I'm not that much of a coop player so I never noticed any difference between 1 and 2, I've basically only gone through the campaigns once or twice in both games so I'm not in a position to judge.
But spawning two or even three special infected at the same time is still in the random number generator zone to me. There's no real planning behind it, just syncing the spawns up.
This advertised smart and decision making AID which I've heard much talk about I've yet to see though. As it is now there's little difference between the AI in L4D compared to any other shooter out there.
The fact that it's at least that random is exactly what makes the game different. Sure, it may be a random number generator, but that still means that human brains will personify it as some hateful deity. It's like the dice gods. The horrible, horrible dice gods.
Different from games where everything is scripted/spawn chosen in advance.
SI work much better together in L4D2. Whereas in L4D hunters pounced on their own (a survivor guarded by his 3 friends, it's like I'm playing versus with newcomers) they'll have the SI attack together on the same spots (spit). That's one reason why campaign is harder (and more fun).
Haven't really had a problem with Dark Carnival 4 gauntlet on both campaign and versus - I guess I got lucky there like some have been lucky with the rollercoaster gauntlet which I find much worse to traverse.
Meh. I'm just not impressed by the fact that they randomize the spawns between 2-3 spots instead of choosing in advance where they should go (ie 1 spot). This is indeed pretty exclusive and works out great, but it doesn't grant the whole AI-Director facade.
[EDIT] I will now state the fact that I have way too many hours played and love the games before the rampant fanboyism starts. My point is merely that the AID is highly overrated.
Movitz on
0
ZephosClimbin in yo ski lifts, snatchin your people up.MichiganRegistered Userregular
I'm on the verge of hating this game. I got the gnome all the way to the stadium safe house. Zombies were swarming us on all sides. We all rush inside right into the face of a mother fucking witch that was in the god damned safe house. She freaks and starts tearing us up, I hurl the gnome through the safe house door inside to safety and start unloading on her. Then as she starts her death animation I swivel in place and slam the door. Oh but here is the rage inducing part. As she stumbled forward dying she kicked the gnome right out the closing door.
trying to do anything with the gnome is the 2nd part of that image.
My first time through Dark Carnival, someone else wanted the gnome achievement and carried it all the way to the end. I'm not even that enthused by achievements, and I got one of the most sought after ones in literally the second campaign I played.
On the part in Hard Rain where you ride a short elevator down to the ground, we had a spitter spitting a pool right outside our elevator as a massive horde was closing in on us, forcing us to huddle in a corner in the elevator to avoid getting fried. Then she decided to suicidally run into us in the actual elevator just as the doors closed as we were scrambling to get out and avoid the horde. She died inside with us, the elevator door closed and we all died horribly as her corpse left acid all over the enclosed elevator.
It was pretty fun
Zzulu on
0
AegeriTiny wee bacteriumsPlateau of LengRegistered Userregular
edited November 2009
The actual AI of the infected (special infected) has really had a good boost. They coordinate their attacks and understand how one another work, so a spitter will throw acid into your path where a smoker is dragging you for example.
The only problem is the bot AI wasn't compensated in any way. So they are still the same idiots from the first game, facing things that are far more aggressive and intelligent. I feel sorry for them.
Honesty, people give the director way too much credit for being some sort of thinking entity. What the AID does is:
1. Choose from the two different locations at a given time to spawn hordes
2. If the survivors stand still for too long, spawn another horde.
3. In coop it also spawns special inf but coordination is pretty weak.
After the first month of L4D1 I just started thinking about it as a random number generator, because that's what it, basically.
Not that simple anymore.
On Dark Carnival 1 after leaving the motel and going through the low water area while coming up the hill to the safe room there was a tank in the parking lot. I was dead and watching in free roam telling the group where the tank was. The group was halfway up the hill deciding what to do with the tank. 5 zombies spawned on top of the hill after they had been there 15 or 20 seconds and ran down to hill to atack. All the other zombies as well as the tank just stayed in place.
Also, melee the tank on vs. There is no other proper solution anymore.
I don't mind the random hordes spawning, and I think it is a brilliant way to add to the tension.
I'm talking about a single zombie spawning literally and inch behind a player, already attacking. That shit is just cheap and really unnecessary to make the game challenging.
I don't think I've ever seen these insta-spawns that people are talking about. Whenever I see zombies coming from anywhere it's from someplace that I didn't have a visual on. Sometimes this means they're even running huge distances just to get to me. A good example of this is Swamp Fever final level, before the plantation house. If you get to the end of the road before entering the plantation (where the house is off in the distance), the zombies spawn from all the way back down the road and have to run for ages just to get to you.
