shouldn't have access to all of the class feats if you are only a half-time member of that class. More importantly, you can spend feats to make get them or make you more effective, which makes sense, since you'd then be 'investing' more time in that class.

    Imagine how game breaking a Bard could be. If I had one, he'd fill his Heroic feats with MC, whatever classes he could manage.

  • MrBeensMrBeens Registered User regular
    edited February 2009
    REG Rysk wrote: »
    Maptools does that, not sure about their dicetool.

    Also,

    MCing into another classes PP that has need to use the classes abilities and feats is the point I was trying to make. They allow you to PP into your MC, but there are going to be some that are decidedly better for the primary class. It also depends on the class.

    Don't have my books so this is all from memory and I may be wrong...

    MC Wizard gives you an implement you can use, but you can't gain any of their encounter use powers, like Staff of Defense or Wand of Accuracy. So a Swordmage who MCs Wizard and takes WotST gains the ability to use his sword as an implement for other known Wizard spells, but doesn't gain the benefit of being able to use it like it's an implement mastery feat like a primary wizard would.

    Am I totally off base here with this..?

    No that's exactly the way I see it too - just because the base rules say that you can take a PP from your MC it doesn't mean that it is the best choice or that there shouldn't be exceptions.
    My wizard has taken the cleric MC feat, and in theory I could take any cleric PP, but most of them are mechanically (and thematically) bad choices.
    A fighter however taking the same cleric MC feat could quite easily take more of the cleric PP.

  • cdrcjsncdrcjsn Registered User
    edited February 2009
    REG Rysk wrote: »
    Imagine how game breaking a Bard could be. If I had one, he'd fill his Heroic feats with MC, whatever classes he could manage.

    It's not as game breaking as you think. Try building one and you quickly find out that the stats matter a lot and that the MC feats are actually fairly balanced. Sure, they're better than normal feats because they tack on that extra skill for free, but it's hardly game breaking (and often you double up on redundant skills).

    After seeing a 10th level bard in combat with mostly MC feats, I didn't think it was any better than an equal level artificer, shaman, cleric, or warlord.

    The ability to take on multiple MC feats do allow a bard to more easily take up a different role, but doing that is already fairly easy with any class.

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  • cdrcjsncdrcjsn Registered User
    edited February 2009
    MrBeens wrote: »
    My wizard has taken the cleric MC feat, and in theory I could take any cleric PP, but most of them are mechanically (and thematically) bad choices.
    A fighter however taking the same cleric MC feat could quite easily take more of the cleric PP.

    Divine Oracle is actually fairly nice for wizards. It's not better than Blood Mage for pure damage, but it sure is nice.

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  • REG RyskREG Rysk Lord Rageface Rageington Registered User regular
    edited February 2009
    My bad, I was trying to make a reference to if they could have all of the feats, like a bard who can Quarry and Sneak Attack a previously cursed enemy for like 3d6 bonus damage on a single turn.

    And yes, the stats present a bit of a problem in the actual scenario.

  • YesNoMuYesNoMu Registered User
    edited February 2009
    REG Rysk wrote: »
    Don't have my books so this is all from memory and I may be wrong...

    MC Wizard gives you an implement you can use, but you can't gain any of their encounter use powers, like Staff of Defense or Wand of Accuracy. So a Swordmage who MCs Wizard and takes WotST gains the ability to use his sword as an implement for other known Wizard spells, but doesn't gain the benefit of being able to use it like it's an implement mastery feat like a primary wizard would.

    Am I totally off base here with this..?
    Technically, WotST lets you use a sword only in place of the implement you have Mastery of. So, by RAW, an MC wizard can't use a longsword as an implement for wizard spells, WotST or no.

    However, I'd punch a DM who didn't allow it in the cock.

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  • cdrcjsncdrcjsn Registered User
    edited February 2009
    REG Rysk wrote: »
    My bad, I was trying to make a reference to if they could have all of the feats, like a bard who can Quarry and Sneak Attack a previously cursed enemy for like 3d6 bonus damage on a single turn.

    That's just it. It's nice for a single turn. But since most combats last 5 rounds, what are they doing for those other 4 rounds?

    Likewise, 10.5 average damage for the cost of two feats? Take weapon proficiency (random big weapon) and weapon focus and you can do more than 10.5 average damage over the course of combat (especially since you're not limited by needing to spend a minor action to quarry and using a limited set of weapons to sneak attack with).

    As feats go, they're balanced with other feats in terms of how much power they actually provide during combat. The real bonus is finding synergies and options not available to the main class.

    I'm not saying that MC feats aren't nice, but being able to take multiples of them isn't as game breaking as it first appears.

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  • REG RyskREG Rysk Lord Rageface Rageington Registered User regular
    edited February 2009
    Excellent observation!

    However, the RAW is....

    :P

  • REG RyskREG Rysk Lord Rageface Rageington Registered User regular
    edited February 2009
    cdrcjsn wrote: »
    REG Rysk wrote: »
    My bad, I was trying to make a reference to if they could have all of the feats, like a bard who can Quarry and Sneak Attack a previously cursed enemy for like 3d6 bonus damage on a single turn.

    That's just it. It's nice for a single turn. But since most combats last 5 rounds, what are they doing for those other 4 rounds?

    Likewise, 10.5 average damage for the cost of two feats? Take weapon proficiency (random big weapon) and weapon focus and you can do more than 10.5 average damage over the course of combat (especially since you're not limited by needing to spend a minor action to quarry and using a limited set of weapons to sneak attack with).

