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BBQ - BBQ Sauces, Meat Rubs, and Innuendo

strategerystrategery Registered User regular
edited January 2010 in Help / Advice Forum
So I've decided I want to learn the art of rubbing my meat(ha ha!), and applying judicious amounts of delicious sauce.

I'd like to start by trying my hand at Pulled Pork, but the problem is I know fuck all about making my own BBQ. And I don't want to half ass this. I know I need a chunk of pork butt, and then I need to use a rub on the butt before adding my own special sauce.

My question to you is regarding the rubs and the sauce. What's some good combos, recipes, etc etc.

Any thoughts on cooking time, temperatures, etc, etc is also welcomed. As I really don't know much about this at all.

I do not have a BBQ pit. So it's all going to be done, most likely, using the oven. But I do have a charcoal grill as well.

So fire away. Educate me on rubbing meats and making sauce!

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strategery on

Posts

  • EggyToastEggyToast Jersey CityRegistered User regular
    edited January 2010
    The key to BBQ -- in my opinion -- is vinegar. All the rubs in the world won't matter if you're not cooking your meat with some nice tangy vinegar.

    A pulled pork BBQ is probably the easiest thing to start on. Get a pork butt, dice an onion, put the onion in a crock pot and the pork butt on top. Put a cup of vinegar and a 1/2 tbsp of liquid smoke in there, let it simmer on low for about 8 hours. Oh, you probably want to cut off the "fat cap" too (which is a large chunk of skin/fat typically included in the shoulder).

    You can rub it with a lot of things, but I've found that, in general, the onion and vinegar add the most flavor. The rub is nuance -- and as such, you should rub it with things that have a nuanced flavor, rather than an OMG WOW flavor. Paprika is common, some ground pepper, some mustard seed, etc. Don't go crazy with hot and salt. Just google "pulled pork spice rub" and you'll find a ton of recipes -- pick one that appeals to you.

    I've cooked 3 pork butts in just the last 2 months and in all 3 cases I've added sauce after it was done to "boost" the flavor. It tasted very good right out of the pot but it typically could've used a bit more vinegar and a bit more spice. Don't be afraid to add some sauce or more spices when it's done and pulled apart -- as in, don't think it's a "failure" because it's not bursting with flavor. It's still predominantly pork flavored with pork fat and vinegar.

    Some people like apple vinegar -- I prefer the tangier "normal" vinegar.

    EggyToast on
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  • spazmojackspazmojack Hangin on the corner of 52nd and BroadwayRegistered User regular
    edited January 2010
    you could also pick yourself up a $40 bullet smoker. i've done a few butts in one and they have usually turned out pretty good.

    for rubs i like to go with a premixed cajun rub with some olive oil. lemon pepper is also pretty good if you're not feelin very cajun-like.

    put the butt on the smoker for about 4-6 hours, depending on how big it is and how much beer you drink. then double wrap it in foil and stick it in the oven for another 4-6 hours at around 200F, while that's going you can sleep off the beer. get up the next morning, shred the butt, mix it with a sauce of your choice (or non at all since it should still taste awesome) and enjoy.

    share with friends and they'll think it's the best thing they've ever tasted.

    spazmojack on
  • PirateJonPirateJon Registered User regular
    edited January 2010
    So it's all going to be done, most likely, using the oven
    Not possible. You can't smoke meat without lots of smoke.


    This is the only BBQ recipe I've made (includes video)
    http://www.foodnetwork.com/recipes/alton-brown/pulled-pork-recipe/index.html

    This is a DIY $50 smoker from Good Eats.
    http://lifehacker.com/5350455/build-a-bbq-smoker-for-under-50

    PirateJon on
    all perfectionists are mediocre in their own eyes
  • DjeetDjeet Registered User regular
    edited January 2010
    Cooking meat in a crock pot, while it might give you pulled pork, is not actually BBQ. BBQ involves smoking meat (I'd add for extended periods of time over low temps, but some believe in hot smoking). On the hot side of BBQ is grilling (high temp, shorter cooktime, less smoke involvement).

    Pulled pork: I've done it on a charcoal grill and I've done it Alton Brown's way, and I have to say AB's method was a shitton easier cause the heat control is so much easier. A charcoal grill requires you constantly add fuel and chips every 20-30 minutes whereas using a hot plate to heat up the chunks to smoking inside terra cotta pots pretty much only requires you to exchange out the chunks every 2-3 hours. Once you have a nice bark on the pork butt you can finish in the oven.

