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Chop Logic
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Think about it this way: she's 'getting close' with all these other guys, and yet still comes back to you. Obviously you're doing something right.
I think you should talk to her about it--tell that it makes you upset (and I'm pretty sure she knows that already without you telling her, so it's not like it's going to be a mega surprise or anything). At the same time, though, tell her that you don't want to and aren't going to forbid her from acting, and make sure she knows that though you instinctively feel upset, you can keep your emotions in check. That way, she can understand your being bothered, and can help to reassure you, as well. Not talking it over will leave this elephant in the room.
And it's not unusual and not even a bad thing that you feel this way--it's natural. It's just bad if you can't control yourself after being bothered. Understanding that she is just acting will help.
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This can't be emphasized enough.
You have to realize that it's not your girl who's up there kissing some dude. The character she is playing is kissing some dude, and her actions as an actress playing that character are just tools being implemented to tell a story.
You have to understand that her kissing the guy on stage is no more real than her actually being a princess, or a debutante at a ball, or a fairy in the woods, or any other character she is playing.
I understand where you're coming from, but being jealous of your girlfriend kissing another actor on stage is akin to being genuinely afraid that someone is going to be killed in a swordfight in a climax.
When treating phobias, one of the most successful strategies is increasingly close exposure to whatever triggers the reactions. I'd recommend something similar with your problem. Start by thinking about the idea of it happening during a play, rate the strength of your reaction to the idea on a scale of 1 to 10, and then try to bring your emotions under control. Rationalization is a good thing here, telling yourself things like "It's all staged", "It doesn't mean anything", "I know she loves me" are all useful. Once you've got your gut feeling under a manageable threshold (say, 3 or 4), you're ready for the next step. Move on to visualizing it in increasing detail. Same thing again, try to bring your emotions under control. Keep doing this as the date of a live performance approaches. Once you think you're ready, go see the play. Same deal again, think about your level of emotion, and actively try to bring it down into a manageable range using rationalization.
In case you're curious, this is essentially what's called Cognitive Behavioral Therapy, and research has shown it can work really well for tackling involuntary emotional reactions such as phobias, and I hope it can work for you too. The idea behind it is pretty simple. By creating repeated and escalating exposure to whatever stimulus triggers the reaction, you eventually desensitize yourself to that stimulus. The "cognitive" portion of the therapy is the rationalizations I mentioned above, and it's a vital component. Repeated exposure by itself has some effect, and rationalization by itself has some effect, but the two combined are more effective by far. It'll take some time for this to work, you'll have to spend some time and effort on it, and it's not a "cure". The aim of the therapy is not to remove the emotional reaction entirely, but rather to bring it down to a more manageable level. In your case, I'd say that watching your girl kiss another guy in a play will always trigger at least a twinge in your gut, but you should be able to scale it back to the point where it's not a major problem for you or her.
Yeah, I used to do a lot of plays.
I really wanted to fuck the girl that played my sister in one.
The year before, my girlfriend had a kiss on stage as Philia in Forum.
Yeah, a kiss on stage doesn't mean anything. Either you're a good actor and you're just acting like your character would act, or you're a bad actor and you're trying to remember what your next line is. It may be helpful to remember that the important part of intimacy is the feeling, and not the physical act (especially for the kinds of things you can legally do on stage). What she does on stage is quite far removed from what she does with you.
It's good that you realize your gut reaction isn't rational, and that you're telling her that. Make sure to emphasize that you don't actually want her to stop acting and taking these roles- because even if a part of you would feel better if she did, it's clear you want her to be happy more.
The way I've always looked at it- and I guess not everyone can do this- is that I trust that my girlfriend loves me, so I don't have to worry about other guys beyond chasing off jerks. She actually tries to get me to be more jealous, because she thinks it's romantic, but I just don't ever really feel threatened. It's weird to see her kissing another guy, but in the end it's just something you'll have to shake off, because it means nothing romantically.
Regarding what you said in the first post about "liking doing it;" do you mean acting in general? Or looking like she enjoys the kiss because she's supposed to be in character? Or are you worried that she actually enjoys kissing other guys?
We tried talking about it a few times, but the last time we got into a really really big fight. IT was on the phone (best place for fights!) and I'm not sure how it came up, but it did, and what I said was that, yes, it does bother me, but I dont want that to have any affect on you acting, I don't know how to not let it bother me but I'm just being irrational so really, just dont worry about it. And she started yelling at me, telling me she shouldnt have to be dealing with this, she had to deal with it all through the fall play (sidenote: I was kind of sulky during the fall play, but it wasn't just about that. What added to it was the fact that everyone said I shoulld have been cupid except the student director, who is a student in my grade that I used to be freinds with, and doesnt like me anymore. She gave the rold of cupid to one of her freinds. Also, I was there at practice every day and had to be there and watch when all this was going on, every day, for two or three months.)
