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Wheel of Time: Towers of Midnight

13468931

Posts

  • TofystedethTofystedeth veni, veneri, vamoosi Registered User regular
    edited January 2010
    taeric wrote: »
    shryke wrote: »
    taeric wrote: »
    shryke wrote: »
    Ender wrote: »
    WRT Rand:
    No, Rand isn't just LTT. He's every Dragon Reborn that's ever existed. A small difference.

    I suppose that does put a strain on the mind of a kid who used to herd sheep.

    Uh, no. Where's the evidence of this?

    He's only got 2 peoples memories in his head.
    He only had LT speaking in his head, but when he had his epiphany at the end of the last book, his memories go back forever across an infinite number of lives.

    Plus, all the talk from all of the other heroes when the horn was blown.
    I think you are taking that whole bit far too literally as "He remembers everything his soul has ever done" or something. Rereading it right now, I REALLY don't think it's that. It seemed more like a momentary epiphany. He "sees the whole world in his mind's eye" too but I don't think he's was or is omniscient either.

    The talk from the other heroes was the standard stuff we expect. The soul is reborn, but not the person. Not the memories, not the personality, not the body, nothing. That's the norm.

    The Dragon Reborn is LTT reborn. LTT come back from the dead, in some fashion. Not the soul of the Light's Champion come back (although it's also that) but this specific guy.

    It'll also probably be part of the answer to the whole "Live, Die, Live Again" thing.
    I can grab the book again, if you want. But it is quite specific that the reason he finds joy again is that not only did he get a chance to live again, but so could everyone he killed. That is the "gift" that they may live and love again.
    Even Liah?

    Tofystedeth on
    steam_sig.png
  • RaekreuRaekreu Registered User regular
    edited January 2010
    Lady Eri wrote: »
    clsCorwin wrote: »
    I don't see how they implied that at all. If anything they implied that the Dragon is successful every time around, or else Shaitan would win and existence would cease to be.

    It's been implied many times by agents of the Dark One that he has been converted or killed. Perhaps not in this portion of the cycle, but in previous turning nontheless. Whether this is true or not, I don't know.

    Most striking example is what happened in the prologue of the eye of the world - LTT leads the strike against the DO and 'wins', only to have the DO drive him and all other male channelers hopelessly and incurably insane. Ishamael then shows up and uses the true power to push the crazy aside long enough for LTT to realize that 1) he is totally batshit insane and 2) at least one of the forsaken made it past the battle without getting trapped in the seal.

    Points go to the DO in that little exchange. I mean, you couldn't even call it a Pyrrhic victory - the seal didn't work as planned, the world is being actively destroyed, and the DO's agents are still out in the world. The only thing I can think to call it is one hell of a contingency plan.

    Raekreu on
  • taerictaeric Registered User, ClubPA regular
    edited January 2010
    [QUOTE=shryke;13103458
    Yes I know.

    But none of that indicates a memory dump of all his past lives into his head.
    [/QUOTE]
    I think I missed something. I don't believe he will have the memories of every life stuck in his head forever. I don't doubt that he remembered them all, though. Even the heroes seemed to have a standard memory that just happens to cross lives. I would imagine that is a brief moment of what Rand felt. He is different, in that he does have all of LTT's memories perfectly intact. Closest to that is Birgette, as she isn't Birgette reborn, but is Birgette. (If that makes sense.)

    Also, I think it would be interesting to see Collander wielded by three people using the three power sources.

    taeric on
  • XeddicusXeddicus Registered User regular
    edited January 2010
    Raekreu wrote: »
    Lady Eri wrote: »
    clsCorwin wrote: »
    I don't see how they implied that at all. If anything they implied that the Dragon is successful every time around, or else Shaitan would win and existence would cease to be.

    It's been implied many times by agents of the Dark One that he has been converted or killed. Perhaps not in this portion of the cycle, but in previous turning nontheless. Whether this is true or not, I don't know.

    Most striking example is what happened in the prologue of the eye of the world - LTT leads the strike against the DO and 'wins', only to have the DO drive him and all other male channelers hopelessly and incurably insane. Ishamael then shows up and uses the true power to push the crazy aside long enough for LTT to realize that 1) he is totally batshit insane and 2) at least one of the forsaken made it past the battle without getting trapped in the seal.

    Points go to the DO in that little exchange. I mean, you couldn't even call it a Pyrrhic victory - the seal didn't work as planned, the world is being actively destroyed, and the DO's agents are still out in the world. The only thing I can think to call it is one hell of a contingency plan.

    Well, the seals were meant to hold the DO, not the Forsaken. The fact they were there was just a bonus. So their plan worked, just with some very major collateral damage. So I'd say Pyrrhic Victory applies to it. The Shadow would have consumed the world if they hadn't of 'won'. Granted, it wasn't stopped for all time, but war pretty much never is and they'd remained mostly Shadow Free for a good while.

    Of course, mostly isn't totally so I suppose it's a matter of degrees of success. Now that I think about it more I suppose you may be right. :P

    Re: Callandor and 3 power sources- Neat idea, but in the end I don't think it would really do anything since it only amplifies the male half of the True Source. So the True Power and female half would just be there. Unless, of course, it doesn't work out that way...