    Steps:
    (1) overnight (12 hr) brine
    (2) work the rub into the meat and wrap in plastic wrap and place in fridge overnight (8+ hours)
    (3) take meat out for an hour to reach room temp, while this is happening prepare your smoking chamber
    (4) smoke at 200 degrees for a long time (about 60-90 minutes a pound) until meat reaches internal temp of 190. Once you've started this, assemble yourself a Carolina-style finishing sauce: cider vinegar, pepper, salt, dijon mustard, brown sugar (though I used honey last time), cayenne, plus other amendments you see fit. shake vigorously and place in fridge for 8+ hours.
    (5) wrap in foil and let sit long enough so you can pull it apart.
    (6) pull apart with forks.
    (7) eat (you could also make a slaw or something to go with it).

    Last pork butt I did (Thanksgiving) took me 14 hours (10 pounder). You can make it less of a marathon by using the oven. Once you've developed a nice bark (4-10+ hours depending upon size, you'll know it has a good bark cause it will look like a fucking meteor) stick it in an oven at 215 till it reaches internal temp of 190.

    Pick a pork butt with a nice thick fat cap, too thin and the meat will dry out over the long cooktime. A wireless grill thermometer helps a lot (17$ at Walmart).

    The only problem with building the AB smoker is finding terra cotta pots of the right size that fit one another. You may have to hit several stores to find the right combo.

    Djeet on
  • EggyToastEggyToast Jersey CityRegistered User regular
    edited January 2010
    From what I've read the jury is out on whether smoking it the hard way actually provides a better flavor compared to liquid smoke in a crock pot, since the smoke is a flavor additive either way (and hickory liquid smoke is simply condensed hickory smoke vapor).

    As someone who is comfortable grilling but not comfortable setting up food to cook outside for 12+ hours, the crock pot method is a fantastic way to try it out with little fear of it failing. It also requires you just having a crock pot, instead of constructing anything.

    I'm not against actual smoking, of course, but I personally dislike cooking instructions that involve things like "leave this thing burning for hours unattended." That might just be me, though. Alternatively, the crock pot method you can do in an apartment.

    EggyToast on
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  • DjeetDjeet Registered User regular
    edited January 2010
    Have you ever eaten "burnt ends," or just peeled off some bark from a long slow smoked hunk of meat? If not, I highly recommend you try some. I personally do not think liquid smoke compares.

    Leaving things burning unattended is seldom good advice, so long smoking periods require at least periodic attention (I get up early and all I do that day is smoke, or smoke the day before and re-heat the day of) and risk is attenuated 2 ways: (1) a properly setup charcoal smoker will just go out when the fuel is spent, unless someone knocks it over onto more fuel (always setup over concrete/rock) there's little chance of fire and (2) wireless thermometer (probe attaches to base by an insulated wire, readout is a little PDA-looking device), set it up to beep at 215 so you can catch it when it gets too hot. The wireless thing makes life a lot easier when you're doing a big BBQ, you can keep it on you to check temp while doing other prep.

    Smoking is a completely different beast from grilling. Anyone can grill some burgers or chicken breasts in 10-20 minutes, but keeping a charcoal grill smoking within a 20-30 degree range for hours and hours takes some practice and judgement. Purpose-made smokers (bullet, the egg) might be easier but I've never used one.

    That said, a brined pork butt is pretty forgiving though it will take a long ass time to cook. A 3 lb beercan chicken would be a less intimidating initial smoke, though make sure to cook it til it's done. Tent some foil on top of it to prevent the top from burning.

    Djeet on
  • PongePonge Registered User regular
    edited January 2010
    I don't think 'liquid smoke' exists here in the UK. From Wikipedia it seems that it's against health regulations. Is it that important if I want to crockpot some pork? I imagine it gives it a 'smokey' flavour, and that it will be even less BBQ'ish without it, but it'll still taste awesome... right?

    Ponge on
  • RaekreuRaekreu Registered User regular
    edited January 2010
    Ponge wrote: »
    I don't think 'liquid smoke' exists here in the UK. From Wikipedia it seems that it's against health regulations. Is it that important if I want to crockpot some pork? I imagine it gives it a 'smokey' flavour, and that it will be even less BBQ'ish without it, but it'll still taste awesome... right?

    It'll still taste good but the smokiness is one of the most important flavor components of BBQ. Here's a trick, though, and it may take a little work to get it right: you can make your own liquid smoke easily if you want to use the crock pot.