So, she was just saying that she 'really shouldnt have to deal with this, other boyfreinds would be supportive, she wants a boyfreind who can be supportive.' 'Why odes the one thing that makes me happy have to make you miserable.' ' If you can't get over this then we have a big problem.' Just generally yelling and I was just saying that yeah, it bothers me a lot, but I don't do anything intentionally to try and show it or make you not want to act, and I never said anything about her not acting or anything. I just genuinley don't know hot to not let it bother me so I don't know what to do, but I don't want to have it to have any affect on what you decide to do.
This was, in her words, 'bullshit', because I was 'acting like I had some sort of disease. It's not something I can't control', and I should just, 'not worry about it'.
So, shes still kind of mad at me about it, and I'll admit, whenever we talk about it, it does make me a little upset. Stupid example: We were watching Clerks 2 last night, and it got up to the scene in the beginning where Dante is making out with his fiance and then flashes randal.
Me: You know, thats Kevin Smiths wife. (I'm pretty sure it is, right?)
Her: Really? How do you think he feels about her doing a scene like that?
Keep in mind we hadnt talked about anything about acting the whole day, so this was totally out of nowhere.
Me: Um.. I'm not sure. (I really just didnt want to talk about it or think about it)
Her: Well, I'm sure he doesn't mind because he cast her in the movie, right?
And I just said I guess, or something to end the conversation there because I really just didnt want to talk about it.
So the general concensus is that I just have to not worry about it. That makes sense. I just, dont know how to not let it bother me. I mean I don't need to worry about it now because shes not trying out for the spring play, but I just can't help but feel like when she trys out for other plays, outside schools, if she gets a role like that I'm going to over react or something or its going to bother me so much more than it really should.
Thanks for all the advice. Keep it coming, if anyone has anything else to say.
If you think you can handle it, just...try not to say anything that she might construe as relating to the disagreement. I can understand why her mind jumped to the disagreement when you made the comment about Kevin Smith's wife, even if you didn't truly mean it that way (though a part of me believes you did, even if only subconsciously).
However, I advise not saying this to her.
Offhand I'd say this problem is sort of like crabs in the way it viciously makes its rounds in nearly any acting circle.
Really, you seem to be doing alright. Its tough, even for seasoned professionals. Oh god, the number of women that have fallen for leads or acting partners and left their doting, emotionally capable boyfriends behind.
I'm not sure on an exact percentage or anything, but I'm pretty sure its about the same amount as the number of slightly effeminate but highly un-gay men who take up drama because they can't handle real relationships and have managed to find a highly effective way of making time with hot girls with little or nothing to pay up for, emotionally or financially, at the end of the night.
Do they make out with the girl onstage and like it? Hell yes, oh hell yes they do. Do they secretly get off on the fact that the jealous boyfriend has to sit and watch every goddamn show, smiling like an idiot as it all goes down? You bet! There are very few deeply satisfying smirks to be had, but there's this one, just after the show. Right when the two leads are chatting, and the significant other comes up and congradulates his girlfriend on the fine performance, perhaps overcongradulating with the intent of simultaneusly proving he's 'not jealous' while marking his territory like a husky on a diuretic, there's this magic moment. The girl says thanks, and then gestures to her makeout, erm, acting partner who she 'just absolutely could not have done this project without', and the boyfriend shakes the hand of this man, and says 'Good Show'.
That me lads, that right there is the fuel of legends and rockstars. To plot, and twist and undermine, to behave oh so badly in full of view of half a thousand people, and to be thanked by a man forced down on his emotional knees for doing it. That lightly twisted smile as you say "Thanks man, I appreciate that.", that's the smile that washes away ones own mortality, and for one shining moment, makes you a god.
So should you be concerned? You bet! If your girlfriend is really, genuinely serious about being an actress, you can kiss any hope of having a normal relationship goodbye.
That scene with Kevin Smith's wife? They fought for days and he swore that he would never, ever again cast her in that kind of role in any of his movies again.
I guess what I'm trying to say here is that you're pretty much fucked. And if you're not fucked now, you will most certainly become fucked in the future.
The upside is that you are normal, and she is not. Serious actors are not like normal people, they pretend to be normal people. Just like she is pretending that by coating your geniune yet highly inconvienient emotions with the taint of 'unprofessionalism', that it some how makes them less meaningful, or inappropriate.
She is the performer here, not you. And she doesn't have the right, by making you pretend something doesn't or shouldn't bother you when it very well does and should, to turn you into one.
This whole acceptance thing is a two way street, if she wants you to accept, support, and respect her drive and desire to perform, then she must show the same respect and support for your own need and desire to be geniune - what you seem to want for your own life.
So sure, dial it back a bit if you want, but don't let her forget that each and every time she does it, it bothers you. This isn't to make her feel bad, or be unsupportive, but to let her know the way it is. Actors above all else need grounding in order to truly be successful. Otherwise they get so caught up in the inner workings of other people that they forget how real thier own feelings are, and the feelings of those around them. Your honesty will keep her honest, so that when she does feel attracted to the leading man, so that when she does get all wet and slippery when buddy craptastic moves her in a certain way, she will also dial that back to a minimum, and keep things professional.
