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If Majora's Mask was the first 3D Zelda...
jakemud
Registered User regular
Registered User regular
...would it have been considered the "best game ever" like Ocarina of Time, in many instances, has?
Before anyone responds, let me elaborate. I couldn't help but notice that there has been a retroactive rise in appreciation for Majora's Mask, for being the most original Zelda ever by not having Ganon. It started making me think, "hey, what if MM came out first?" I mean, is all the praise OoT gets simply because it was the first 3D Zelda? In the Zelda community, and in the gaming community in general, OoT is generally considered the "best" Zelda and even frequently "best game ever". Is there any reason to believe that the situation would be any different if their releases were switched?
Also, one thing before anyone starts foaming. I'm not saying OoT is the best Zelda or MM is the best or whatever. I'm just stating the perceptions that people have in general.
Before anyone responds, let me elaborate. I couldn't help but notice that there has been a retroactive rise in appreciation for Majora's Mask, for being the most original Zelda ever by not having Ganon. It started making me think, "hey, what if MM came out first?" I mean, is all the praise OoT gets simply because it was the first 3D Zelda? In the Zelda community, and in the gaming community in general, OoT is generally considered the "best" Zelda and even frequently "best game ever". Is there any reason to believe that the situation would be any different if their releases were switched?
Also, one thing before anyone starts foaming. I'm not saying OoT is the best Zelda or MM is the best or whatever. I'm just stating the perceptions that people have in general.
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See: Dragon Quarter. We will probably never see another Breath of Fire game thanks to that
White FC: 0819 3350 1787
Of course, the feeling of finally playing OoT for the first time is something I will always cherish.
OoT set the formula. MM, Wind Waker, and Twilight Princess are in the end, really just variations (Some more extreme than others.) on that formula. You can't really just "put" Majora's Mask first. It was an idea that evolved from Ocarina of Time, not a standalone idea.
But what broke Majora's Mask out of the mold was how it made you empathize with Termina, or at least for me. Each storyline and how they intertwined for a huge web of a conceivable world created a sense that at the end of the game, you really were saving everyone.
To address the topic, if Majora's Mask had been released first, I think it would've only been received even better than it was. But without Ocarina allowing Nintendo to experiment with Zelda in a 3-D sense, I don't think we could've gotten the gameplay experimentation that Majora's Mask had.
Obligatory. One cannot discuss Majora's Mask without posting this video.
Almost as good as the one with Mario Galaxy set to Don't Stop Me Now.
White FC: 0819 3350 1787
So MM's probably wouldn't have received so much acclaim.
That's my exact feeling.
Mine too. MM was quite amazing and most games to this day still don't have as interesting NPCs as MM did.
However, I think a fair bit of the charm of MM (which is my personal fav) comes from the fact that it had all the OoT characters in a bizarro world. If MM came first it would probably still be considered excellent, but I think seeing all the characters from OoT again helped give it a special charm. IMHO.
I like Sonata Arctica and this song and all, but it also is something I hate about most fanmade "music videos" being that they see a song with a title or maybe one lyric that coincides with what's going on in the video, and nothing else. This song is about a girl finding out her lover is a werewolf.
White FC: 0819 3350 1787
Dragon Quarter was an awful game.
I certain feel that way as well, but I'm not unwilling to admit it's fun for a certain mindset.
I will always hate it for killing Breath of Fire.
White FC: 0819 3350 1787
this video was awful enough to kill me
I am dead now
Something that comes to fruition in Twilight Princess?
I cannot and have never seen how Dragon Quarter could be fun for anyone. The graphics were awful, the gameplay was awful, the characters were bland and dry, the save system was punishing and encouraged you to restart the game from the beginning constantly for little to no reason because you ran out of "Save tokens" in some ploy to extend the games playtime. Everything about it was the opposite of fun and was constantly frustrating and filled with what can be described only as flat out terrible ideas in game design.
I love the hell out of it. It's beautiful, evocative, and the core combat is great. The soundtrack is some of Sakamoto's best. The D-counter I even enjoyed.
But the whole save/giveup/restart system? They need to fire whoever translated that, because the awkward word choices in menus made an already bizarre, unfamiliar system absolutely wretched. I understand they were going for a survival-horror tension, but it was just frustrating.
Edit: This thread is not about BoF:DQ. Maybe we should take this elsewhere.
You must also enjoy rubbing your genitals with rusty steel wool or something. I could at least see how the game might have been moderately enjoyable if it didn't have that game ruining save system, but the save system is there, and it destroys all fun the game could possibly have had, at least for me, and for most likely the majority of people who played it.
god I love this game
However, to me it's clearly a side-experiment away from the main Zelda franchise, and I love it for that. I don't think it'd have the same impact without the existence of Ocarina.
