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The DC Thread: How many Crises is Too Many?

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  • TairuTairu Registered User regular
    edited April 2011
    In a lot of ways, Mark Twain was like the original Batman.

    Tairu on
  • TexiKenTexiKen Dammit! That fish really got me!Registered User regular
    edited April 2011
    DC finally unveiled the artists for the 80's issues of Retroactive:


    DC RETROACTIVE: BATMAN– THE ‘80s #1
    Artist Jerry Bingham and writer Mike W. Barr come together to tell the story of someone using the name, appearance and methodology of The Reaper and is stalking the streets of Gotham City and killing off mobsters. The catch? Both men who previously masqueraded as The Reaper are dead. Can Batman get to the bottom of the identity of this mysterious killer while simultaneously shepherding an untried Robin (Jason Todd)?
    ONE-SHOT • On sale AUGUST 3 • 56 pg, FC, $4.99 US • RATED T


    DC RETROACTIVE: JUSTICE LEAGUE OF AMERICA – THE ‘80s #1
    Along with writer Gerry Conway, artist Ron Randall revisits JLA Detroit, a chapter in the team’s history that may have been one their most controversial line-ups ever.
    ONE-SHOT • On sale AUGUST 10 • 56 pg, FC, $4.99 US • RATED T


    DC RETROACTIVE: THE FLASH – THE ‘80s #1
    The ‘80s were a decade that forever changed the Scarlet Speedster. Now telling a new story from that era will be the creative team of artist Greg LaRocque and writer William Messner-Loebs.
    ONE-SHOT • On sale AUGUST 3 • 56 pg, FC, $4.99 US • RATED T


    DC RETROACTIVE: GREEN LANTERN – THE ‘80s #1
    Reuniting with legendary comic book writer Len Wein is fan-favorite artist Joe Staton to tell an exciting story that sets Hal Jordan in the heart of the 1980’s.
    ONE-SHOT • On sale AUGUST 10 • 56 pg, FC, $4.99 US • RATED T


    DC RETROACTIVE: WONDER WOMAN – THE ‘80s #1
    Artist Rich Buckler teams up with writer Roy Thomas as Wonder Woman must battle Silver Swan to protect her secret identity from being revealed.
    ONE-SHOT • On sale AUGUST 3 • 56 pg, FC, $4.99 US • RATED T


    DC RETROACTIVE: SUPERMAN – THE ‘80s #1
    Joining acclaimed writer Marv Wolfman will be artist Sergio Cariello to tell an exciting “lost tale” about the Man of Steel that connects directly to Crisis on Infinite Earths.
    ONE-SHOT • On sale AUGUST 10 • 56 pg, FC, $4.99 US • RATED T




    The Flash one looks like it's worth picking up now that LaRocque is the artist with Messner-Loebs.

    TexiKen on
  • RansRans Registered User regular
    edited April 2011
    i was hoping the Green Lantern issue would have Len Wein and Joe Staton return to their use of John Stewart. Although I guess originally it was Len Wein and Dave Gibbons then Steve Englehart and Joe Staton, but both sets of writers/artists used John Stewart in the 80s.

    Rans on
  • HadjiQuestHadjiQuest Registered User regular
    edited April 2011
    JLA Detroit?

    The Reaper? Wasn't that a 90s creation?

    Man, what a crazy list of shit. I really hope these are collected well.

    HadjiQuest on
  • The Lovely BastardThe Lovely Bastard Registered User regular
    edited April 2011
    Really interested in seeing jla detroit again

    The Lovely Bastard on
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  • TexiKenTexiKen Dammit! That fish really got me!Registered User regular
    edited April 2011
    Who do you think is behind the current direction to make DC more global, at the detriment of existing history (this is more Superman's case than the others)? You've got Didio, Lee, Diane Nelson, Geoff Johns and that other guy. Or is it just terrible editors with a complete lack of focus doing it in a ham fisted way?

    Over the past year we've had WW get a new look with a potential new origin, Batman going global, JLI coming back, and Superman foolishly renouncing his citizenship at the behest of Iran, basically.

