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Reflecting on current relationship
Sipex
Registered User regular
Registered User regular
Alright, so some of you might remember I made a thread a couple weeks ago asking for advice with my wanderlust and you all helped me come to terms with it (ie: it's normal, and I realised I liked where I am).
Something was still bugging me though, wasn't sure what it was until I read this thread:
http://forums.penny-arcade.com/showthread.php?t=97182
While my situation isn't nearly as bad as any of the worst there I am definitely able to recognise several of the warning signs cited within, these include but probably aren't limited to:
- She needs to do everything with me. She claims this isn't true and sometimes it isn't but often I will feel guilt tripped into spending time with her. (IE: Her: "What do you want to do?" Me: "Play my game." Her: "oh....okay....") I don't feel I neglect her so this treatment seems undeserved.
Bigger case in point: she almost always expects me to follow her to the bathroom nowadays actually and gets pouty/locks herself in briefly/threatens suicide (obvious joke mind you but still annoying)
- If we go somewhere and she's not the center of my attention she tends to get upset. This isn't true 100% of the time, if we're at a relatives house or our common friend's house she deals but this is common in other places.
- She has used sex as a weapon. It could be reasoned that she's just joking when she does this but I know I'm too lovesick to actually know this or not so I'm taking it 100%, joke or not.
- I constantly do stuff for her, constantly. She asks me to get food, drinks, store runs and massages for her. This happens when I'm in the middle of doing my own thing (often if she feels we should be spending the time together instead). I have tried acting out against it and she just goes 'pleeeeease' or some other controlling tactic and I groan. I've at least gotten her out of the stage where she'll just try saying "I'm thirsty" aloud and expect me to do something about it >.>
Mind you she'll do things for me if I ask her to but I'm pretty independant so I don't, so that's not an issue.
- I do the majority of the work. She's got a part time job (3 hours a day, 5 if you include transit...yes the transit here sucks that bad) and I've got a full time job yet I'm the one who constantly makes dinner, cleans the dishes, does the other chores. She does the budgeting (which I started letting her do because she felt useless when she didn't have a job and now pretty much makes it out as if don't have the brain capacity to do it myself but in nicer words). She has used the excuse that she doesn't want to waste the rest of her night with me, the cat box is too full for her to do it (she'll gag), leave it until the weekend, we're moving out soon anyways why bother, etc.
- She gets mad at me for things I wouldn't get mad at her for. Mind, I'm a very easy going guy but it's really irritating getting chewed out for something I feel isn't a big deal and had seen her do the week before.
Now, the simplest (well, least work towards the relationship) route would be to break up with her but she has a lot of qualities I like about her and she's been known to change herself in the past when I come up with issues so I decided I'd man up and try talking to her about it and see if she can change these aspects about herself.
Any advice how I should go about this? I'm known for balking under pressure with confrontation so anything helps.
Thanks!
Something was still bugging me though, wasn't sure what it was until I read this thread:
http://forums.penny-arcade.com/showthread.php?t=97182
While my situation isn't nearly as bad as any of the worst there I am definitely able to recognise several of the warning signs cited within, these include but probably aren't limited to:
- She needs to do everything with me. She claims this isn't true and sometimes it isn't but often I will feel guilt tripped into spending time with her. (IE: Her: "What do you want to do?" Me: "Play my game." Her: "oh....okay....") I don't feel I neglect her so this treatment seems undeserved.
Bigger case in point: she almost always expects me to follow her to the bathroom nowadays actually and gets pouty/locks herself in briefly/threatens suicide (obvious joke mind you but still annoying)
- If we go somewhere and she's not the center of my attention she tends to get upset. This isn't true 100% of the time, if we're at a relatives house or our common friend's house she deals but this is common in other places.
- She has used sex as a weapon. It could be reasoned that she's just joking when she does this but I know I'm too lovesick to actually know this or not so I'm taking it 100%, joke or not.
- I constantly do stuff for her, constantly. She asks me to get food, drinks, store runs and massages for her. This happens when I'm in the middle of doing my own thing (often if she feels we should be spending the time together instead). I have tried acting out against it and she just goes 'pleeeeease' or some other controlling tactic and I groan. I've at least gotten her out of the stage where she'll just try saying "I'm thirsty" aloud and expect me to do something about it >.>
Mind you she'll do things for me if I ask her to but I'm pretty independant so I don't, so that's not an issue.
- I do the majority of the work. She's got a part time job (3 hours a day, 5 if you include transit...yes the transit here sucks that bad) and I've got a full time job yet I'm the one who constantly makes dinner, cleans the dishes, does the other chores. She does the budgeting (which I started letting her do because she felt useless when she didn't have a job and now pretty much makes it out as if don't have the brain capacity to do it myself but in nicer words). She has used the excuse that she doesn't want to waste the rest of her night with me, the cat box is too full for her to do it (she'll gag), leave it until the weekend, we're moving out soon anyways why bother, etc.