    Xeddicus on
    "For no one - no one in this world can you trust. Not men. Not women. Not beasts...this you can trust."
  • shrykeshryke Member of the Beast Registered User regular
    edited January 2010
    taeric wrote: »
    [QUOTE=shryke;13103458
    Yes I know.

    But none of that indicates a memory dump of all his past lives into his head.
    I think I missed something. I don't believe he will have the memories of every life stuck in his head forever. I don't doubt that he remembered them all, though. Even the heroes seemed to have a standard memory that just happens to cross lives. I would imagine that is a brief moment of what Rand felt. He is different, in that he does have all of LTT's memories perfectly intact. Closest to that is Birgette, as she isn't Birgette reborn, but is Birgette. (If that makes sense.)
    [/QUOTE]

    Yeah, I think Birgette (as she is now) is a much closer approximation of what Rand is.

    shryke on
  • fjafjanfjafjan Registered User
    edited January 2010
    shryke wrote: »
    taeric wrote: »
    I can grab the book again, if you want. But it is quite specific that the reason he finds joy again is that not only did he get a chance to live again, but so could everyone he killed. That is the "gift" that they may live and love again.
    Yes I know.

    But none of that indicates a memory dump of all his past lives into his head.
    " wrote:
    That was the answer. It all swept over him, lives lived, mistakes made, love changing everything. He saw the entire world in his minds eye, lit by the glow in his hand. he remembered lives, hundreds of them, thousands of them, stretching to infinity. He remembered love, and peace, and joy, and hope
    So yeah. There's that

    fjafjan on
    Yepp, THE Fjafjan (who's THE fjafjan?)
    - "Proving once again the deadliest animal of all ... is the Zoo Keeper" - Philip J Fry
  • shrykeshryke Member of the Beast Registered User regular
    edited January 2010
    fjafjan wrote: »
    shryke wrote: »
    taeric wrote: »
    I can grab the book again, if you want. But it is quite specific that the reason he finds joy again is that not only did he get a chance to live again, but so could everyone he killed. That is the "gift" that they may live and love again.
    Yes I know.

    But none of that indicates a memory dump of all his past lives into his head.
    " wrote:
    That was the answer. It all swept over him, lives lived, mistakes made, love changing everything. He saw the entire world in his minds eye, lit by the glow in his hand. he remembered lives, hundreds of them, thousands of them, stretching to infinity. He remembered love, and peace, and joy, and hope
    So yeah. There's that

    Uh, what?

    That quote is easily seen as being metaphorical.

    Unless, as I said, you truly believe he had a moment of complete omniscience or something. (Which is also possible but still doesn't argue against the point.)

    shryke on
  • fjafjanfjafjan Registered User
    edited January 2010
    shryke wrote: »
    fjafjan wrote: »
    shryke wrote: »
    taeric wrote: »
    I can grab the book again, if you want. But it is quite specific that the reason he finds joy again is that not only did he get a chance to live again, but so could everyone he killed. That is the "gift" that they may live and love again.
    Yes I know.

    But none of that indicates a memory dump of all his past lives into his head.
    " wrote:
    That was the answer. It all swept over him, lives lived, mistakes made, love changing everything. He saw the entire world in his minds eye, lit by the glow in his hand. he remembered lives, hundreds of them, thousands of them, stretching to infinity. He remembered love, and peace, and joy, and hope
    So yeah. There's that

    Uh, what?

    That quote is easily seen as being metaphorical.

    Unless, as I said, you truly believe he had a moment of complete omniscience or something. (Which is also possible but still doesn't argue against the point.)
    Why the hell would it be metaphorical? How would it be metaphorical? It seems a pretty fair argument that he had a memory dump in his head, since we havn't seen him since we can't be sure either way. but that "none of that indicates" is pretty wrong, this clearly indicates it, but it's not certain.

    fjafjan on
    Yepp, THE Fjafjan (who's THE fjafjan?)
    - "Proving once again the deadliest animal of all ... is the Zoo Keeper" - Philip J Fry
  • TofystedethTofystedeth veni, veneri, vamoosi Registered User regular
    edited January 2010
    fjafjan wrote: »
    shryke wrote: »
    fjafjan wrote: »
    shryke wrote: »
    taeric wrote: »
    I can grab the book again, if you want. But it is quite specific that the reason he finds joy again is that not only did he get a chance to live again, but so could everyone he killed. That is the "gift" that they may live and love again.
    Yes I know.

    But none of that indicates a memory dump of all his past lives into his head.
    " wrote:
    That was the answer. It all swept over him, lives lived, mistakes made, love changing everything. He saw the entire world in his minds eye, lit by the glow in his hand. he remembered lives, hundreds of them, thousands of them, stretching to infinity. He remembered love, and peace, and joy, and hope
    So yeah. There's that

    Uh, what?

    That quote is easily seen as being metaphorical.

    Unless, as I said, you truly believe he had a moment of complete omniscience or something. (Which is also possible but still doesn't argue against the point.)
    Why the hell would it be metaphorical? How would it be metaphorical? It seems a pretty fair argument that he had a memory dump in his head, since we havn't seen him since we can't be sure either way. but that "none of that indicates" is pretty wrong, this clearly indicates it, but it's not certain.
    Remembering all your previous lives isn't omniscience. It's just a lot of experience. i doubt he remembers all that now. It's probably mostly faded like Birgette's, or the Wise Ones who go through the 3 rings thingy on their first trip through Rhuidean.