    I guess what's gnawing at me is that you have Gavrill, for instance, being the new Rocket Red. He's a fun character but still allowed to be pretty much all about the motherland, so you're keeping his"russian-ness," so to speak. You also have certain Batmen around the world adapting Batman for their own country. True, Batman Japan is relatively the same but you've got other Batmen in Europe in South America keeping some of their own cultural distinctions. You're allowing branding to be reflective of other countries yet Superman can't be considered American (which again, is something you don't even have to address anymore, BUT you just don't take it away). In an attempt to go globally, does Justice League International really need to be called international then, couldn't it just be Justice League? Just get rid of the specification completely, that way there's no problems.

    I don't know, it may just be rambling and I'm still grumpy about Action #900, but why does one key thing have to change when DC has shown a way to keep the old and the new working just fine like in Batman Inc.?

    TexiKen on
  • Robos A Go GoRobos A Go Go Registered User regular
    edited April 2011
    I wouldn't have thought that the Superman thing was in-continuity. It seems like an unused script that was just tossed into Action Comics, as it doesn't reflect any of the current stuff going on with the character.

    If this was going to be a new direction for the character, wouldn't it be a primary storyline rather than an interlude in the main stories? And wouldn't they have had an actual comic writer take charge on this rather than letting Goyer initiate the change?

    Also, I don't think JLI or Wonder Woman count as trying to make the comics more international in appeal. JLI probably isn't going to be the main Justice League title (which is why they can't just call it Justice League), and Wonder Woman hasn't been a nationalistic character in decades.

    Meanwhile, Gavrill's hardly a bastion of Russian culture. Apart from being a communist, he's far more interested in American culture than his own heritage. The broken English, burly frame, and oafishness also makes him a huge stereotype.

    Robos A Go Go on
  • TexiKenTexiKen Dammit! That fish really got me!Registered User regular
    edited April 2011
    I would say the Superman thing is a throwaway, and if it showed up in an 80-page giant I wouldn't really be bothered by it. It's just that they chose to put it in AC #900, a big momentous event not only in Superman terms but in the comic industry. They knew it would draw in more attention because it was a milestone issue, which makes it seem a little bit malicious in how it was done.

    And yeah, the other things probably aren't a problem, I'm just super-bummed. We were just getting out of the JMS run, there was light at the end of the tunnel, and Paul Cornell told a really good Luthor Story to bring back Superman, but this is what has taken hold. With WW I was thinking more how there has always been the thought of "why is she wearing red white and blue?" and the new costume addressed it, along with the idea she is some kind of focal point for the universe, a universal truth or somesuch.

    TexiKen on
  • MunchMunch Registered User regular
    edited April 2011
    I wouldn't have thought that the Superman thing was in-continuity. It seems like an unused script that was just tossed into Action Comics, as it doesn't reflect any of the current stuff going on with the character.
    Yeah. I know it's a big anniversary issue or whatever, but I wouldn't count on it being hugely important.

    As for the very idea of Superman becoming more of an international hero, the only problem I really have with it, is that I always viewed that as Martian Manhunter's role in the DCU.

    Like, Superman's an American citizen. There's no denying it. He came to the States as a baby, grew up immersed in Americana, and spends 99% of his time in America, dealing with American threats.

    Conversely, J'onn's much more the classical immigrant. He came to Earth as an adult, having grown up with his own culture, his own values, a family of his own, etc. He essentially fled (though not really by choice) his homeland due to it becoming an unlivable Hell. That's not so different from any immigrant that fled terrible circumstances, to build a life in America.

    Then, when he got to Earth, he completely embraced it. He took a home in virtually every country in the world, living as a man, a woman, a cat, a police officer, a revolutionary, a politician, etc. But, he always carried his heritage and culture with him, never letting go of it, but never letting it stand in the way of finding new things to love about Earth.

    That said, I get that Superman's a bigger draw than Martian Manhunter. But, were he to take up the international banner in such a way, it really feels like it's stepping on the Manhunter's toes a bit.

    Of course, anything that pisses off Fox News commentators is A-okay in my book.

    Munch on
  • Robos A Go GoRobos A Go Go Registered User regular
    edited April 2011
    I would say the Superman thing is a throwaway, and if it showed up in an 80-page giant I wouldn't really be bothered by it. It's just that they chose to put it in AC #900, a big momentous event not only in Superman terms but in the comic industry. They knew it would draw in more attention because it was a milestone issue, which makes it seem a little bit malicious in how it was done.

    I know they treated it like a momentous event, but the content itself seemed a bit thrown together. The Doomsday story doesn't mesh with the Luthor story, no matter how hard they tried to make it work, and most of the backup content seems like filler.