I don't think I've ever had what I'd call a zombie insta-spawn behind me. They'll spawn out of LoS, and then rush me quickly (even if it's just a corner IIRC), but that's different.
Joined a random game last night, and entered the losing side of a game. My teammates were quiet and seperated, but when I suggested some strats they willingly followed me. In spite of my terrible decision-making, we ended up winning a few games, and worked quite nice as a team by the end.
The way this game can make a decent team out of 4 disorganized guys is quite amazing...
In other news, the charger is my favorite SI, but I pretty much suck at playing him. Sometimes the charger seemingly takes huge steps to avoid hitting the survivor in my path o_O
I guess I shouldn't charge from the sides until his hitbox is a tad less crazy
Edit: hunter-barrel-rolls are the best - happened to me twice as a hunter yesterday, and allowed a much faster recovery than a usual melee would.
As a European I can only talk to Brits, Nordic people, the Dutch and half of the Germans as those are the countries that speak English. When I'm playing with Italians, French or (worst case) Russians, fuhgeddaboudit.
So finding people that responds to normal conversation over here is REALLY hard. And this is only accounting for the language barrier and not the over all moronism of the earths population in general.
Needless to say, I mostly play with friends.
Well I'm a European too (live in Denmark), and haven't had much problems yet. Sure, I run in to the occasional guy who doesn't understand any English at all, but generally I've had decent luck with random people so far.
The hunter-barrel-rolls I mentioned can be seen here, by the way:
I wish you could leave your victim at will as a hunter. When I have someone hurt and I see his entire team coming at me, I'd really like to just get out of there and try another pounce later
I wish you could leave your victim at will as a hunter. When I have someone hurt and I see his entire team coming at me, I'd really like to just get out of there and try another pounce later
Hunters should be nailing the guys who stray from the crowd and doing massive pounce damage, not counting on being left alone for the necessary time to incap someone.
Either that or your teammates need to be helping keep the guy separated through booming/smoking/spitting/charging.
PeregrineFalcon on
Looking for a DX:HR OnLive code for my kid brother.
Can trade TF2 items or whatever else you're interested in. PM me.
I do hate it when they clowncar out of a closet that I just cleared out not five seconds ago
Perhaps there's a mod for that which reduces potential spawning areas/minimum distance from the player?
damnit zzulu
Oh fuck do I ever hate this behaviour as well. I'm a long time FPS player who is used to clearing shit to wipe out enemies so I don't have to worry about that direction anymore.
OMGWTF spawn from the corner I JUST fucking checked, when there is no conceivable way those zombies could come from there except for magical means, just ruins it sometimes.
I get that it's supposed to be cool and shit, and panic inducing, but all it does now it flip my rage switch and turn me into a zombie-tracking death turret.
trying to do anything with the gnome is the 2nd part of that image.
So glad i dont have to carry that fucker anymore.
Carrying the gnome in HL2 is way harder.
I haven't even attempted to try either.
I don't know. We did the gnome run and it didn't seem that hard.
Granted I wasn't the one carrying the gnome for most of the map, but I still got the achievement. :P
Main thing is to just toss him ahead, and where you can, dump him on the other side of crescendo events so you can pick him up later. The two difficult bits are probably the gates, and the finale.
I don't know. We did the gnome run and it didn't seem that hard.
Granted I wasn't the one carrying the gnome for most of the map, but I still got the achievement. :P
Main thing is to just toss him ahead, and where you can, dump him on the other side of crescendo events so you can pick him up later. The two difficult bits are probably the gates, and the finale.
When you said that you hadn't "attempted to try either", I thought you meant both of them (L4D2 and HL2), not that the HL2 was harder and also because of that I haven't tried it.
I do hate it when they clowncar out of a closet that I just cleared out not five seconds ago
Perhaps there's a mod for that which reduces potential spawning areas/minimum distance from the player?
damnit zzulu
Oh fuck do I ever hate this behaviour as well. I'm a long time FPS player who is used to clearing shit to wipe out enemies so I don't have to worry about that direction anymore.
OMGWTF spawn from the corner I JUST fucking checked, when there is no conceivable way those zombies could come from there except for magical means, just ruins it sometimes.
I get that it's supposed to be cool and shit, and panic inducing, but all it does now it flip my rage switch and turn me into a zombie-tracking death turret.
Yeah, it ruins immersion pretty hard.
To fix it would require some level alterations so there's always an area you can't plausibly clear out that'll allow zombies to come pouring in (a window?).