    Tofystedeth on
    steam_sig.png
  • fjafjanfjafjan Registered User
    edited January 2010
    fjafjan wrote: »
    shryke wrote: »
    fjafjan wrote: »
    " wrote:
    That was the answer. It all swept over him, lives lived, mistakes made, love changing everything. He saw the entire world in his minds eye, lit by the glow in his hand. he remembered lives, hundreds of them, thousands of them, stretching to infinity. He remembered love, and peace, and joy, and hope
    So yeah. There's that

    Uh, what?

    That quote is easily seen as being metaphorical.

    Unless, as I said, you truly believe he had a moment of complete omniscience or something. (Which is also possible but still doesn't argue against the point.)
    Why the hell would it be metaphorical? How would it be metaphorical? It seems a pretty fair argument that he had a memory dump in his head, since we havn't seen him since we can't be sure either way. but that "none of that indicates" is pretty wrong, this clearly indicates it, but it's not certain.
    Remembering all your previous lives isn't omniscience. It's just a lot of experience. i doubt he remembers all that now. It's probably mostly faded like Birgette's, or the Wise Ones who go through the 3 rings thingy on their first trip through Rhuidean.
    Oh no doubt, I don't think he will able to access information from any age, but I think we can expect him to know a fair bit of more stuff now, like random stuff from previous lives and the Age of Legends.

    fjafjan on
    Yepp, THE Fjafjan (who's THE fjafjan?)
    - "Proving once again the deadliest animal of all ... is the Zoo Keeper" - Philip J Fry
  • shrykeshryke Member of the Beast Registered User regular
    edited January 2010
    fjafjan wrote: »
    shryke wrote: »
    fjafjan wrote: »
    shryke wrote: »
    taeric wrote: »
    I can grab the book again, if you want. But it is quite specific that the reason he finds joy again is that not only did he get a chance to live again, but so could everyone he killed. That is the "gift" that they may live and love again.
    Yes I know.

    But none of that indicates a memory dump of all his past lives into his head.
    " wrote:
    That was the answer. It all swept over him, lives lived, mistakes made, love changing everything. He saw the entire world in his minds eye, lit by the glow in his hand. he remembered lives, hundreds of them, thousands of them, stretching to infinity. He remembered love, and peace, and joy, and hope
    So yeah. There's that

    Uh, what?

    That quote is easily seen as being metaphorical.

    Unless, as I said, you truly believe he had a moment of complete omniscience or something. (Which is also possible but still doesn't argue against the point.)
    Why the hell would it be metaphorical? How would it be metaphorical? It seems a pretty fair argument that he had a memory dump in his head, since we havn't seen him since we can't be sure either way. but that "none of that indicates" is pretty wrong, this clearly indicates it, but it's not certain.
    Why the hell would it be literal?

    It takes place in an intensely personal "in his head" type scene. Metaphor is not out of place here. He comes to his conclusion and he "sees in his mind's eye" which doesn't have to mean LITERALLY sees but rather can imagine or see metaphorically. His revelation "shows" him (metaphorically) that lives are full of happiness and joy and love and carebears and all that shit and that this is why we live again and again.

    Could go either way really, we'll see next book.


    Regardless even if it is literal it's still not a refutation of him being LTT specifically come back. LTT is, after all, the only voice in his head. And as TGS goes on, we see that Rand and LTT are becoming one. Hell, the impetus for his whole mutual suicide pact with existence is his guilt over LTT killing Ilyena. Or, rather, him killing his wife.

    shryke on
  • taerictaeric Registered User, ClubPA regular
    edited January 2010
    shryke wrote: »
    Yeah, I think Birgette (as she is now) is a much closer approximation of what Rand is.

    Right, and she remembers much of her past lives. They are just so long ago as to be irrelevant to anything happening now. (Though... dangit, now I can not remember about exactly when her last life was. It seems she was alive during the Age of Legends, as Moghedian knew who she was even before she herself did. Grr... will pay attention as I get to that book during my rereads. I must say having these books in ebook form is frigg'in awesome. Quite nice to have them all easily accessed.)

    I am curious why you are certain that scene wasn't literal. I see no reason to think it wasn't so. We are talking about a point where he had pulled more of the power than any other being has ever held, period. Probably even as part of a group. And, since we are talking about a magical world... :) (Also notes, he doesn't "see" them, he remembers them. A bit more personal.)

    taeric on
  • shrykeshryke Member of the Beast Registered User regular
    edited January 2010
    taeric wrote: »
    shryke wrote: »
    Yeah, I think Birgette (as she is now) is a much closer approximation of what Rand is.

    Right, and she remembers much of her past lives. They are just so long ago as to be irrelevant to anything happening now. (Though... dangit, now I can not remember about exactly when her last life was. It seems she was alive during the Age of Legends, as Moghedian knew who she was even before she herself did. Grr... will pay attention as I get to that book during my rereads. I must say having these books in ebook form is frigg'in awesome. Quite nice to have them all easily accessed.)

