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Converting to Judiasm
TiB
Registered User regular
Registered User regular
I hope this isn't too sensitive of a topic.
For the past half a year or so I have been seriously considering converting from Lutheran to Judaism.
My family has never been very religious or devout. Just all around good people, but not too interesting in scripture and all that. I have fallen into such things myself these past few years. I'm not the type to push my faith on others, it's always been something just for me. But over the past year I have found myself relating more and more to the Jewish faith. It's practices, rituals, and history are just something that... I don't know... it just feels right for ME.
But the idea of converting is scary. Has any one here done it?
Edit: Damn it all I just realized I typoed "Judaism"
For the past half a year or so I have been seriously considering converting from Lutheran to Judaism.
My family has never been very religious or devout. Just all around good people, but not too interesting in scripture and all that. I have fallen into such things myself these past few years. I'm not the type to push my faith on others, it's always been something just for me. But over the past year I have found myself relating more and more to the Jewish faith. It's practices, rituals, and history are just something that... I don't know... it just feels right for ME.
But the idea of converting is scary. Has any one here done it?
Edit: Damn it all I just realized I typoed "Judaism"
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There's the big question, of course, when converting from a Christian denomination to Judaism - that of the nature of the Big Guy, or more specifically, whether or not He had a son, and the son was crucified to absolve us of Original Sin.
In the only philosophy class I ever took in college - I forget its actual name, but essentially Religion 101, just about all of it was crap, spending way too much time trying to unify all the world's religions under one monoculture. When each of the Abraham-based religions have distinct "our god is the Only God" verses (10 Commandments, John 3:16 to an extent, the Koran's Ali-I'mran, verse 18), to suggest that people can legitimately say "there are multiple paths to Heaven" and still be following scripture is asinine.
Which, yeah, I can see why you might be unnerved by the whole thing. Even lapsed Christians/Jews/Muslims can feel a wary sense about the other religions. They're just similar enough to be familiar, but what if the scriptures of one religion are, down to the line, 100% correct? And you choose the wrong one?
It's scary stuff when you get into that headspace. Even if it's just the structure of the faith's traditions that you enjoy, you're still, in a sense, choosing your God. (Though, apparently, if Christianity is the "correct" choice, in Revelations you'll still get a second chance via a ticket to the 144,000 Jews-to-Heaven sweepstakes).
I don't mean to make light of your decision. I've started becoming more and more Agnostic over the years, and though my foundation is largely Christian-oriented, I've studied the Islamic faith for going on 8 years (for the obvious reason) and have come to really respect the Five Pillars of Islam, and many of its traditions and customs. I don't think I'll ever convert, but hey, maybe I'll take a trip to Mecca and see what happens.
So I guess my advice here is if it's the traditions and the family structure you enjoy, and the faith itself is secondary, then go to what speaks to you. (If it's Hasidic Judaism, then, well, good luck on being a casual Hasidic.)
But if the faith is a big question mark in your head, I can only give you this - a while back, I came to the realization that all scriptures are written by men, and men are flawed. Therefore, the scriptures are flawed. (Islam actually addresses this; there are claims that the Hebrews were the chosen people of God, but they screwed up the translation of His word, and God moved on to Mohammed.)
I don't know. When the scriptures were written, hell, even when the Book of Mormon was written, I don't think anyone had in mind the idea of instant global communication, instant 24/7 information and thousands if not millions of different interpretations simultaneously.
It's not that I don't believe in Jesus, just that I find a distinct calling to the Jewish faith.
Is that weird?
"The Passion of the Jew" episode of South Park gives a nice microcosm (as they've been wont to do lately) of this. I'm actually not kidding, either - humor aside, Stone and Parker were really good about showing how religious people can devolve into groupthink about this particular matter.
Even though Christ told the disciples This Is Supposed To Happen, and it happened as planned according to the Gospels, Christianity has a difficulty moving past the idea that the world at one point had a savior, had a God on Earth, and the Jewish leaders turned Him over to the Romans to be crucified.
So, while the Jewish faith certainly doesn't condone what happened with Christ - it's just one of a thousand stories where human beings chosen by God still acted like, well, human beings - they also don't accept him as a savior. They're still waiting on that Messiah that Christianity claims already came and went, and is supposed to come back at a to-be-determined time and place.
Which is why it is like "HOly crap i could be picking seomthing else and be "WRONG"... but I could already be in something that is "WRONG"..."
So why not go with what feels "right"
I don't know about weird, but you might want to look into whether or not that would exclude you. From a quick google, converts are certainly expected to "accept Judaism to the exclusion of all other faiths and practices", so I'd imagine you'd have a hard time convincing the religious court that you were worthy if you're going to continuing believing stuff from another religion.
It'd be a bit like a Red Sox fan wearing Yankees underwear.
(Note: I know as much about Judaism as I do about baseball).
I agree. OP, becoming Jewish would ABSOLUTELY entail rejecting Jesus and the triune god. In the Jewish faith, Jesus was nothing but a man. A wise and compassionate man perhaps but also a rebel and a blasphemer.