Honesty, people give the director way too much credit for being some sort of thinking entity. What the AID does is:
1. Choose from the two different locations at a given time to spawn hordes
2. If the survivors stand still for too long, spawn another horde.
3. In coop it also spawns special inf but coordination is pretty weak.
After the first month of L4D1 I just started thinking about it as a random number generator, because that's what it, basically.
This is an oversimplification.
There are actual commands you can use to turn on director statistics and see all that he is doing. There are a lot of things at work to determine the stress level of the players, including how long since they killed a zombie, how long ago and to what extent they received damage, team damage, etc. It uses all of these to determine when to spawn hordes, whether the action needs to increase or slow down, whether to give more health packs and useful items or not, whether to open simpler paths to the objective or not. Its not simply a timer until the next horde, and its not simply a number generator. It is literally calculating things to ensure the action and adrenaline ebbs and flows, theoretically to adapt to the skill levels of the players and make sure everyone is properly challenged.
Would someone explain to me how the German weapons work? I never encountered them before today and I've definitely played with Germans before. Are they like the bat, or does it depend on the lobby leader?
Anyway, it's annoying as fuck to have CS crap in my L4D2
Would someone explain to me how the German weapons work? I never encountered them before today and I've definitely played with Germans before. Are they like the bat, or does it depend on the lobby leader?
Anyway, it's annoying as fuck to have CS crap in my L4D2
Germany gets different weapons?
PeregrineFalcon on
Looking for a DX:HR OnLive code for my kid brother.
Can trade TF2 items or whatever else you're interested in. PM me.
Yes, because their censorship suck so they get reskinned weapons instead of gore from Valve in order to increase sales. Which sucks because apparently this abomination is now in my game as well.
Yes, because their censorship suck so they get reskinned weapons instead of gore from Valve in order to increase sales. Which sucks because apparently this abomination is now in my game as well.
You poor thing. That sounds just awful. AWFUL! You are a weenie.
Neva on
SC2 Beta: Neva.ling
"Everyone who is capable of logical thought should be able to see why you shouldn't sell lifetime subscriptions to an MMO. Cell phone companies and drug dealers don't offer lifetime subscriptions either, guess why?" - Mugaaz
Yes, because their censorship suck so they get reskinned weapons instead of gore from Valve in order to increase sales. Which sucks because apparently this abomination is now in my game as well.
You poor thing. That sounds just awful. AWFUL! You are a weenie.
Not really. It's basic Occam, reskinned shit is pointless and clogs up the game.
If Flippy is right and they are new weapons. That's a totally different story and that I can respect.
Yes, because their censorship suck so they get reskinned weapons instead of gore from Valve in order to increase sales. Which sucks because apparently this abomination is now in my game as well.
You poor thing. That sounds just awful. AWFUL! You are a weenie.
Not really. It's basic Occam, reskinned shit is pointless and clogs up the game.
If Flippy is right and they are new weapons. That's a totally different story and that I can respect.
Your a weenie because Flippy is right and also you were all like "Meh, it's just a random number generator >_>", which is a weenieish thing to say, because it's not a random number generator at all and it is the main thing that keeps the game so replayable.
Neva on
SC2 Beta: Neva.ling
"Everyone who is capable of logical thought should be able to see why you shouldn't sell lifetime subscriptions to an MMO. Cell phone companies and drug dealers don't offer lifetime subscriptions either, guess why?" - Mugaaz
Posts
What do you mean? Different from what?
SI work much better together in L4D2. Whereas in L4D hunters pounced on their own (a survivor guarded by his 3 friends, it's like I'm playing versus with newcomers) they'll have the SI attack together on the same spots (spit). That's one reason why campaign is harder (and more fun).
Haven't really had a problem with Dark Carnival 4 gauntlet on both campaign and versus - I guess I got lucky there like some have been lucky with the rollercoaster gauntlet which I find much worse to traverse.
[EDIT] I will now state the fact that I have way too many hours played and love the games before the rampant fanboyism starts. My point is merely that the AID is highly overrated.
trying to do anything with the gnome is the 2nd part of that image.
So glad i dont have to carry that fucker anymore.
On the part in Hard Rain where you ride a short elevator down to the ground, we had a spitter spitting a pool right outside our elevator as a massive horde was closing in on us, forcing us to huddle in a corner in the elevator to avoid getting fried. Then she decided to suicidally run into us in the actual elevator just as the doors closed as we were scrambling to get out and avoid the horde. She died inside with us, the elevator door closed and we all died horribly as her corpse left acid all over the enclosed elevator.
It was pretty fun
The only problem is the bot AI wasn't compensated in any way. So they are still the same idiots from the first game, facing things that are far more aggressive and intelligent. I feel sorry for them.
Not that simple anymore.
