Hot tub died + snow storm = I'm fucked?

Erandus

Dudes, I need a miracle.

I recently bought a house with a hot tub. The hot tub has worked flawlessly. Until tonight. It's dead, and central Iowa is in the midst of the worst winter storm in roughly 15 years. I was actually going to go jump in it, and threw off the cover, and the control panel was dark. The water was still warmish, but I really have no way of telling how long it's been dead for. The last time I used it was Sunday night and it was working fine then. I checked the breaker already. I took off the side panel and stared dumbly at the guts for a few minutes, wiggled some wires, decided I didnt know what the fuck I was looking at and I was wasting my time. No cables were hanging loose obviously unplugged or whatnot.

Any rough ballpark figure on how long til this thing freezes? Is there anything I can do to avert costly doom here? I will be calling around pool/spa repair places to see if I can leave frantic messages, but it's obviously after business hours and a lot of places will be closed tomorrow what with our getting 14+ inches of snow. I assume that eventually I pull the plug on this thing and drain it to at least avoid it freezing and really dying on me?

So...

What the eff do I do now? Wait til the water goes icy cold and then yank the plug?

HALP?

YodaTuna

There's gotta be a way to drain the bastard. We had ours drained for significant portions of the winter.

Erandus

I'm sure there's a drain under there somewhere. I would hope to avoid that, though obviously i will pull the cork rather than let it freeze up.

I understand that troubleshooting this is ridiculously unlikely in these circumstances, but maybe the Jesus of hot tub repair is trolling the forum on a tuesday night with nothing better to do with his life.

Gafoto

If the cover is on it's probably a good long while until it actually freezes. Lucky for you, with the amount of insulation built into those things that large amount of water doesn't freeze quickly. Unfortunately it doesn't look like it's gonna be warm enough during the day to heat the water back up above freezing. I'd say drain it now so you can sleep soundly. Aren't you supposed to drain the things every few months to avoid the build up salt/fungus/goo anyways?

Erandus

My connundrum is if it can last until 10ish or so tomorrow morning when most of the hot tub service places open up.

illig

if it's below freezing, you shouldn't be concerned about the tub itself, but about the plumbing for the pump/heater... if those pipes freeze, they'll burst, and you'll have an expensive repair on your hands

and pipes can freeze quickly outside.

deadonthestreet

I'd drain it. Worst case you'll have to refill it and maybe some minor damage to the jets. Worst case if you don't drain it is buying a whole new pump.

Erandus

Yeeeahh...

Shit.

I guess I'll drain it. Will it drain the pluming/pipes very well?

illig

Erandus wrote: »

Yeeeahh...

Shit.

I guess I'll drain it. Will it drain the pluming/pipes very well?

if you don't have the manual, or can't find all the proper drain holes, i'd blow it out with a compressor, or replace the water with antifreeze... same thing that you do to winterize house plumbing

Erandus

I currently own neither of those.

Mom2Kat

If you are getting it fixed in teh next day full draining should not be needed. Just keep the lid on it. If you are worried about bursting pipes you can close the valve between the tub and the pump and just drain water from teh pump/heater/filter lines if you the valves int eh right places.

However before you go to all the trouble of draining I have a few things you can try. You said you tried the breaker, In my system I have a GFCI Right under the tub by the spa pack and also the main breaker at the main house panel. Make sure that neither are tripped (if you have 2) by moving them all the way left then back to the right to reset. The other thing to check is that on the spa pack itself there should be something labelled as the HIGH LIMIT Switch. Push that in and have it pop back out. Try turning your spa pack back on.

So as it goes right now you are getting now power with your spa pack turned to on? It could be that you spa pack will need replacing, it can be costly but if you know some basic plumbing and can read a wiring chart and know your breaker panels you can do it yourself, but yeah call a spa guy.

To drain the plumbing in your tub drain all the water out either through the drain probably located on the underside of your tub, or through a regular garden hose through siphoning. Once all the water is out close the large valve leading from you Spa Pack/Pump/Heater assembly. Using a large pipe wrench remove the piping from one end of your pump and one end of you heater. Drain water out. Open filter canister and take filter out. Try to scoop as much water out as you can. If you filter has Knife gates on either side of it close them after getting as much water out as you can, This will prevent it from draining into the pump/heater. Reconect piping to heater and pump, if you still have a small amount ofwater in there is should be okay as you have left room for the water to expand as it freezes.

Goofball

To echo what Mom2Kat said:

Keep the cover on it, close up the sides and don't worry about it. If you can't get it fixed tomorrow you should consider draining it and winterizing until you can get it repaired.

