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Pre Fight Debate Thread: Brackets 19 & 20

24

Posts

  • BlankspaceBlankspace __BANNED USERS regular
    edited December 2006
    Judas wrote:
    I'm going with Ultron (duh) and Despero for this fight.

    Just out of curiosity for those of you more familiar with the DC side of comics, how the hell does anyone actually beat Despero? I mean, forget about even defeating him, how do you even make him go away?

    Super strength, super mental abilities, and Superman level invulnerability? That sounds unbalanced as fuck.
    It took Johnny Sorrow, a guy who's face kills anyone who sees it, to excorsize his spirit from Lex Luthors body.

    Blankspace on
    SIG.gif
  • CyberJackalCyberJackal Registered User regular
    edited December 2006
    Spectre-x wrote:
    Malkor wrote:
    Really? About 5000x stronger?

    Well, it's not a scientific guess, but Despero and Superman and the like are pretty much as durable as adamantium.

    I would think a place like Warworld would have some more advanced (and hence, more durable) metals on it.

    CyberJackal on
  • Mai-KeroMai-Kero Registered User regular
    edited December 2006
    Has anyone ever actually broken adamantium? Besides masters of magnetism?

    Mai-Kero on
  • Jolly-RogerJolly-Roger Registered User regular
    edited December 2006
    Well then, no contest. Despero wins.
    Unless of course, the helmet prevents that.

    Jolly-Roger on
  • JudasJudas Registered User regular
    edited December 2006
    Mai-Kero wrote:
    Has anyone ever actually broken adamantium? Besides masters of magnetism?

    The Hulk, in the Ultimates universe. In the 616...I have no idea.

    Judas on
    Hard pressed on my right. My center is yielding. Impossible to maneuver.
    Situation excellent. I am attacking.

    - General Ferdinand Foch
  • Spectre-xSpectre-x Rating: AWESOME YESRegistered User regular
    edited December 2006
    Well then, no contest. Despero wins.
    Unless of course, the helmet prevents that.

    Yes, but, you know

    mind bullets helmet pew pew pew

    Spectre-x on
  • Spectre-xSpectre-x Rating: AWESOME YESRegistered User regular
    edited December 2006
    Spectre-x wrote:
    Malkor wrote:
    Really? About 5000x stronger?

    Well, it's not a scientific guess, but Despero and Superman and the like are pretty much as durable as adamantium.

    I would think a place like Warworld would have some more advanced (and hence, more durable) metals on it.

    Not as durable as Adamantium, though.

    Spectre-x on
  • Jolly-RogerJolly-Roger Registered User regular
    edited December 2006
    Spectre-x wrote:
    Well then, no contest. Despero wins.
    Unless of course, the helmet prevents that.

    Yes, but, you know

    mind bullets helmet pew pew pew
    But mind bullets only work on yaks from distances of up to 200 yards, at least Wonderboys mind bullets.

    Jolly-Roger on
  • HenslerHensler Registered User regular
    edited December 2006
    Spectre-x wrote:
    Spectre-x wrote:
    Malkor wrote:
    Really? About 5000x stronger?

    Well, it's not a scientific guess, but Despero and Superman and the like are pretty much as durable as adamantium.

    I would think a place like Warworld would have some more advanced (and hence, more durable) metals on it.

    Not as durable as Adamantium, though.

    Why?

    Hensler on
  • The LuggageThe Luggage Registered User regular
    edited December 2006
    Judas wrote:
    Just out of curiosity for those of you more familiar with the DC side of comics, how the hell does anyone actually beat Despero? I mean, forget about even defeating him, how do you even make him go away?

    He's designed to go up against the majority, if not the entirety, of the Justice League.

    The Luggage on
    Interminable
  • ScooterScooter Registered User regular
    edited December 2006
    Hensler wrote:
    Spectre-x wrote:
    Spectre-x wrote:
    Malkor wrote:
    Really? About 5000x stronger?

    Well, it's not a scientific guess, but Despero and Superman and the like are pretty much as durable as adamantium.

    I would think a place like Warworld would have some more advanced (and hence, more durable) metals on it.

    Not as durable as Adamantium, though.

    Why?

    Adamantium is as high as the dial goes. It's unbreakable by anyone/thing that can't just break anything automatically.