On Dark Carnival 1 after leaving the motel and going through the low water area while coming up the hill to the safe room there was a tank in the parking lot. I was dead and watching in free roam telling the group where the tank was. The group was halfway up the hill deciding what to do with the tank. 5 zombies spawned on top of the hill after they had been there 15 or 20 seconds and ran down to hill to atack. All the other zombies as well as the tank just stayed in place.
Also, melee the tank on vs. There is no other proper solution anymore.
I'm talking about a single zombie spawning literally and inch behind a player, already attacking. That shit is just cheap and really unnecessary to make the game challenging.
I don't think I've ever had what I'd call a zombie insta-spawn behind me. They'll spawn out of LoS, and then rush me quickly (even if it's just a corner IIRC), but that's different.
Perhaps there's a mod for that which reduces potential spawning areas/minimum distance from the player?
damnit zzulu
Can trade TF2 items or whatever else you're interested in. PM me.
I would never stop having nightmares
...
Never thought I'd say that.
Well I'm a European too (live in Denmark), and haven't had much problems yet. Sure, I run in to the occasional guy who doesn't understand any English at all, but generally I've had decent luck with random people so far.
The hunter-barrel-rolls I mentioned can be seen here, by the way:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HuLIj-VjDuY
Oh nvm, just read it. Hit them on their left hip.
Hunters should be nailing the guys who stray from the crowd and doing massive pounce damage, not counting on being left alone for the necessary time to incap someone.
Either that or your teammates need to be helping keep the guy separated through booming/smoking/spitting/charging.
Can trade TF2 items or whatever else you're interested in. PM me.
Oh fuck do I ever hate this behaviour as well. I'm a long time FPS player who is used to clearing shit to wipe out enemies so I don't have to worry about that direction anymore.
Hallway clear, check.
Bathroom clear, check.
Bedroom clear, check.
OMGWTF spawn from the corner I JUST fucking checked, when there is no conceivable way those zombies could come from there except for magical means, just ruins it sometimes.
I get that it's supposed to be cool and shit, and panic inducing, but all it does now it flip my rage switch and turn me into a zombie-tracking death turret.
My friend Keith was taking a dump once, and BAM, tank out of the tank if you know what I mean.
I haven't even attempted to try either.
I don't know. We did the gnome run and it didn't seem that hard.
Granted I wasn't the one carrying the gnome for most of the map, but I still got the achievement. :P
Main thing is to just toss him ahead, and where you can, dump him on the other side of crescendo events so you can pick him up later. The two difficult bits are probably the gates, and the finale.
The frying pan is cursed
Really? I actually find this hilarious so it doesn't bother me that much.
Also, I absolutely support a full clown-zombie mod.
wait what
who the fuck kicks for that
I frying-panned a Charger right in the face and got my achievement for that
and a satisfying bwonnggggg noise.
Can trade TF2 items or whatever else you're interested in. PM me.
Yeah, it ruins immersion pretty hard.
To fix it would require some level alterations so there's always an area you can't plausibly clear out that'll allow zombies to come pouring in (a window?).
This is an oversimplification.
There are actual commands you can use to turn on director statistics and see all that he is doing. There are a lot of things at work to determine the stress level of the players, including how long since they killed a zombie, how long ago and to what extent they received damage, team damage, etc. It uses all of these to determine when to spawn hordes, whether the action needs to increase or slow down, whether to give more health packs and useful items or not, whether to open simpler paths to the objective or not. Its not simply a timer until the next horde, and its not simply a number generator. It is literally calculating things to ensure the action and adrenaline ebbs and flows, theoretically to adapt to the skill levels of the players and make sure everyone is properly challenged.
nothing any of you say will change my opinion.
Anyway, it's annoying as fuck to have CS crap in my L4D2
Germany gets different weapons?
Can trade TF2 items or whatever else you're interested in. PM me.
You poor thing. That sounds just awful. AWFUL! You are a weenie.
"Everyone who is capable of logical thought should be able to see why you shouldn't sell lifetime subscriptions to an MMO. Cell phone companies and drug dealers don't offer lifetime subscriptions either, guess why?" - Mugaaz
Not really. It's basic Occam, reskinned shit is pointless and clogs up the game.
If Flippy is right and they are new weapons. That's a totally different story and that I can respect.
Your a weenie because Flippy is right and also you were all like "Meh, it's just a random number generator >_>", which is a weenieish thing to say, because it's not a random number generator at all and it is the main thing that keeps the game so replayable.
"Everyone who is capable of logical thought should be able to see why you shouldn't sell lifetime subscriptions to an MMO. Cell phone companies and drug dealers don't offer lifetime subscriptions either, guess why?" - Mugaaz