If it goes more than a day or two you can hang a 75 watt "trouble" light hung somewhere safe inside the tub and as long as the exterior is reasonably sealed and you leave the cover on it should keep everything warm enough to not freeze. IE: http://www.homedepot.com/h_d1/N-5yc1vZ1xg6/R-100354515/h_d2/ProductDisplay?langId=-1&storeId=10051&catalogId=10053

If you drain it you need to make sure that you remove as much water as possible from the plumbing or you risk freezing a piece of plumbing solid and cracking it. You will need to use something like a shop-vac to suck or blow the water out of the jets starting at the highest ones and working your way around the tub moving lower as you complete a circuit. A pretty good guide is available here: http://www.spadepot.com/spacyclopedia/winter.htm

Also, on a long shot double check your house panel breaker for the tub and fully switch it to off and then back on. Do the same at the GFCI Breaker/Disconnect that is located near the tub itself. One of them might have tripped for one reason or another and be sitting half open but look fully closed. Look on or near your spa pack inside the tub equipment bay for another/the GFCI that may need reset if the tub is older.

Erandus

Mom2Kat wrote: »

You said you tried the breaker, In my system I have a GFCI Right under the tub by the spa pack and also the main breaker at the main house panel. Make sure that neither are tripped (if you have 2) by moving them all the way left then back to the right to reset.

I'm not familiar with the GFCI acronym, though google tells me it's some sort of outlet with a breaker built in. If I do have one of these, it's somewhere under my deck. My hot tub is half recessed in my back deck, and the power seems to run back to my house somewhere. (I bought this house precisely 1 week ago, so I'm not totally clear on every wire and plug yet ) I'll take a look under the deck here in a few and see if I can trace the power line back to the house and see if it's plugged into an outlet on the exterior under the deck, or if it runs into the house proper.

Mom2Kat wrote: »

The other thing to check is that on the spa pack itself there should be something labelled as the HIGH LIMIT Switch. Push that in and have it pop back out. Try turning your spa pack back on.

My spa is surrounded by wooden paneling. When I had the panel covering the odds and bits pulled off I dont precisely recall seeing such a switch, but I'll go take it apart and have another look. I'll take a picture while I'm down there in case that's any help to anyone as well.

Mom2Kat wrote: »

So as it goes right now you are getting now power with your spa pack turned to on? It could be that you spa pack will need replacing, it can be costly but if you know some basic plumbing and can read a wiring chart and know your breaker panels you can do it yourself, but yeah call a spa guy.

I'm not 100% clear what a "spa pack" is. I assume it's the metal box with the electrical board and shit that looks like a tiny computer motherboard in it. I know the person before me replaced what he termed a "transformer box or something like that" on this spa, so I'm not sure if he's talking about the same thing you are. Again, I'll try to provide a pic or two shortly.

Mom2Kat wrote: »

To drain the plumbing in your tub drain all the water out either through the drain probably located on the underside of your tub, or through a regular garden hose through siphoning. Once all the water is out close the large valve leading from you Spa Pack/Pump/Heater assembly. Using a large pipe wrench remove the piping from one end of your pump and one end of you heater. Drain water out. Open filter canister and take filter out. Try to scoop as much water out as you can. If you filter has Knife gates on either side of it close them after getting as much water out as you can, This will prevent it from draining into the pump/heater. Reconect piping to heater and pump, if you still have a small amount ofwater in there is should be okay as you have left room for the water to expand as it freezes.

If I go with the draining route, I'll see how closely i can follow/figure out these directions.

I really appreciate the advice. I'll go out here shortly, shovel off the access hatch in the deck, get a picture taken, and see if I can trace the power line back to the house.

Erandus

Goofball wrote: »

If it goes more than a day or two you can hang a 75 watt "trouble" light hung somewhere safe inside the tub and as long as the exterior is reasonably sealed and you leave the cover on it should keep everything warm enough to not freeze. IE: http://www.homedepot.com/h_d1/N-5yc1vZ1xg6/R-100354515/h_d2/ProductDisplay?langId=-1&storeId=10051&catalogId=10053

This will keep the plumbing and pump and everything thawed? Seriously? I'm just highly surprised.

Goofball wrote: »

You will need to use something like a shop-vac to suck or blow the water out of the jets starting at the highest ones and working your way around the tub moving lower as you complete a circuit. A pretty good guide is available here: http://www.spadepot.com/spacyclopedia/winter.htm

Yeah I heard the shop vac recommendation elsewhere. I don't currently own one, and while I could normally pick one up, seeing as we just got over a foot of snow, it's a total crapshoot what stores will be open tomorrow and what won't. Also, I live in a town with a population around a thousand and the closest home depot type store is a 15 minute drive away on a perfect day and probably more like 30 tomorrow, assuming I don't end up in a ditch.

Goofball wrote: »

Also, on a long shot double check your house panel breaker for the tub and fully switch it to off and then back on. Do the same at the GFCI Breaker/Disconnect that is located near the tub itself. One of them might have tripped for one reason or another and be sitting half open but look fully closed. Look on or near your spa pack inside the tub equipment bay for another/the GFCI that may need reset if the tub is older.

Doulbe, triple, and quadruple checked the breaker on the desperate hope that it really was as simple as that. I'll look for this GFCI thing under the deck here shortly.

Goofball

I've seen the light thing suggested several times on hot tub specific forums and sites but never had to try it myself as I don't live in a location that is cold enough to worry about the water freezing without heat. All you have to do is keep enough energy going into the water and tub components to keep it above freezing. If you are worried you could try using an actual heat lamp as long as you keep it far enough away from anything that might melt.