- She gets mad at me for things I wouldn't get mad at her for. Mind, I'm a very easy going guy but it's really irritating getting chewed out for something I feel isn't a big deal and had seen her do the week before.
Now, the simplest (well, least work towards the relationship) route would be to break up with her but she has a lot of qualities I like about her and she's been known to change herself in the past when I come up with issues so I decided I'd man up and try talking to her about it and see if she can change these aspects about herself.
Any advice how I should go about this? I'm known for balking under pressure with confrontation so anything helps.
Thanks!
Sipex on
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That said, the plan is currently to state my mandate, tell her all the things that bug me and let her know that I'm going to straight up tell her when she's doing one of them from now on. If she doesn't get better then I gotta think about breaking up.
While this is important, it's just as important to realize that her behavior is the cause of and the effect of your reactions to her behavior. It's common to say that you're enabling her, but that's a loaded word because it shifts the blame to you, when really there is no blame.
What I mean is, you don't have a problem, she doesn't have a problem, your relationship has a problem. If your approach to talking to her is accusatory, odds are she's not going to respond well.
Sorry, could you just elaborate on that a bit? I just don't understand.
Also, I gotta run, leave your opinions/advice/comments and I'll post back by tomorrow.
The next day the wife comes in and says, "My husband never responds to me." The counselor asks, "How do you deal with that?" and the wife replies, "I nag." The behavior has been described as, "My husband withdraws, so I'm forced to nag."
Notice how whether nagging or withdrawing is considered bad behavior or a reasonable response depends on who is describing the cause-and-effect, but when seen from the outside they don't form a cause-and-effect, they form a recursive loop: A causes B causes A causes B -- nagging causes withdrawal causes nagging causes withdrawal.
What I'm saying is that you can't expect her to change her behavior without, likewise, changing how you respond to her behavior. If you respond to her pestering by giving in, don't expect anything to change.
Also, note a tendency to ascribe "madness or badness." The wife is a pestering nag, the husband is weak-willed. Your girlfriend is, fallaxdraco says, "... not very mature or emotionally stable." Maybe when your girlfriend describes you to her friends you're, "Unloving and unwilling to do things without being guilt-tripped." But all of these conceal and simplify a more complex relationship problem.
He is saying don't go "Honey here is my list of problems with you" and don't go off thinking that your enabling her by not making an issue of it before.
Best way to put is your both to blame. She should realize these things and maybe she does to a degree, but its hard not to get stuck in a pattern of asking for something and having it brought to you and things along that line. Your guys relationship is in a spot where you do stuff that makes her happy and bugs you because she is asking you because you are always willing to help, it makes her happy, and she doesn't realize it makes you unhappy.
So its important that you realize that its a pattern in the relationship that is bothering you and not anything she is doing in particular. A perfect example is the yelling at you for doing something she did a week ago. You are always going to be slightly hypocritical of certain situations because it doesn't seem right until your in a spot where "it makes perfect sense". So really if its something your not supposed to do, is it really wrong of her for confronting you on it, or was it bad of you not to care when she did the same thing. Who's fault is it to agree to go spot B.) together when you really wanted to go to spot A.) yourself. Yeah she didn't need to ask in that tone that gets you all the time, but nothing is really stopping you from growing a pair and making a point that this time you need to go do guy things.
Certain things won't be avoided and probably can't be changed or prevented. Certain people are more likely to ask for help. Certain people are more likely to be a bit clingy. Some people can't see past the bubble that is themselves. So make sure your not getting her into a defensive mode (accusatory issues) and present this as things you want to see changed in the dynamic of the relationship. But keep it goes both ways, you can't have a problem with her asking for help just because you never do. Just as much as clingy might be a detriment to a relationship, on the opposite spectrum is being "independent" in fact it can be harder on a relationship be cause it puts a lots of "I's" in said relationship.
What you probably need to do is figure out where each of you are at and what you expect out of the other. A lot of couple sit down and figure out who is doing the bills by figuring out who is better fiscally which bills are harder for the other to pay and so on. Whereas it sounds like you think you handed out a game to a homeless person so they would have something to do that didn't bother you when you walked down the street. If your working full time and you feel to tired to make dinner, maybe you can talk to her and see if she would be kind enough to help you on that. Maybe depending on what your cooking she can help. Some people are comfortable cooking and some aren't, and it isn't a male/female dynamic either. What it sounds like that you two let the patterns in the relationship form on their own with any real talks or compromises.