    Scooter on
  • Mai-KeroMai-Kero Registered User regular
    edited December 2006
    Hensler wrote:
    Spectre-x wrote:
    Spectre-x wrote:
    Malkor wrote:
    Really? About 5000x stronger?

    Well, it's not a scientific guess, but Despero and Superman and the like are pretty much as durable as adamantium.

    I would think a place like Warworld would have some more advanced (and hence, more durable) metals on it.

    Not as durable as Adamantium, though.

    Why?

    Because adamantium isn't like other metals.

    I don't know really. It's shown doing all sorts of crazy shit, though. Re: The only thing that's been able to punch through Hisako's armor, being there after wolverine is hit by nitro on drugs explosions, etc etc.

    Mai-Kero on
  • ExcessiveKnifeExcessiveKnife Registered User regular
    edited December 2006
    Mai-Kero wrote:
    Actually, can vibranium even be controlled by magnetokinisis?

    If you accept the Wiki entry on Vibranium as the truth and the events in Marvel Zombies as canon enough to count, then yes; during his flight from the zombie horde he uses his powers to throw Cap's shield around, and I believe even to take off part of Cap's skull.
    Spectre-x wrote:
    And as was the case with Superman and Captain Marvel, Despero's heart muscles are so strong that Xorn wouldn't really be able to stop his blood from flowing.

    He doesn't need to stop the flow, nor does he need to target the entire bloodstream; if he focuses on the iron content of the final 1-3 feet of blood vessel leading up to the heart, and uses the full force of his power to shove the iron against the common flow, the cavitation could trigger an irregularity in heart beat (i.e. ventricular fibrilation), if not a full blown collapse of one of the upper chambers.

    In this case, the super strength/ durability of his heart is not an advantage; unless he has sufficient control of the subconscoius electrical activity of his body to correct for the disparity between the signals being sent to his heart and what the heart is actually doing and has sufficient medical training/ knowledge to realise what us happening, the old Despero runs afoul of the #1 killer in the industrialized world: cardiac arrest.

    ExcessiveKnife on
    The mad beeper is on the loose!
  • DasUberEdwardDasUberEdward Registered User regular
    edited December 2006
    He doesn't need to stop the flow, nor does he need to target the entire bloodstream; if he focuses on the iron content of the final 1-3 feet of blood vessel leading up to the heart, and uses the full force of his power to shove the iron against the common flow, the cavitation could trigger an irregularity in heart beat (i.e. ventricular fibrilation), if not a full blown collapse of one of the upper chambers.

    In this case, the super strength/ durability of his heart is not an advantage; unless he has sufficient control of the subconscoius electrical activity of his body to correct for the disparity between the signals being sent to his heart and what the heart is actually doing and has sufficient medical training/ knowledge to realise what us happening, the old Despero runs afoul of the #1 killer in the industrialized world: cardiac arrest.
    So then, has it been proven that Xorn can be that precise?

    DasUberEdward on
    steam_sig.png
  • BlankspaceBlankspace __BANNED USERS regular
    edited December 2006
    He doesn't need to stop the flow, nor does he need to target the entire bloodstream; if he focuses on the iron content of the final 1-3 feet of blood vessel leading up to the heart, and uses the full force of his power to shove the iron against the common flow, the cavitation could trigger an irregularity in heart beat (i.e. ventricular fibrilation), if not a full blown collapse of one of the upper chambers.

    In this case, the super strength/ durability of his heart is not an advantage; unless he has sufficient control of the subconscoius electrical activity of his body to correct for the disparity between the signals being sent to his heart and what the heart is actually doing and has sufficient medical training/ knowledge to realise what us happening, the old Despero runs afoul of the #1 killer in the industrialized world: cardiac arrest.
    So then, has it been proven that Xorn can be that precise?
    Despero is an alien lifeform. How would we have any idea how his body works? Does he even have a heart?

    Blankspace on
    SIG.gif
  • deadonthestreetdeadonthestreet Registered User regular
    edited December 2006
    He doesn't need to stop the flow, nor does he need to target the entire bloodstream; if he focuses on the iron content of the final 1-3 feet of blood vessel leading up to the heart, and uses the full force of his power to shove the iron against the common flow, the cavitation could trigger an irregularity in heart beat (i.e. ventricular fibrilation), if not a full blown collapse of one of the upper chambers.