    Yes, and that's why I said "Approximation".

    She's closer to Rand in that she is essentially Birgitte reborn. The hero herself come back to life. Not Birgitte returned as a new person, but Birgette herself returned.

    That's not the way it's normally done.The normal way is your soul gets spun out again as a new person. No memories, no nothing. A new life, a new body, a new person, a new everything.

    Rand is The Dragon Reborn. He's LTT come again. Not the soul spun out into a new body, but that specific guy, returned from the dead somehow in a different body. With memories and personality and madness and everything.
    I am curious why you are certain that scene wasn't literal. I see no reason to think it wasn't so. We are talking about a point where he had pulled more of the power than any other being has ever held, period. Probably even as part of a group. And, since we are talking about a magical world... :) (Also notes, he doesn't "see" them, he remembers them. A bit more personal.)

    Because while it may be a "magical world", there's rules. If he got ALL his past memories back, it came out of nowhere.

    Also, you should continue reading, as he then talks about how he knows he will never hear LTT voice again: "For they were not two men, and never had been." There's no mention of the other infinite number in his head. Because the whole thing is about his integration with LTT. With realising they are the same person.

    So, basically, there's only that 1 line in the entire series that implies that it is to be taken as him literally seeing the memories of everyone he's ever been.

    shryke on
  • Z0reZ0re Registered User regular
    edited January 2010
    shryke wrote: »
    taeric wrote: »
    shryke wrote: »
    Yeah, I think Birgette (as she is now) is a much closer approximation of what Rand is.

    Right, and she remembers much of her past lives. They are just so long ago as to be irrelevant to anything happening now. (Though... dangit, now I can not remember about exactly when her last life was. It seems she was alive during the Age of Legends, as Moghedian knew who she was even before she herself did. Grr... will pay attention as I get to that book during my rereads. I must say having these books in ebook form is frigg'in awesome. Quite nice to have them all easily accessed.)

    Yes, and that's why I said "Approximation".

    She's closer to Rand in that she is essentially Birgitte reborn. The hero herself come back to life. Not Birgitte returned as a new person, but Birgette herself returned.

    That's not the way it's normally done.The normal way is your soul gets spun out again as a new person. No memories, no nothing. A new life, a new body, a new person, a new everything.

    Rand is The Dragon Reborn. He's LTT come again. Not the soul spun out into a new body, but that specific guy, returned from the dead somehow in a different body. With memories and personality and madness and everything.
    I am curious why you are certain that scene wasn't literal. I see no reason to think it wasn't so. We are talking about a point where he had pulled more of the power than any other being has ever held, period. Probably even as part of a group. And, since we are talking about a magical world... :) (Also notes, he doesn't "see" them, he remembers them. A bit more personal.)

    Because while it may be a "magical world", there's rules. If he got ALL his past memories back, it came out of nowhere.

    Also, you should continue reading, as he then talks about how he knows he will never hear LTT voice again: "For they were not two men, and never had been." There's no mention of the other infinite number in his head. Because the whole thing is about his integration with LTT. With realising they are the same person.

    So, basically, there's only that 1 line in the entire series that implies that it is to be taken as him literally seeing the memories of everyone he's ever been.

    Its been pretty much confirmed that he got Lews Therein's memories seeping into his head because the taint 'broke' the barriers that keep lives and memories seperate in his soul.

    Z0re on
  • shrykeshryke Member of the Beast Registered User regular
    edited January 2010
    Z0re wrote: »
    shryke wrote: »
    taeric wrote: »
    shryke wrote: »
    Yeah, I think Birgette (as she is now) is a much closer approximation of what Rand is.

    Right, and she remembers much of her past lives. They are just so long ago as to be irrelevant to anything happening now. (Though... dangit, now I can not remember about exactly when her last life was. It seems she was alive during the Age of Legends, as Moghedian knew who she was even before she herself did. Grr... will pay attention as I get to that book during my rereads. I must say having these books in ebook form is frigg'in awesome. Quite nice to have them all easily accessed.)

    Yes, and that's why I said "Approximation".

    She's closer to Rand in that she is essentially Birgitte reborn. The hero herself come back to life. Not Birgitte returned as a new person, but Birgette herself returned.

    That's not the way it's normally done.The normal way is your soul gets spun out again as a new person. No memories, no nothing. A new life, a new body, a new person, a new everything.

    Rand is The Dragon Reborn. He's LTT come again. Not the soul spun out into a new body, but that specific guy, returned from the dead somehow in a different body. With memories and personality and madness and everything.
    I am curious why you are certain that scene wasn't literal. I see no reason to think it wasn't so. We are talking about a point where he had pulled more of the power than any other being has ever held, period. Probably even as part of a group. And, since we are talking about a magical world... :) (Also notes, he doesn't "see" them, he remembers them. A bit more personal.)

    Because while it may be a "magical world", there's rules. If he got ALL his past memories back, it came out of nowhere.

    Also, you should continue reading, as he then talks about how he knows he will never hear LTT voice again: "For they were not two men, and never had been." There's no mention of the other infinite number in his head. Because the whole thing is about his integration with LTT. With realising they are the same person.

