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Physical reluctance / maybe asexuality? Lend me stories/wisdom
ProPatriaMori
Registered User regular
Registered User regular
I assure you sirs and ladies that righteous googling is occuring over here but if you would be so kind: lend me your personal experiences with regards to asexuality. I ask because I am beginning to suspect my present girlfriend is such and am pondering what implications may arise.
Things I am wondering fall generally under the following headings:
-Does asexuality include aversion to physical contact/expression in general?
-How does an asexual relationship develop over time--for example, what landmarks are there?
-Non-asexuals with asexual SOs: was/is it hard?
I may come up with more questions later and would appreciate your bringing up anything you feel is important.
For the moment I'm not going to go into specifics about my relationship but that is at least halfway because I'm having trouble writing coherently.
Things I am wondering fall generally under the following headings:
-Does asexuality include aversion to physical contact/expression in general?
-How does an asexual relationship develop over time--for example, what landmarks are there?
-Non-asexuals with asexual SOs: was/is it hard?
I may come up with more questions later and would appreciate your bringing up anything you feel is important.
For the moment I'm not going to go into specifics about my relationship but that is at least halfway because I'm having trouble writing coherently.
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I think it probably boils down to how averse this girl is to the idea of sex, and how willing you are to go without it. Sex is a really powerful bonding point for most couples so it can be rough.
I'm pretty sure this is the thread: http://forums.penny-arcade.com/showthread.php?t=86318&highlight=asexual
Let me note: I have no personal experience with asexuality. Should I be convincingly overruled by someone who does, I'll bow out of the discussion.
Convincingly.
I want to address the last question, because it's the most important one. To put it bluntly, either you need your balls surgically removed, or your SO needs to let you fuck other people. Human beings are sexual creatures; we need release, and we need it with other people. This is why the world's oldest profession is also the world's longest lasting profession. This is why perfectly sane politicians (John Edwards) and perfectly insane ones (Mark Sanford) alike are willing to ruin their reputations, relationships, and careers.
I would go on, but I believe that (a) if you don't believe me by now, you're not going to believe me until it's too late, and (b) Dan Savage has said it all better than I ever could.
I'm not gonna say "get out while you can" because you could very well work something out. Much weirder relationships have existed. But I will say that you should think of your sexuality as a right, not something you suffer from or control.
Fuck off. Seriously.
Look, there's intimacy issues here. I'm not suggesting it'll be easy, and I'm not suggesting we pretend that you'll not find it frustrating. But if you agree with the above poster, then bow out now before you do something stupid... because it's working up to justify you pressuring her, cheating on her, or just dumping her in a haze of self righteous sexual sense of entitlement. Seriously, "your sexuality is a RIGHT?" What the fuck man. And before you get all defensive and say that you weren't advocating any of what I've said, you can stop, because you're framing things to justify your ugly predilections.
Everyone that has a normal series of relationships in life meets someone for whom intimacy is an issue. All you can do is man up, lay off the pressure, and work on the trust. It might not work. The lack of intimacy might be an issue for you.
But please don't sit there and foster the sort of shit-kicking, woman-hating, self-loathing attitude that you're due some sex out of some sort of biological imperative that's supposed to override real human relationships.
If you really want to pursue things with her you should probably be able to talk about it, and in doing so, discuss what she's comfortable with and what makes her uncomfortable. It sounds as if, by the fact that you're asking about how it could proceed that you're still willing to make things work so take the next step and have a heart to heart with her about it.
naknaknaknaknak
You're assuming that this girl's lack of sexuality is due to some lack of trust.
While that very well may be the case here,
there are people out there who just biologically lack any major sex drive,
and if that is the case it is absolutely NOT correct for either individual to force themselves into a situation they aren't comfortable with.
If the sexual member of the relationship abstains they'll grow resentful, if the asexual gives in and has sex beyond their comfort level, they'll grow resentful.
I don't think admanb was legitimately suggesting either of the two options he posted, I think he was just trying to stress the point that it's incredibly difficult to create and sustain a healthy relationship between individuals with such wildly differing sexual desires.
and while I'm not suggesting that religion is wrong, considering any human's sexual desires as wrong or invalid because they interfere with other aspects of a relationship sounds like religious bullshit to me, sexual compatibility is a major factor in any modern relationship.
