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Unprotected Left Turns vs. Oncoming Right Turn
TechBoy
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Registered User regular
So I have no idea how to google this, but I was wondering who has the right of way in such a situation:
Essentially you have people people at the top making an unprotected left turn (from their perspective).
You also have people at the bottom looking at a green light and wanting to make a right turn.
Both lights are green, assume there's no traffic going straight.
In a perfect world, the left turners would take the top lane, the right turners would take the bottom lane, and everyone could then turn at the same time and we all get places faster.
But clearly the world is less than perfect so who has the right of way in such a situation? I'm curious mainly about CA because that's where I am, but I'm interested in all states if they have different rules.
Essentially you have people people at the top making an unprotected left turn (from their perspective).
You also have people at the bottom looking at a green light and wanting to make a right turn.
Both lights are green, assume there's no traffic going straight.
In a perfect world, the left turners would take the top lane, the right turners would take the bottom lane, and everyone could then turn at the same time and we all get places faster.
But clearly the world is less than perfect so who has the right of way in such a situation? I'm curious mainly about CA because that's where I am, but I'm interested in all states if they have different rules.
TechBoy on
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Never trust other drivers. @_@ The only time you've got the right of way making a left is with an arrow.
The first example here: http://www.dmv.ca.gov/pubs/hdbk/turns.htm#turnexamples seems to support this, as there's no legal requirement to complete a turn into the extreme right or left lane
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And no, in a perfect world, people would know how to drive and would yield to traffic. Never assume someone is going to do something or be somewhere when you are driving.
Actually, if I'm deciphering your pronouns correctly, only one left lane driving country has the rule where the car crossing the center line has right of way over the car turning without crossing the center line.
This is not necessarily true, legally. Unless it has changed since I took driver's ed (which was a long time ago) at least here in Texas you are supposed to turn into the closest lane. I even had a friend in high school pulled over for not doing so.
Although practically, this is true and in no way should someone assume they know what another driver is going to do until they do it.
If there's only one lane, I believe the right turner is supposed to yield (in the U.S., anyway.)
that's why we call it the struggle, you're supposed to sweat
I thought for safety the left turner was supposed to wait for the right turner to finish. Like others have said, even if the right turner has their blinker on, they don't have to make the turn. It's a douchey thing to do but that alone isn't enough of a defence if the lefty assumes he's clear to go and the righty decides at the last moment to just go straight, causing a traffic accident.
Vehicles turning left have to yield to oncoming traffic, and a traffic judge isn't going to care whether the oncoming car was turning, going straight or doing wheelies. Basically, the person turning left is going to be pretty screwed.
that's why we call it the struggle, you're supposed to sweat
They should, but again, don't count on it. That's actually one of my pet peeves with drivers - nobody knows how to do this.
If the Left Turner just blindly went, and crashed into the Right Turner, technically Right is at fault, but since Left is supposed to yield, Left would likely be cited as the cause.
edit: Think of a pedestrian example: a person crossing should wait for the OK signal, but if a car hits them, car will be at fault because they must yield to peds.
Either one has the right of way or the other one does.
I mean obviously you can't just tbone someone and then claim you had the right of way, but that doesn't really change anything.
that's why we call it the struggle, you're supposed to sweat
^This sounds correct to me. I always assume 2 things in situations like this - 1, the person making the right turn has right of way and 2, everyone else on the road is a dangerous moron with better insurance coverage than I've got.
These assumptions have served me well thus far.
Wouldn't less/no insurance than you would be more scary?
Anyway, here's from the Illinois rule book:
"[Cars must yield] to oncoming traffic when making a left-hand turn. If you enter an intersection while the light is green, you may finish your turn even though the light turns red."
This, but it's "yield to the right" at a four-way here, and we drive on the left.
So the driver turning right has the right of way (in our country).