    Also, while protests are still going on in Iran, the story's tone very much suggests that it was written last year. It just seems to take place when the use of social media to organize demonstrations was still novel and Iran was the most prominent example of unrest in the Middle East. At this point, it doesn't make sense for Superman to be acting like Twitter is a new phenomena or that the disappearance of key protestors is mere speculation.

    Altogether, the book just seems like a slapdash product and a ham-fisted way to help the book transition from Luthor's perspective to Superman's in time for issue #900, not a cynical attempt to create controversy by giving Superman an entirely new direction. I mean, when that sort of thing happens, DC and Marvel promote the event in advance to drum up orders (see Captain America/Superman's death or the Obama issue of Spider-Man) rather than relying on a viral marketing campaign fueled by hatred.

    Robos A Go Go on
  • TexiKenTexiKen Dammit! That fish really got me!Registered User regular
    edited April 2011
    Fair points, but with the movie coming up and Goyer being a part of that (last I checked), it seems like they were trying to set forward a template that might be used for the next year.

    If this can disappear like Superman whining about global warming while Amazons are cutting people's heads off in DC, I'll be happy. I just don't know anymore with how DC does things these days, because it always feels like one step forward, one step back.

    TexiKen on
  • RingoRingo He/Him a distinct lack of substanceRegistered User regular
    edited April 2011
    The Iranian election was actually two years ago, this June

    Ringo on
  • WildcatWildcat Registered User regular
    edited April 2011
    Funny, from a non-American point of view I would have tended to view Superman as more of the world's superhero than J'onn.

    Wildcat on
  • TexiKenTexiKen Dammit! That fish really got me!Registered User regular
    edited May 2011
    90's retroactive artists:

    DC RETROACTIVE: SUPERMAN – THE ‘90s #1
    Fan-favorite creative team of writer Louise Simonson and artist Jon Bogdanove come back together to tell a lost tale of the Man of Steel. As Lex Luthor slowly loses his mind, he subsequently hatches a scheme that could both increase his wealth and kill Superman. Can he successfully kill two birds with one stone? Not if Clark Kent has anything to say about it.


    DC RETROACTIVE: WONDER WOMAN – THE ‘90s #1
    Joining writer William Messner-Loebs is artist Paris Cullins to tell a defining story that shows why Wonder Woman is Princess of the Amazons.


    DC RETROACTIVE: GREEN LANTERN – THE ‘90s #1
    In this issue, the legendary ‘90s creative team of Ron Marz and Darryl Banks team up again. The result? Kyle Rayner, while on monitor duty at the JLA Watchtower, must overcome his fears in order to stop a villain in his tracks and save his own abilities and imagination.


    DC RETROACTIVE: THE FLASH – THE ‘90s #1
    When Wally West became The Flash in the ‘90s, he morphed from a sidekick into a hero in his own right. The creative team of writer Brian Augustyn and artist Mike Bowden set the Fastest Man Alive in another race against evil.


    DC RETROACTIVE: JUSTICE LEAGUE OF AMERICA – THE ‘90s #1
    Writers Keith Giffen and J.M. DeMatteis and artist Kevin Maguire are one of the most classic creative teams in the Justice League’s history. In this issue, they reunite to tell the story of the Injustice Gang gaining access to a device they should never have been allowed to have, causing potentially disastrous results. It’ll be up to the Justice League of America to put a stop to their dastardly deeds.


    DC RETROACTIVE: BATMAN – THE ‘90s #1
    Writer Alan Grant and artist Norm Breyfogle helm a tale that spins directly off of the events of DETECTIVE COMICS #613 (reprinted in this issue). When The Ventriloquist and Scarface are released from prison after only one year, they become determined to reclaim their statuses in the upper echelon of Batman’s Rogues Gallery.



    Seems like they didn't really want to do a 90's JLA story, so we're essentially getting 80's JLA a decade later. Superman, Flash, and JLA all look good.

    TexiKen on
  • BlankZoeBlankZoe Registered User regular
    edited May 2011
    I have no idea why they didn't get a Morrison/Porter one-shot. Both of them are still at DC and Morrison is only writing one book right now.

    BlankZoe on
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  • TexiKenTexiKen Dammit! That fish really got me!Registered User regular
    edited May 2011
    That would have been nice. Hell, they probably have a Morrison story in the shelf somewhere from that era.