    Basically, you get some wood - hickory is probably the most common - and set it on fire on a grill in your back yard. You put the lid on said grill and keep the vents nearly closed so that it becomes a nice smokey fire. All you have to do at that point is put a pot of water on the grill and let it boil. Get a large pot lid and hold it over the vent on the grill lid. The steam from the boiling water combined with the smoke will condense onto the bottom of the pot lid. This is how liquid smoke is made scaled down to a back yard operation.

    Tons of prep work but Alton Brown said that it works.

    Raekreu on
  • CarolinaBBQCarolinaBBQ Registered User regular
    edited January 2010
    EggyToast wrote: »
    The key to BBQ -- in my opinion -- is vinegar. All the rubs in the world won't matter if you're not cooking your meat with some nice tangy vinegar.

    That's a definite go on the vinegar....fuck that ketchup shit.

    Throw some red peppers in a vinegar jar and let it sit in there forever. I love just throwing that on top of my bbq before I eat. Don't forget coleslaw.

    CarolinaBBQ on
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  • TzyrTzyr Registered User regular
    edited January 2010
    If you enjoy smoked pulled pork and you do not have access to a smoker (I know I sure do not), I highly recommend using Lapsang Souchong tea method. It's simply using the aroma of a very smoky tea, it can simulate a smoker and does a very good job of it.

    I've made this several times, even for this Christmas dinner and my family really enjoyed it!

    Here's the method (I've copied what the recipe I was given below, and added any notes):
    Software:
    Dry rub (see below)
    1 (5 pound) boneless pork butt, cut in half widthwise
    1/4 cup finely ground Lapsang Souchong tea (about 12 tea bags)
    1/2 cup apple juice
    2 1/2 cups Barbecue sauce.

    Hardware:
    large rimmed baking sheet*
    Baking Stone**
    heavy-duty aluminum foil
    wire rack (that fits in baking sheet)

    *I've also had luck using a nice heavy duty dutch oven (something that can seal tightly with the lid). Only problem was for the broiling part, I just moved the rack instead of having the second rack in place.

    **If you do not have one, it's ok; I've tried with both. It's better with, but as long as the meat is tender, you should not really notice any difference. The biggest thing I noticed was it took longer to get tender without the stone.


    1. Mix the dry rub (will put recipe below) together, then rub the mixture evenly over the pork. Wrap the pork in plastic wrap and refrigerate for at least 8 or up to 24 hours.

    2. Transfer the pork to the freezer and freeze until well chilled, about 45 minutes. Adjust the oven racks to the lowest and upper-middle positions (the upper rack should be at least 5 inches below the broiler). Place a baking stone on the lower rack and heat the oven to 500 degrees.

    3. Line a large rimmed baking sheet with foil. Sprinkle the tea evenly over the bottom of the baking sheet and top with a wire rack. Unwrap the pork, transfer to the prepared wire rack, and cover with heavy-duty aluminum foil, crimping the edges tightly to seal. Place the baking sheet on the baking stone and roast the pork for 30 minutes.

    4. Reduce the oven temperature to 250 degrees, leaving the oven door open for 1 minute to cool. While the oven is open, carefully open one corner of the foil and pour the apple juice into the bottom of the baking sheet; reseal the foil. Continue to roast the pork until the meat is very tender and meets little resistance when poked with a fork, about 4 hours.*** (Begin to check the pork after 3 hours; leave loosely covered with foil for the remaining cooking time.)

    5. Remove the foil and move the baking sheet to the upper-middle oven rack. Turn on the broiler and broil the pork until well browned and crisp in spots, 5 to 10 minutes. Flip the meat over and continue to broil until well browned and crisp, 5 to 7 minutes longer.

    6. Transfer the pork to a cutting board, and let rest, uncovered, until just cool enough to handle, about 30 minutes. Shred the meat into thin shreds, discarding the large pieces of fat. Toss the shredded meat with 1/2 cup of the sauce and serve, passing the remaining sauce separately.

    ***Please note that this worked fine for my 2-2.5 pound roast, which each time was fresh not frozen. When I did it for Christmas dinner, we had a 6 pound roast (so cutting in half was two pieces about 3 pounds), which initially was frozen, and let thawed in the fridge for more than 24 hours, it took much much longer; unfortunately. It roughly took 6.5 hours to cook, and though tender and delicious, it was not as nice as when I had used smaller pieces.