Fallingman's comments aside
I cannot imagine why you would want to pursue a romantic relationship with someone who doesn't want to have sex with you, for any reason, whether it be their opinion of you or their own personal hang-ups about sex.
one of two things is happening:
a) your girlfriend has some hang ups about sex
b) your girlfriend does not want to have sex
the former is rectifiable, the latter is not
if your idea of a healthy relationship includes sex and you don't want to deal with a relationship that doesn't have any in it, then just bail. it does not make you a woman-hating, self-loathing asshole as some people would have you believe, it makes you perfectly human and empowered.
I don't have any first-hand experience with asexuality but I wish you the best of luck. It'll take patience, communication and compromise to make it work but like someone said, weirder relationships have existed.
Holy shit can you say "reading into things"?
First, woman hating? Where did I say it would be any different if the ProPatriaMori was a woman? I was halfway to using gender-neutral terms until I realized he said "girlfriend." I don't even know what "shit-kicking" means, and I'm not sure how self-loathing is relevant.
Second, sex doesn't override human relationships, but it is a fundamental part of them. Physical intimacy is a huge part of a romantic relationship for almost everyone. Obviously it's not for PPM's girlfriend, but if it wasn't for him, or he wouldn't be posting this.
Third, I realize I'm not allowed to argue that I'm not saying he should "pressure her, cheat on her, or dump her" but I'm going to anyways. Or not. Well, sort of both. There is a few paths of minimal suffering here: (a) he dumps her, (b) she lets him sleep with other people, and he decides that will work. There is also a path of higher suffering: he denies the importance of his sexuality until he finds out he no longer can, either the easy way (realizing it) or the hard way (a drunken one-night stand.)
edit: a few things, since I realize there are some honest possible misinterpretations of my original post:
(1) I think breaking up with her in a calm, reasonable manner is a perfectly fine thing to do. My two options were exaggerated and rhetorical... though one was honestly viable.
(2) I don't think she has a responsibility to have sex with you. I really should've clarified this in my first post. I was defining sexuality as a right to say you shouldn't feel bad for breaking up with her over this, not to say that she should feel bad for not having sex. I believe asexuality is as biologically legitimate as homosexuality. But just as I wouldn't advise a relationship between a homosexual and a heterosexual, I wouldn't advise one between a sexual and an asexual.
A couple can be physically intimate without penises being inserted into vaginae. Sex is a fun and healthy activity that a couple can engage in to mutual enjoyment, but it isn't the sole definition of intimacy. Again, I stress, talk to her about what she is and isn't comfortable with and find out if that jives with what you are comfortable with. That is the simplest and most direct answer to your question, are you compatible?
naknaknaknaknak
I agree that sex is a part of a relationship. I actually believe that it's one of the most important aspects of it.
So, here's my story.
I went out with this girl. She made a point of saying that she wasn't a very sexual person. The first thing I did was let her know that it was fine with me - we'd been together a pretty short time, and were kind of "defining" our relationship. And once she felt comfortable, we started talking about it. She told me about her past relationships, and I told her about how I viewed sex. In the end, she felt comfortable enough to come to me, and we took it really slow. Then we talked about it again. We laughed, we discussed it, we did it again.
She actually found it really freeing, and discovered quite an appetite. And we had a really great relationship that I look back fondly on.
It might not be trust, but there can be a hundred different reasons. I know absolutely nothing about your relationship, and to be honest, if you're young and at an age where sex is still new or scary for her then it could be a really difficult time because you might be in quite different places with regards to how you view relationships.
So, don't feel guilty. Give her some time. You'll either grow together or you'll grow a
apart.
I agree that without my clarification it looks pretty ugly, but with it I think it's an arguable point, though easy to strawman. We could probably fill a thread with that argument though, so let's keep it out of here.
I hope this is the last clarification I have to add to my posts: my arguments only hold if she is well-and-truly asexual. The girl Fallingman dated is well removed from asexuality, and we could probably have a whole different set of arguments if that was the kind of girl you were with. If and only if she is, as you believe, clinically asexual do I stand by my argument.