If the tub is hardwired 240v and was installed in the USA in the last 10 years there should be an obvious disconnect panel/means at least 5 feet away but within plain sight of the tub and/or the tub equipment bay (NEC section 680.12) *UNLESS* the tub is a simple 3 prong plug in type 110v in which case the disconnecting means is unplugging it from the wall.

Erandus

Well, here's the pictures I was able to get:

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v487/griggen/DSCN3271.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v487/griggen/DSCN3272.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v487/griggen/DSCN3273.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v487/griggen/DSCN3274.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v487/griggen/DSCN3275.jpg

The power cables run under the deck and into some conduit that goes up the side of my house and enter directly into the back of my braker box.

Right now I'm just praying i get about 10-11 more hours out of it and someone out here to service the thing.

Nappuccino

Erandus wrote: »

Well, here's the pictures I was able to get:







The power cables run under the deck and into some conduit that goes up the side of my house and enter directly into the back of my braker box.

Right now I'm just praying i get about 10-11 more hours out of it and someone out here to service the thing.

I don't have much to add, but I did make the photos embeded for you. Good luck.


edit: or not...

Erandus

I didn't embed the photos on purpose because they're huge.

FyreWulff

Erandus wrote: »

Goofball wrote: »

If it goes more than a day or two you can hang a 75 watt "trouble" light hung somewhere safe inside the tub and as long as the exterior is reasonably sealed and you leave the cover on it should keep everything warm enough to not freeze. IE: http://www.homedepot.com/h_d1/N-5yc1vZ1xg6/R-100354515/h_d2/ProductDisplay?langId=-1&storeId=10051&catalogId=10053

This will keep the plumbing and pump and everything thawed? Seriously? I'm just highly surprised.

From my own experience, trouble lights can basically be used as a secondary heat lamp in any situation. They put out a lot of heat, partly because about 60% of the bulb is covered by a metal hood so the energy is bouncing off the back and focusing on everything in one direction

Fletcher

scoop out some of the cold water and replace it with hot water from a kettle or something?

hey it might work

or at least delay things

billwill

Shameless thread hijack!

Did you even buy Erandus dinner?

Sheesh. Kids these days.

Raynaga

Yeah, that was odd.

Erandus

Fletcher wrote: »

scoop out some of the cold water and replace it with hot water from a kettle or something?

hey it might work

or at least delay things

I thought about that. Don't think it's worth that kinda hassle. In half an hour the hot tub repair places I left messages with supposedly open, hopefully I get a call. The Weather Channel tells me we got 14.7 inches of snow last night and another inch or two will come down today, so the chances of any of those places actually being open are minuscule. If I dont get a call within 15 minutes after they open, I'm draining it.

MegaMan001

How did this turn out for you? Did you ever get it fixed? I'm in Rochester, MN and we also are being pounded by this blizzard.

Draeven

currently erandus is draining said hottub so he doesn't have to worry about it freezing etc. he called up the local hardware store thats 15 mins way and the guy he talked to drove a 4wheel drive truck to work that would normaly take 30 mins max and it took him 3 hours lol, so really this hottub shennanigans really came at the most in opertune time.

Erandus

Its draining right now. Its supposed to be above freezing on Saturday. If I can get a repairman to come look at it, maybe I'll get it fixed then, otherwise it may be shut down until spring.

Mom2Kat

Yeah The black Box is your spa pack and Heater below it. I did not notice your High Limit switch on it but there should be one there. It is supposed to turn the pack/heater off if the heater gets to hot to protect things and keep a fire from starting. I think the grey box to the left is an ozonator.

Here is a link to an awesome description on how to drain and winterize a tub. http://www.hottubessentials.ca/winterize-hot-tubs.htm this is the steps I use and tried to describe.

My tub is fully recessed into my deck and can be a pain to work on. Fortunatley it is an older tub with all of 5 jets and air buttons rather than electronic so farily easy to fix when I get under the deck.

Okay doing a google search on you pack it seems that the High Limit reset may be on your spa side control.

I ended up draining mine for the winter this year as next apring I am going to be so some siliconing on teh jets and replacing my filter canister. (previous owner had a pool canister on it and I really don't need on that large!) I absolutley love my giant always hot bathtub and there is nothing better than sitting int o tub at midnight on a summer night with some soft music on and the deck light out, watching the stars and fighting off your husband....

Erandus

My major concern is while I pulled the plug and let it drain, I have no way of getting every drop out of the lines and what have you. I'm sure there's still some water in the pump and some of the lines.

I'm expecting some damage, i'm just praying that at least simply draining it will minimize it.

Mom2Kat

It should, this is the first year that I unhooked the pump and filter and drained them but previous winters I just drained the tub and have never had a problem. But then I live in an area where even my fish pond usually is only frozen for about a week or 2 out of the winter.

Erandus

Thats at least somewhat reassuring. Thanks for all the advice in here. I'll drop an update in the thread when I get someone to look at it and get it fired up again.