    So, basically, there's only that 1 line in the entire series that implies that it is to be taken as him literally seeing the memories of everyone he's ever been.

    Its been pretty much confirmed that he got Lews Therein's memories seeping into his head because the taint 'broke' the barriers that keep lives and memories seperate in his soul.

    Where?

    shryke on
  • XeddicusXeddicus Registered User regular
    edited January 2010
    shryke wrote: »
    Z0re wrote: »
    -snip-
    Its been pretty much confirmed that he got Lews Therein's memories seeping into his head because the taint 'broke' the barriers that keep lives and memories seperate in his soul.

    Where?

    He's probably talking about when they captured Semirhage.

    Xeddicus on
    "For no one - no one in this world can you trust. Not men. Not women. Not beasts...this you can trust."
  • ReynoldsReynolds Raving Rabbit Registered User regular
    edited January 2010
    Which book was it that had zero Mat chapters? I hated that one. Thankfully the next had Mat take over at least half of the book, so at least RJ knew he'd fucked up. Mat's adventures this book were great, especially the over-planning.

    For one book split into three, this felt like it got about three times as much stuff accomplished as any other book. I think I need to be refreshed on a few points, though.
    What happened to the Gholem? Fain? I've forgotten how they were dealt with. For that matter, where's their Ogier friend (forgotten his name for the moment)? Did he just get married and go away for a bit? I thought Galad died after heading up the Whitecloaks, but he's still alive?

    Wasn't Morgase controlled by one of the Forsaken? Bryne and Gawyn and most everyone else seemed clueless, but I thought most people found out earlier. Also reminds me, if all the Aes Sedai reswore, guess that mean the two that were stilled have them back again.

    What happened to the one Aes Sedai whose twin sister died? I remember her being on a quest for revenge, I think she died too. I can only vaugely remember Noal...isn't he the grandson or cousin of one of the Horn of Valere heros? What happened to the other Wolfbrother?

    Those are all just random things I was wondering while reading, since I haven't kept up too closely with the books. I wonder...is there a site that lists all the sword forms/stances/attacks and their descriptions? I was always very interested in those, they were used pretty nicely by a WoT MUD I played on.

    Reynolds on
    OGueI9Q.gif
  • shrykeshryke Member of the Beast Registered User regular
    edited January 2010
    Reynolds wrote: »
    Which book was it that had zero Mat chapters? I hated that one. Thankfully the next had Mat take over at least half of the book, so at least RJ knew he'd fucked up. Mat's adventures this book were great, especially the over-planning.

    For one book split into three, this felt like it got about three times as much stuff accomplished as any other book. I think I need to be refreshed on a few points, though.
    What happened to the Gholem? Fain? I've forgotten how they were dealt with. For that matter, where's their Ogier friend (forgotten his name for the moment)? Did he just get married and go away for a bit? I thought Galad died after heading up the Whitecloaks, but he's still alive?

    Wasn't Morgase controlled by one of the Forsaken? Bryne and Gawyn and most everyone else seemed clueless, but I thought most people found out earlier. Also reminds me, if all the Aes Sedai reswore, guess that mean the two that were stilled have them back again.

    What happened to the one Aes Sedai whose twin sister died? I remember her being on a quest for revenge, I think she died too. I can only vaugely remember Noal...isn't he the grandson or cousin of one of the Horn of Valere heros? What happened to the other Wolfbrother?

    Those are all just random things I was wondering while reading, since I haven't kept up too closely with the books. I wonder...is there a site that lists all the sword forms/stances/attacks and their descriptions? I was always very interested in those, they were used pretty nicely by a WoT MUD I played on.

    The one without Mat is Path Of Daggers. On reread I found it alot better then I remembered the first time. It gets a bad reputation for a) having no Mat and b) being the first of the shorter/"less good" type of books in the series. On reread, it's got quite a few good things in it and, frankly, no Mat chapters is better then a bunch of chapters of Mat doing nothing. (If I wanted to get really mean, I'd point out that people bitching about no Mat chapters in PoD is pretty much the direct cause of Crossroads of Twilight being what it is)


    As to your questions:
    1) Gholam is still unaccounted for. Last we saw, it was chasing Mat in Ebou Dar, but it hasn't shown it's head since.
    2) Also not accounted for. Last seen in Winter's Heart I believe, when he kills him some renegade Asha'man. No clue where he is now.
    3) Loial was last seen in KoD. He's gone off to get the Ogier to fight at the Last Battle.
    4) Galad has taken control of the Whitecloaks who've left the Seanchan (the Questioners and the rest of the Whitecloaks are still with the Seanchan) and is both very much alive and is going to be meeting Perrin next book.
    5) Yes, Morgase was controlled by Rhavin. She escaped but is thought to be dead by almost everyone. Only a few know she is alive. She is currently posing as Maighdin, a maid servant to Faile.
    6) The Aes Sedai sisters were Vandene and Adeleas. Adeleas got murdered and Vandene gets killed later when Elayne is captured in KoD, but not before Vandene finds out who her sisters killer was and knifes the bitch right before she is killed herself.
    7) Noal is some old guy who Mat met in an alley in Ebou Dar. Is presumed to be Jain Farstrider, although he seems to be broken by something that happened to him to do with the Shadow and is hiding under an assumed name and refusing to admit who he is.
    8) Elyas, the other Wolfbrother and the guy who showed Perrin what he was, is alive and well and with Perrins ragtag group.

    shryke on
  • XeddicusXeddicus Registered User regular
    edited January 2010
    Reynolds wrote: »
    -snip-
    What happened to the Gholem? Fain? I've forgotten how they were dealt with. For that matter, where's their Ogier friend (forgotten his name for the moment)? Did he just get married and go away for a bit? I thought Galad died after heading up the Whitecloaks, but he's still alive?