Depends on how you read it, I suppose. I didn't read it as admanb saying he had sexual rights over the girl, but that he has a right to his own sexuality and shouldn't feel responsible for changing it to suit other people.
you have to understand it's a quote from a guy who gives advice to people who write in with letters like "I have been married to a woman for 20 years and we have sex about once every 5 years. I want more sex, but for 20 years she has told me no, she only fucks on Feb 29th" or "I have had a fetish for 20 years but my husband calls in our preacher to 'council' me whenever I bring it up" or "My partner thinks masturbating when he's not around is cheating on him"
"Sexuality" here is a noun that means "sexual identity" not "Euphemism for sex whenever he wants it"
ie, if one partner is the gatekeeper for sex with themselves, they have to understand that's not tatamount to being gatekeeper of the other person's entire sexuality. (The notion of being in charge of someone else's sexuality was what sparked your initial umbrage, right?) - the notion that you're going to repress someone's sexual nature by deep manipulation of your emotional connection with them isn't right either, and neither is a "compromise" where every once in a while she caves and reluctantly indulges him.
If you have a normal or higher libido, an asexual shouldn't hold you to a standard of celibacy. Maybe she puts on a thick rubber glove, closes her eyes, and jerks him off or maybe they form some kind of non-traditional relationship with another person, but sublimate your sex drive until she comes around is only good advice if you assume she's bullshitting about being asexual. (we'll include subconscious issues and issues of articulation of desire)
Which, you know, she could well be.
It's very cool that you found a way for a person to express her sexuality by being a little patient with her, and it is worth mentioning that a person who just SAYS they aren't very sexual may have a libido and just be shy or inexperienced or put off by preconceptions, but "asexuality" in this context is a reference to the notion of, essentially, a 3rd gender that truly doesn't have an interest in sex.
I host a podcast about movies.
Ditto. Way to project Fallingman, I'll call you if I come into any IMAX reels.
Can trade TF2 items or whatever else you're interested in. PM me.
This story is pointless, and has nothing to do with the op's situation.
It doesn't matter how much fucking time you give her, getting an asexual to have sex with you is like getting a homosexual man to have sex with a woman, except harder, because homosexuals at least have sex drives. It just isn't going to happen, short of rape.
The op needs to abandon this relationship if sex is important to him in any way. Do it now, because it's only going to be harder the longer you wait.
OP. I'm not trying to be rude and please don't take it as such. Have you talked to your GF about your relationship and how she feels about it. I am NOT Asexual, but, with my last BF there was a time that I was averse to sex big time. It was before I left him. I was adverse to sex because I didn't even like him anymore, let alone love him. Assuming she is asexual because she is not interested in sex may be a huge error.
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This. If your girlfriend is asexual (and right now it does seem to be if) continuing a relationship with her is inadvisable. Take a moment here to really and I mean really consider if sexual intimacy is something you can live without forever. If the answer is no then it's a deal breaker and sooner or later the relationship will fail, how long and painful that process is entirely up to you. I'm saying this as someone that doesn't actually place a great amount of value on sex but it isn't something I could do without in a committed loving relationship indefinitely.
The worst thing you could do here is attempt to embark on a lifetime of celibacy only to figure out months or years down the line it's making you miserable. I'm not saying a relationship between a sexual person and an asexual person is impossible I'm just saying long term it's pretty improbable.
Well, I can see the concern of "is this genuine asexuality or a communication/attraction problem" since the OP has sort of self-diagnosed her as asexual based on a perceived apathy toward sex.
I guess I find the notion of a monogamous non-sexual relationship very strange. If you're not engaged in any practice that need be monogamous, essentially you have someone placing monogamous constraints usually reserved for sexual relationships on companionship...I don't get that.
I host a podcast about movies.
You and me both, sir.
1) she is actually asexual. why put up with that?
2) she just doesn't want to have sex with you. why put up with that?
