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Is being non-Christian technically a sin?

Loren MichaelLoren Michael Registered User regular
edited October 2009 in Help / Advice Forum
Is being a non-Christian technically a sin under some religious principal or other? Which one?

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    Bionic MonkeyBionic Monkey Registered User, ClubPA regular
    edited October 2009
    Thou shalt have no other god but me.

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    KalTorakKalTorak One way or another, they all end up in the Undercity.Registered User regular
    edited October 2009
    I'm not sure if just being non-Christian is technically a sin.

    However, since everyone is (supposedly) born with Original Sin, and the only way to get rid of it is through Jesus, being non-Christian makes you unable to free yourself from sin.

    KalTorak on
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    TerrendosTerrendos Decorative Monocle Registered User regular
    edited October 2009
    I'm going to say that varies a lot based on which version of Christianity you look at. In the old days I know it was considered that Mankind suffered from original Sin and only by belief in Christ (who sacrificed himself to cleanse us of Sin) could we be raised to Heaven. Or something like that.

    Don't quote me on any of this, by the way. I think for Catholics, you're covered so long as you're a denomination of Christianity, or possibly Jewish. I know that for my particular faith (Methodist) we're pretty open to letting lots of people into heaven.

    Terrendos on
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    Bionic MonkeyBionic Monkey Registered User, ClubPA regular
    edited October 2009
    To be more specific, everybody, regardless of religion, is a sinner. God's just cutting you a break for believing in Jesus.

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    Loren MichaelLoren Michael Registered User regular
    edited October 2009
    Sweet. Thanks.

    Loren Michael on
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    TerrendosTerrendos Decorative Monocle Registered User regular
    edited October 2009
    Thou shalt have no other god but me.

    Isn't it: "Thou shalt have no other gods before me" though? I guess it depends on how you translate the Hebrew.

    Terrendos on
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    Eat it You Nasty Pig.Eat it You Nasty Pig. tell homeland security 'we are the bomb'Registered User regular
    edited October 2009
    is there not some exception for the hypothetical people who've never been exposed to christianity (or the hypothetical dying infant?) Or is that all just feelgood stuff the clergy invented

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    QuothQuoth the Raven Miami, FL FOR REALRegistered User regular
    edited October 2009
    Dyscord wrote: »
    is there not some exception for the hypothetical people who've never been exposed to christianity (or the hypothetical dying infant?) Or is that all just feelgood stuff the clergy invented

    don't know if it's changed but Dante says they go to hell

    edit: a vanilla part of hell, but still hell

    Quoth on
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    JasconiusJasconius sword criminal mad onlineRegistered User regular
    edited October 2009
    So you're betting your supposed immortal soul on the opinions of an internet forum as opposed to actual priests and pastors?


    I think I read something about that in Second Corinthians.

    Jasconius on
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    MuddBuddMuddBudd Registered User regular
    edited October 2009
    Is being a non-Christian technically a sin under some religious principal or other? Which one?

    In theory? No.

    In practice? Yes.

    I think the history of Christianity provides ample examples of this.

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    CycloneRangerCycloneRanger Registered User regular
    edited October 2009
    Jasconius wrote: »
    So you're betting your supposed immortal soul on the opinions of an internet forum as opposed to actual priests and pastors?


    I think I read something about that in Second Corinthians.
    Fitty bucks says he's just interested in a technical point regarding Christianity due a debate occurring on the 'net or in real life. Loren is about as committed an atheist as it is possible to be.

    CycloneRanger on
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    EggyToastEggyToast Jersey CityRegistered User regular
    edited October 2009
    Which would mean that atheists are in the clear, as they have no other god at all.

    I believe many forms of Christianity believe that people sin anyway, and that to release the sin you need to be a believer. The forms for doing that differ between the various sects, of course.

    But you're also likely to get a different response depending on which theologian you ask. For example, I would imagine that plenty of more "liberal" theologians take a, dare I say, Jewish approach to the question -- that you can be a good person, and that there's nothing wrong with being a gentile, but you are not one of god's people.

    If you're really curious, I have a high school friend who's an ordained minister; she'd probably enjoy the question.