Now, I'd love to see more Majora's Mask style Zelda games.
PSN ID : Xander51 Steam ID : Xander51
I also has what I consider to be the best music of any Zelda game to date, however, and a fantastic story. The bombers' notebook was a great idea, and I hope they bring that back sometime.
3DS Friend Code: 0404-6826-4588 PM if you add.
Too bad the next Zelda game is probably going to probably be Twilight Princess but with different characters hahaha
White FC: 0819 3350 1787
I've still never played that game entirely. Only the beginning. My girlfriend at the time ( now Ex.) was too obsessed with Halo to ever give me more than 5 minutes alone with any game console or the TV without complaining and whinning constantly about how she was bored and had nothing to do (IE wanted to play halo for another 10 hours straight.) so i ended up just selling off my Wii games because i never got to use them when i bought them for more than 15 minutes.
White FC: 0819 3350 1787
It mainly boils down to other people having bad taste :P
and she got frustrated because the game seems designed to make you screw up as much as possible
A lot of the important concepts were introduced with OoT and developed with the sequel. Masks and the ocarina for example.
It really is a game that worked better as a sequel, building off of OoT's concepts and characters.
I remember an interview with Miyamoto, who said that, pre-launch, they were still adding things to the game, still playing around with concepts, and that if they could, they would like to go on experimenting "forever". After seeing the reviewer's face, he assured them that the game was near to completion. All those gameplay concepts became the game we know today as Majora's Mask. So, even if Nintendo came up with the idea of Majora's Mask first, it would be nowhere near the same game.
Nothing's forgotten, nothing is ever forgotten
I'm inclined to agree. I enjoyed TP, but the whole time I felt like I was playing a prettier OoT. I think they've taken the Zelda narrative as far as it can go with a silent protagonist, to the point where everyone is telling Link where to go and what to do, and you just want him to yell "I've fucking got this, stop railroading me!"
Shadow of the Colossus is probably the only thing that gives me the same vibe
Just exploration and the bare minimum of NPC's offering sparse, cryptic hints
The strange thing is is that I love originality and deeper NPC interaction yet I found alot of the NPC stuff to be a bit tedious. After trying to do the lovers quest I gave up after getting to the "mailing the letter" part and failing it twice. I just didn't really care enough to try again. I've never gotten the Fierce Deity Mask and didn't even know that it existed the first time I played it. I think a wittier script and good voice acting would help me get into the NPC stuff more in a future game.
Despite my complaints I still give a thumbs up to Nintendo for trying. Especially now as they have been coasting a little bit with recent releases.
If Zelda Wii : Twilight Princess :: MM:OoT I'd be a happy camper, but right now I fear Zelda Wii is just as likely to be the game that makes me give up hope for the Zelda series altogether. WW, TP and PH all managed to do some things well but missed the mark unnecessarily in some ways. They were 9/10 games, and that is not worth the hype. I sort of worry about ST because it focuses on an aspect of the controls rather than on discovering Hyrule, which is what has made other Zelda games great.
I don't think MM would have been lauded if it took the place of OoT; it would have been too different from what was expected and would have been seen as too short. MM was experimental Zelda done right but people are people, and MM would only have been given deserved praise some years after its release if it had been the first 3D Zelda. Also, the timer. I don't understand or sympathize with the people who didn't enjoy it, but I recognize it as an impediment to the appreciation of the game.
Silent protagonist has no effect on the game. Are you honestly trying to claim it would significantly shake up the formula and make the game way better if instead of:
We had:
I mean, what is Link saying in your head that makes the game so much better that way? Is it a change that would have somehow made Half Life 2 far better as well?
I agree totally, noting that the protagonist of this game spoke only very briefly and the game would've been no different had the spirit voice put those words into his mouth.
This is pretty much my feeling about Zelda. I played Twilight Princess up to the Wind Temple and then something just snapped. I lost the will to turn the game on again.
I just had done it so many times before that there was no reason to continue. The storyline, the format everything, it was just more of the same.
I really hope the next Zelda game has a new villain or storyline. I'm not holding my breath though.
That's not at all what I'm saying. I'm saying as the cast of any given Zelda game rises, the ridiculousness of a silent protagonist increases. How many NPCs are there in TP? Quite a few, and it starts to take focus off Link by making him seem like an errand-bitch.
You'll notice that complaints about silent Samus are far fewer, and generally about the juxtaposition of her against a speaking cast in MP3.
Edit: On further reflection, my issue may be with the disparity between how NPCs communicate to Link and how the game communicates to the player. An interesting question...