Revisiting Killer7: step into the mind of a psychopath. (or several)

cj iwakuracj iwakura The Rhythm RegentBears The Name FreedomRegistered User regular
edited January 2010 in Games and Technology
Killer7 is a Gamecube and PS2 game made by a certifiably deranged developer by the name of Suda 51.

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You might be familiar with a couple of his later games.

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A guy named Shinji Mikami also produced it.

You're almost certainly familiar with some of his games.

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But this is about a different kind of crazy.


Though Killer7's also available for the PS2, it was developed for the Gamecube, and it arguably shows.
(I've never played the PS2 version, but I hear it doesn't look as good and the controls don't work half as well.)



Anyway, this game is weird.

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Killer7 controls on rails, similarly to Panzer Dragoon Orta and the like.

One button moves the character forward, another brings up the gun to shoot things with. You can use other buttons for special abilities and accessing the menu.

That's mostly all there is to the gameplay.


The plot, well, that's a whole other bucket of blood.

The Killer7 are a group of elite assassins tasked with bringing down the Heaven Smile, a sadistic group of terrorists who like to blow things up and kill people.

The player can switch between any of the Killer7's assassins. Here's what to expect from them, along with some other people.

The Players


Harman Smith

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"No matter how many times you try, the result will be the same."

The patriarch of the Killer7.
You can play as his younger version in NG+, which is called Killer8.

Constantly warring with another psychotic assassin named...


Kun Lan

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"It's just like our chess games. You always win."

He's immortal, evil, and also likes to kill. Little else is known about him, besides that he's been warring with Harman Smith for centuries.



Garcian Smith

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"Don't make me say it again. I'm a cleaner."

The leader of the active Killer7, he's the one who cleans up their messes... and their bodies.
Uses a silenced pistol. Don't expect him to be much good in a fight.



Dan Smith

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"Shit, there's more than 14."

Shoots first, asks questions later. One of the heaviest hitters in the 7, wields a heavy revolver.
If there was a second in command, it'd probably be Dan.


Kaede Smith

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"I changed my make-up. Did you notice?"

The only woman in the Killer7. Kaede uses an automatic rifle with a scope. Best for long-range sniping.
By the time she finishes reloading in a close-range fight, she'll be dead.


Kevin Smith

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"...."

No, not the filmmaker. Never speaks, and stabs a lot. Very quick, doesn't need to reload.


Coyote Smith

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"What did you say?"

A lock-picker with a quick mouth and a quicker shot.


Con Smith

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"Later! Peace."

A blind kid who shoots with two pistols. Can get into places the other six can't.



Mask de Smith

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"I'd like to talk to the owner. I'm here to kill him."

A luchador who wields two grenade launchers. Not to be trifled with, but his reload time takes forever.
(There's many homages to Mask in No More Heroes.)



IwAzArU

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"Master... we're in a tight spot."

A strange character decked out in BDSM gear for reasons better left unsaid. Always serves the Smiths, but seems to only have loyalty to Harman, and despises the rest. Mostly shares tutorial info.


Samantha Sitbon

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"The master is awake."

A maid who works for Harman, with serious issues. A proper, obedient maid by night, a sadistic street smart harlot by day. She only lets the player save the game when she's dressed as a maid.
(Not making this up.)


Travis

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"I'll be honest, man; that shit felt good."

Harman's first victim. Appears at random to share insight and philosophy.
(It's obvious where NMH pays homage to this guy.)



Suzie Summer

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A disembodied head that likes to talk about the weather and her horrific past as well as her (many) brutal encounters with death.


So whether or not you've played K7 before and want to help me pass the time until Travis Touchdown proceeds to take it all and kill you with it, or have never experienced this sadistic game before, come along, won't you?


Maybe it'll be fun.

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Then again, maybe not.


Oh yeah, and the music's awesome.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8Xi-CxR-a2o&feature=related

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cj iwakura on
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Posts

  • KupiKupi Registered User regular
    edited January 2010
    I've been meaning to find a used copy of this game for a while now. If it takes driving to a GameStop in the next county over, so be it.

    Kupi on
    My favorite musical instrument is the air-raid siren.
  • AmpixAmpix Registered User regular
    edited January 2010
    I will be playing along! I was finally able to get my hands on this game, after Amazon shipped me an empty case but that was the, apparently shitty, PS2 version anyway. Now I have the GC one, will be starting later tonight!

    Ampix on
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  • MongerMonger I got the ham stink. Dallas, TXRegistered User regular
    edited January 2010
    I bought a copy of this a while ago, but haven't gotten around to playing it yet. I'd really like to, but I also have Ico and God Hand in my backlog.

    Monger on
  • cj iwakuracj iwakura The Rhythm Regent Bears The Name FreedomRegistered User regular
    edited January 2010
    Killer7's pretty short. And mind blowingly insane.

    cj iwakura on
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  • DrakeDrake Edgelord Trash Below the ecliptic plane.Registered User regular
    edited January 2010
    Son of a Bitch!
    I should finish (or maybe restart) my NewGame+

    You're fucked!

    Drake on
  • JurgJurg In a TeacupRegistered User regular
    edited January 2010
    I've played the PS2 version. While I love the sense of style in this game, and don't even mind the often criticized gameplay, the boss design is just too frustrating.