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    SliderSlider Registered User regular
    edited October 2009
    Beyond the, "Be nice to other people and don't f**k your neighbors wife" most religious rules are bullsh*t. I've given up trying to understand them all. My belief in God/Jesus should be enough to save this evil bastard.

    Slider on
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    GothicLargoGothicLargo Registered User regular
    edited October 2009
    Is being a non-Christian technically a sin under some religious principal or other? Which one?

    One of the defining similarities between religions and political parties is that if you're not a member then you're going to their version of hell. There really aren't many religions out there that DON'T think everyone else is a sinner.

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    khainkhain Registered User regular
    edited October 2009
    Is being a non-Christian technically a sin under some religious principal or other? Which one?

    One of the defining similarities between religions and political parties is that if you're not a member then you're going to their version of hell. There really aren't many religions out there that DON'T think everyone else is a sinner.

    I don't think Loren is asking if he's theoretically going to hell, but rather is rejecting God in itself a sin.
    23So Jesus called them and spoke to them in parables: "How can Satan drive out Satan? 24If a kingdom is divided against itself, that kingdom cannot stand. 25If a house is divided against itself, that house cannot stand. 26And if Satan opposes himself and is divided, he cannot stand; his end has come. 27In fact, no one can enter a strong man's house and carry off his possessions unless he first ties up the strong man. Then he can rob his house. 28I tell you the truth, all the sins and blasphemies of men will be forgiven them. 29But whoever blasphemes against the Holy Spirit will never be forgiven; he is guilty of an eternal sin."

    Some people interpret the above, specifically the blasphemy against the Holy Spirit portion, as the state of continued disbelief and thus an unpardonable sin. This site give a slightly more in depth version.

    Dyscord wrote: »
    is there not some exception for the hypothetical people who've never been exposed to christianity (or the hypothetical dying infant?) Or is that all just feelgood stuff the clergy invented

    Romans 1:20 seems pretty clear about the subject for those that haven't heard, though I'm unsure if there is another verse that offers a different view. I'm unsure about the hypothetical dying infant who may not be able to understand yet and I don't think the Bible gives an answer.

    khain on
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    Sharp10rSharp10r Registered User regular
    edited October 2009
    I'm a conservative evangelical pastor so I can fill you in our interpretation of the Bible:
    In Romans 1:12-21 says, "For the wrath of God is revealed from heaven against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men who suppress the truth in unrighteousness, because that which is known about God is evident within them; for God made it evident to them. For since the creation of the world His invisible attributes, His eternal power and divine nature, have been clearly seen, being understood through what has been made, so that they are without excuse. For even though they knew God, they did not honor Him as God or give thanks, but they became futile in their speculations, and their foolish heart was darkened."

    The idea is, there's a part of everyone who sees from creation that there is a god. Seeing this, every man has a choice- follow the glimmer of light, or turn from it in rebellion. Following the light of what is called "general revelation" (what can be known about God through philosophy and through creation) leads one to examine the "special revelation" of Scriptures (the Bible) and examine their testimony and historicity and accept or deny it.
    But the man who curses the little bit of light- he has chosen to not honor God- and yes- is therefore "in" sin (but can accept the light at any time theoretically- in practice, however, one rejects it so long they will become hardened to the call and "their foolish heart darkened."

    Hope this helps- if you want more information on reasons to believe, historicity of the Gospels, or even want to dialogue over some objections you have, or just want to have a better understanding of what Christians believe- my PM box is open.

    Sharp10r on
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    Casually HardcoreCasually Hardcore Once an Asshole. Trying to be better. Registered User regular
    edited October 2009
    While I'm not a Christian, I do have a Christian friend that I butt heads with from time to time.

    Basically it's like this.

    Everyone is a sinner, and everyone is destined to hell. The only way to not go to hell is through Jesus. If you fully accept Jesus and have a personal relationship with him, you're saved.

    If you happen to live in a place that is physically impossible to even know what Christianity is, well you're SOL.

    Oh, and apparently babies that died at birth have a special 'Go to Heaven' chance card, cause damning babies to hell is even too low for God.

    So, that's the whole of it.

    As for not believing in God being a sin or not. I dont think it really matter, cause you sin every time you lift your butt cheek to fart. There is really no winning that game.