Maybe she's really serious about acting, maybe its just a phase. Either way, good luck, 'cause you're going to need a buttload.
So I was out today with me freind and I was thinking about this a little, and I decided after reading your guys advice that I would try and talk to her about it.
'Oh my god, what the hell was I thinking' soon followed.
This was the first part of the conversation, I wish I could sum it up but I can't. I refrenced ytou guys as 'my freind' though.
me: i was talking with a freind
me: about us
me: and the problem im having
me: with the acting and stuff
me: and
me: he said
me: that it is completley normal
me: and
me: also
me: about kevin smiths wife
me: "That scene with Kevin Smith's wife? They fought for days and he swore that he would never, ever again cast HER in that kind of role in any of his movies again. "
me: and then he linked me to this thing that said it
me: but i lost it.
HER: um okay
me: im just saying that
HER: so i'll just deal with you being miserable thanks :-)
HER: i'm glad you feel better
me: let me type somethign out.
me: look.
me: its been bothering me since we talked about it.
me: and i dont want to get in a fight.
me: but
me: we both need to be understanding and acceptive here.
me: not just me.
me: it goes both ways, not just me to you.
me: hello?
HER: what
me: i can being acceptive and supportive about your acting, but you also need to be acceptive and supportive of me.
HER: of your what?
HER: what am i not supportive about?
me: that its somethign that bothers me.
HER: the fact that something i like makes you miserable oh i'm sorry
me: I can be acceptive of you, but everytime i say something about it bothering me a little or try and talk honestly about how I feel about something, we end up in a fight
me: and thats not fair to me, just like if I were to tell you that I didnt want you acting would be wrong, or me telling you not to do something would be wrong.
me: I feel like whenever I try and talk about it with you, that we end up in a fight with you very mad at me and nothing accomplished.
me: I don't want to get in a fight right now.
me: I just want to talk to you.
HER: i dont even know what to write
HER: cause i'm not going to stop liking acting because you say it hurts your feeling
HER: sorry.
me: maria that is not what I'm saying at all.
HER: yes it is
me: I'm not asking you to stop acting.
me: at all.
HER: acting= miserable solution= no acting?
HER: correct?
me: no.
me: talking often leads to solutions to problems.
me: but whenever I try and talk about it I feel like all you say is, well I'm not going to stop acting.
me: thats fine thats not what I'm asking you to do.
me: at all.
me: I want you to do what makes you happy.
me: but its not fair for me if whenever I try and say anyhting about it, we're automaticly in a big fight
HER: cause what do you want me to do about it?
me: I don't know what you want me to do about it. I just don't feel like its fair for you to tell me I'm being ridiculous and wrong and a bad person when I'm really not, and just dismiss everything I say and get mad at me whenever we try and talk about it.
me: because I'm not some wierd freak other people have this problem, its not just me.
me: I think its an understandable problem to have
HER: well i dont
HER: i absolutely dont understand it at all
HER: so i cant help you get over it
me: not even a little? you really don't understand even a little? I'm being understanding to your end of the situation, all I'm asking is that you be a little understanding to mine.
HER: i dont know how
me: just like I dont know how.
me: look at that.
HER: cause the only solution to your problem is giving up something i like doing and i wont do that
HER: and dont apreciate the fact you talked to ian about this i know you did
me: I swear to god
me: that I did not.
me: i need you to take my word for it.
me: because I would never do that.
me: it was bothering me while I was with him, but I swear to you that I did not bring it up to him.
HER: okay
me: nit even hint at it.
me: I really didnt.
HER: okay
me: but look. I just feel like just like it wouldnt be fair for me to ask you to give up how you feel about acting, its also not fair for you to ask me to pretend like something doesnt bother me.
me: because it does.
me: and its not fair for you to ask me to pretend that it doesnt.
HER: so then what are we supposed to do about it
HER: we cant deal with it as is
HER: i'm not going to stop liking acting and your never going to be happy with it
me: I just cant pretend like it doesnt bother me when it does. and I can see it being a problem in the future, because if you did a play outside of school, you'd be spending a lot of time with your male lead and it wouldnt be like an in school rehersal or anything.
HER: well then
HER: not my fault
HER: you take me as i am and for what i do
me: then why can't you take me as I am?
HER: why should i accept someone who miserable at the exspense of me being happy
HER: evan you think i'm becoming a professional actress fat chance like that could ever happen all i was ever asking was you could accept the fact that i like to do acting it makes me happy and you cant
me: maria if a profesional director/ actor and hiw wife of many years got in a huge fight over it, and its a common problem with actors and actresses, I don't see why it upsetting me a little is so ridiculous
me: like, you're acting like I'm asking you to stop acting.
me: I'm not.
HER: cause its not upsetting you a little
HER: well i dont want to deal with someone who's going to be miserable with me doing some dumb plays
HER: and i'm so tired i wish we didnt start this conversation now
me: its okay. do you want to go to bed?
