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On the pulse of the table-top community...

VerseVerse Registered User regular
edited January 2010 in Help / Advice Forum
...or at least I hope.

The city and area I live in, is totally devoid of fun. I'm a huge tabletop fan... and in a city that is over 900 square miles in size (Jacksonville, FL... I live in a town, 15 min outside of Jacksonville, which is nothing but a stretch of suburbs and strip malls to the city line, where the suburbs and strip malls continue), we only have TWO dedicated tabletop gaming stores... both on the opposite side of town. The rest are just comic shops with a small box of Magic cards and a tiny stand of Warhammer figurines in a corner.

So, after realizing that my 30th year is creeping up on me, real fast, and that I want to get out of my cubicle, analyzing boring data in poorly designed databases all day... I'm going for the American Dream and be my own boss and open a tabletop/hobby store.

I'm already talking with a bank, vendors and a commercial real estate agent, to start moving forward... to either crash and burn or rise above the challenge.

I know I'm hitting tl;dr territory, but what would your dream shop contain? Of course, the standard Warhammer, 40k, Warmachine/Hordes, D&D and all the accessories (paints, books, etc). Magic and the WoW CCG of course. Even games like Call of Cthulhu, Shadowrun, Vampire: The Masquerade and if Crimson Skies and Battletech are still around... (are they still around in tabletop form?) and even board games.

I know some vendors, like Game Workshop, has officially sponsored events for stores around the country, but what would be great incentives to get the gamers into the store for just store sponsored tournaments? Would gamers like places to play their D&D games rather then the table at their breakfast nook? How do I get them to come in and to keep coming back in? What would you want?

Verse on

Posts

  • A BearA Bear Registered User regular
    edited January 2010
    This thread might have some useful information for you. The short version of it is: the industry is dying, and its impossible to please everyone.

    A Bear on
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  • Ziac45Ziac45 Registered User regular
    edited January 2010
    My friend just opened up a gamestore here in Maryland actually. He seems to be doing pretty well and all the feedback has been positive, the main thing is Keep it clean, well lit, have nice gaming tables, for warhammer and just nice base tables for card games and such. A lot of people will come in to work on models if you get a big warhammer crowd so having little small tray type deals to cover the tables from glue and paint spills is very nice.

    Also do not neglect one game, for example the old game store in Western Maryland (since closed down) had a huge warhammer 40k following, but decided that regular warhammer wasn't selling and stopped carrying any stock. Well with the new store in town Warhammer is easily as big as 40k if not larger, simply because the owner knows how to play and is willing to help people.

    Demo tables are also a necessity, its a great way to get people into the miniature games and I can't see a reason not to have them.

    On the money side I don't know much about your savings but maybe keep your job when you first open, maybe work fewer hours at your store, my friend is open thursday friday and saturday from 6-11 on the weekdays and 3-11 on saturday. Everyone would like more hours but he seems to do well on business and I know he made a profit in the past 3 months he has been open. But keeping his job allowed him to have the business with no real threat to his lifestyle.

    Edit: I have more to add actually, be as friendly as possible to your clients and try and develop friendships with them, this will keep them coming back. Have a rule against trading in your store where trading models is fine, but if they want to sell inside the store it will have to be in store credit, reasonable people don't have a problem following this rule. A prize for tournaments is a very easy way to get people in, I think GW gives each store a certain amount of prize support but I could be wrong, its fairly easy to charge an entry fee and then give half of the total amount you get back to the winner in store credit.

    Ziac45 on
  • VerseVerse Registered User regular
    edited January 2010
    Ziac45 wrote: »
    My friend just opened up a gamestore here in Maryland actually. He seems to be doing pretty well and all the feedback has been positive, the main thing is Keep it clean, well lit, have nice gaming tables, for warhammer and just nice base tables for card games and such. A lot of people will come in to work on models if you get a big warhammer crowd so having little small tray type deals to cover the tables from glue and paint spills is very nice.

    Also do not neglect one game, for example the old game store in Western Maryland (since closed down) had a huge warhammer 40k following, but decided that regular warhammer wasn't selling and stopped carrying any stock. Well with the new store in town Warhammer is easily as big as 40k if not larger, simply because the owner knows how to play and is willing to help people.

    Demo tables are also a necessity, its a great way to get people into the miniature games and I can't see a reason not to have them.

    On the money side I don't know much about your savings but maybe keep your job when you first open, maybe work fewer hours at your store, my friend is open thursday friday and saturday from 6-11 on the weekdays and 3-11 on saturday. Everyone would like more hours but he seems to do well on business and I know he made a profit in the past 3 months he has been open. But keeping his job allowed him to have the business with no real threat to his lifestyle.