3) she has hang-ups about sex or her own body that prevents her from enjoying sex. why put up with that?
however great she is, you can find someone greater, as great, or slightly less great who will want to have sex with you. above, fallingman is a giant self-righteous oaf and admanb is perfectly correct: trying to suppress your own sexual desires to "fit in" socially and psychologically with a girl who is well outside the norm of sexual behavior is going to make you miserable. either you have a poly/open relationship or you date monogamously someone who values you.
Having an "asexual relationship" is just being someone's emotional support crutch or living through some nightmare notion of what a 14 year old thinks a serious relationship is - hand-holding and talking and whatever. yech. you owe yourself more.
I don't think it's that ugly. You do have a right to express your sexuality and you, the OP and everyone else deserves a relationship where they can be sexual. Fallingman, falling over himself to show how sensitive he is, interpreted "you have a right to your sexuality" to be, I think, "you can rape people" or "you can cheat on people", whereas you were arguing for having a consensual open relationship or leaving for greener pastures. I think it's really important that we help OP understand he doesn't owe this woman anything, and he doesn't need to feel guilty for being on better terms with his sexuality than she is. I'm worried he'll decide to stick with her to "fix" her or whatever and he'll end up emotionally damaged himself, or at least self-repressing in a very victorian way.
1) It's not that she's not interested in sex, it's that she's not interested in you. If this is the case, you should break up and not waste each other's time.
2) She is simply apprehensive about sex and will require a lot of work together as a couple to get into it.
3) She is indeed asexual, which you can do nothing to change, but that doesn't mean you can't have a relationship.
For people who are asexual it's not that they can't love another person, it's that love isn't necessarily physical. You can still emotionally connect to this person, but she may just not see the point in sex or even any sort of physical contact.
However those who are saying you have a right to your own sexuality are correct. If you feel that her lack of sexuality is bothering you, then it is not out of the question to suggest an open relationship. If she really doesn't feel a sexual attraction to you because she doesn't connect physicality to emotional bond, then there's really no reason for her to be jealous of sexual partner you have on the side. She might not understand why you need it if she doesn't feel that way, but it is something that you can bring up with her.
Stop stealing my poast!
But i'll agree with you anyway.
Cause man, we're all broken.
Now, I wholeheartedly agree that she has every right to control what she does and does not do. If she doesn't want to have sex, that's fine for her. And he has every right not to be in a committed relationship with her if sex is important enough to him. Or to be in committed open relationship.
Her right to not have sex does not transcend his base desire to have sex, and as such I'd consider this a dealbreaker unless the Open option works for them. She has no more right to expect him to be celibate than he does to expect her to be physically intimate with him. Obviously these are extremes, in that pressuring, coercing or guilting her into sex would make him a douchebag at best and a rapist at worst, but if she's asexual, happy being asexual and wants the comfort of a relationship while asexual... then they should find an asexual person to be with.
I believe everyone, asexual and otherwise, should be with someone (or not be with someone, as they might choose) that they are happy with.
Would I enter a monogamous relationship with a lesbian? No, because she wouldn't want to have sex with me. I'd happily be friends or room mates with said lesbian, but a desire to be physically intimate is something I appreciate from my partner, at least occasionally. And no, before anyone leaps down my throat, I don't expect it to be on my schedule either. I recognize and respect that sometimes libidos don't quite synch up. That you can go weeks or months without being sexual with a partner and still make things work, but those periods should (for me) be the exception rather than the norm.
It's a tough call to make, and I wish you luck, but in a similar situation I'd have to suggest an open relationship, with the caveat that I couldn't remain in a celibate relationship indefinately. Not as a threat (though many might take it as such) but a statement of fact.
My assertion is based on the fact that everyone I've known thats used the term asexual has done so as a way of saying "low libido". If it's a genuine "not interested, never will be" - then a relationship will be difficult, and I personally would have issues with the lack of physical intimacy. But as the above poster stated, without more info, I'd hate to see the OP jump ship if there's just something else going on that can be worked through.
I've been thinking about this one for a while today. It sounds to me that you aren't dating an asexual, but are instead in an asexual relationship. Your second question leads me to believe that things were physical at one point, but have leveled off to become non-physical. The fact that you both consider each other boyfriend/girlfriend either tells me that you are either young enough for those to have non-physical characteristics (Highschool and such), that you are dating in some fashion with her stringing you along (or is actually asexual yet for some reason carries out a non-physical relationship with you), or that you were at some point physical and intimate enough to consider each other partners but no longer express physical devotion.