There are plenty of things that are sorta optional about Judaism (although the books say a lot of them really aren't supposed to be, but hey, we live in America where temple gets in the way of football pre-games).... that's not one of them. If you believe in Jesus of Nazereth, you're not Jewish, you're SOME denomination of Christian.
That's really not a reconcilable difference.
But I think that shows a lack of understanding of these religions. I mean, let's face it, Christianity and Islam both state clearly - don't believe in our god? You go to hell and you stay there. Period. I'm totally fine with throwing my own personal soul about like it ain't no thing, but even with something I'm not sure exists, I wouldn't just say "go with what feels right" regarding another person's eternal soul.
After all, sex without a condom sure feels right when you're doing it - less so when it starts burning when you pee.
Judaism seems particularly more forgiving with the concept of Gehenna, which is essentially a waystation for all souls, and those who were not in alignment with God remain there longer because they require more purification before ascending. However, that belief seems to be contradicted by Daniel 12:2, "And many of those who sleep in the dust of the earth shall awake, Some to everlasting life, Some to shame and everlasting contempt."
I would say, if you read the Book of John and believe it wholeheartedly, you're Christian. (The Book of John is the only book in the Gospel that proclaims Christ as the Son of God. It's also the one book of the Gospel that no Bible scholar can agree upon - even the scholars that are Christian.) If you believe Jesus was a wonderful teacher and philosopher who just was the victim of a group of intolerant faith elders, then you can safely convert.
I mean, the critical component of any religion is belief. Some say it's the only component. If you believe in their worldview and eternal views, then you're a person of that faith.
A leap of faith from no religion ---> a religion is scary enough. Leaping from one religion to another? That's another animal.
The first thing you have to do, if you're interested in this, is study. You won't know if it's right for you unless you know something about the religion. Read on your own, and then find a rabbi nearby (if you live near a college, I'd recommend the local Hillel, which is a Jewish organization that has chapters on most campuses. College rabbis are invariably friendly and good with young people.) Talk to him/her about converting, and you'll probably have regular meetings and study sessions culminating in an official conversion. If you're a guy, you may have to get circumcised -- I don't know much about this, so check!
What should you read?
Well, you want to get familiar with Jewish scriptures. Five books of Moses + prophets + writings (i.e. psalms, Ecclesiastes.) Not cover to cover, necessarily, but enough not to have glaring holes. If you can, find a translation designed for Jews because it's not quite the same as the King James or New Standard Version -- the standard is the Hertz.
Good, if stodgy introduction to what Jews do and believe: To Be a Jew, by Hayim Donin. (No, in real life you might not be this observant, but you certainly want to know what the observances are.)
Scholarly introduction to the main Jewish texts: Back to the Sources, by Barry Holtz.
That's what comes to mind at the moment. More knowledgeable people will recommend more.
Talmud is daunting as hell and you don't need to get into it, but there's a little section called Pirkei Avot that is accessible and very worth reading. It's just a collection of short, deep ethical aphorisms. See if you can find a decent translation. It's a good distillation, I believe, of what really matters.
A cultural note: Jews are not like Christians when it comes to religion. My Christian friends want to share their religion with everybody -- "Come to Bible Study, it's fun!" Some of them even consider it a success if they bring someone new to Christ. Jews don't do that so much. They won't force their religion on you, which is nice, but they also tend to be guarded about letting people in. Even I have a little creeped-out feeling if non-Jews are watching me pray. That's why I'm hammering home that you have to read so much. You'll be more accepted as serious if you know what you're talking about.
Also -- don't be a Jew for Jesus.
Seriously, man.
They're creepy.
If you believe Jesus is the son of God, then you're a Christian. Which is awesome too. It's the deceptive quality of the Jews for Jesus thing that's disturbing.
Good luck, and keep asking questions.
http://numberblog.wordpress.com/
In other news, make sure your area has a good number of butcher shops offering halal meats.
Shalom!
This, completely.
As a warning, it's a tradition that a rabbi reject a potentially convert at least three times. Don't be alarmed if the rabbi acts cool towards you at first.
After that, you definitely get into the nuts and bolts of what is going on. There's a lot of things in Judaism that probably will seem very weird (and it is, even for those inside the faith) and you'll have to make a decision on whether you can accept it.
Keep in mind that there are effectively four different "strengths," or sects, of Judaism. On one end is Reform, which is more of a modern interpretation, and on the other end is Orthodox which is a much more conservative and traditionally interpretation.
But yes, talk to a rabbi.
If the answers to both of these questions is "yes," then yeah. Convert. Act on your beliefs.
If the answer to any one of those question is "no," then no. Don't convert. If you're interested in Judaism and don't understand it, get to know it before converting. If you've done a bunch of research on Judaism and understand it, but don't really believe in it, then you have no business converting.
