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How Bad a Job Shouldn't you Take?
Taramoor
StorytellerRegistered User regular
StorytellerRegistered User regular
Here's an interesting question I find myself running into.
I am married, but have been unemployed for coming up on a year now. I've been in the mentality of "any job is a good job" for at least the last few months, but now I find myself confronting a situation where that may not be the case.
My wife pulls in an income of around $55k a year, which is enough for us to survive, but student loan payments, insurance, bills, food, Dog, etc. reduce us more often than not to a paycheck-to-paycheck state of affairs.
So, after submitting my 571st resume/job application (I keep records) I have a job offer from Nintendo of America to work as a game tester.
Situation:
-I live approximately 30 miles away from the location of the job. Traffic on I-90, 405, and 520 toward the Bellevue/Redmond area is usually pretty hellish in the mornings.
-My car gets about 20 miles to the gallon
-If I arrive after 8am, I will most likely be fired.
-Structured bathroom breaks. Trips to the bathroom are only permitted once every two and a half hours.
-Job pays $10.00 an hour, with the possibility of going up to $11.00. No benefits, sick days, holidays, or vacation until I reach 1000 hours worked.
-Advancement is a pipe dream meant for fools and high school kids.
-I have no marketable skills.
Now, I have four years experience as a tester at Microsoft, I was treated well there and I enjoyed going to work. I also made around $20/hour, and it was a more relaxed atmosphere overall (we were allowed to use the internet on breaks, for example). I guess it was kind of a shock when the interview made it relatively clear that Nintendo just plain didn't trust their employees. Don't get me wrong, testing at Microsoft wasn't a dream job, but neither was it a hellhole police state.
So, after accounting for gas my average take home total (assuming 40 hours a week, no overtime) would be in the neighborhood of 140 dollars a week.
My wife has advised me not to take the job, since it's not worth the time and effort it would take to bring home $500 a month, especially since from a simple orientation it looks like all the horror stories I'd heard about working at Nintendo are true. With the holidays coming up, local retail places (Barnes and Noble, Gamestop) should be hiring, and they're closer to my house with nearly the same pay.
So, is the job so terrible I shouldn't take it? Or is any job a good job? How bad would a job have to be before you'd choose being unemployed over taking the job?
I am married, but have been unemployed for coming up on a year now. I've been in the mentality of "any job is a good job" for at least the last few months, but now I find myself confronting a situation where that may not be the case.
My wife pulls in an income of around $55k a year, which is enough for us to survive, but student loan payments, insurance, bills, food, Dog, etc. reduce us more often than not to a paycheck-to-paycheck state of affairs.
So, after submitting my 571st resume/job application (I keep records) I have a job offer from Nintendo of America to work as a game tester.
Situation:
-I live approximately 30 miles away from the location of the job. Traffic on I-90, 405, and 520 toward the Bellevue/Redmond area is usually pretty hellish in the mornings.
-My car gets about 20 miles to the gallon
-If I arrive after 8am, I will most likely be fired.
-Structured bathroom breaks. Trips to the bathroom are only permitted once every two and a half hours.
-Job pays $10.00 an hour, with the possibility of going up to $11.00. No benefits, sick days, holidays, or vacation until I reach 1000 hours worked.
-Advancement is a pipe dream meant for fools and high school kids.
-I have no marketable skills.
Now, I have four years experience as a tester at Microsoft, I was treated well there and I enjoyed going to work. I also made around $20/hour, and it was a more relaxed atmosphere overall (we were allowed to use the internet on breaks, for example). I guess it was kind of a shock when the interview made it relatively clear that Nintendo just plain didn't trust their employees. Don't get me wrong, testing at Microsoft wasn't a dream job, but neither was it a hellhole police state.
So, after accounting for gas my average take home total (assuming 40 hours a week, no overtime) would be in the neighborhood of 140 dollars a week.
My wife has advised me not to take the job, since it's not worth the time and effort it would take to bring home $500 a month, especially since from a simple orientation it looks like all the horror stories I'd heard about working at Nintendo are true. With the holidays coming up, local retail places (Barnes and Noble, Gamestop) should be hiring, and they're closer to my house with nearly the same pay.
So, is the job so terrible I shouldn't take it? Or is any job a good job? How bad would a job have to be before you'd choose being unemployed over taking the job?
Taramoor on
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I say that nothing can be that bad for at least a good month or so. Give it a shot. At least you can say that you used to work for Nintendo. THeir rules can't forbid you from quitting.
If this is in fact the case, you might not have a choice. six month hold on benefits blows. bird in the hand and all that.
Games: Ad Astra Per Phalla | Choose Your Own Phalla
I'd think it would be good to get you out, contribute to the household a little, maybe it kicks your ass in gear to get marketable skills so can pick up a better gig down the road. It's a placeholder job till you find something better - just remember that it's till you find something better, not till something better comes along.