    Casually Hardcore on
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    Napalm DonkeyNapalm Donkey Registered User regular
    edited October 2009
    As for not believing in God being a sin or not. I dont think it really matter, cause you sin every time you lift your butt cheek to fart. There is really now winning that game.
    well assuming farting is a venial sin if your catholic you just have to go to purgatory for a little bit before heaven.

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    Bionic MonkeyBionic Monkey Registered User, ClubPA regular
    edited October 2009
    I dont think it really matter, cause you sin every time you lift your butt cheek to fart. There is really now winning that game.

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    Have you ever read this thing, Marge? Technically, we aren't even allowed to go to the bathroom!

    Bionic Monkey on
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    PasserbyePasserbye I am much older than you. in Beach CityRegistered User regular
    edited October 2009
    Are we talking just from a Christian perspective here, or can other religions chime in too?

    Passerbye on
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    TamTam Registered User regular
    edited October 2009
    I think they're talking specifically about the Christian concept of sin.

    Tam on
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    PasserbyePasserbye I am much older than you. in Beach CityRegistered User regular
    edited October 2009
    Tam wrote: »
    I think they're talking specifically about the Christian concept of sin.

    Ah, in that case there is the concept of the Virtuous Pagan. That said, if you've grown up in a Christian society or otherwise been exposed to Christianity beyond seeing a Christian from a distance, then yes, being a non-Christian is a sin, be you Buddhist, Muslim, Atheist, or otherwise.

    Passerbye on
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    clsCorwinclsCorwin Registered User regular
    edited October 2009
    Terrendos wrote: »
    Thou shalt have no other god but me.

    Isn't it: "Thou shalt have no other gods before me" though? I guess it depends on how you translate the Hebrew.

    Yea, but all denominations of Christianity, Judaism, and Islam all worship the same God.

    clsCorwin on
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    L|amaL|ama Registered User regular
    edited October 2009
    Only sort of, he has a completely different personality in each of their holy texts, even though it's technically the same god.

    L|ama on
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    Kane Red RobeKane Red Robe Master of Magic ArcanusRegistered User regular
    edited October 2009
    Passerbye wrote: »
    Tam wrote: »
    I think they're talking specifically about the Christian concept of sin.

    Ah, in that case there is the concept of the Virtuous Pagan. That said, if you've grown up in a Christian society or otherwise been exposed to Christianity beyond seeing a Christian from a distance, then yes, being a non-Christian is a sin, be you Buddhist, Muslim, Atheist, or otherwise.

    I always found that concept pretty funny. I mean, on the one hand, it doesn't make sense to damn people for where they were born; on the other, it does open up the possibility of lowering the amount of people that get into heaven by spreading the "Word of the Lord," which I think runs sort of counter to what the faith is intending.

    Kane Red Robe on
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    UncleSporkyUncleSporky Registered User regular
    edited October 2009
    EggyToast wrote: »
    Which would mean that atheists are in the clear, as they have no other god at all.
    It's often interpreted to mean those who worship their own fame or wealth or power. You don't have to believe in a deity to have other "gods," other masters to serve, before God.

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    SideAffectsSideAffects Registered User regular
    edited October 2009
    Passerbye wrote: »
    Tam wrote: »
    I think they're talking specifically about the Christian concept of sin.

    Ah, in that case there is the concept of the Virtuous Pagan. That said, if you've grown up in a Christian society or otherwise been exposed to Christianity beyond seeing a Christian from a distance, then yes, being a non-Christian is a sin, be you Buddhist, Muslim, Atheist, or otherwise.

    What if the Christianity that you've been exposed to isn't your cup of tea? I mean, there are more flavors of Christianity than there are flavors of ice cream

    SideAffects on
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    KalTorakKalTorak One way or another, they all end up in the Undercity.Registered User regular
    edited October 2009
    Passerbye wrote: »
    Tam wrote: »
    I think they're talking specifically about the Christian concept of sin.

    Ah, in that case there is the concept of the Virtuous Pagan. That said, if you've grown up in a Christian society or otherwise been exposed to Christianity beyond seeing a Christian from a distance, then yes, being a non-Christian is a sin, be you Buddhist, Muslim, Atheist, or otherwise.