HER: yes
me: ...I dont want you going to bed mad at me.
me: I'm not mad at you.
me: I can tell that you are mad.
HER: i know your not mad at me i
HER: not in any play right now
me: maria I just dont feel like it's fair for you to ask me to act like I'm 100% fine with something that in reality bothers me.
me: just like I'm not asking you to pretend you don't like something that in reality, you do.
HER: not 100 percent not even 75 all i'm asking is for you to not be mopey and miserable and maybe act like i'm not slaughtering kittens
HER: cause that what you do
HER: and then THEN
HER: i feel bad for doing something that i like doing
HER: well guess what not happening
HER: idc what the fuck your friend has to say
HER: i'm not feeling bad for something i like to do i'm sorry it makes you uncomfortable but if your going to make me miserable along with you
me: maria I'm not asking you to feel bad.
HER: NO your making me feel bad
me: I'm just trying to talk to you about something that geniuenly botHERs me.
me: why is that so outlandish
HER: well then i cant deal with someone who's bothered by it
HER: because its a part of me
HER: i like it, it makes me happy even if i never do any plays ever again its still something i like and it makes me terribly uncomfortable that someone who i love is miserable by the fact i can be happy about something else
HER: so your little problem with it
HER: it wont work
me: what do you mean
HER: it wont work with our situation
HER: you wouldnt date a butcher now would you
me: what?
HER: why do you want to date me
me: I dont understand your analogy
her: you wouldnt date someone who kills animals
HER: so why would you date someone who does something that makes you just as miserable
me: ...I dont really feel like acting and killing things are comparable.
me: maria I'm only human.
HER: yeah and so am i
HER: god its not fair
me: I'm just asking you to be understand of my side of the situation
HER: i do
HER: but there is nothing i can do about it
me: like I'm supposed to be understanding of yours.
HER: THERE is nothing i can do about it
HER: and i dont how this will work out if we make eachother miserable
HER: by the things we do
me: ..what are you saying
HER: seriously idk anymore i'm really torn right now, cause i'm tyring to understand your view but the only thing i can understand is me liking acting makes you miserable and you miserable makes me miserable so all thats left are two people who are miserable unless one person gives in and that would have to be me
HER: and why does have to be me
HER: thats what i dont understand
HER: everybody gets something that their good at but my talent makes the person i love uncomfortable and unhappy
HER: yes LUCK FUCK I AM
HER: and i really didnt feel like crying tonight
HER: but guess i dont have to wash my makeup off tonight
me: ...why should I be expected to pretend like I'm happy about something I'm not? maria I support you I tell you how good you are and if you were in any plays I wasn't in I would come watch you. but I just dont feel like I can pretend to be super happy about something I'm not.
me: don't cry, why are you crying
me: how come everytime we talk about this it always has to be like this, why can't it ever just be a normal conversation.
HER: well if you cant be happy with me
HER: then
HER: how can this be a normal conversation
HER: your not happy with me
me: what are you talking about, yes I am.
HER: or with the things i do
HER: its a pretty serious issue
HER: and i wont be with someone who makes me miserable
HER: i have enough people in my life who do that
me: I'm sorry that you kissing and being close with otHER people bothers me. I just want to be able to talk about it with you without it being a fight.
HER: EVAN
HER: GET THE FUCK REAL
HER: i doubt i will get that many parts where i kiss a guy
HER: COME ONE
HER: ON*
HER: SERIOUSLY AND IF THERE WAS IT would probably be a peck
HER: its not like stupid clerks
HER: where tHERe making out for an hour
HER: i've never seen a play like that where thats occured
me: thats besides the point I just dont understand why we cant just talk about it normall and not have it be a fight
HER: and me being with other people
HER: well stop being jealous get over it i can hang out with other people who have common interest as me
me: finish your sentance first
me: no i meant
me: being with people as in
HER: i dont ask to be a part of your little art groups
me: all close and touchy
me: ...little art groups?
HER: oh get over it
HER: if you cant handle something on stage thats probably last for most a minute
HER: then thats not understandable
HER: yeah kevin smith thing understandable me doing pornos understandable
HER: me trying to get parts in plays where the most i would have to do was peck a guy
HER: NOT understandable
HER: and once again
HER: i doubt i'll get any parts like that i'll be lucky if i get tree number 2 all 4 yrs of college
me: you don't know that. maria you won an award for acting.
me: and said that you wanted to major in it.
HER: shut up evan
HER: i dont know how this is going to work out if your going to be miserable with things i like to do
HER: and if i do get parts like that i want to be with someone who when i see them doesnt act like i'm doing a porno and acts like my bf its not like i would be bragging about a kissing scene with a boy
HER: plus once again the most plays ever had is a kiss idk but i never seen a play with a sex scene
HER: unless it was alluded by the darkening of a light
me: can we not do this over AIM? maria please I wouldnt have brought it up if I knew it was going to escalate like this I just wanted to talk about it.
me: I love you.