    Wasn't Morgase controlled by one of the Forsaken? Bryne and Gawyn and most everyone else seemed clueless, but I thought most people found out earlier. Also reminds me, if all the Aes Sedai reswore, guess that mean the two that were stilled have them back again.

    What happened to the one Aes Sedai whose twin sister died? I remember her being on a quest for revenge, I think she died too. I can only vaugely remember Noal...isn't he the grandson or cousin of one of the Horn of Valere heros? What happened to the other Wolfbrother?

    Those are all just random things I was wondering while reading, since I haven't kept up too closely with the books. I wonder...is there a site that lists all the sword forms/stances/attacks and their descriptions? I was always very interested in those, they were used pretty nicely by a WoT MUD I played on.

    I don't remember all of that either. And I've been beated with much better answers anyway! But:
    His name is Loial. Galad didn't die, he killed the head of the whitecloaks and then...uh...became Lord Captain Commander? I think...

    Almost no one knows Morgase was being controlled. Mainly because they're not trying very hard to tell people.

    Pretty sure the twin sister found out who killed her sister, killed the murderer, then got killed herself. I think when Elayne tried surprising a bunch of blacks and got them all caught instead? God, this is just making me realize I need to re-read all these books...or read a nice summary....

    Xeddicus on
    "For no one - no one in this world can you trust. Not men. Not women. Not beasts...this you can trust."
  • Xenogears of BoreXenogears of Bore Registered User regular
    edited January 2010
    People who know Morgase was controlled.
    Rand
    People close to Rand that believe him, and some that don't.
    Mat (found out independently)
    Morgase's entourage.
    Maybe one or two of the Forsaken, but who cares about them.

    A bunch of the people who know don't believe Rand, even though when he did the deed he wasn't anywhere near insane.

    Xenogears of Bore on
    3DS CODE: 3093-7068-3576
  • ReynoldsReynolds Raving Rabbit Registered User regular
    edited January 2010
    The No-Mat book was definitely where I remember the series diving a bit. I found it hard to catch up for the last one before this, but I remember it picking things up significantly. And now, this is just great. So, I remember there being a lot of talk about movies and games and other media/licensing recently. I'd love to see them try to make movies of this...and I'd probably give the MMO a ton of my time and money.

    I don't know if this might interest anyone, but there's a strange modern fantasy book where Robert Jordan is the main villain's reason for becoming evil.
    "It's that damned Robert Nile, isn't it? You did all this just to . . . what? Get better sales? Corner the fantasy market?"
    "I've been in this business for thirty years!" * shouted, his mouth practically frothing. "And the man writes tripe! What's the justice in that? I've worked so hard. And he comes out of nowhere and sells a gazillion copies of complete crap! What's wrong with my books? What's wrong with people these days that they want unending series that never go anywhere? Nineteen pages on a harvest? Two hundred pages of every single step of every single character detailed? Are people insane?"

    "Nineteen pages on a harvest!?" has become the first thing I think of when warning someone about the WoT books ever since.

    Reynolds on
    OGueI9Q.gif
  • taerictaeric Registered User, ClubPA regular
    edited January 2010
    Nothing as cute as having to fall to demeaning/attacking another artist in your own work. That even managed to get me to give a few less shits about Roger Waters.

    taeric on
  • ApogeeApogee Lancks In Every Game Ever Registered User regular
    edited January 2010
    Just wanted to chip in that I finished tGS, and that shit's good. Much better thant he last few books, where everyone has just been... waiting. I like the new author's style.

    Apogee on
    8R7BtLw.png
  • HamHamJHamHamJ Registered User regular
    edited January 2010
    Holy shit.

    I finally got to read Gathering Storm.

    Awesome fucking book. My favorite scenes had to be:
    1) Mat's Leverage-esque plan.

    2) Verin's epic reveal. If anyone does a WoT phalla that should be a role. :P

    3) Rand's epitome is further proof that WoT needs to be made into an anime, so that this scene can be given the proper shounen music theme treatment it deserves.

    I wonder how much of the improvements in this book where Jordan realizing his character's had devolved into terrible caricatures and fixing it, and how much Sanderson bringing some fresh insight to the whole thing. Because it's amazing that the series has managed to make these people likable again.

    Thoughts on the future:
    Tuon (or Fortuoana or whatever her stupid name is now) needs to get a righteous beat-down.

    Gawyn needs to have Morgase show up and give him a smack down as well. This is necessary to complete the redemption of his character. It's astounding that Galad is currently the more likable of the two.

    Let's pray Elayne is not a bitch whenever she shows up again.