    Edit: I have more to add actually, be as friendly as possible to your clients and try and develop friendships with them, this will keep them coming back. Have a rule against trading in your store where trading models is fine, but if they want to sell inside the store it will have to be in store credit, reasonable people don't have a problem following this rule. A prize for tournaments is a very easy way to get people in, I think GW gives each store a certain amount of prize support but I could be wrong, its fairly easy to charge an entry fee and then give half of the total amount you get back to the winner in store credit.

    I actually have a neighbor of mine, down the road, who owns his own private video game store and his business has been better then the GameStop down the road from him. He kept his day job (he is in the US Navy actually), but his wife works there in the afternoons... I'm still enjoying bachelorhood, so I'm not in the same boat as he is. I'm keeping my job, but I have some friends, that are still in college, who are willing to help out. Despite my complaints of being a corporate peon, I actually have a good career, so I don't want to loose that on something that could utterly fail.

    Since he sells video games, I'm thinking of partnering up with him in some fashion, like people who shop at his store gets discounts at mine and vice versa, using receipts or something. Help each other out. I'm actually going to have a full wall dedicated to just Warhammer, Warhammer 40k and their Lord of the Rings line. For the space I'm looking to fill, my cost is around $8,000 bucks on just the Warhammer inventory alone... so, I'm still toying with the idea of smaller wallspace for it and expand it later, if needed.

    As far as using the entry fee towards prizes... not a bad idea. I might also see if I can get my video game buddy and maybe we can organize some tournaments. He had a pretty successful Madden and Smash Bros. one at his store last year. I haven't really talked to GW yet about my role in the tournaments yet. I'm still getting the trade account set up and worrying about inventory. Nothing finalized yet. I'm definitely interested in expanding beyond just the GW tournaments though.

    I do think it's a great idea to set up tray tables to allow people to work on the models there. I didn't even think of that.

    My only thing, is that I want to get people in, to play, stuff beyond just the CCGs and Warhammer. If I can keep them inside, the long, the better. I know shops are attractive to the board gaming, CCG and war gaming crowd, but what about D&D, in terms of giving them space to play? Would they rather venture outside of the comfort of their home or their friend's home to play at a store? I guess that all depends on the set up.

    Verse on
  • Ziac45Ziac45 Registered User regular
    edited January 2010
    At my friends shop there is a private back room that people can reserve for D&D games (with a door to close to block off some of the other shop noise) it has a dry erase board and such. It is reservable through a membership type deal that you pay a fee each month and get certain benefits that include a 10% discount and ability to reserve the room and use store copies of games. It works pretty well for the groups that use it.

    Ziac45 on
  • HypatiaHypatia Registered User regular
    edited January 2010
    Just jumping on the "keep it clean and well lit" bandwagon. In particular, keep out the gaming funk! That's the biggest deterrent to my going in to buy things at those stores.

    Also, if you're selling miniatures I'd recommend keeping some kind of index that's newbie friendly along with organizing it for experienced people. It might just be my location but I have yet to see a place that doesn't require standing there for 30 minutes looking at every single figurine trying to find the stuff you want as a newbie ("I just want a tiefling bard! I can't even find anything that looks like a tiefling!").

    Hypatia on
  • Sir CarcassSir Carcass I have been shown the end of my world Round Rock, TXRegistered User regular
    edited January 2010
    Just want to echo that your best chance at success is to offer things that the person can't get online. Gaming tables, etc. You may want to get a couple of vending machines, too, or at least sell your own snacks and drinks. If you could make the gaming tables semi private, that would be good, too. Maybe some sort of moveable screens or curtains.

    Sir Carcass on
  • Ziac45Ziac45 Registered User regular
    edited January 2010
    Just want to echo that your best chance at success is to offer things that the person can't get online. Gaming tables, etc. You may want to get a couple of vending machines, too, or at least sell your own snacks and drinks. If you could make the gaming tables semi private, that would be good, too. Maybe some sort of moveable screens or curtains.

    I would be against making the Miniature gaming tables private, Roleplaying yes but a big part of getting a good group is for other players to be able to interact with people doing games or just hanging around. Selling at least drinks is almost necessary since a lot of these games go on for hours.

    Ziac45 on
  • VerseVerse Registered User regular
    edited January 2010
    Hypatia wrote: »
    Just jumping on the "keep it clean and well lit" bandwagon. In particular, keep out the gaming funk! That's the biggest deterrent to my going in to buy things at those stores.

    Also, if you're selling miniatures I'd recommend keeping some kind of index that's newbie friendly along with organizing it for experienced people. It might just be my location but I have yet to see a place that doesn't require standing there for 30 minutes looking at every single figurine trying to find the stuff you want as a newbie ("I just want a tiefling bard! I can't even find anything that looks like a tiefling!").