    Dry rub recipe:
    3 tablespoons sweet paprika
    2 tablespoons dark brown sugar
    4 teaspoons chili powder
    1 tablespoon salt (I use/prefer kosher)
    2 teaspoons ground cumin
    2 teaspoons ground black pepper

    As for the BBQ sauce, though I've made many over the years, this was the one that was accompanied with the pulled pork recipe above, and it's not too bad. Not that spicy, but easy to fix:
    2 tablespoons vegetable oil (butter works well too)
    1 medium onion, minced
    1 medium garlic clove, minced (about 1 teaspoon)
    1 teaspoon chili powder
    1/4 teaspoon cayenne pepper
    1 1/4 cups ketchup
    1/2 cup water (I usually replace with apple juice)
    1/3 cup molasses
    3 tablespoons cider vinegar
    3 tablespoons Worcestershire sauce
    3 tablespoons Dijon Mustard (I'm not found of Dijon, so I've used yellow or honey mustard instead)
    1 teaspoon hot sauce
    Salt and ground black pepper to taste

    1. Heat the oil in a large sauce pan over medium heat until shimmering. Add the onion and cook until softened, 5 to 7 minutes. Stir in the garlic, chili powder, and cayenne and cook until fragrant, about 30 seconds.

    2. Stir in the remaining ingredients and simmer over medium-low heat, stirring occasionally, until the sauce is thickened, about 15 minutes. Season with salt and pepper to taste and strain the sauce (if desired) before serving.

    Tzyr on
  • ShogunShogun Hair long; money long; me and broke wizards we don't get along Registered User regular
    edited January 2010
    Sauce:

    6 TBSP Ketchup
    4 TBSP Vinegar
    2 TBSP Lemon Juice
    4 TBSP Worchestershire
    8 TBSP Water
    4 TBSP Butter
    4 TBSP Brown Sugar (darker the better)
    2 tsp Salt
    2 tsp Dry Mustard
    2 tsp Chili Powder
    2 tsp Paprika
    2 tsp Seasoned Salt
    1 tsp Black Pepper

    Mix it in a small pot, simmer for 10-15 minutes. The sauce is a bit thin, but its taste is remarkable. If you wish to thicken it or make it stick to the meat better use cold water and with the water mix a bit of corn starch in there. Using a small ceramic casserole dish put your meat in and fill it with the sauce. Keep the lid on tight and put it in the oven. Chicken you can cook at a higher temp so it will be done faster, but for pork cook it low and slow. The meat will fall apart at the press of a fork.

    Shogun on
  • DecomposeyDecomposey Registered User regular
    edited January 2010
    My family has passed down the BBQ sauce recipe for generations, and over that time it has resulted in many burned fingers/mouths as people stick their hands into the pot to steal some of the sauce. Great on chicken, pork, turkey, and beef. Being a family 'recipe', it's not so much a recipe as a list of ingredients, requiring several years of eating the sauce to know exactly how it should taste when you make it.

    Ketchup
    Brown Sugar
    Butter
    Worcestershire Sauce
    Cumen
    Garlic
    Tumeric
    Chili Powder
    Pepper
    Salt

    Dump Ketchup in sauce pan over low-medium heat until bottom is covered. Add butter, stir until melted. Add sugar, stir until melted. Stir in worcestershire. Add other spice and stir. Sauce should be a mahogony color. If not red enough/too brown, add ketchup. If too red, add more sugar/worcester. Stick sppon into sauce, let cool a moment, then taste, adjusting other ingredients until the sauce tastes right. Result should be a thick (sticks well to meat when applied with a brush), sweet and spicy sauce that crisps to red-black on a grill and conceals into a paste a room temperature. Always serve hot.

    Decomposey on
    Before following any advice, opinions, or thoughts I may have expressed in the above post, be warned: I found Keven Costners "Waterworld" to be a very entertaining film.
  • strategerystrategery Registered User regular
    edited January 2010
    This thread makes me hungry, but it's some awesome advice guys! thanks keep it comin!

    As far as a smoker, is there anything else I should know besides just get one? Like smoking times? Things to add while smoking?

    strategery on
    Strategeryz0r.png
  • spazmojackspazmojack Hangin on the corner of 52nd and BroadwayRegistered User regular
    edited January 2010
    strategery wrote: »
    This thread makes me hungry, but it's some awesome advice guys! thanks keep it comin!