    In this case, the super strength/ durability of his heart is not an advantage; unless he has sufficient control of the subconscoius electrical activity of his body to correct for the disparity between the signals being sent to his heart and what the heart is actually doing and has sufficient medical training/ knowledge to realise what us happening, the old Despero runs afoul of the #1 killer in the industrialized world: cardiac arrest.
    So then, has it been proven that Xorn can be that precise?
    He used nanosentinals in Xavier's bloodstream to fuse his spine and allow him to walk again.

    So, yeah.

    deadonthestreet on
  • Caveman PawsCaveman Paws Registered User regular
    edited December 2006
    Hmm... As much as I dislike Xorn Despero is sounding just as lame. Regardless of who wins the match we are stuck with a douche bag... Xorn it is then.

    Caveman Paws on
  • Regina FongRegina Fong Allons-y, Alonso Registered User regular
    edited December 2006
  • CharmyCharmy Registered User regular
    edited December 2006
    jeepguy wrote:
    why do we have xorn and not mags? :(

    Doom's punishment for Magneto being in the hero tournament.

    Okay, everyone, listen up. The Xorn/Despero match is now a pie-baking contest. Each contestant has two hours and infinite ingredients to use. The winner will be decided on the basis of quanity, quality, and presentation of the pies.

    I figure this is the best way to avoid complaints that the fighters powers are lame.

    Charmy on
    I have a twitter.
  • The Muffin ManThe Muffin Man Registered User regular
    edited December 2006
    Can Despero use mind control to make Xorn put too much of any one ingredient and ruin it?

    Likewise, can Xorn cause Despero's oven to fail halfway through baking?

    The Muffin Man on
  • Caveman PawsCaveman Paws Registered User regular
    edited December 2006
    Are there any illegal ingredients? Or for that matter, illegal "add-on's" ala the movie "Revenge of the Nerds" where they put pornographic images on the bottoms of the pie plates?

    Xorn would totally do that.

    Caveman Paws on
  • Spectre-xSpectre-x Rating: AWESOME YESRegistered User regular
    edited December 2006
    In a pie-baking contest, Despero would instantly absorb all the pie-baking knowledge of the earth's most skilled chefs and proceed to create a pie so incredibly ultimate that Xorn will break down into tears at the very sight of it and give up willingly and gladly if it means that the man who could create such a thing of pure beauty would advance.

    He doesn't need to stop the flow, nor does he need to target the entire bloodstream; if he focuses on the iron content of the final 1-3 feet of blood vessel leading up to the heart, and uses the full force of his power to shove the iron against the common flow, the cavitation could trigger an irregularity in heart beat (i.e. ventricular fibrilation), if not a full blown collapse of one of the upper chambers.

    In this case, the super strength/ durability of his heart is not an advantage; unless he has sufficient control of the subconscoius electrical activity of his body to correct for the disparity between the signals being sent to his heart and what the heart is actually doing and has sufficient medical training/ knowledge to realise what us happening, the old Despero runs afoul of the #1 killer in the industrialized world: cardiac arrest.

    And here is where the flaw in that plan lies: Xorn would have to do this while being physically if not mentally assaulted by Despero, who can beat up the entire Justice League on his own. I very much doubt Xorn would be able to hold his concentration long enough to cause any kind of real effect on Despero when Despero only needs to think in order to rip all of Xorn's limbs off and beat him to death with them.

    Spectre-x on
  • MarathonMarathon Registered User regular
    edited December 2006
    Can Xorn put up the ol Magneto shield thingamajig?

    Marathon on
  • CyberJackalCyberJackal Registered User regular
    edited December 2006
    Spectre-x wrote:
    Spectre-x wrote:
    Malkor wrote:
    Really? About 5000x stronger?

    Well, it's not a scientific guess, but Despero and Superman and the like are pretty much as durable as adamantium.

    I would think a place like Warworld would have some more advanced (and hence, more durable) metals on it.

    Not as durable as Adamantium, though.

