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Landlord holding an excessive amount from deposit? (WA)
mcdermott
Registered User regular
Registered User regular
Washington state, if anybody has specific knowledge.
Anyway, we just moved out (bought a house...yay!) and when our landlord returned our deposit they withheld almost four hundred dollars.
A large part of this was reasonable. We had accidentally damaged the stove when cleaning (about $60), had lost a garage door opening (oops, $75), and there was an issue where our check-out got bumped back so they charged us the extra day of rent (and a late fee, about $50 total). Also a cracked kitchen sprayer (about $30), which we didn't do and which they've since (grudgingly) agreed to drop...it was fair wear and tear, not abuse or neglect.
The real issue was this trumped-up "final cleaning" item (listed as such, with no details). We cleaned the place. I didn't know to take pictures, and didn't know to get something in writing saying the state was acceptable, but basically there was about a half-hour worth of piddly shit (a cobweb, a couple greasy shelves in the kitchen, a couple other small things) and they charged us two hundred dollars. Even. Which just shows what an arbitrary value it was.
When we asked for details they've still refused to detail exactly how many hours were involved and precisely what they did (they listed a lot of it). They also claimed to have "pictures," but a week and a half later (and two requests later) we're still waiting on that.
So far we've managed to get them to drop it to $100, but honestly that's not good enough for us.
However, we seem to have found a way to (possibly) regain the upper hand. Basically, in WA you have 14 days to return the deposit on a rental, along with an itemized list of any deductions...this must accompany the check (or payment), and it must be within 14 days. Go over 14 days, and you're required to return the deposit in full, regardless of any claims made regarding damage or charges.
We moved out the 14th of December. The letter they sent was dated the 1st of January (and didn't arrive until afterward, obviously). The check is dated 23 December, but that's irrelevant.
So we've gone ahead and sent an email, short and to the point, citing the relevant statute and requesting our entire deposit back. We sent a separate email, stating that as soon as our entire deposit was returned we'd be glad to discuss any charges assessed, and were interesting in finding a mutually agreeable arrangement (I honestly have no problem paying for things that are my fault). But at the end of the day, they were late getting it back to us, so that's that.
There are still issues. What we have for documentation is their original letter that accompanied the check...no postmark, but signed and dated 1 January. We also have their second letter (when we asked for more detail on "final cleaning") dated 10 January in which they specifically mention that their previous letter was dated 1 January (and signed). Also, on the second letter they explicitly admit that most of the cleaning deficiencies were noticed after check-out, after I had left with the impression that the place was fine (and nothing in writing, because I was dumb).
One issue is that the actual owner is a deployed sailor (at sea), the people we are dealing with (and have always dealt with) are listed as the landlord on the lease. The check is from the owner's account, and the owner was who we paid, but all paperwork regarding the lease and application was signed by the landlord (who is local). I don't think SSCRA applies here, but it may. Regardless, they had a month of notice before we moved out, so there's no reason arrangements could have been made to meet the 14-day window...also the 14-day window is mentioned on the lease despite the fact that he was deployed at that time as well.
So far I've emailed, and intend to follow up with a certified letter tomorrow, requesting my entire deposit back and informing them that I'll file in small claims court at the end of this week if I haven't received it by then.
Basically I'm wondering if there's any advice on what else I should do, and things I should be aware of. Also, I wondering what's up with the $200 "cleaning fee," because when googling the issue I ran across a ton of posts by people who had been charged the exact same bullshit amount. Is there a limit of $200 in some/most states, is that why they choose that? Or is it just a conveniently high number, yet low enough that most will just pay it? Also, I assume (from my reading of the law) that the return of the deposit doesn't actually void any claims against the deposit, it just means they have to pursue me for them (rather than the current situation, where I have to beg them for my money back). Like I said, just returns the upper hand to me. If they decide to pursue me (unlikely, since I intend to pay most of the non-cleaning charges) what is the standard of evidence/documentation for this "cleaning charge" bullshit. Do they have to have pictures, and shit? Because like I said, the place was pretty damn clean, and I highly doubt they'll be able to get any judge to award them that kind of money.
Be back later tonight or tomorrow to see if anybody has any advice. If there are any questions, obviously hit me with them.
Thanks!
Anyway, we just moved out (bought a house...yay!) and when our landlord returned our deposit they withheld almost four hundred dollars.