This is pretty much it. The only time the left turn has the right of way it when only the left turn has a green arrow and everyone else is red. You pretty much are low man on the totem pole when you're making a left. Again, it doesn't matter what the right turn car does (turn/go straight) you're not supposed to go for the left hand turn until they are clear anyway.
This.
yeah i was going to say, when i got my license (3 years ago) you are only legally allowed to turn into the closest lane, turning into the far lane is illegal and can get you a ticket.
as for the OP's question, i am not sure who has the right legally, but i have always seen the person making the right hand turn having the right of way. as a person making a left turn of any kind you must be careful, so generally that just leads to letting everyone else have the right of way for your own safety.
Yes, but can short turn go during red?
In America a protected right (or a left onto a one-way) is legal during a red light as long as there isn't a sign prohibiting it.
Interesting fact: UPS has spent millions to develop route planning software that eliminates left turns from their delivery routes. Their delivery trucks turn right 90% of the time while performing their runs. This ultimately cuts their fuel use substantially.
have a splinter lane for those who turn right at the bottom, and they give way to the top cars.
uuugggghhhhh it makes the ergonomic side of me squirm
Most lights for left hand turns have a sign that says something to the effect of "Left Turn Yield on Green", unless they have a green arrow. At least in Texas.
Do note, though, that if the left turn jumps the gun and makes it to the turn before the right, and the right smacks into him, a good lawyer for left turn will point out Failure to Maintain a Proper lookout against the right turn. If the lawyer is decent arguer, the jury will side with them.
And last, this is why it's no longer referred to as an Accident, but a motor vehicle collision. In any collision, all parties share fault for the mere fact they were there. It sucks, but that's the state of the legal system for insurance companies. They've built themselves horrible holes to use against each other and lay-men.
tldr; This situation, right turn is right-of-way; but insurance people can still turn the tables.
But he would still have the right of way in the event of a collision with a driver who was coming from the other end of the intersection.
Interestingly enough, the manual only states this for right-of-way when turning left:
Changing lanes in an intersection is legal in most US states, and in Canada it seems (I haven't found anything that says otherwise), however, you could still get cited for "unsafe driving" if the police decides the lane change was unsafe.
Section on right-of-way:
•When you turn left, give the right-of-way to all vehicles approaching that are close enough to be dangerous. Also, look for motorcyclists, bicyclists, and pedestrians.
Safety suggestion: While waiting to turn left, keep your wheels pointed straight ahead until it is safe to start your turn. If your wheels are pointed to the left, and a vehicle hits you from behind, you could be pushed into oncoming traffic.
•When you turn right, be sure to check for pedestrians crossing the street and bicyclists coming up behind you on the right.
•On divided highways or highways with several lanes, watch for vehicles coming in any lane you cross. Turn either left or right only when it is safe.
Section on right and left turns:
1. Left turn from a two-way street. Start the turn in the left lane closest to the middle of the street. Complete the turn, if safe, in either lane of the cross street (shown by the arrows).
2. Right turn. Begin and end the turn in the lane nearest the right-hand curb. Do not swing wide into another lane of traffic.
3. Left turn from a two-way street into a one-way street. Start the turn from the lane closest to the middle of the street. Turn into any lane that is safely open, as shown by the arrows.
4. Left turn from a one-way street into a two-way street. Start the turn from the far left lane. Turn into either of the lanes that are safely open, as shown by the arrows.
5. Left turn from a one-way street into a one-way street. Start the turn from the far left lane. Watch for pedestrians, motorcyclists, and bicyclists between your vehicle and the curb because they can legally use the left turn lane for their left turns. Turn into any lane that is safely open, as shown by the arrows.
6. Right turn from a one-way street into a one-way street. Start the turn in the far right lane. If safe, you may end the turn in any lane. Sometimes, signs or pavement markings will let you turn right from another lane, as shown by the graphic 6.
7. Turn at a “T” intersection from a one-way street into a two-way street. Through traffic has the right-of-way. You may turn either right or left from the center lane. Watch for vehicles, motorcyclists, and bicyclists inside your turn.