If this is the first, I wouldn't worry too much. Some people take a long time to make that jump between friendship to a physical relationship.
If it is either of the second two, you have a more complicated problem. If she was always asexual, what caused you to consider each other partners in the first place as opposed to good friends. Was it her? Or was it you and she conceded for conformity's sake?
If she was not always asexual, what would have caused her aversion to even basic physical contact? Some women get disillusioned to sex after a painful experience or a psychological block. She may have also found herself no longer attracted to you, or perhaps has discovered other passions to focus her sexual energies upon. It is also possible that she is, as you suspected, becoming asexual though I would be surprised if this is the case as asexuality is much like any other sexual preference and would have become pronounced in puberty.
As for what you can do about it, aside from understanding her situation, I'd talk to her about it. Ask her what her sexual preferences are, if she is content with the way your relationship is, and if there is something you can do to either reawaken your bedroom life or figure out some other outlet for her and yourself. Communication is always the best path in a relationship. I'd stay away from accusing her of anything, though. Just try to be open and honest.
Well with respect, thats you. Applying that to someone else who presumably does want to have sex with his girlfriend at some point the only thing they could take from that is that they should pretend they're OK with it even if they aren't, a situation I dont see ending well.
We are both college-aged. I am recently graduated, she is a senior. This is her first relationship (my...sixth? Or something?), and so we are kind of feeling things out. Kissing is as physical as we've gotten, but she doesn't actually like that (recent revelation) so cuddling, some hugs, and handholding are currently what we both enjoy.
We have spoken about her being uncomfortable with touch. She asked me to just go slow, to not push her hard, but to still press along. This is how we've gotten to cuddling. I think she's working in the dark as much as I am with how comfortable she is with touch--her family doesn't really hug and such either. There's progress.
The reason I am wondering about asexuality is something a mutual friend told me (the one who first got us to start dating, actually): my SO hasn't been aroused. She's never felt turned on by anything. I was getting turned on by stuff before I understood what getting turned on even was, and have heard similar things from others before, so that's kind of stood out to me.
That's not much, though, so I'm asking about asexuality in this thread. I don't intend to diagnose or what have you. I just want some context to work in here, because before I was always the one who was less physical and less sexual. This is kind of a new position for me and I'd like some wisdom. Perhaps it isn't exactly asexuality--this is also something I'm wondering.
I obviously need to talk with my girlfriend more (who doesn't?) but we basically get weekends together to have fun and that's it. And we spend them having fun, going on hikes or just talking or playing with kittens. So far, the biggest problem with the relative lack of intimacy is that I feel lonelier than usual when she isn't around. That's actually kind of hard to describe.
I am aware that sex is one of my needs and that, ultimately, if that need can't be fulfilled while I'm in a relationship with her (either by her, with her enthusiastic consent and enjoyment) or by someone else (with her knowledge and consent in an open relationship) the relationship will have to end. For the moment, though, I think we are both happy, just with concerns.
Apparently I am not in the same situation as that guy. Yet, at least. I'll retitle the thread as I think I'm probably fucking up the scope of things.
I appreciate the concern inherent but I have been with girls with issues and this girl is at least quite pleasant to be around despite the apparent lack of certain drives (which would be additionally pleasant).
No more of this please.
Yes, this is abhorrent to me. I hugged her goodbye last night as she was headed back to school and she kissed me, but I broke it off. "You don't like kissing, do you?" is what I asked her. She said "No. I'm sorry..." and I said something about how that was fine. There really wasn't time to get into how I wasn't comfortable with her doing things she dislikes for my benefit because we were being exsanguinated by insects.
Using exsanguinated in conversation, by the way, is one of the things I like her for.
I'm just having trouble going forward again. I'm not always a perceptive sort and causing unpleasantness is a thing I try to avoid, so I'm getting more reticent about, say, seeing how she likes backrubs. In ways this is very much like the classic antisocial nerd's problem with the first kiss but with additional validity.
From what you're saying, it sounds like you're doing things right.