A large part of this was reasonable. We had accidentally damaged the stove when cleaning (about $60), had lost a garage door opening (oops, $75), and there was an issue where our check-out got bumped back so they charged us the extra day of rent (and a late fee, about $50 total). Also a cracked kitchen sprayer (about $30), which we didn't do and which they've since (grudgingly) agreed to drop...it was fair wear and tear, not abuse or neglect.
The real issue was this trumped-up "final cleaning" item (listed as such, with no details). We cleaned the place. I didn't know to take pictures, and didn't know to get something in writing saying the state was acceptable, but basically there was about a half-hour worth of piddly shit (a cobweb, a couple greasy shelves in the kitchen, a couple other small things) and they charged us two hundred dollars. Even. Which just shows what an arbitrary value it was.
When we asked for details they've still refused to detail exactly how many hours were involved and precisely what they did (they listed a lot of it). They also claimed to have "pictures," but a week and a half later (and two requests later) we're still waiting on that.
So far we've managed to get them to drop it to $100, but honestly that's not good enough for us.
However, we seem to have found a way to (possibly) regain the upper hand. Basically, in WA you have 14 days to return the deposit on a rental, along with an itemized list of any deductions...this must accompany the check (or payment), and it must be within 14 days. Go over 14 days, and you're required to return the deposit in full, regardless of any claims made regarding damage or charges.
We moved out the 14th of December. The letter they sent was dated the 1st of January (and didn't arrive until afterward, obviously). The check is dated 23 December, but that's irrelevant.
So we've gone ahead and sent an email, short and to the point, citing the relevant statute and requesting our entire deposit back. We sent a separate email, stating that as soon as our entire deposit was returned we'd be glad to discuss any charges assessed, and were interesting in finding a mutually agreeable arrangement (I honestly have no problem paying for things that are my fault). But at the end of the day, they were late getting it back to us, so that's that.
There are still issues. What we have for documentation is their original letter that accompanied the check...no postmark, but signed and dated 1 January. We also have their second letter (when we asked for more detail on "final cleaning") dated 10 January in which they specifically mention that their previous letter was dated 1 January (and signed). Also, on the second letter they explicitly admit that most of the cleaning deficiencies were noticed after check-out, after I had left with the impression that the place was fine (and nothing in writing, because I was dumb).
One issue is that the actual owner is a deployed sailor (at sea), the people we are dealing with (and have always dealt with) are listed as the landlord on the lease. The check is from the owner's account, and the owner was who we paid, but all paperwork regarding the lease and application was signed by the landlord (who is local). I don't think SSCRA applies here, but it may. Regardless, they had a month of notice before we moved out, so there's no reason arrangements could have been made to meet the 14-day window...also the 14-day window is mentioned on the lease despite the fact that he was deployed at that time as well.
So far I've emailed, and intend to follow up with a certified letter tomorrow, requesting my entire deposit back and informing them that I'll file in small claims court at the end of this week if I haven't received it by then.
Basically I'm wondering if there's any advice on what else I should do, and things I should be aware of. Also, I wondering what's up with the $200 "cleaning fee," because when googling the issue I ran across a ton of posts by people who had been charged the exact same bullshit amount. Is there a limit of $200 in some/most states, is that why they choose that? Or is it just a conveniently high number, yet low enough that most will just pay it? Also, I assume (from my reading of the law) that the return of the deposit doesn't actually void any claims against the deposit, it just means they have to pursue me for them (rather than the current situation, where I have to beg them for my money back). Like I said, just returns the upper hand to me. If they decide to pursue me (unlikely, since I intend to pay most of the non-cleaning charges) what is the standard of evidence/documentation for this "cleaning charge" bullshit. Do they have to have pictures, and shit? Because like I said, the place was pretty damn clean, and I highly doubt they'll be able to get any judge to award them that kind of money.
Be back later tonight or tomorrow to see if anybody has any advice. If there are any questions, obviously hit me with them.
Thanks!
mcdermott on
0
Posts
You can find all this info on WashingtonLawHelp.org - they have a ton of great info and resources and can pretty much walk you through the whole process, including sample letters to send to the landlords requesting your deposit. Good stuff.
They might be willing to give you back your other $100 just so they get to keep the other ammounts, and don't have to fight you for it. Worth a shot.
Best of luck
Overall, you've got it spot-on. Make sure to follow through with your small-claims threat if they don't pony up (and judging by their behavior so far, I'd expect that they won't). Keep your relevant paperwork and see if you can dig up anything else that might be pertinent.