Too slow, keep dying. [MW2 NAT type]

Balgair

My NAT type in Modern Warfare 2 is "moderate." I want it to be open. My Xbox 360 is connected wirelessly via wifi adapter. My router is a Linksys WRT54G2. Cable internet, roughly 15mbps DL/2mbps UL (relevant?). Here's what I've tried so far:

-Enabling UPnP

-Disabling UPnP

-Manual Xbox IP Settings
Static IP: 192.168.1.20
Subnet Mask: 255.255.255.0
Gateway: 192.168.1.1

-Manual Xbox DNS Settings
Primary DNS: 4.2.2.2
Secondary DNS: 192.168.1.1

-Port Forwarding
Enabled ports 80, 88, 3074, and 6112 on IP 192.168.1.20
(I don't know where I got these numbers, but whatever)

-Reset router/modem/xbox (multiple times).

-Tried updating router firmware (current version is 1.3.00 build 028, Dec 5 2008), but couldn't find a newer version for my specific model.

ANYWAY. I wouldn't care if it wasn't so obvious in MW2. I know a lot of people play on Moderate NAT types, but I can't fucking do it, lag is very evident. Plus, I can't hear like half of the people in the game lobbies (pro or con?), nor can 2 Xboxes in the house play together. Any suggestions would be great. I'm gonna try to be more thorough with the firmware update search, but if anyone else has a lead, let me know. Thanks.

FyreWulff

Your NAT type won't affect lag, it affects who you can connect to.

You probably can't hear half the people because a bunch of MW2 players have changed their Xbox voice settings to "friends only".

Balgair

I was told explicitly that NAT type can directly affect voice communication.

As far as the lag goes, what else could it be? My internet speed is good, and consistent. My wireless signal is full. Googling shows me lots of people with minor lag issues attributed to NAT type.

EDIT: In regard to the firmware, Linksys seems to suggest that my firmware version is up to date. http://www.linksysbycisco.com/US/en/support/WRT54G2/download and Microsoft is implying that my router requires firmware 3.01.3 or 3.03.6 (http://www.xbox.com/zh-SG/support/xbox360live/connect_to_xbox_live/home_networking/equipment_routers.htm). Hmmm..

FyreWulff

What's your internet speed, and is anybody using Bittorrent? The massive amount of connections BT opens can slaughter some routers and slow down everyone, even if you've set the upload cap to 20kb/sec..

Balgair

No torrent clients running, and the laptop I'm using currently is the only other connected device in the house, and I'm just browsing. Sometimes we have two laptops connected, but no gaming (macs lol) or intensive downloading.

EDIT: internet speed is roughly 15mbps DL/ 2mbps UL

Balgair

Halp! Imaginary lag or not, I want to know why the fuck I can't have an open NAT type. I have done everything I can think of to solve this problem. My router is not listed as incompatible, therefore it should work...right? RIGHT?

zilo

It's not your NAT type. The causes of lag are many and varied- could be some settings on your router, could be something your ISP is doing, could be on the XBL end of things, the list goes on and on.

One easy way to remove an element from the equation is to plug your 360 directly into your router and see if you're still lagging.

Hahnsoo1

Is your cable split at any point? One of the most common causes of loss of bandwidth and increased lag is the fact that the cable that goes to your cable modem is split at some point to go to a TV somewhere. Most splitters don't cause problems, but I've seen this happen in four or five installations. Even if the cable modem is plugged into the only cable coming out of the wall, the cable could be split somewhere within the walls of the house (shoddy design).

If you have a splitter, try removing it and plugging only the modem to the cable. Run everything else normally.

Check all of your hardware connections. Replace Ethernet cables, run directly to the router, replace the router (borrow a friends, first, don't buy a new one "just because").

Casual

Wireless is just terrible for online FPS gaming in general. If you're serious about getting rid of the lag get a wired connection.

Captain Vash

Hahnsoo1 wrote: »

Is your cable split at any point? One of the most common causes of loss of bandwidth and increased lag is the fact that the cable that goes to your cable modem is split at some point to go to a TV somewhere. Most splitters don't cause problems, but I've seen this happen in four or five installations. Even if the cable modem is plugged into the only cable coming out of the wall, the cable could be split somewhere within the walls of the house (shoddy design).

If you have a splitter, try removing it and plugging only the modem to the cable. Run everything else normally.

Check all of your hardware connections. Replace Ethernet cables, run directly to the router, replace the router (borrow a friends, first, don't buy a new one "just because").

considering all cable installations are done from a single line coming in from the street, you're not talking about a splitter being poor design, you're talking about a splitter that has "gone out".

I second the "try a direct outlet cable connection" motion though.

Casual wrote: »

Wireless is just terrible for online FPS gaming in general. If you're serious about getting rid of the lag get a wired connection.

Doc

Casual wrote: »

Wireless is just terrible for online FPS gaming in general. If you're serious about getting rid of the lag get a wired connection.

Uh do you have any hard data to back this up?

FyreWulff

His wireless router is definitely more than enough to handle the traffic.

I'd try the direct modem connection first. Then you can figure out if it's the router or your internet.

Captain Vash

Doc wrote: »

Casual wrote: »

Wireless is just terrible for online FPS gaming in general. If you're serious about getting rid of the lag get a wired connection.

Uh do you have any hard data to back this up?

He's running with the xbox wireless adaptor, and a wrt54g2, that means his max laboratory conditions signal is 54mbs, neither of those connections are mimo, so we're running at half duplex, so call it 27mbs, laboratory, throw in your neighbors wifi network, grandpas old hand me down microwave, the ten thousand and one 2.4ghz home phones on the block, a wall or two, and we're probably looking at a max throughput of 10mbs or so, with plenty of packet correction, which will result in many times higher ping rates.