    I'm pretty dubious of the "as durable as adamantium" claim, but even if it were true I think the idea that a barrage of flying metal could do nothing to Despero is bullshit. Superman can tell you that he may not have been killed yet by someone throwing a truck at him, but it sure as hell still hurts.

    Not that I'm even saying Xorn will win, when pitted against the apparently god-like Despero, but I'm getting a little tired of all your hyperbole.

    CyberJackal on
  • Mai-KeroMai-Kero Registered User regular
    edited December 2006
    The problem with what could hurt who is that comics are ridiculously inconsistant. Superheroes get hit with trucks and stuff all the time and either get knocked back or flinch, but then, when fighting people who can move moons, aren't instantly vaporized.

    Mai-Kero on
  • Spectre-xSpectre-x Rating: AWESOME YESRegistered User regular
    edited December 2006
    Well, it's a free internet, of course, and you can have your own opinions, but that doesn't mean you'd be right.

    Superman getting hit by a truck would not hurt. Why? Because getting shot by a tank doesn't hurt. Getting shot with miniguns and armour-piercing rounds doesn't hurt. Smashing through walls and huge, armoured doors doesn't hurt.

    If getting hit by a truck causes him pain, he's not invulnerable enough to get punched through buildings and mountains and hit with nukes and stuff.

    I also didn't say that Despero or Superman were as durable as adamantium, I said that they were almost as durable as adamantium. They're certainly not completely invulnerable, but they're, generally speaking, much and much and much more durable than pretty much every kind of metal but adamantium.

    Spectre-x on
  • Mai-KeroMai-Kero Registered User regular
    edited December 2006
    Wait, is adamantium literally indestructable?

    Mai-Kero on
  • RonnieWooWoo!RonnieWooWoo! Registered User regular
    edited December 2006
    Is it wrong of me to want Despero to win here just so we get to see Ultron ruin his shit in the next round?

    RonnieWooWoo! on
    Woo!
  • Spectre-xSpectre-x Rating: AWESOME YESRegistered User regular
    edited December 2006
    Mai-Kero wrote:
    Wait, is adamantium literally indestructable?

    Pure adamantium can only be damaged or destroyed by molecular manipulation or cosmic levels of power.

    Or Antarctic vibranium, which pretty much falls into the first category.

    Is it wrong of me to want Despero to win here just so we get to see Ultron ruin his shit in the next round?

    No. I very much want to see Ultron fight Despero, too.

    Spectre-x on
  • GoodCitizenGoodCitizen Registered User regular
    edited December 2006
    Spectre-x wrote:
    In a pie-baking contest, Despero would instantly absorb all the pie-baking knowledge of the earth's most skilled chefs and proceed to create a pie so incredibly ultimate that Xorn will break down into tears at the very sight of it and give up willingly and gladly if it means that the man who could create such a thing of pure beauty would advance.

    Can you cite an instance when a resident of war-world has made delicious pies? They aren't on earth, remember.

    Xorn for Iron-Chef... uh, I mean, Xorn advances!

    GoodCitizen on
    Benjamin Franklin used foil covered window glass to create a capacitor. He then attempted to kill a turkey with the stored charge. Instead, he knocked himself out. Franklin later wrote, "I tried to kill a turkey but nearly succeeded in killing a goose."
  • werehippywerehippy Registered User regular
    edited December 2006
    Spectre-x wrote:
    Superman getting hit by a truck would not hurt. Why? Because getting shot by a tank doesn't hurt. Getting shot with miniguns and armour-piercing rounds doesn't hurt. Smashing through walls and huge, armoured doors doesn't hurt.

    The hell? Weren't you the person who ranted for pages and pages than Zoom could destroy Nimrod with normal human punches? How exactly is that different from Superman getting worn down by getting repeatedly smashed with a truck/metal object? Beyond the fact the DC and Marvel characters are switched this time around, of course.

    werehippy on
  • CyberJackalCyberJackal Registered User regular
    edited December 2006
    I was going to make a response, but then it suddenly occurred to me what a colossal waste of time that would be.

    CyberJackal on
  • RonnieWooWoo!RonnieWooWoo! Registered User regular
    edited December 2006
    werehippy wrote:
    The hell? Weren't you the person who ranted for pages and pages than Zoom could destroy Nimrod with normal human punches? How exactly is that different from Superman getting worn down by getting repeatedly smashed with a truck/metal object? Beyond the fact the DC and Marvel characters are switched this time around, of course.

