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DIY: carbon fiber edition
flatlinegraphics
Registered User regular
Registered User regular
Hey everybody. Anyone have any experience or any good guides for CF? Basically, looking to make some custom guitar / audio / project bits, and it seems to be better suited for my current workshop skills (aka, my condo, without any real powertools or fabrication).
Links to DIYs, supplies, etc. super appreciated.
Links to DIYs, supplies, etc. super appreciated.
flatlinegraphics on
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Then there are also veneer pieces you can glue to whatever you want. Which may end up being the easiest route to your desired solution. Here's a place that sells everything you could want for carbon fiber. Jamestown Distributors
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/Carbon-Fiber-Kit-cloth-epoxy-resin-mold-release_W0QQcmdZViewItemQQhashZitem2c5052c635QQitemZ190326162997QQptZLHQ5fDefaultDomainQ5f100
has a starter kit with a 12'' x 50" and epoxy for $40, which should take care of my immediate needs (and allow for some screw ups).
does that look like a decent deal? is that enough epoxy for that much fiber? that seems to be the biggest hang up. i can only locate epoxy by the gallon..
and fiber glass is much cheaper, but makes about 20 horsepower less than CF
also looking into premade sheets, as that may end up being the best route. its all cosmetic stuff, not structural so i'm more interested in the look than anything else.
:winky:
Get some rip stop nylon or something and practice on it first. You'll save money and have awesome pink stuff to play around with.
:winky:
i may end up going with the prefabbed sheets, as it just seems easier for where i am right now. but the fiber glass and nylon may also be an option.
yah, purely cosmetic. not flying airplanes, just making custom panels for some audio projects and car trim bits (when i go for the full car-puter in the summer).
You will absolutely, positively, 100%, fuck up your first attempt. Once you get it right, go to carbon. If you're an experienced craftsman, good with your hands, you'll get a good result on your 3rd attempt if you haven't worked with composites before.
90% of composites work is pattern/mould making. Get used to sanding. Generally, we make our moulds with MDF, and cover it with "Bog." I believe Americans call the stuff "Bondo." This stage is not unlike doing panel repair on a car. Fill it, sand it, spray with a guide coat, sand, is the shape right? No? More bog... Once this is perfect, you sand with finer and finer grit sandpaper until you to about 400... then either polish with wax or apply a release agent. Over the release agent goes the gel coat, then on this you lay up your composite.
The "Shiny" side will be the side that is against the plug. If you want the other side to be shiny, you make a mould from your plug using a cheap composite like fibreglass "chop strand." This stuff is not weave. It's Isotropic... randomly packed glass fibres. It eats up a lot of resin and ends up being stiffer, the penalty is it's ugly and heavy, but that's OK for a mould...
Also, depending on the shape you might have to make a two or three part mould. Some pics to demonstrate:
This is one approach to making a plug for a race car nosecone. Paper patterns printed and glued to MDF which is cut with a jigsaw and screwed/glued together.
A similar but different approach. This method was more skeletal. A backbone was cut and the ribs were spaced further apart. More intricate, but easier to work with. These were laser cut, but a good craftsman can hand cut them just as well, given more time.
This sidepod plug was formed by nailing mdf to pine and the gaps filled with expandy foam... the stuff you fill holes in drywall with. The foam is a prick to bog over because it is not very supportive. It deflects when you sand it, leaving either a tired and frustrated pattern maker or a wavy result.
The skeletal type plug gets filled in with 3mm mdf
Covered with bog and high-fill, it looks like this. It's much, much easier to make curved surfaces than flat ones. Flat surfaces are difficult to form with bog and have a tendancy to oil-can. Avoid them.
The first nose cone technique at a similar stage. Forgive the lack of order.
Vrooom vrooom!
The nosecone plug here is near completion. It has been highfilled and guide coated and I'm bogging up small chip marks.
This nosecone has had one part of the two part mould layed up onto it. The pine is for reinforcement. Compliance is your enemy. The flange down the centreline is formed by making a removable MDF flange that is placed along the nosecone prior to laying up the mould. This temp piece is removed and the other part is layed up against the first. Then you have two flanged half moulds. Note if you can, the way the moulds are keyed into each other. It should be kept in mind that every time I say "layup" or something to that effect, it means release agent is used first! Don't forget this! Note that the mould has been made from chop strand.
Now we have the other half in place
The advantage of the two part mould is seen here. This would be really hard to get apart if it was in one piece. The blue stuff is the gel coat.
Single piece side pod moulds.
Finally, the actual nose cone is made from the mould
Finished product
I guess the point that I'm trying to make with all this is that the actual layup is only a small part of making carbon fibre stuff. Furthermore, as you can see, other composite materials are used in the process of making a CF part.
I haven't gone into much detail about how we vacuum bag parts, and so on. If you're serious about buying a vacuum pump, the perforated sheet, the peel ply, the tacky tape and the pvc sheet, I'll go into it.
edit: By the way, we get our composite stuff from Nupol (misc), FGI (fibreglass) and Gurit (carbon fibre)
tho if my friend ever gets his racecart project off the ground (and onto some wheels), we'll definately look into more of this type of stuff. (a couple of gsxr engines and cart bits are distributed around his garage for the moment...).
i think this current project is spiraling out of control already, so i'm really coming down to finding some prefab bits and cutting to size. will a dremel cut through this stuff? what wheel?
here I am asking noob questions and a pro shows up.
Yeah, a dremel will do it, seen one of the other guys do it. Not sure what kind of wheel he was using. I'd use a standard abrasive. Cut at high speed. Steel wheels will probably become blunt in short order.
Wear a mask, it's carcenogenic, and it conducts electricity, to avoid it getting into any power tools you may have around... for example, a dremel
i'll go through my box of dremel bits and see what works. i think the majority of what i want to do is on flat surfaces anyway.
next question, how does one attach this to that? ie, for making panels, can i just glue it to a metal flange? or do i need something special?
Glue holds it together pretty well. A decent 2-part epoxy is pretty strong stuff; strong enough for what you want. Scuff the surface up with sandpaper first.