Barrakketh

Doc wrote: »

Casual wrote: »

Wireless is just terrible for online FPS gaming in general. If you're serious about getting rid of the lag get a wired connection.

Uh do you have any hard data to back this up?

If you have any other people on your network doing something other than web browsing it can negatively impact your latency, sometimes in a really big way. Wireless being half-duplex is a bitch, as I learned a week ago when someone else decided to download a map update for their GPS while I was playing TF2. Latency from the router to the server was fine, and I've goofed around on servers while downloading torrents on the same machine with a barely noticeable increase to my ping (partly attributable to QoS on the WAN end).

@Captain Vash, half-duplex doesn't suddenly half your bandwidth. It means that it can only either send or receive data at any given time, not do both simultaneously. The only reason why I'm seriously considering running some CAT-6 now is that Vista doesn't always play nice with my wireless adapter which gives me high latency until I disable and re-enable the device. The Linux drivers work flawlessly with it, so no complaints there. In any event, from my PC to the router I get pings of <1 ms. Half-duplex also means that the problems gets worse the more clients you have using the network simultaneously.

I also have fairly ideal settings for my network since the closest person living near me is about six hundred feet away.

Captain Vash

I am fully aware that wireless has improved by leaps and bounds recently, and that for most people it's worth the saved hassle.

However whenever it is at all feasible, run the wire.

ascannerlightly

Balgair wrote: »

Plus, I can't hear like half of the people in the game lobbies (pro or con?)

definately a pro. i think i wore a hole in my "file report" button this today.

Hahnsoo1

Captain Vash wrote: »

Hahnsoo1 wrote: »

Is your cable split at any point? One of the most common causes of loss of bandwidth and increased lag is the fact that the cable that goes to your cable modem is split at some point to go to a TV somewhere. Most splitters don't cause problems, but I've seen this happen in four or five installations. Even if the cable modem is plugged into the only cable coming out of the wall, the cable could be split somewhere within the walls of the house (shoddy design).

If you have a splitter, try removing it and plugging only the modem to the cable. Run everything else normally.

Check all of your hardware connections. Replace Ethernet cables, run directly to the router, replace the router (borrow a friends, first, don't buy a new one "just because").

considering all cable installations are done from a single line coming in from the street, you're not talking about a splitter being poor design, you're talking about a splitter that has "gone out".

Only if you live in a house. Apartments and condos can vary greatly, especially in shadier areas of the city you're living in.

Krikee

Captain Vash wrote: »

Doc wrote: »

Casual wrote: »

Wireless is just terrible for online FPS gaming in general. If you're serious about getting rid of the lag get a wired connection.

Uh do you have any hard data to back this up?

He's running with the xbox wireless adaptor, and a wrt54g2, that means his max laboratory conditions signal is 54mbs, neither of those connections are mimo, so we're running at half duplex, so call it 27mbs, laboratory, throw in your neighbors wifi network, grandpas old hand me down microwave, the ten thousand and one 2.4ghz home phones on the block, a wall or two, and we're probably looking at a max throughput of 10mbs or so, with plenty of packet correction, which will result in many times higher ping rates.

to OP: Read this post. Wireless in of itself is not a bad way to communicate but for signals that require high availability, such as games, you don't want another device to start broadcasting their signal when you're running around a corner bringing your sights down on someone. If you're warping around in your games that is packet loss and is directly linked to using a wireless connection. If it is lag you just have a delay in your actions which is much more bearable.

Casual

Doc wrote: »

Casual wrote: »

Wireless is just terrible for online FPS gaming in general. If you're serious about getting rid of the lag get a wired connection.

Uh do you have any hard data to back this up?

Just my own anecdotal evidence and experience. My friends who know a lot more than I do recommended I stop using wireless after I complained I was getting bad lag while playing FPS's. I started using wired and problem solved.

My buddy gave me a complicated explanation why this was the case at the time but frankly I forget. :P

EclecticGroove

Casual wrote: »

Just my own anecdotal evidence and experience. My friends who know a lot more than I do recommended I stop using wireless after I complained I was getting bad lag while playing FPS's. I started using wired and problem solved.

My buddy gave me a complicated explanation why this was the case at the time but frankly I forget. :P

It's all about latency. Even sitting next to your Wireless router the data will still not be moving as fast as it would on a wired connection. Other things like overhear and encryption can facotr in, but those are pretty moot points with modern wireless connections.

As for the OP's NAT question. you can't change your NAT type. That is how the system is negotiating NAT. The only thing that would change it would be a different router, or (possibly) different firmware for the router. Not all implementations of NAT are equal, some are crappier than others. The WRT54G's are generally middle of the road, just like pretty much every other home router out there that isn't a total piece of crap.

The only ways you might improve the responsiveness would be to "possibly" DMZ and/or create static routes directly to the 360. That way you have the potential to relying on the routers NAT tables as little as possible.

Doing that may or may not resolve the issue you have with the voice chat on live, that depends on exactly what's causing it of course.

Balgair

Thanks for the responses, guys. I've taken much of your knowledge into consideration and I want to make it clear that I do acknowledge that there are many many ways in which I could be experiencing lag, and that I'm in no way convinced that my NAT type is even relevant. Though, I was hoping I could at least resolve that issue and move on from there--but it appears that hardware replacement may be in order for that to be achieved.

In the mean time, I'm going to connect the xbox directly to the modem and see if I can't narrow down the sources of my woes. I'll get back to you on the results.