HER: no its to late right now
HER: i want to go to bed
me: I dont want us going to bed like this.
me: maria
HER: well you know what your friend is a fucking moron
HER: did you mention the part i would only be doing plays?
HER: and also the fact you'd be jealous of an enviorment i'd be in that doesnt include you well thats annoying
HER: and i dont like it
me: I never said that
HER: and i'm sorry this cant just be a little sweet conversation
HER: but its a very big deal to me
me: I just want to be able to talk about it and not have it be a fight
HER: how can this not turn into fight evan do you have any idea how serious this is
HER: how can a couple last with a problem like this
me: otHER couples do it.
me: like you said
HER: you dont like what i like to do!!
me: other couples do it
HER: god i probably wont even end up majoring in it i'll just be like one of those people who never acomplish anything they like to do because of people who hold them back and tell them not to do it and then they believe it and they never go after anything they want
me: are you talking about me/?
HER: i'm talking about everyone i've ever surrounded myself around
HER: and i'm sick of it
me: including me...
HER: if no one can be happy for me then w.e idc anymore i just want someone to fucking accept me as is and if i cant get it from you my family than i dont want it anymore goodnight
HER signed off at 12:23:13 AM.
She signed off. I run to go get a phone and call her cell. We talk for a little, shes crying, we're talking and then she says she'll go back on aim.
once she gets back on aim she says that, she knows it bothers me, but theres nothing she can do about it, and she doesnt want to be with someone who's going to be miserable about something she loves doing.
HER(12:44:06 AM): if your going to be miserable your whole life with me i want to break up right now
her(12:44:28 AM): if your going to never be happy with me cause i did some plays
me!(12:44:45 AM): what are you saying
her(12:45:04 AM): if you are going to be miserable over some plays i did when i was in college or just some plays i did
her(12:45:08 AM): then i want to break up
her(12:45:39 AM): if you are going to put me down and not be happy for me and proud of me then i cant continue this
She says, 'I love acting. Me acting makes you miserable. You ebing miserable makes me miserable, so we're just two people that make each other miserable. Why would you want to be with somewhen when you're both just miserable with each other?' My response was, because I love you. so we talk some more and eventually we both calm down and then finally we're talking like adults I think. I say:
me(1:06:58 AM): alright. well thats all I can give you. all I can give you is my promise that I will truthfully try my best. thats all. I cant make any promises about being upset for X number of days or being happy about this but sad about that, but I can promise you that I will try my best.
me (1:07:12 AM): is that enough
her (1:08:07 AM): fine but all i'm asking is you be happy with me when i'm off the stage like i wasnt even doing a play and i know when the situation comes up it'll be easier to deal with
So, I dont know. When we ended we definatly were not in a fight and things were better than they were before, but I'm still so worried that this is going to come up again in the form of something bad. I'm going to try and bring it up tomarrow one last time and try not to get into a fight. I'm just scared that I'm really not that cool about this. Like when she told me she was trying out for the spring play, of course I didnt say anyhting, but I actually was upset and I don't know why.
What the fuck should I be doing, I'll most a more coherent post tomarrow night, I'm fucking tired. Sorry if this is all out of order or too long or makes no sense. It's one in the morning ill look at it tomarrow I'm just a little upset and tired and shit.
Fuck, man.
This talk didn't start as a fight, but you kept pushing and pushing and it turned in to a fight. YOU have these issues to deal with. Just drop the topic already, it's only making things worst.
Battle.net: Fireflash#1425
Steam Friend code: 45386507
I don't even know what to tell you. You made it very clear that you weren't annoyed by her acting, but by her kissing someone while she acts.
You two have to talk about this, to communicate, to really think and listen to what you both are saying, because right now, you both are not on the same station here.
But the problem is that she doesn't want to talk or to listen. She justs wants to squash the subject, and she squashed it by pulling the "break-up" card. You have the problem that you don't want to get over your hang-up, you want her to understand that you have a hang-up, and she should understand that it makes you miserable.
You're pulling the passive-agressive act.
However, the whole "I'm pulling the break-up card" that's very, very harsh. It even starts giving off wrong vibes from the start, know what I mean? However, what I'm saying is that you both did wrong in this fight, and chances are you both said things that you regret or didn't really mean.
But you HAVE to get over your problem of her kissing guys on-stage. It's pretend, it's acting, it's NOTHING. They already told you that, and the fact that you followed that guy Sarcastro's advice was the wrong way to go, because it wasn't good advice
THAT IS BAD ADVICE!
THAT IS GOOD ADVICE!
Why did you go all overprotective boyfriend on her, and why did she have to go all dramaqueen on you, putting her earplugs on? Think about it.
Is she kissing guys off-stage? Is she having relationships with other guys and you know of this?
No? Then you're pretty damn good.