On the budgeting thing, it's actually the opposite of a menial task for me, before I let her handle it I was really strict about my money, I liked to know where it all went and how my bills were going to work out so giving her that responsibility was actually pretty hard for me but she was out a job at the time and wanted to feel more responsible for the relationship. It just irks me now that she acts like I can't handle it on my own and that I'd be completely lost without her financial guidance now.
That said I just tried being more assertive last night and it seemed to clear up a few issues without trying so I guess there a good example of your cause and effect there.
A few things will still need to be talked about but your advice seems to be the way to go.
Thanks!
To echo people here, her behavior could be the result of your reaction to her behavior. I'm guessing you're a pretty laid back guy who can easily let things go which is what makes this difficult. She thinks everything is okay and probably has little to no idea that you're feeling this way.
Definitely talk to her, but don't blame her. And in the future, when she does things like get upset if you don't want to go to the bathroom with her, don't give in. Even if you don't really care because eventually little things will start to bother you more.
- Not following her to the bathroom
- Making her ask if she wants something
- Asking her to get it herself if she gets a little trigger happy with the requests...especially so if she's in a better position to be getting whatever it is herself
- When she asks what I want to do and I choose I stick with what I chose. I don't change because she gives me the whole "well, that's not what I was hoping you'd say" kind of body language reaction.
She should be going to get her own drink, like a big girl, and offering you one while shes out there.
I dont really understand the follow her to the bathroom statement. What for?
The way you've described it sounds almost like babysitting rather than a relationship, I agree with fallaxdraco that she sounds immature. I think that giving her the budgetting is a really good idea, a little responsibility can go a long way.
Edit*
Sorry i didn't catch your last post before i posted.
...following her to the bathroom so you can talk to her while shes in there? Really? Man, I'm sorry but you're the friend character in a Romantic Comedy who is totally his girls bitch for every little thing. And now that you've realized it, you'll either be miserable because you're being her bitch or she'll be miserable because you aren't being her bitch. People and habits can bend and shift, but the kind of change this relationship needs would be like moving it to another country.
At the very worst I'll have stories for the forums.
:^:
I disagree. For starters, it's not a zero sum game. There is option C where he can stop being her bitch and they'll both be happier because of it.
The dynamics in a relationship can change in major ways (for better or worse), and triggering the change doesn't always have to involve a lot of hard work. A couple I know went through much of what's described in the OP, except everything was taken to the ridiculous extreme because the girlfriend suffers from emotionally unstable personality disorder. They were able to change their bad habits and make things work (although admittedly with the help of couples therapy) and are now happily married. I take that as evidence that there's quite a bit of hope for those of us who are comparatively sane.
It's true that you can't force the other person to change, but you can behave in a way that encourages them to improve themselves. Looks like Sipex has started doing that, and that's great.
This is classic "I'm worried about my intelligence, so I'm going to belittle someone else" behavior. I know, because I've done this to other people. It sucks when you think everyone else in the world thinks you're stupid, but this is not a good excuse for her to act this way. I think its part and parcel with the "I don't have a job/a good enough job, I must prove my worth in some other manner" mentality. For me, through therapy, I addressed it by realizing it was all in my head, and while I'm not a genius or anything, I'm trying hard not to let this chip on my shoulder come between me and relationships with other people, because, as is obvious to you, it can be quite off-putting to others.
Overall though, what Bliss 101 said.
Be sure that when she does the "What do you want to do", "Play my game" "oh ... okay..." bit that you don't take it as "spend time with me because what i want is more important", but, "im really fond of you and yes i would like to devote all of my time to you". That can be suffocating, to be sure, but she probably has the best intentions here and thinks she's showing her love to you by constantly wanting to be with you.
Speaking from a female perspective (femaleish, I guess), if she starts thinking about how she'd like to spend time with you after you've gone to work, it will be more upsetting to her if she suddenly can't. This may make no sense to you whatsoever -- you haven't said you would, she hasn't asked, but she might be dwelling on it. It might be helpful to give her some kind of schedule ahead of time (not a scripted one), but instead of saying "i want to play my game right now." you can say "well, tonight i think i'll play my game, but how about on thursday night we go for dinner and then go walk on the beach?" follow up your "negative" (though it's not a negative, you know what I mean) with a "positive".
Things to look forward to = A++++ -- "Today i have diarrhea but tomorrow I am sprouting wings and flying to the moon." See? You totally forget about the diarrhea.
I think i just have a lot to say about this because if I let myself just be completely what my brains tell me to be, I'd be fairly similar (bad, i realize this, but i keep myself in check). Except for the talking-down .. that's not cool, dude.
To clarify, I'm on the "stop being her slave" side of this -- but don't treat her like she's really the slaver while trying to stop it.
No crazy stories guys, sorry!
Thanks for the advice!
Wrong thread! That's in D&D