    HamHamJ on
    While racing light mechs, your Urbanmech comes in second place, but only because it ran out of ammo.
  • LindenLinden Registered User regular
    edited January 2010
    HamHamJ wrote: »
    2) Verin's epic reveal. If anyone does a WoT phalla that should be a role. :P

    It answered a few questions I'd had, that one. And yes, it really should.

    Linden on
    What if this weren't a rhetorical question?
  • TofystedethTofystedeth veni, veneri, vamoosi Registered User regular
    edited January 2010
    Linden wrote: »
    HamHamJ wrote: »
    2) Verin's epic reveal. If anyone does a WoT phalla that should be a role. :P

    It answered a few questions I'd had, that one. And yes, it really should.

    OK, I haven't read TGS yet but,
    Is the reveal that she is Black Ajah? cause he's kind of been telegraphing that. Or is it something else that just seems Black Ajahesque as a red herring?

    Tofystedeth on
    steam_sig.png
  • HamHamJHamHamJ Registered User regular
    edited January 2010
    Linden wrote: »
    HamHamJ wrote: »
    2) Verin's epic reveal. If anyone does a WoT phalla that should be a role. :P

    It answered a few questions I'd had, that one. And yes, it really should.

    Like, this would be the role pm:
    Verin: You are a member of the Black Ajah. Mafia win condition.

    If it is at least Day 5 and you are still alive, you may EPIC REVEAL all the other Black Ajah members in the thread. If you do, you automatically die that night but gain the Village win condition.
    Linden wrote: »
    HamHamJ wrote: »
    2) Verin's epic reveal. If anyone does a WoT phalla that should be a role. :P

    It answered a few questions I'd had, that one. And yes, it really should.

    OK, I haven't read TGS yet but,
    Is the reveal that she is Black Ajah? cause he's kind of been telegraphing that. Or is it something else that just seems Black Ajahesque as a red herring?

    You should really just read it, but if you really want to know:
    She's technically Black but is actually a light side mole and proceeds to EPIC REVEAL all the members of the Black Ajah. It is EPIC.

    HamHamJ on
    While racing light mechs, your Urbanmech comes in second place, but only because it ran out of ammo.
  • TofystedethTofystedeth veni, veneri, vamoosi Registered User regular
    edited January 2010
    Linden wrote: »
    HamHamJ wrote: »
    2) Verin's epic reveal. If anyone does a WoT phalla that should be a role. :P

    It answered a few questions I'd had, that one. And yes, it really should.

    OK, I haven't read TGS yet but,
    Is the reveal that she is Black Ajah? cause he's kind of been telegraphing that. Or is it something else that just seems Black Ajahesque as a red herring?

    You should really just read it, but if you really want to know:
    She's technically Black but is actually a light side mole and proceeds to EPIC REVEAL all the members of the Black Ajah. It is EPIC.
    Yes, I really should read it. I think my wife got it and Knife of Dreams for my birthday (tomorrow) so I can finish my readthrough.
    Wow, that is awesome. That also explains a lot, cause some of her actions were kind of confusing.

    Tofystedeth on
    steam_sig.png
  • Lady EriLady Eri Registered User
    edited January 2010
    Verin's scene was definately one of the best. Egwene had a couple good ones, Gawyn needs some redemption, I see where Tuon is going I suppose, but I am waiting to see how Perrin meets back up with the gang, and how the
    Mat Moiraine thing will turn out.

    Lady Eri on
    The Wheel of Calculadon turns, and then suddenly? Orbital lasers.
  • XeddicusXeddicus Registered User regular
    edited January 2010
    HamHamJ wrote: »
    It's astounding that Galad is currently the more likable of the two.

    I'll be damned. I never even realized Galad > Gawyn. Boy did Gawyn go to hell. Good call.

    Xeddicus on
    "For no one - no one in this world can you trust. Not men. Not women. Not beasts...this you can trust."
  • frandelgearslipfrandelgearslip 457670Registered User regular
    edited January 2010
    Xeddicus wrote: »
    HamHamJ wrote: »
    It's astounding that Galad is currently the more likable of the two.

    I'll be damned. I never even realized Galad > Gawyn. Boy did Gawyn go to hell. Good call.

    Thats true for so many characters. I never thought while reading the first two books that the following would end up true for me:

    Nynaeve >>> Perrin
    everyone else in books >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Elayne

    Robert Jordan writes some very unpleasant heroes. This was the first book I think where I actually liked Egwene.

    frandelgearslip on
  • Xenogears of BoreXenogears of Bore Registered User regular
    edited January 2010
    Perrin is basically fixed now.

    So are Nynaeve and Egwene. Probably.

    Gawyn is really annoying.

    Egwene: Rand didn't kill your mom.

    Gawyn: Ok.

    Two books later

    Egwene: Rand didn't kill your mom.

    Gawyn: Ok.