    Actually, that's a great idea! Have like a wall space stocked with starter sets for various games and dedicated for the beginning gamer, so they have a good place to start.
    Just want to echo that your best chance at success is to offer things that the person can't get online. Gaming tables, etc. You may want to get a couple of vending machines, too, or at least sell your own snacks and drinks. If you could make the gaming tables semi private, that would be good, too. Maybe some sort of moveable screens or curtains.

    Yeah, I had planned on having food there I can sell. The buddy of mine with his own video game store, he sells candy at the counter and he was even surprised by how much that sold.

    Verse on
  • CelestialBadgerCelestialBadger Registered User regular
    edited January 2010
    Ziac45 wrote: »
    Selling at least drinks is almost necessary since a lot of these games go on for hours.

    Clean toilets are important, too.

    CelestialBadger on
  • Sir CarcassSir Carcass I have been shown the end of my world Round Rock, TXRegistered User regular
    edited January 2010
    Ziac45 wrote: »
    Just want to echo that your best chance at success is to offer things that the person can't get online. Gaming tables, etc. You may want to get a couple of vending machines, too, or at least sell your own snacks and drinks. If you could make the gaming tables semi private, that would be good, too. Maybe some sort of moveable screens or curtains.

    I would be against making the Miniature gaming tables private, Roleplaying yes but a big part of getting a good group is for other players to be able to interact with people doing games or just hanging around. Selling at least drinks is almost necessary since a lot of these games go on for hours.

    My vision is like sliding curtains or something, so groups who want privacy can have it, while others can be open if they wish.

    Sir Carcass on
  • DragonPupDragonPup Registered User regular
    edited January 2010
    Your customers can get anything you sell cheaper on the internet, and they probably know this. As a result, customer service is key. Provide a place for them to play that's clean, comfortable, and well stocked.

    DragonPup on
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  • ihmmyihmmy Registered User regular
    edited January 2010
    our local nerd store also carries a lot of other board games, i.e. ninja buger, settlers of catan, etc. plus some classics like monopoly. It's a nice place to go for nifty games if you aren't necessarily looking for something quite so intense as warhammer/d&d/magic/etc. We actually started up nerd-night based on some games that we had slowly picked up from that stores, which is now morphing into d&d night.

    Don't forget to put stuff on sale sometimes too. I'm a sale-shopper... if it's on sale (and not just like 5% off) it's soooo much harder for me to resist

    ihmmy on
  • mspencermspencer PAX [ENFORCER] Council Bluffs, IARegistered User regular
    edited January 2010
    Would it be out of line to suggest the OP come to PAX and study the tabletop department -- both the selection of games AND the people who play them? I don't know if that's good advice or not. But it seems to me if you came to PAX and people-watched, that might help you understand your ideal customer base even more.

    I am of course MASSIVELY biased, so I would wait to hear thread consensus before thinking this is a good idea.

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  • ElinElin Registered User regular
    edited January 2010
    ihmmy wrote: »
    our local nerd store also carries a lot of other board games, i.e. ninja buger, settlers of catan, etc. plus some classics like monopoly. It's a nice place to go for nifty games if you aren't necessarily looking for something quite so intense as warhammer/d&d/magic/etc. We actually started up nerd-night based on some games that we had slowly picked up from that stores, which is now morphing into d&d night.

    Don't forget to put stuff on sale sometimes too. I'm a sale-shopper... if it's on sale (and not just like 5% off) it's soooo much harder for me to resist

    I had a friend who owned a gaming store and he told me that if you are not an official Rogue Trader with GW you have a limit to the sales you can do with their merchandise. Like when GW was doing 20% off he was only allowed to do 15%. This was 10 years ago or so, so I may be fuzzy on that. I know my other buddy that was official had GW outriders in the store weekly doing demos and that brought in good trade.

    Also - bits boxes and loose figures. If all you need is an arm to mod a guy, it's great to dig through a bit box and pay a quarter or whatever. And if you are doing CCG's, get a card guy. It'll help a lot.

    Elin on
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  • WassermeloneWassermelone Registered User regular
    edited January 2010
    You also might have to make the choice between family friendly and nerd friendly. A significant source of business might be mothers/fathers buying stuff for their kids and they might be turned away by neckbeards* swearing all over the place. Nerds can be rather crude if left unchecked. :)

    *a term of endearment!

    Wassermelone on
  • VerseVerse Registered User regular
    edited January 2010
    ihmmy wrote: »
    our local nerd store also carries a lot of other board games, i.e. ninja buger, settlers of catan, etc. plus some classics like monopoly. It's a nice place to go for nifty games if you aren't necessarily looking for something quite so intense as warhammer/d&d/magic/etc. We actually started up nerd-night based on some games that we had slowly picked up from that stores, which is now morphing into d&d night.