    Despero definitely seems like one of DC's patented "Fuck you, I'm invincible" characters. What do you expect?

    RonnieWooWoo! on
    Woo!
  • Mai-KeroMai-Kero Registered User regular
    edited December 2006
    werehippy wrote:
    Spectre-x wrote:
    Superman getting hit by a truck would not hurt. Why? Because getting shot by a tank doesn't hurt. Getting shot with miniguns and armour-piercing rounds doesn't hurt. Smashing through walls and huge, armoured doors doesn't hurt.

    The hell? Weren't you the person who ranted for pages and pages than Zoom could destroy Nimrod with normal human punches? How exactly is that different from Superman getting worn down by getting repeatedly smashed with a truck/metal object? Beyond the fact the DC and Marvel characters are switched this time around, of course.

    If superman was hit by a truck millions of times, he would, concievably, be hurt by it.

    Zoom punching Nimrod billions of times would have a similiar effect.

    Mai-Kero on
  • Spectre-xSpectre-x Rating: AWESOME YESRegistered User regular
    edited December 2006
    werehippy wrote:
    Spectre-x wrote:
    Superman getting hit by a truck would not hurt. Why? Because getting shot by a tank doesn't hurt. Getting shot with miniguns and armour-piercing rounds doesn't hurt. Smashing through walls and huge, armoured doors doesn't hurt.

    The hell? Weren't you the person who ranted for pages and pages than Zoom could destroy Nimrod with normal human punches? How exactly is that different from Superman getting worn down by getting repeatedly smashed with a truck/metal object? Beyond the fact the DC and Marvel characters are switched this time around, of course.

    Yes, but see, Zoom hits things a million plus times in less than one second. There is a very very big difference between getting hit millions of times in one second and getting hit twice every second by something you can barely feel because you are so god damned tough a concrete column might as well be made of feathers because seriously it is not going to hurt you at all. Oh, and there's the fact that Nimrod is not even close to being as strong or tough as Superman, who can wrestle Asmodel, big boss of the heavenly host, to a standstill while Superman was in a weaker energy-based form.

    There is also the thing about Zoom moving at near lightspeed and the fact that they were in the fucking FLASH MUSEUM with literally dozens of weapons Zoom knows how to use, not to mention the hundreds upon hundreds of other objects there that would make extremely effective projectiles and whatnot.

    And there was the thing about Zoom constantly moving faster than Nimrod can even compute things at, seeing as Zoom easily moves faster than even the Flash can percieve things. And if he can create a sonic boom I'm guessing he can do the infinite mass punch thing due to comic book pseudoscience.

    I ranted for pages and pages that Zoom would destroy Nimrod with a combination of moving too fucking fast for Nimrod to react and adapt to, and with the fight being in the fucking Flash museum which Zoom knows inside and out and which is FULL OF WEAPONS.


    The only way Xorn is going to hurt Despero by pelting him with metal is if Despero just stands there and takes it without ever attempting to fight back in any way for an hour at the very least.

    But Despero will be fighting back, and dodging the metal, and teleporting away from it, and hitting Xorn with beams of psychokinetic force that can injure even Superman, and getting closer to Xorn until he gets close enough to rip him in half and eat his corpse.

    Spectre-x on
  • Bloods EndBloods End Blade of Tyshalle Punch dimensionRegistered User regular
    edited December 2006
    Spectre is a very angry man.

    Constantly right, but very angry.

    Bloods End on
  • The Muffin ManThe Muffin Man Registered User regular
    edited December 2006
    Spectre-x wrote:
    Mai-Kero wrote:
    Wait, is adamantium literally indestructable?

    Pure adamantium can only be damaged or destroyed by molecular manipulation or cosmic levels of power.

    Or Antarctic vibranium, which pretty much falls into the first category.

    Is it wrong of me to want Despero to win here just so we get to see Ultron ruin his shit in the next round?

    No. I very much want to see Ultron fight Despero, too.

    I'm torn. I want Despero to lose, but that means Xorn vs Ultron, and all Xorn will do is piss off Ultron for an hour.