    Xenogears of Bore on
    3DS CODE: 3093-7068-3576
  • TofystedethTofystedeth veni, veneri, vamoosi Registered User regular
    edited January 2010
    Don't forget:
    G:"Siuan Sanche should never have gotten you mixed up in her plots!"
    E:"I dove headfirst into that trap!"
    G:"Still! You can't handle Aes Sedai plots!"
    E:"But I'm a plotting Aes Sedai and you're a moron!"
    G:"Blah blah I hate Rand"

    Tofystedeth on
    steam_sig.png
  • shrykeshryke Member of the Beast Registered User regular
    edited February 2010
    Gawyn has been a dickhole since the Tower Split. I liked Brynne pointing out what a whinny bitch who couldn't make up his fucking mind he was.
    HamHamJ wrote: »
    I wonder how much of the improvements in this book where Jordan realizing his character's had devolved into terrible caricatures and fixing it, and how much Sanderson bringing some fresh insight to the whole thing. Because it's amazing that the series has managed to make these people likable again.

    I don't see why this comes up. The characters haven't really changed at all really between KoD and TGS. I mean, they evolve as the story goes on, but there's no big massive change where suddenly the characters in TGS are completely different.

    Well, other then Mat feeling a bit off in how he was written.

    shryke on
  • Dread Pirate ArbuthnotDread Pirate Arbuthnot OMG WRIGGLY T O X O P L A S M O S I SRegistered User regular
    edited February 2010
    Question
    In the 2nd book, Verin meets up with Rand and crew, I think. She says: Moiraine sent me. Moiraine later says: I didn't send Verin. One of them lied. Neither of them are Black Ajah. Jordan swore this was a plot point and would come back later. Does it?

    Dread Pirate Arbuthnot on
  • SelnerSelner Registered User regular
    edited February 2010
    Question
    In the 2nd book, Verin meets up with Rand and crew, I think. She says: Moiraine sent me. Moiraine later says: I didn't send Verin. One of them lied. Neither of them are Black Ajah. Jordan swore this was a plot point and would come back later. Does it?

    Answer:
    Verin is technically Black Ajah, and is capable of lying. She intentionally tells a very obvious lie to Egwene (her dress being a different color than it is or something) to start the Reveal in TGS.

    Selner on
  • adejaanadejaan Registered User regular
    edited February 2010
    If anyone actually does want to run a WoT Phalla, let me know. I started writing some roles for one a long time ago and never got around to finishing them...although they might need some tweaking, I think I had Elaida as a vigilante in the Tower kitchens or something.

    adejaan on
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
  • Dread Pirate ArbuthnotDread Pirate Arbuthnot OMG WRIGGLY T O X O P L A S M O S I SRegistered User regular
    edited February 2010
    Selner wrote: »
    Question
    In the 2nd book, Verin meets up with Rand and crew, I think. She says: Moiraine sent me. Moiraine later says: I didn't send Verin. One of them lied. Neither of them are Black Ajah. Jordan swore this was a plot point and would come back later. Does it?

    Answer:
    Verin is technically Black Ajah, and is capable of lying. She intentionally tells a very obvious lie to Egwene (her dress being a different color than it is or something) to start the Reveal in TGS.

    Doesn't Verin
    think to herself that she's not of the Black in something like Book 8, when she's working outside Cairhien?

    I don't mind spoilers, I won't be reading these books for a looong time but this has always bothered me.

    Dread Pirate Arbuthnot on
  • XeddicusXeddicus Registered User regular
    edited February 2010
    Selner wrote: »
    Question
    In the 2nd book, Verin meets up with Rand and crew, I think. She says: Moiraine sent me. Moiraine later says: I didn't send Verin. One of them lied. Neither of them are Black Ajah. Jordan swore this was a plot point and would come back later. Does it?

    Answer:
    Verin is technically Black Ajah, and is capable of lying. She intentionally tells a very obvious lie to Egwene (her dress being a different color than it is or something) to start the Reveal in TGS.

    Doesn't Verin
    think to herself that she's not of the Black in something like Book 8, when she's working outside Cairhien?

    I don't mind spoilers, I won't be reading these books for a looong time but this has always bothered me.

    Well
    I don't recall her thinking that or not, but even if she did she's only technically Black. As in she swore the oaths, but she doesn't actually believe in what the DO etc is doing and is fighting against them from the inside. So she may think of herself as Light side on occasion (or constantly) even to herself.

    Xeddicus on
    "For no one - no one in this world can you trust. Not men. Not women. Not beasts...this you can trust."
  • galenbladegalenblade Registered User regular
    edited February 2010
    Selner wrote: »
    Question
    In the 2nd book, Verin meets up with Rand and crew, I think. She says: Moiraine sent me. Moiraine later says: I didn't send Verin. One of them lied. Neither of them are Black Ajah. Jordan swore this was a plot point and would come back later. Does it?

    Answer:
    Verin is technically Black Ajah, and is capable of lying. She intentionally tells a very obvious lie to Egwene (her dress being a different color than it is or something) to start the Reveal in TGS.

    Doesn't Verin
    think to herself that she's not of the Black in something like Book 8, when she's working outside Cairhien?

    I don't mind spoilers, I won't be reading these books for a looong time but this has always bothered me.
    You're thinking of when she used something like Compulsion on Beldeine. That POV very deliberately skirts her Ajah thoughts, and there was one bit where she internally justified a half-truth that led a lot of people to think she wasn't Black. But it didn't prove much either way.

    galenblade on
    linksig.jpg
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