    As far as a smoker, is there anything else I should know besides just get one? Like smoking times? Things to add while smoking?

    so for times and temps, in general you want to try and keep the temp around 200-225F and smoking for 1.5 hrs per lb. at least these are the measures i usually shoot for.

    only disturb the meat if absolutely necessary (aka, as little as possible), any time you lift the lid you're letting out precious heat that will take a lot more time to build up than it did to escape. really the only adjustments you should be making are to add more hot coals when necessary.

    spazmojack on
  • DjeetDjeet Registered User regular
    edited January 2010
    If you want to try your hand at setting up your charcoal grill for smoking, this is how I set mine up; problem there is reloading the coals and chips, you have to lift the meat and water tray so you can lift the cooking grill to access the coals, unless your cooking grill permits the sides to lift up. The water pans act to keep moisture in the smoking chamber and serves as a heat sink.

    The problem with long smoke times on a charcoal grill is you have to lift the top to add fuel and chips. So you lose all your heat, and since your coals are burning low heat it takes longer to get the temp back up; this results in extending your cooktime. It's doable though. A bullet or water smoker should allow side entry to add fuel and chips so you lose less heat and can get temp back up quicker.

    Smoking by cooktime can be problematic, safer to cook til you reach a specific internal temp, or with ribs, til you can twist the rib bone in the meat and have it turn.

    Best BBQ sauce I've homemade used the jus that wept out of the meat as it rested. Whisked it (fat and all) in a saucepan with vinegar, ketchup, mustard, salt, pepper, cayenne and honey.

    Try different types of wood chunks/chips, I like apple, pecan and oak.

    Djeet on
  • HypatiaHypatia Registered User regular
    edited January 2010
    Rub

    1/2 cup paprika
    1/2 cup salt
    1/2 cup light brown sugar
    1/2 cup garlic powder
    6 tbsp onion powder
    1/4 cup chili powder
    1 tbsp black pepper
    1 tsp ground cumin
    1/2 tsp cayenne pepper

    Dump these all into a medium tupperware container, seal it, then shake it until it's all mixed together.

    Sauce

    1/4 cup vegetable oil
    1 cup minced onion
    1/2 cup minced green pepper
    1 jalapeno pepper seeded and minced
    2 tbsp minced garlic
    1 can (28 oz) tomato sauce
    2 cups ketchup
    1 cup water
    3/4 cup worcestershire sauce
    1/2 cup cider vinegar
    1/4 cup lemon juice
    1/4 cup molasses
    1/4 cup cayenne pepper sauce
    1/4 cup spicy brown mustard
    3/4 cup packed dark brown sugar
    1 tbsp chili powder
    2 tsp black pepper (coarsely ground)
    1/2 tsp allspice
    1 tbsp liquid smoke (optional)

    Put the oil in a big (really huge) suacepan and heat to medium-high. Put the onions, peppers, and jalapeno in, season with salt and pepper to taste (usually a pinch) and keep stirring it until everything is an even soft and mushy golden color. Add the garlic and cook for another minute, then dump everything else in except the liquid smoke. Boil it, making sure to stir to keep stuff from burning on the bottom, then lower it to a simmer for 10 minutes. Take it off the heat and stir in the liquid smoke if you're adding it, then let the sauce cool. When it's cool you can put it in containers to store it. If you want it to be hotter you can add habanero peppers or more jalapenos when you make it.

    Pulled Pork in an oven

    1.5 tbsp vegetable oil
    8 tbsp rub
    1 Boston butt
    Sauce to taste

    Preheat your oven to 225-250F. Pull out a big enough sheet of foil to put your meat on, then take about 8 tbsp of your rub, dump it into a bowl, add the vegetable oil and use your fingers to mush it together until you get even clumps. Smear this all over the butt until you get a nice even coating, then wrap the whole thing in foil. Put it in a pan with edges because it'll leak juice while it cooks, or on a grill above a pan with edges to catch what drips...I've never had a problem with it sitting in its juices though.

    Stuff the pan into the oven and go to work, letting it cook for 6-8 hours. When you get home inhale the aroma and take the pan out of the oven. The first time you do it you can check the temperature to make sure the pork has reached 155F internally if you want to be safe. Dump the juice out, then crack it open and start pulling the pork off. The meat will actually be tender enough that it will fall apart so you can easily remove the fat if you want, and you can transfer it to a bowl to shred it with a fork. You can add the BBQ sauce as you shred or wait until you're done shredding and dump the sauce in then, then stir it all up and serve however you like it.

    It's absolutely delicious! The recipe says to do it with a 6-7 pound butt but I've done it with a 1.5-4 lb piece of meat with less rub and it's been fantastic.

    Hypatia on
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