    What if the Christianity that you've been exposed to isn't your cup of tea? I mean, there are more flavors of Christianity than there are flavors of ice cream

    I doubt it would matter - I think most forms of Christianity would agree that any form is better than none at all. If you've heard of Jesus, you'd better like him.

    KalTorak on
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    PeregrineFalconPeregrineFalcon Registered User regular
    edited October 2009
    Slider wrote: »
    Beyond the, "Be nice to other people and don't f**k your neighbors wife" most religious rules are bullsh*t. I've given up trying to understand them all. My belief in God/Jesus should be enough to save this evil bastard.

    But what if your neighbour and his wife are not only down with, but actively encouraging that idea?

    Do all swingers go to hell?

    Oh, and you can say fuck on the Internet, your mother isn't going to know (unless you're LewieP)

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    JasconiusJasconius sword criminal mad onlineRegistered User regular
    edited October 2009
    "I am the way, and the truth, and the life; no one comes to the Father but through Me"

    and

    "There is no god but Allah, and Muhammad is his prophet"

    Take your chances, roll the dice!

    Jasconius on
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    HKPacman420HKPacman420 Registered User regular
    edited October 2009
    Slider wrote: »
    Beyond the, "Be nice to other people and don't f**k your neighbors wife" most religious rules are bullsh*t. I've given up trying to understand them all. My belief in God/Jesus should be enough to save this evil bastard.

    But what if your neighbour and his wife are not only down with, but actively encouraging that idea?

    Do all swingers go to hell?

    Oh, and you can say fuck on the Internet, your mother isn't going to know (unless you're LewieP)


    Yeah,I don't think the ancient jews took sexually liberated swingers into mind :/

    I've never gotten the concept of self-censorship.I mean, use the real word or reword your sentences (I mean fuck, you could've used 'screw' 'bang' 'make sexy-time with' etc.)

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    SniperGuySniperGuy SniperGuyGaming Registered User regular
    edited October 2009
    clsCorwin wrote: »
    Terrendos wrote: »
    Thou shalt have no other god but me.

    Isn't it: "Thou shalt have no other gods before me" though? I guess it depends on how you translate the Hebrew.

    Yea, but all denominations of Christianity, Judaism, and Islam all worship the same God.

    A thousand different sects will debate this with you (Though personally i'm all behind that idea)

    Also, asking something like this about christianity as a whole has a few problems, mainly that there are so many different sects of Christianity it's really hard to get a standard answer. Hell, I was raised Catholic and while priests and such told me in no uncertain terms that it's silly to think that someone who was raised in the jungle and never shown God would go to hell, quite a few other people assured me that they were sunk.

    However, I choose to believe God isn't an outright prick, so I figure as long as you aren't a douche and don't outright reject people, you're fine.

    According to Catholicism, the act of outright not being Christian isn't a sin. They would encourage you to convert, just like any other religion cause Jesus is cool and all that, but a sin is something you have chosen to do. When you're raised to be a Jewish person, it wasn't really a choice for you, so I fail to see that being a sin. And at the most, it's a venial one.

    SniperGuy on
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    SammyFSammyF Registered User regular
    edited October 2009
    Sharp10r wrote: »
    I'm a conservative evangelical pastor so I can fill you in our interpretation of the Bible--

    I immediately pulled up his expanded gamer card hoping beyond hope that I'd find Grand Theft Auto in there somewhere.

    SammyF on
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    Sharp10rSharp10r Registered User regular
    edited October 2009
    SammyF wrote: »
    Sharp10r wrote: »
    I'm a conservative evangelical pastor so I can fill you in our interpretation of the Bible--

    I immediately pulled up his expanded gamer card hoping beyond hope that I'd find Grand Theft Auto in there somewhere.