    I'd much rather see a fight than Xorn holding Ultron just out of reach and praying he can't move fast enough to escape his powers and rip his head off. It'd be like Kid Flash/Impulse vs Thor. "Oh god I hope he doesn't react just fast enough to send my ass to fucking Krypton."

    The Muffin Man on
  • CyberJackalCyberJackal Registered User regular
    edited December 2006
    Bloods End wrote:
    Spectre is a very angry man.

    Constantly right, but very angry.

    Not really. He's contending that basically no metal object in the DC universe can hurt the top-tier individuals of that universe. Every robot and cyborg Superman has ever fought would contend otherwise.

    CyberJackal on
  • Spectre-xSpectre-x Rating: AWESOME YESRegistered User regular
    edited December 2006
    Bloods End wrote:
    Spectre is a very angry man.

    Constantly right, but very angry.

    Not really. He's contending that basically no metal object in the DC universe can hurt the top-tier individuals of that universe. Every robot and cyborg Superman has ever fought would contend otherwise.

    Nope, sorry, I am right and you are putting words into my mouth.

    The robots and cyborgs Superman has fought were made of sturdier stuff than your average truck, and they also hit him with quite a bit more force than most trucks.

    Trucks are mostly empty space, you see, they are largely air, and guys like Superman literally tear through trucks like normal people tear through tissue paper.

    Those robots and cyborgs are much more akin to thick, laminated cardboard tubes as opposed to the loose tissue paper trucks.

    Spectre-x on
  • DasUberEdwardDasUberEdward Registered User regular
    edited December 2006
    Spectre-x wrote:
    werehippy wrote:
    Spectre-x wrote:
    Superman getting hit by a truck would not hurt. Why? Because getting shot by a tank doesn't hurt. Getting shot with miniguns and armour-piercing rounds doesn't hurt. Smashing through walls and huge, armoured doors doesn't hurt.

    The hell? Weren't you the person who ranted for pages and pages than Zoom could destroy Nimrod with normal human punches? How exactly is that different from Superman getting worn down by getting repeatedly smashed with a truck/metal object? Beyond the fact the DC and Marvel characters are switched this time around, of course.

    Yes, but see, Zoom hits things a million plus times in less than one second. There is a very very big difference between getting hit millions of times in one second and getting hit twice every second by something you can barely feel because you are so god damned tough a concrete column might as well be made of feathers because seriously it is not going to hurt you at all. Oh, and there's the fact that Nimrod is not even close to being as strong or tough as Superman, who can wrestle Asmodel, big boss of the heavenly host, to a standstill while Superman was in a weaker energy-based form.

    There is also the thing about Zoom moving at near lightspeed and the fact that they were in the fucking FLASH MUSEUM with literally dozens of weapons Zoom knows how to use, not to mention the hundreds upon hundreds of other objects there that would make extremely effective projectiles and whatnot.

    And there was the thing about Zoom constantly moving faster than Nimrod can even compute things at, seeing as Zoom easily moves faster than even the Flash can percieve things. And if he can create a sonic boom I'm guessing he can do the infinite mass punch thing due to comic book pseudoscience.

    I ranted for pages and pages that Zoom would destroy Nimrod with a combination of moving too fucking fast for Nimrod to react and adapt to, and with the fight being in the fucking Flash museum which Zoom knows inside and out and which is FULL OF WEAPONS.


    The only way Xorn is going to hurt Despero by pelting him with metal is if Despero just stands there and takes it without ever attempting to fight back in any way for an hour at the very least.

    But Despero will be fighting back, and dodging the metal, and teleporting away from it, and hitting Xorn with beams of psychokinetic force that can injure even Superman, and getting closer to Xorn until he gets close enough to rip him in half and eat his corpse.
    Whoa whoa whoa. Computers can predict the location of sub atomic particles, so I don't think predicting where someone who moves really effing fast will end up would be a problem after a few quick adjustments. The physics of movement end up being a hinderance for zoom here unless of course he rewrites the laws of the universe (which a computer knows very very well)

    Also for the Despero and Xorn thing it's agreed that Xorn will lose if he tries to attack Despero in anyway from the outside. The question at hand is would any internal attacks work against him.

    DasUberEdward on
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