    Don't forget to put stuff on sale sometimes too. I'm a sale-shopper... if it's on sale (and not just like 5% off) it's soooo much harder for me to resist

    Yeah, board gaming is something I found lacking in the few other stores around town. I would be interested in selling stuff like Settlers of Catan and Twilight Imperium and other board games that the standard Monopoly or Risk player can graduate to.

    Verse on
  • CelestialBadgerCelestialBadger Registered User regular
    edited January 2010
    Stinky and ragged looking nerds might be bigger issues than swearing. Parents won't want to leave their children in a shop that is populated by men that look like paedophile stereotypes or homeless people. Don't be afraid to throw out Cat Piss Man.

    CelestialBadger on
  • Ziac45Ziac45 Registered User regular
    edited January 2010
    Yeah you will need some simple store rules, a very easy one is no swearing when there are younger people in the store. Solves that problem very quickly

    Ziac45 on
  • The_Glad_HatterThe_Glad_Hatter One Sly Fox Underneath a Groovy HatRegistered User regular
    edited January 2010
    The three gameshops i visited all went out of business one after the other. The current one seems to be doing pretty good, and i'm guessing it's because they also put a lot of focus on boardgames, which really opens the store up to all the girlfriends and casual gamers. get some eurogames in there i'd say (at least the stuff that's also on XBL, and some other simple friendly top games).

    The_Glad_Hatter on
  • jedikuonjijedikuonji Registered User regular
    edited January 2010
    There is a very successful FLGS in my area and I've chatted with the owner quite a bit about his continued success when other, similar stores, have folded and died while he has survived a flood and expanded his store space.

    Treat your business like a business.

    Yes, this is your hobby and you love it and that will help you when trying to sell to customers as your enthusiasm for your product will be genuine, but remember that you are a business first. Make a business plan and follow it. Be open to changing your plan if it is not working. Know what you want to do a year from now, two years, five years and update your plan as you accomplish your goals.

    Don't ignore your customers.

    Too many times I have seen game stores suffer from what I call the Friend Syndrome. The owner gets a set of regulars/friends who spend lots of time, and maybe some money, at the store. The owner spends time talking to these regulars about the games they like and meanwhile that first time, walk-in customer that has a question about a game is ignored/overlooked. New customer gets tired of waiting for the owner to finish his conversation and leaves. Store misses a sale and the customer lets his friends know all about the crappy game store and not to go there. Learn to tell your friends/regulars to hold on while you deal with another customer, if they aren't complete asses they will understand that you have a job to do.

    Reach out to game companies.

    Network. Contact companies and ask questions about upcoming releases. Ask if demo sets are available. Ask about promos for pre-orders (and don't sell the sweet promos on eBay, give them to people who actually pre-order through you). Find out if game companies will be in your area for some reason (convention, game day, etc) and offer to host them/see if they can stop by for some demos. Invite game companies to your store if you have a customer base for that company. One of the neatest things about my FLGS is that game companies will plan outings to the store to demo new/pre-release products.

    Special ordering is a must.

    Obviously you need to keep a stock of games/game supplies on hand to sell, but be sure to have a system to place and track custom orders. Make sure your customers know that if you don't have something on hand, you can get it for them.

    Weekly/Monthly events.

    Every Wednesday is board game night at my FLGS. On board game night people come to the store expecting to meet other board gamers and play those games. However, the thing that makes board game night successful is that the owner will break out a game and run it for the table. He will explain the rules, run a round or two of demo, then turn the group loose and then do the same thing for another game/group. If you get stuck or have a question, you can flag him down and ask, no problem. Some weeks it's even a brand new game that gets opened up and run.

    Game library on hand.

    My FLGS has an in store game library. There are DnD books that you can borrow to look up rules and a full selection of board games that you can check out and play. This has proved to be a great sales tool as people can try that $80 game, find that they love it, and then buy it. It's a lot easier to sell someone an expensive game right after they finish playing a fun round with their friends/fellow patrons.

    Tournaments

    Have a group of people who play MtG? Start hosting MtG tourneys with official prize support. This goes for any game that has sufficient interest.

    I'm sure there's more stuff I can think of, but I'm running out of steam and this post is probably long enough as it is.

    jedikuonji on
  • ihmmyihmmy Registered User regular
    edited January 2010
    oh, and don't have a terrible website. Our local store has such an ugly, uninformative site it's a bit embarrassing to be honest. No one expects you to track all your inventory on there or anything, but keep it simple, pretty, with important details near the front (i.e. if you do board game nights on Wed as suggested, list that on the site)

    ihmmy on
  • CelestialBadgerCelestialBadger Registered User regular
    edited January 2010
    ihmmy wrote: »
    No one expects you to track all your inventory on there or anything,

    But if you do, you can do internet sales as well. Also, people who want a book "this instant" because they cannot wait, can find you have it and drive to your store.

    CelestialBadger on
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