At this point in my life, if I were to suddenly lose my job, I don't think that I would take a job matching that description, but I do have a degree and almost four years' experience at this job to fall back on. For you, I'd suggest finding a temp agency and getting work through them. They get good money for placing people in temp positions, and even more money if those people are made into full-time employees, so they do have some incentive to help you out.
I think this is very good advice
I mean, maybe the job is just horrid (and it sort of sounds like it is), but you can just walk away and leave it off your resume. Although, jesus how the hell does Nintendo fill tester positions when the economy is actually thriving? That sounds like it combines the low pay of traditional retailing with even more restrictions and less schedule flexibility and less benefits.
Honestly I considered posting this in H/A, but it's a personal decision that, no offense, I'd have trouble trusting to a bunch of guys on the internet, no matter how awesome they might be. I did, however, think it could create an interesting discussion and/or debate.
Re: the No Marketable Skills thing. I have four years experience testing Xbox and PC software. It's not something that fits much outside a niche market. I'm fortunate enough to live in the Seattle area where there a more than a couple game developers, but recent cutbacks have reduced the available jobs to a point where I'm having trouble finding them in order to apply for them, let alone reach the interview or job offer stage.
I've also found that while I learn quickly, type well, am not an idiot, and have some coding experience, they're not really interested if it's not something that comes from course study or without a certificate. I actually got shut down at a couple interviews because while I was experienced I didn't have the certifications to back it up. I just don't have the spare cash available to obtain them at the moment.
It doesn't help that the NDA's from my previous testing experience specifically state that I can't use my testing supervisors as references. (Also cost me a couple of jobs during the interview process).
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@TaramoorPlays
Taramoor on Youtube
I disagree entirely with this post.
Check with your local, state and federal governments for financial assistance in learning a trade skill. You'll make at least twice as much per hour while working as an apprentice, then much more after you've been certified. There's also going to be a high demand for tradesmen considering all the stimulus projects that are starting development, and that development is going to go on for years.
This.
That unpleasant of a job at $10.00/hr plus a long commute and no chance of advancement? What's the point? I mean it might be worth it for a month or something to try it out and see how it is in reality but who knows if they'll ask you to sign a non-compete and make it so you can't get a job at your old place if it becomes available.
At least if you're working at a Best Buy/supermarket/etc you won't have to drive as far, will likely have more flexible hours and you'll have less pressure since no one really expects you to bust your ass at most of those jobs.
But learning a skill would be good.
ed
Even better advice: Get in a union trade job. But that's often easier said than done.
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There was an interview in the local paper about a guy who put in four years of college and earned an accounting degree and he couldn't find work for eight months. Student loans took a bite out of him. He ended saying he wished he went to jail instead of college because he could have learned a useful trade behind bars.
He is an idiot then. Yes graduating with a college degree right now sucks a whole lot of ass, but you invest in a college degree for a RoI on lifetime earnings generally. In which case an accountant will probably surpass a tradesman without specialized skills and as a bonus won't generally have to worry about their career ending prematurely to injury. Not to mention that jail is hardly a romp in the park.
Financial Aid - you might qualify!
http://www.esd.wa.gov/findajob/jobtraining/financial-aid.php
How to become an Apprentice in a trade
http://lni.wa.gov/TradesLicensing/Apprenticeship/Become/default.asp
You, sir, make an interesting point and give me something to think about that is actually quite reasonable.
My Wife's father is an engineer, who insists on making repairs and generally doing work on the house whenever he's here (Meaning he tells me what to do and I end up building a deck or installing latticework) so I can see where you're coming from.
I will look into this further and see what develops.
twitch.tv/Taramoor
@TaramoorPlays
Taramoor on Youtube
This is the best advice.
Really, you're looking at sacrificing around 10-11 hours a day to a job that's going to bring you... what? $50 a day at best after taxes and gas? After which you'll still have no marketable skills?
Do you want to be 50 years old and in the same situation?
Get an IT certification or go to your community college and get an AA in something. Get a career started. That would be a much better use of your time.
the "no true scotch man" fallacy.
Edit: gah... beaten by 10 minutes...
And aside from you're disagreeing with me, I agree entirely with yours. That's another idea that could work. But what's wrong with taking the place-holder job in the meanwhile, or if he's not interested in learning a trade skill. Plumbing and carpentry are great lines of work, but not everyone is cut out to do those things. I know a few miserably successful electricians - they do just fine with the work but hate it so much. My impression from Taramoor's post was that he had no interest in things like that. How is having a marketable skill you hate any better than taking some wage slave gig you know is only temporary?
I see where you're coming from, but there are a lot more trades then construction-related trades.
There's also more than a college degree to getting hired.
Sure, but not when an accounting major is lamenting the economic prospects of his degree.