    I'll try not to take offense to that. And what if you did? I'm writing a long paper on Christian Ethics of Simulated Situations (Video Games) assuming an Aristotelian/Thomistic Virtue Ethic- and frankly I'm not sure yet where games like GTA will land. Don't assume you know what all Christians think about a topic because of what some (Jack Thompson) run around saying. Look at it this way: God doesn't have high standards to get into the "club." Accept the gift of grace given by his Son Jesus, through his death and resurrection. What that means is all kinds are in the club, but not all of 'em make the best spokesperson or representative. ;)

    Sharp10r on
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    PeregrineFalconPeregrineFalcon Registered User regular
    edited October 2009
    Sharp10r wrote: »
    SammyF wrote: »
    Sharp10r wrote: »
    I'm a conservative evangelical pastor so I can fill you in our interpretation of the Bible--

    I immediately pulled up his expanded gamer card hoping beyond hope that I'd find Grand Theft Auto in there somewhere.

    I'll try not to take offense to that. And what if you did? I'm writing a long paper on Christian Ethics of Simulated Situations (Video Games) assuming an Aristotelian/Thomistic Virtue Ethic- and frankly I'm not sure yet where games like GTA will land. Don't assume you know what all Christians think about a topic because of what some (Jack Thompson) run around saying. Look at it this way: God doesn't have high standards to get into the "club." Accept the gift of grace given by his Son Jesus, through his death and resurrection. What that means is all kinds are in the club, but not all of 'em make the best spokesperson or representative. ;)

    Protip: No one hates Jack Thompson because he's Christian, they hate him because he's a dumbass.

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    GothicLargoGothicLargo Registered User regular
    edited October 2009
    Everyone is a sinner, and everyone is destined to hell.
    This. And if the methodists are correct we also don't have free will.

    So... not only are you a sinner, but you were always destined to be a sinner and have no choice in the matter. Fun.
    Protip: No one hates Jack Thompson because he's Christian, they hate him because he's a dumbass.
    Jack Thompson is everything Phoenix Wright isn't. Let's consider some of what that means...

    -He's bad at poker and can't play the piano.
    -He's unattractive and not overly bright.
    -He makes calculated conclusions that are wrong.
    -He's never been accused of murder, but he's probably committed a few.

    GothicLargo on
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    Bionic MonkeyBionic Monkey Registered User, ClubPA regular
    edited October 2009
    Everyone is a sinner, and everyone is destined to hell.
    This. And if the methodists are correct we also don't have free will.

    So... not only are you a sinner, but you were always destined to be a sinner and have no choice in the matter. Fun.
    Protip: No one hates Jack Thompson because he's Christian, they hate him because he's a dumbass.
    He's like Phoenix Wright except that Phoenix Wright is attractive, intelligent, and hasn't been disbarred. So in other words he's absolutely nothing like Phoenix Wright other then that they both like to yell "Objection!".

    I have some bad news for you son. Maybe you should sit down.

    Bionic Monkey on
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    SliderSlider Registered User regular
    edited October 2009
    Slider wrote: »
    Beyond the, "Be nice to other people and don't f**k your neighbors wife" most religious rules are bullsh*t. I've given up trying to understand them all. My belief in God/Jesus should be enough to save this evil bastard.

    But what if your neighbour and his wife are not only down with, but actively encouraging that idea?

    Do all swingers go to hell?

    Oh, and you can say fuck on the Internet, your mother isn't going to know (unless you're LewieP)

    I've never gotten the concept of self-censorship.I mean, use the real word or reword your sentences (I mean fuck, you could've used 'screw' 'bang' 'make sexy-time with' etc.)


    It's a habit. Most forums require that you censor yourself or find ways around their filters.

    Slider on
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    FantasmaFantasma Registered User regular
    edited October 2009
    Hi,

    According to the bible we are all sinners, so you are a sinner, even if you are Christian. By following the ten commandments people live an acceptable life in front of God. However, Santiago (I don't know the English equivalent) clearly stated that faith without deeds is dead.

    I read in the last book of the bible something that says: And those whose names were not written in the book of life were thrown in the lake of fire (second death).

    We just need to know how to get our names written in this book to attain salvation, am I wrong?

    Fantasma on
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    ImprovoloneImprovolone Registered User regular
    edited October 2009
    Am I wrong in recalling that in the Lutheran faith (and probably some pre-determination faiths such as Calvinism), that you're kind of already saved if-so-facto because God knows what's going to happen anyway?

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