    TexiKen on
  • HadjiQuestHadjiQuest Registered User regular
    edited May 2011
    Morrison probably demands a higher wage.

    Beyond that, I hear he's almost impossible to contact, so I imagine they probably pass over him for a lot of smaller things.

    HadjiQuest on
  • The Lovely BastardThe Lovely Bastard Registered User regular
    edited May 2011
    still miffed there is no suicide squad book

    I wanna see the further adventures of Grant Morrisson

    The Lovely Bastard on
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  • TexiKenTexiKen Dammit! That fish really got me!Registered User regular
    edited May 2011
    Rise of Arsenal won a Prism award.

    Greek Street did too, but that book actually deserved it. I don't know how Arsenal is an accurate portrayal of drug and mental health issues.

    TexiKen on
  • The Lovely BastardThe Lovely Bastard Registered User regular
    edited May 2011
    It was a thing written for crazy people to enjoy

    The Lovely Bastard on
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  • Macro9Macro9 Registered User regular
    edited May 2011
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    Macro9 on
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  • TexiKenTexiKen Dammit! That fish really got me!Registered User regular
    edited May 2011
    Macro9 wrote: »
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    I thought Brevoort would chalk that up as a victory, that Marvel is so powerful people think they publish the most iconic superhero out there. He was actually kind of tame in that response.

    (Macro you moved between the multiverse threads)

    TexiKen on
  • Macro9Macro9 Registered User regular
    edited May 2011
    I'm just an angry old Oan trying to find meaning in my life.

    Macro9 on
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  • FuruFuru Registered User regular
    edited May 2011
    Brevoort is tame in most of his responses, unless someone is asking something supremely stupid/douchey

    Furu on
  • TexiKenTexiKen Dammit! That fish really got me!Registered User regular
    edited May 2011
    Then he must have a different persona for his formspring compared to his twitter feed and how he acts in interviews.

    TexiKen on
  • TexiKenTexiKen Dammit! That fish really got me!Registered User regular
    edited May 2011
    Paul Dini writing Zatanna/Black Canary graphic novel. A few pencilled pages at the link.

    TexiKen on
  • MunchMunch Registered User regular
    edited May 2011
    Joe Quinones is amazing, so I'm in.

    Munch on
  • TexiKenTexiKen Dammit! That fish really got me!Registered User regular
    edited May 2011
    Kevin Maguire tweeted from a Starbucks to show a dude's buttcrack, but he also probably showed this page on purpose too:

    link, might be NSFW (just plumber's butt)

    TexiKen on
  • BlankZoeBlankZoe Registered User regular
    edited May 2011
    You maaaaaaaaay want to spoiler that and label it NSFW

    BlankZoe on
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  • TexiKenTexiKen Dammit! That fish really got me!Registered User regular
    edited May 2011
    it's just reverse Power Girl bust!

    TexiKen on
  • SolarSolar Registered User regular
    edited May 2011
    Anyone seen this?

    I wonder (if this does happen) whether it will be a purely numbers based thing regarding issues or an actually in-universe reboot.

    Solar on
  • SolarSolar Registered User regular
    edited May 2011
    Also Justice League: Generation Lost is pretty great. I really like every character on the team, even the ones like Fire and Ice that I didn't really know about before I started reading.

    Solar on
  • lionheart_mlionheart_m Registered User regular
    edited May 2011
    Solar wrote: »
    Anyone seen this?

    I wonder (if this does happen) whether it will be a purely numbers based thing regarding issues or an actually in-universe reboot.

    So...is this like a Crisis redux? I...don't even know what to say. You know, maybe it's for the best. I kinda of want to get into comics again but it's so...difficult I guess?

    lionheart_m on
    3DS: 5069-4122-2826 / WiiU: Lionheart-m / PSN: lionheart_m / Steam: lionheart_jg
  • SolarSolar Registered User regular
    edited May 2011
    Well, someone pointed out that if you look at the re-birth of comics in the silver age (1958 was the new flash or something, the first big shake up in DC comics) it's about 25 years until the crisis. Which was now 25 years ago.

    But I think that's a coincidence. I really don't see a big crisis like event happening to reboot everything.

    Although I bet that's exactly what people were saying in 86 as well...

    Solar on
  • MunchMunch Registered User regular
    edited May 2011
    I imagine this will be another One Year Later kind of thing, with books restarting with fresh jumping on points.

    edit: Also, here's something I've been thinking about since yesterday, when I saw comics blogger David Brothers lamenting the appalling sales figures for the first and second issues of Xombi, and readers' failure to respond to something new and different.