I've been to a couple of services myself (I'm a Lutheran) and they really are beautiful, especially the music. So it seems like that may be a "best of both worlds" scenario for you if you really like the Old Testament aesthetic but don't necessarily want to give up on Jesus. I don't think these particular congregations would find it difficult to reconcile their Judaism with Christ; the Jews who followed Jesus back in the day certainly didn't.
Some resources:
Wikipedia
Jews For Jesus
And I would recommend attempting to locate a Jewish/Christian synagogue nearby for you to attend one week.
Hope this is helpful info!
EDIT:
Just so we're clear, this is the post that brought me to this conclusion:
As far as not following the scriptures word for work... Judaism does hold them dear, but the fun thing about them is that they have a long and proud tradition of constantly debating what they mean. So you're not automatically excluded if you don't believe any given interpretation.
Yeah, this, basically. I don't know if a Jewish Christian church will hold you to the same high standard, but if you truly want to be immersed in Judaism you should go into this expecting to receive some serious education about the culture and religion.
You do not want to convert to a religion you don't believe in.
Conversion is hard. You'll run into people who treat you weird for being a convert. There will be interminable awkwardness. Only do this if you really want to.
Also, if you're skeptical about things, I'd say take your skepticism seriously. Whether the answers you find are religious or not, you'll be better off if you don't shortchange your intellect. Jews, in my experience, are pretty good about entertaining questions and debate, so don't consider doubt a dealbreaker.
No offense to Josh, but I think "Jewish Christian Churches" are deceptive and not a good idea. Jewish rituals aren't just fun things to do -- they actually have symbolic connections to a set of beliefs. I wouldn't eat a communion wafer just because it looked tasty.
http://numberblog.wordpress.com/
Ahhh, sorry. Messianic Judaism is actually what I meant, not JfJ. Sorry, got mixed up. I visited a church practicing Messianic Judaism, not part of the Jews for Jesus evangelical creep group.
1. Jews are a tribe of people.
2. Jew =/= Jewish Religion
3. Chances are you're a Jew. Apparently the "old" testament wasn't quite enough, so some of us decided to go ahead and have a "new" testament. Something about a ghost might have popped up over some heady manischevitz inspired conversation.
4. If you guys need any other questions answered, just send me an e-mail, seeing as I have had a barmitzvah and such.
1. Screw lent. Yom Kippur = fast from morning to sundown, and have a feast. bingo bango.
2. Matzah is delicious with pasta sauce and melted cheese.
3. Challa!
4. If you're Jewish, you can explain to your African American friends that Cotton = Pyramids
5. Israeli chicks are oh-so-hot.
6. See 5 a few more times.
A jew was stranded on an island in the middle of nowhere. He built two temples. Upon being rescued, he was asked why he had built two. He replied, "Well, the one was my temple. I think the other temple is full of idiots".
If you put 3 jews in a room, you'll have 5 different versions of Judaism.
Seriously, you just reaffirmed my faith. Mazel tov!
Also, in addition to 5, Sarah Silverman!
She would be a fantastic silent film actress.
That really is one very curious thing about Judaism. With Christianity, I can say I no longer want to be a Christian because I simply don't believe in it anymore. But with Judaism, how do you stop being a Jew? I know lots of Jews who don't believe in any aspect of their religion. They don't pray. They don't believe in God. They don't keep the law. They don't read the Torah or study it or anything like that. And yet, they call themselves Jews.
Anyway, it's interesting.
It's like being an African and being all like
I renounce being an African.
Or I renounce being an Eskimo.
Or I renounce being from the Dirty South.
(why you'd want to renounce that I have no idea.)
That's partly because Jewish religious law does make a distinction between people who were at one time believers and had a falling out, or children of believers who had not strongly adopted the faith, and people who were not jews and not raised by jews and really are for all intents and purposes outsiders.
In some ways, even if you're a convinced believer in the jewish faith but an outsider to the culture, it's easier to say to the culture that you want to raise your children jewish then it is to say you want to become jewish yourself. Your children can start fresh in the culture; you can't.
We don't exactly have a head-Jew or anything.
It's weird how ethnicity and religion flow into one another. That's why it's complicated -- you'd be picking up a new culture, not simply a set of beliefs.
Benefits are pretty sweet, of course. It does come with the power to wreak economic collapse and secretly control all world leaders by hypnosis.
http://numberblog.wordpress.com/
Also you will be who people are looking over their shoulders for before they start to tell priest/rabbi jokes.
.... True... there's about as many versions of the Halakha as there are Rabbi.
Honestly the Mitzvot are almost more hilarious to read then the Ferengi Rules of Acquisition. It's like they sat a hundred people down and wrote down everything anyone blurted out.
If'n you're a jew.
Think of it as the Jewish version of a little sign that says, "God Bless This Mess"
Sundown to sundown actually.
Here you go.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mezuzah
Short version is that it is a small excerpt from the Torah that all jews are supposed to mount on their front door-frame.
Shhhhhhh.
In my experience, you will be the person telling rabbi jokes.
See? Another Jew, and we disagree about stuff already.
But it's ok you should trust me because I am way more Jewish.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Purim#The_Purim_meal