I think you need to manage how you feel better - not by suppressing it, but just by avoiding situations where you have to watch your gf act in scenes that make you uncomfortable, and not reading scripts you think will bother you, etc. Get some space in there, and make sure your gf knows you're doing it to smooth things over. Stay supportive for all the other scenes, and of course for plays that don't involve romance plots. She already knows you don't like it, so continually reminding her is unnecessary... and kinda patronizing. You really think she's going to forget if you don't pout just a little now and then? That's not the case.
on another note, Sarcastro may be right about the 'slimy kissin' partner thinking he's stuck one to the bf' thing, but who cares? The dude is going home either alone or with Extra #4, you know, the one with the braces and bowlegs, so let him have his imaginary victory. People who operate on those lines aren't worth acknowledging.
Somehow you two need to get on the same page, if you want to work this out. I'd advise not doing your serious talking over IM if at all possible, or even the phone - it just isn't as good as face-to-face.
As to how you can get on the same page? You've tried asking for her acknowledgment, and she, in the text conversation at least, has missed that completely, spinning into her own drama cycle of "our relationship is doomed and we make each other miserable and I'm not going to stop acting oh god nobody supports me".
So, try sitting down together - NOT on the phone or over IM. Write down what you each would like from each other in this matter, and how the other can reasonably provide that (make sure you provide a solution for everything you write down). Be clear and honest about what you are asking. Make it clear that everything is to be written down - and anything not written down is not what you are asking for. (To clarify: it should be understood that if you've got five things on your list, and "stop acting" is NOT one of them, then she should not assume that you want her to stop acting.) Go over your lists together, and make sure that everything is discussed, covered, and understood to everyones satisfaction - then move forward from there.
You and she should understand that there is no "instant" fix for this matter - and I think you do, at least. You'll require constant honest and open communication, without reading into what the other is saying. If you think you're straying into that territory, bring the attention back to the matter at hand and indicate that if there were other issues or requests in this matter, you'd have written them down.
Good luck.
that's important. my girlfriend is really into acting, thankfully she hasn't had any roles (as long as I've been around) where I've had to see her kiss someone else. admittedly, I might wince a little tiny bit. I would not wince because I think she would secretly be enjoying it, I would wince because of the simple fact that her lips are against some other dude's. she is mine, and I am hers, we already have that between us--and then some other guy wants to kiss her? egh. I can level with you, chop logic. however, it looks like you're taking this too far, or even worrying about something irrational--like her secretly wishing she could kiss other guys. that's not how she's thinking, you know. deep down, you must know that she loves you and not some other guy. she is forced to give him a quick, mechanical, detached stage kiss because it's in the script. yes, it's the mechanics that make all us guys flinch a little. but, you have to buckle down and remember what The Cat said. that guy, who your girlfriend has to kiss? he's nothing. if he has a girlfriend, chances are she'll be just as uncomfortable as you (moreso, even, given the unfair stereotype as men being all about the women). if he's single, well then, he's single! he's not good enough for your girlfriend. you get to go home with her for the night, he's out on his own. if you absolutely must, level it off like that. you're above him, because your girlfriend loves you.
please don't let a dumb old thing like this be a problem in your relationship. it sucks, and I can agree with you, but you just have to rationalize it in your head.
Pass her my way chop logic.
CUZ THERE'S SOMETHING IN THE MIDDLE AND IT'S GIVING ME A RASH
It's been a tough situation, but there are few things I think I could lend.
1. People are right, NEVER start this conversation over the phone or AIM, it will never go well.... NEVER. Don't even kid yourself that you can just say something quick in passing without it turning into a big fight. It's a touchy subject, it will always spin out of control. Face to Face is the best way to talk about this, and at a time when each of you are comfortable talking about it. Right now, I think she has sort of spent herself talking about it and well.... she's just not going to open up any more at this point. You need to let it cool down.
2. I know exactly where you are coming from with the rational logic vs. emotional response to the problem. I could rationalize things away every time in my head, but for some reason that just didn't seem to carry over to that emotional gut wrenching lurch I felt in my stomach. I don't get it either, and it's tough to deal with but there are ways. I like to write in a journal when something first trips my alarm. I write down every fear and bad feeling I have, then I address them one by one with the rational reasons why it isn't true. I throw in there some good memories and intimate moments he's shared with me, and it helps me to calm down. Leave it for a bit, go back to it later... is there anything unsolved that is more than just an emotion that flared up but has maybe subsided? What I'm getting at here, is this process gives you a way to deal with your feelings without having to drag her into it every time. That can wear on her, and she has let you know that it is. So if you can deal with some of these emotions on your own and reassure yourself, you both won't be so overwhelmed when you do bring something up.