    I have to say, I feel pretty plugged into the whole comics scene, news, etc. but I didn't feel compelled to pick Xombi up, at all. Because, here's what I knew about it: Frazier Irving was drawing it, and it was based on an old Milestone property. Both good things, but neither would compel me to drop $2.99 on a book.

    I have similar complaints about a lot of the new series DC's launched over the years. Maybe it's not fair, but I feel like most of the time, DC's just sort of throwing books out into the ether, with no lead-up or attempt to explain what niche the book will be filling, the high concept behind it, etc. To me, that shit's important. You can have characters I like, and creators I like, working on a book, but without a cool idea to drive the monthly stories, I just don't give a shit.

    For example, in the past few years DC's launched stuff like their Pulp universe titles, Red Circle reinventions, Freedom Fighters, the new direction for Justice League of America, and JSA All-Stars. But, I feel like DC never bothered to explain what the point of those books were, outside of, "Hey, aren't these guys cool?"

    I knew Freedom Fighters had the Freedom Fighters in it, and Dave Johnson doing covers. Good for them, but what's the story? I read interviews, but it was all just the usual teases of a dark conspiracy against the heroes, blah blah blah.

    The Pulp stuff? I read that Batman-with-guns preview that DC kept running in all their books for a while, but it told me nothing about what the story was going to be. Phil Noto's art is pretty, but again, I'm not going to plunk down a couple bucks just because the art's nice.

    Red Circle? I knew it was revamping Archie characters, who'd previously been revamped in the !mpact line I read as a kid, but that was about it. Once I learned what the plot of The Web was (a rich guy leasing super-suits to people that wanted to be superheroes, creating a world-wide network of operatives), I thought it sounded pretty awesome, so I bought it!

    DC really needs to learn the value of a cool high concept. The simple idea of the Doom Patrol living on an island of mad scientists, and serving as its resident superheroes/strike-team, was all it took to convince me to buy that book. The concept of the Suicide Squad in the Marvel Universe, is why I buy Jeff Parker's Thunderbolts. A police officer that gets psychic impression from anything he eats, is why I'm buying Chew. These are all cool, simple ideas that have immediate appeal to me.

    Hell, I still don't know what exactly Flashpoint's all about. I know it's an alternate universe, but I don't know why. Is it because Barry Allen was never the Flash? Is Zoom fucking things up? Why's everyone seem to be acting like jerks? Contrast that with something like House of M (Wanda made mutants the predominant species on the planet) or Age of Apocalypse (Apocalypse conquered the world).

    Munch on
  • SolarSolar Registered User regular
    edited May 2011
    That would be cool, in many ways

    Like how the restarting of New Avengers was a good jumping on point a few years back, and the reboot following Siege was another one. Jumping on points in serialised Superhero comics are a good thing, I think, as long as they don't happen too often.

    Solar on
  • XaquinXaquin Right behind you!Registered User regular
    edited May 2011
    I'm really surprised they did that to Superman. I mean, for years and years and years (hell, the better part of a century) Superman was America's Hero. You could lump him in with Baseball and Apple Pie and he'd fit like a glove.

    I get it's just fiction and a made up character, but it's a character that has been with us as who he is for a very long time.

    guess I'm just kind of sad about it.

    another sad thing is that if they ever try to take it back, they'll look like bigger idiots for doing it in the first place

    Xaquin on
  • MunchMunch Registered User regular
    edited May 2011
    If you're talking about Superman renouncing his citizenship, don't worry about it. That was an inconsequential story, that won't impact a single thing, ever. File that away under Continuity That Doesn't Matter, along with Superman knee-capping bank robbers with his heat vision, making a porn film with Big Barda, and spanking Lois Lane.

    In other news, DC continues to be a paragon of restraint and class.
    5x67fo.jpg

    Munch on
  • Robos A Go GoRobos A Go Go Registered User regular
    edited May 2011
    What the fuck is that?

    Robos A Go Go on
  • MunchMunch Registered User regular
    edited May 2011
    That's a double-amputee Lex Luthor.

    It's the first page from an upcoming DCU Online comic.

    I know it doesn't "matter," in terms of continuity, but it cracks me up that they'd make that the opening splash page for one of their comics.

    Munch on
This discussion has been closed.