    As feats go, they're balanced with other feats in terms of how much power they actually provide during combat. The real bonus is finding synergies and options not available to the main class.

    I'm not saying that MC feats aren't nice, but being able to take multiples of them isn't as game breaking as it first appears.

    I think you're missing my point. I'm saying that if they didn't put restrictions on the MCs you could end up with some ridiculous situations where you have players breaking the game by gaining full use of all of the feats and from the MC. And that is just silly, you're supposed to be a novice of that class, not a full fledged member of it.

  • OptimusZedOptimusZed Registered User regular
    edited February 2009
    cdrcjsn wrote: »
    MrBeens wrote: »
    My wizard has taken the cleric MC feat, and in theory I could take any cleric PP, but most of them are mechanically (and thematically) bad choices.
    A fighter however taking the same cleric MC feat could quite easily take more of the cleric PP.

    Divine Oracle is actually fairly nice for wizards. It's not better than Blood Mage for pure damage, but it sure is nice.
    Divine Oracle is much better for support mages or ones that focus on Will targetting spells. By the same token, the best straight Defender PP for Paladins might be Battlepriest (or whatever they're calling it in this edition). There are interesting combinations like that all over the place. Another example is a Fighter/Rogue/Dashing Swashbuckler, though it's not out-and-out the best option available.

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  • Mostlyjoe13Mostlyjoe13 Semiaquatic Suburban Subtropical Wasteland aka. FloridaRegistered User regular
    edited February 2009
    I always thought that some of the Paragon Paths for the Warlock were open worded enough to grant bonuses for some MC's that stepped into them. Such as the Fey Pact ones from the core/FR such as the Evermeet Warlock that allows for damage when a teleport goes off. Add that to a Sword Mage and you got a nasty Aegis of Assault trick.

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  • LitejediLitejedi New York CityRegistered User regular
    edited February 2009
    My paladin is going to take student of caiphon. The only thing holding him back is the use of warlock implements, which requires extra money.

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  • TerrendosTerrendos Decorative Monocle Registered User regular
    edited February 2009
    Student of Caiphon is pretty much nuts. 18-20 crits on powers with Radiant or Fear keywords? That's like 3/4 of a Starlock's repertoire.

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  • Kay2Kay2 Registered User
    edited February 2009
    So, not wanting to be lazy or anything, but what sort of cool stuff can you do with a half-elven Warlord that's MCed into Fey Pact Warlock?

    I was thinking that Dilettante would be awesome for a more MC feel, and that a Warlord's shift ally/enemy powers along with Warlock teleports for battle placement, and a couple of ranged powers would just be nifty in combat, and I liked the concept I worked up for the character, so I ran with it.

  • AegeriAegeri Registered User regular
    edited February 2009
    Where did this infernal poll come from.

    Thanatos if this is your work, I shall consume your soul.

    FROM THE INSIDE.

  • YesNoMuYesNoMu Registered User
    edited February 2009
    Terrendos wrote: »
    Student of Caiphon is pretty much nuts. 18-20 crits on powers with Radiant or Fear keywords? That's like 3/4 of a Starlock's repertoire.
    Isn't Student of Caiphon the "I take damage to make my encounters Reliable" feat? Or am I thinking of something else?

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  • Draw On Holy MightDraw On Holy Might Registered User
    edited February 2009
    That's Sacrifice to Caiphon (which is totally awesome).

  • AegeriAegeri Registered User regular
    edited February 2009
    Yeah, it's probably borderline overpowered but I think that because it does a fairly reasonable amount of damage (especially once you start getting into paragon/epic tier) that I find it reasonable. It is by far one of the best T1 feats.

  • MrBeensMrBeens Registered User regular
    edited February 2009
    cdrcjsn wrote: »
    MrBeens wrote: »
    My wizard has taken the cleric MC feat, and in theory I could take any cleric PP, but most of them are mechanically (and thematically) bad choices.
    A fighter however taking the same cleric MC feat could quite easily take more of the cleric PP.

    Divine Oracle is actually fairly nice for wizards. It's not better than Blood Mage for pure damage, but it sure is nice.

    That's exactly the PP I was going to take (barring Arcane Power putting something new in the mix).
    All of the basic Wizard PP didn't really float my boat or fit my character, but a guy who constantly sees a few seconds into the future and can fortell the coming of a critical hit is cool.

  • LitejediLitejedi New York CityRegistered User regular
    edited February 2009
    Aegeri wrote: »
    Yeah, it's probably borderline overpowered but I think that because it does a fairly reasonable amount of damage (especially once you start getting into paragon/epic tier) that I find it reasonable. It is by far one of the best T1 feats.

    It's awesome because it doesn't specify warlock powers.

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  • OptimusZedOptimusZed Registered User regular
    edited February 2009
    New poll needs a write in option.

    We're reading Rifts. You should too. You know you want to. On Hiatus!

    Any gamers in the Danville, PA area? PM me if you're interested in some tabletop gaming.
  • UtsanomikoUtsanomiko Registered User regular
    edited February 2009
    OptimusZed wrote: »
    New poll needs a write in option.

    It was the best of editions, it was the blorst of editions.

    EDIT: Oh hell no sorry guys that was a bad TotP I'm still very new to topping pages.

    hmm.gif
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