3. I agree with the exposure theory. Think about the things that freak you out, get all worked up, then practice at bringing yourself back down. Give her every opportunity to do the acting thing and even the stage kiss thing. Trust me, even if it kills you at first, you will learn to not let it spark you so much if you face it. This is both because you will learn how to deal with the emotions and they will become less powerful, but also because you will get that reassurance you need when she does her thing and comes back to you every time. Then when you've let her do her thing without being all mopey/whiny/fearful, I'm sure she'll be so pleased as pie that she'll be grateful to have a guy like you. It's that whole "If you love them, let them go". You give her the space and freedom she needs and she will be all the more likely to stick around because she won't feel trapped or held back. Avoiding these situations and pretending like they don't exist when they do come up is a bad idea. Because when they do come up, you won't be able to ignore the situation or the feelings it will bring. Avoiding her or the situation will only put distance between you two. Does she give you a lot of freedom and trust to do your thing? Think of how great it probably makes you feel. Then you can begin to want to do that for her.
She doesn't sound like she's being very open right now, but that is probably because she feels trapped at this point. Let it be for a while, show as much support and trust and you can muster. Some pressure needs to be taken off before you can have any chance of a conversation on this subject going anywhere.
It will get better with time man. Just remember that. I'd rather be as emotional as I am then be a rock, but you have to learn to keep them in check as well. Getting emotional isn't bad, not being able to control yourself when you get emotional is.
I don't know the extent of your relationship well enough to comment, or at least say something that others haven't already said, but something about the conversation you posted on page 1 struck me as odd.
You know why she reacted that way, even though you were trying to be all "logical" and "understanding" and all?
Read what you're saying in that conversation.
"It is not fair to me..."
"It is not fair to me..."
I can count at least five places where you say that.
You need to get one thing straight: there is nothing here that is not fair to you. She knows you're jealous, and she probably already feels pretty bad about it even though your jealousy is completely irrational and childish. She might even have considered quitting for all you know. But she thinks she doesn't have your support, even though you say you support her.
Now, on top of all that, you're now complaining about things being not fair to you. Like, really, what better way to come across as self-centered?
In my humble opinion here is what you should do: never mention this to her again, ever. Every time she kisses a guy on a play, remind yourself that it is you that she loves, and endure through the thing. And whatever you do, for christ's sake, don't let your petty little thing ruin the mood when you're with her off stage.
Yeah she does 'give' me a lot of freedom I guess and I really should extend the same to her. I mean if I used to go to 'parties' with some freinds she would never act all jelous or anything. And yeah I have been making this a way bigger deal than it needs to be.
Today we hung out and it was a lot of fun, moreso than usual. We got lunch then came back to my house and made dinner (Teriyaki Tempeh with sauted broccoli and peppers with yellow rice woo) and then just hungout downstairs. She even said herself, today was a lot of fun, I haven't had this much fun in such a long time.
We've been going out for around 8 or 9 months now, so we're a lot closer than when the first play came around when we were only going out 3 or 4 months. So I guess I'm not really too worried about this anymore. You all, with the exception of 3, really really helped a lot, I never talked with any of my real life freinds about this, so thanks a lot. I'll leave this open just in case but I don't really think I'll be having too much new to post in here. Today with her was perfect.
Unfortunately, I cannot agree with Cass and others, who've said that acting becomes so dry and clinical that all the possibility of actual attraction or "sparks" is ground out of it. Acting, even at the amateur level, is just like a job; anytime you work in close quarters with people your own age, who share similar interests, the occasional attraction is not only likely, it is inevitable. Scary? Perhaps. But you wouldn't begrudge her a job, say, selling cameras at Radio Shack, or videos at Blockbuster, right? There are obvious differences, yes, but the underlying principles are the same.
The best advice I can give is this: worry about something long enough, particularly something like this, and it will find a way of coming true. I understand that you can't necessarily control your emotions, but you absolutely can control how those emotions influence your treatment of your girlfriend. Assigning universal traits to anything is dangerous...particularly with women. But my only absolutely consistent observation is that most women are attracted to confidence, and--more importantly, as its negative corollary--repulsed by a lack thereof. In all likelihood, nothing will push her away so fast as a state of constant misery over her acting...or worse, letting that misery manifest itself in some of the passive-aggressive moping that it sounds as though you've already been doing.
At any rate, it sounds like things are going well. I hope that you never again experience the friction you've described, but if you do, just remember, she must see something in you that she prefers to everyone else. Otherwise, she wouldn't be with you.
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If I were in your place, I would tell her to keep the drama on the stage because she is acting fucking rediculous. You have somthing that you seriously want to talk about and she needs to recognize that you support her 100% but also that it is weird for you to see her on stage with other guys. What you really need to stress to her is that you realize that it really isn't a big deal that she is participating in those scenes, that you can deal with it, and that you are working to get over it.
I am in a play that is coming up where I will have to kiss a girl who happens to be one of my girlfriend's close friends. Will it be weird? Yeah. Will it stop me from doing the play? No. Will it cause any problems with my girlfriend? I sincerely doubt it. We are both very level headed people and even if it bothers my girlfriend I know that she will work to get over it and I will try to be understanding and help her through that process.