Edit: NM, misread, I'm not really sure what you were trying to say in the above, but it wasn't what I thought.
First of all, stop saying this. You have four years of experience working at Microsoft. That looks good on a resume, all by itself. Learn to market what you have and justify what you don't, instead of introducing doubts about your experience in other people.
If I was in your position, I'd either see about getting an IT degree from a community college. If you have a bachelor's from a four-year degree, you might even see about transferring your credits and getting a M.S. in computer science or a B.S. in business with an IT focus, as either of those degrees could be done in a reasonable amount of time with transfer credits. Financial aid is available to pay for classes and books.
There are any number of jobs at smaller companies, government agencies, non-profits, etc. that would look well on the Microsoft experience. Maybe this is because they don't fully understand what you did before, but that's their issue and, as long as you do well in the job, it's not even that.
As a bonus, there's a federal student loan public service forgiveness program that will forgive your loans if you work in the public or non-profit sectors for 10 years while making loan repayments.
I'm not so sure. Software testing is potentially pretty lucrative, and every developer needs it. Depending on the depth of your experience with that, you might be quite marketable.
I guess I should clarify. When someone considers hiring someone, there's more to it than their education.
A resume spans more than education. Things like work history and other skills come into play. Also how you present yourself in an interview. Being able to dress nicely does wonders. Short hair gives you an advantage in most cases. How you treat the interviewer and how you answer their questions.
We all know going in jeans and a t-shirt is terrible for an interview but there are more subtle skills that a lot of people lack.
The way you walk, talk, and dress will swing the interviewer's opinion wildly. Simple things like eye contact, solid handshakes, good posture, speaking clearly, and ironed clothes may get you a job.
The guy interviewed may very well be lacking.
Clothing matters much more than it should. In a lot of cases, an interviewer is going to have seen a lot of people and the smallest thing can bump you off the list.
If you can afford it, it's always worth it to either buy new clothes or take your existing outfit to a dry cleaner for the interview. A new pair of khakis, a conservative solid-color button shirt and a tie can be had for less than $100 if you go to an outlet-style place and dry cleaning the same will run less than $25.
Set aside a pair of interview shoes, something tasteful and leather is best, and don't wear them for anything else. Socks are cheap and worth buying nice ones, if you can.
Just something to consider. On top of that, I'd echo the folks who are telling you to learn a trade.
It's certainly a necessity, but not all testing positions are created equal. My company, for example, pays our testers $13/hr, but they're basically following a test plan that's been laid out for them, along with some basic "discovery" testing.
However, if you were to work your way into a position where you were WRITING said test plans, or even better, writing automated test scripts, you could definitely earn a very happy living doing that.
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Good god, man. You don't have a skills issue, you have an image problem.
You have four years experience doing Software Quality Assurance. Remember those words. You're not a "game tester", you're an "SQA Analyst."
You have skills that software development companies want, and there's a terrible shortage of people who are both qualified and willing to do QA. In Seattle, in particular, you should have no trouble finding a position that will pay you a reasonable, livable wage...
...that is, except in the games business. Games testers are utterly disposable, and make 1/3rd to 1/2 the amount someone doing QA for any other kind of company. If you're set on games testing, well, get ready to be dumped on while you try for that 1 in 100 break to make it out of the cattle pens.
Grab a copy of Cem Kaner's book on software testing, read it through a couple of times, revisit your resume and put your game testing experience into more grown-up words, give it a shot.
I never understand why interviewers are impressed with details. You'd think after a few months on the job, a person in human resources can spot the imitators from the real McCoy's, they can lead a conversation and stay two steps ahead, they can spot an error on a resume from a mile away and they can't be sweet talked. You walk into an interview with clean clothes and plucked eyelashes and the HR goon on the other side of the desk shouldn't be phased in the slightest - they've seen it all before.
Though I also have no idea how I would have held out for six more months as a busboy at the time.
Some interviewers are indeed like this. In fact, a lot of the small businesses I've interviewed for are exactly like this; because I'm being interviewed by the guy who started out working from his house and has spent a lot of time actually working with customers and being productive.
That said, most of the big corporations I've interviewed with are staffed by HR people who really have no idea what they're interviewing for because they have no experience with what I do. It doesn't matter how much experience I have with Exchange or Cisco or whatever, it's all Greek to them. So they substitute criteria that matter with criteria that I know: how well I dress and how well I answer bullshit lateral thinking exercises.
Moral of the story? If you want the big money you have to suck a little HR dick on the way in.
the "no true scotch man" fallacy.
I agree. Dressing up isn't fooling anyone. It just gives you an edge over Joe Shmoe who shows up in wrinkled clothes and grease under their fingernails. We're talking about a job market, a very competitive market.
If all things equal, who would you choose?
Second this. If HR is in a technical interview, they're probably just there to explain the benefits package.