HER: i absolutely dont understand it at all
HER: so i cant help you get over it
I thought that was particularly revealing. She's refusing to understand your point of view, and seriously misinterpreting your concerns. What you need to make clear to her is that you're not asking for her to quit acting, or even to stop taking roles that involve kissing other guys, but just to have a clear understanding between the two of you that you are concerned and that she will be respectful of those concerns. Basically, you're looking for some support from her, and she's not understanding that.
run on sentances FTW.
She looked to you for support and she obviously thought you would step up in the end, thats why she got so pissed that you flat out told her you wouldn't. At the end of the day its acting, if you cannot get over something as small as this for someone you care about, forget about any more long lasting relationships. Just take a step back and think about what you are actually getting so worked up over.
Pissed that this ended up long winded also
WeeSneak
She needs to open her eyes to your needs and concerns. It seems that (after reading the AIM conversation) that she's turning this all into a bout of "wah wah poor me what I do makes you miserable and that makes me miserable you don't support me and my family doesn't either oh no", and in the process misinterprets your concerns and fails to produce anything but pity for herself. She needs to open her eyes to the entire situation and not just to focus on herself. It's not "kissing = my acting = making him miserable", there's a gigantic grey area inbetween that you both need to define for eachother and work through.
Luckily I never had to deal with something like this when I acted in high school. I usually dated within the theatre department, so it was never an issue. We were all on the same page and would all do the same thing if our acting "got in the way" of a relationship. We'd A) explain that a stage peck doesn't change anything, and if that didn't work,
If all of this goes to hell over a stage peck, then all you can do is move on. You have years of dating ahead of you.
The biggest reason I see this relationship failing is that she is so quick to mention breaking up. Breaking up over something as petty as this? Please. Has she ever threatened breaking up with you before?
It's true that you're being far too jealous about this... and it's something you need to work through by yourself. My girlfriend is several states away and she's hanging around with dudes who are usually drunk or hitting on her or both. Admittedly it makes me worried and concerned for her safety, but I'm not going to get jealous because I trust my girlfriend a lot.
Though in your IM conversation all I saw was that you kept repeating yourself and it was even starting to annoy ME, and I'm not even part of this. She kept asking what you expected her to do aside from understanding how you feel. Well what exactly IS she supposed to do? If she's told you that the kisses mean nothing then that's that. Is she supposed to tell you how much she hates doing it? Is she supposed to avoid doing plays that involve any sort of romance?
My advice is that you shouldn't even be having this conversation with your girlfriend. You could have told her one time that it bothers you that she's "intimate" with other guys on stage, but that you trust her. You're showing a very unattractive quality for a guy to have, which is jealousy and self-confidence issues.
If you were confident with yourself and your relationship then this kind of thing wouldn't even bother you.
But yeah, I don't see this relationship lasting because you guys can't even communicate about something so simple without her threatening to end the relationship. With that being said, she also sounds pretty selfish and dominating in your relationship.
It appears that exploring a happy, healthy and mature relationship at this precise moment in time, would no doubt end the relationship altogether. Happy, healthy and mature relationships generally require happy, healthy and mature people to have them. Any pressure to force this state at the moment could very well unravel the whole thing.
One could counsel strictly towards keeping the girl, in which case the best course seems to lie in the direction of forgeting the subject entirely and lying like a dog everytime it comes up from the other side, which would be seldom to never, I would think. Your relationship will last for as long as you can be truly convincing, which is generally a shorter period of time than most people think.
Alternatively, in recognizing that all serious long-term relationships include at least some small measure of dysfunction, one could move towards encouraging absolute and unconditional acceptance, taking small blows in love and understanding, and then transforming that pent up negative energy into something positive. This approach could last until one became utterly fatigued, or if used as a sort of bandage, tie things together until a suitable agreement or philosphy was reached.
From your posted conversation, it appears you're the one who must bend, fair or unfair isn't really the question anymore. So if she means that much to you, bend. Bend like the fucking willow. Life is never fair, nothing ever truly equal. In the grand scheme, things tend to balance out, but on the small scale they always tip to one side or the other. Perhaps by giving up something meaningful to you, you will reap a reward in another part of your life. Or not.
Either way, if its a price you're willing to pay, then pay it. Don't moan about paying it while you pay it, and don't complain about exactly how much it is. If it is worth the price, then make that decision, and move forward. Think about what you have gained by paying it, and when you start regretting your decision, conciously throw those thoughts away and think only about what you have gained. It will get easier every time you do this until eventually you will think only of what is gained, and nothing about the cost at all. Your loss will become a victory, and one of your weaknesses a strength. Be sure, and move forward. This is the way to a life without regret.
Is it easy to overcome your protective, possessive instincts in this situation? No. Is it possible? Hell yes it is, and it's the best thing for you to do. Just leave your baggage behind and move on.
I emphatically disagree with anyone who says that your girlfriend is the one with the problem here. It's up to you.
She's right, it is his problem, and he should deal with it. But he should expect some help from his girlfriend of all people so he can talk it out without feeling guilty (too much).