    I'm stuck on Ulmeyda (sp?), and it sucks turning a corner only to be killed instantly.

    Jurg on
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  • cj iwakuracj iwakura The Rhythm Regent Bears The Name FreedomRegistered User regular
    edited January 2010
    Whoever thinks NG+ might be easier: it's the exact opposite. Yeesh. I still haven't cleared Chapter 1.

    cj iwakura on
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  • WotanAnubisWotanAnubis Registered User regular
    edited January 2010
    I figured Garcian was the 7's Second in Command.

    I mean, clearly Harman is in charge of the... organisation, but Garcian seems to point the way for the squad.

    Erhm...

    Sort of.

    Also, isn't Samantha's last name Sitbon?
    I mean, until Harman murders her that is.

    WotanAnubis on
  • cj iwakuracj iwakura The Rhythm Regent Bears The Name FreedomRegistered User regular
    edited January 2010
    Well, among the 7, I figure Dan would be a second.


    And the bios I read said Smith/Sitbon? Whichever.

    cj iwakura on
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  • agoajagoaj Top Tier One FearRegistered User regular
    edited January 2010
    Her name is shown as Samantha Sitbon after you beat the first level.

    agoaj on
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  • WotanAnubisWotanAnubis Registered User regular
    edited January 2010
    cj iwakura wrote: »
    And the bios I read said Smith/Sitbon? Whichever.
    I've heard that in the Japanese version she's indeed called Smith.

    But in the English version, when she introduced with that black-screen-zooming-in-on-the-eyes/face/head thing that the game does, she's called Samantha Sitbon.

    WotanAnubis on
  • CheesecakeRecipeCheesecakeRecipe "Should not be allowed to post in the Steam Thread" - Isorn Squalor Victoria, Squalor Victoria!Registered User regular
    edited January 2010
    I approve of this revisiting. I used to play through this game at least once a year, but I got too busy and didn't finish last year's run.

    I think the worst thing for PS2 players is the load time increase. What would be a 5-6 second load time for the Gamecube would easily be double if not pushing triple that on the PS2. I'm glad I was able to score the Gamecube version at launch.

    CheesecakeRecipe on
  • AmpixAmpix Registered User regular
    edited January 2010
    Well I just played some of this, it's definitely pretty weird. Dan died like 10 minutes in, and I haven't figured out how I might bring him back. I tried to play fancy by shooting the sparkly bits, but then they fell to the ground and didn't die! Its definitely some weird shit that's going on, also, my first Suda51 game :oops:

    Ampix on
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  • WillybubbaWillybubba Registered User regular
    edited January 2010
    cj iwakura wrote: »

    Ringtone'd.

    Willybubba on
  • WotanAnubisWotanAnubis Registered User regular
    edited January 2010
    Ampix wrote: »
    Well I just played some of this, it's definitely pretty weird. Dan died like 10 minutes in, and I haven't figured out how I might bring him back.
    Switch to Garcian at a TV room and get him to where Dan died. Garcian will collect Dan's remains and revive him.

    I tried to play fancy by shooting the sparkly bits, but then they fell to the ground and didn't die!
    If they just fell to the ground and didn't die, I'd assume the weak spot was on their leg and you blew the leg off instead of hitting the actual weak spot. I'm guessing.

    Remember to scan, though.

    WotanAnubis on
  • CheesecakeRecipeCheesecakeRecipe "Should not be allowed to post in the Steam Thread" - Isorn Squalor Victoria, Squalor Victoria!Registered User regular
    edited January 2010
    Ampix wrote: »
    Well I just played some of this, it's definitely pretty weird. Dan died like 10 minutes in, and I haven't figured out how I might bring him back. I tried to play fancy by shooting the sparkly bits, but then they fell to the ground and didn't die! Its definitely some weird shit that's going on, also, my first Suda51 game :oops:

    If you want to revive people (spoiler'd in case you wanted to figure it out for yourself)
    You have to play as Garcian and go to the place where they died. There will be a paper bag that you have to pick up, and then use your mario party button mashing skills to revive them.

    CheesecakeRecipe on
  • cj iwakuracj iwakura The Rhythm Regent Bears The Name FreedomRegistered User regular
    edited January 2010
    So I just noticed something creepy.

    Look at the date on the map in Chapter 1.
    January 20th, 2010.

    cj iwakura on
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  • WotanAnubisWotanAnubis Registered User regular
    edited January 2010
    cj iwakura wrote: »
    So I just noticed something creepy.

    Look at the date on the map in Chapter 1.
    January 20th, 2010.
    And... there have been fireworks recently...

    Oh dear.

    WotanAnubis on
  • SirUltimosSirUltimos Don't talk, Rusty. Just paint. Registered User regular
    edited January 2010
    I bought Killer 7 last year but have never played it. Dare I play along with you?

    SirUltimos on
  • RamiRami Registered User regular
    edited January 2010
    I love this game.

    As far as command goes...HEAVY SPOILERS
    It would be Garcian, since you know, he's the only one that is actually real.

    The return to the hotel is one of my favourite levels in any game.

    Rami on
  • slash000slash000 Registered User regular
    edited January 2010
    It's misleading to say that this game is "on rails." Because that makes it sound like it's somehow like a roller coaster that moves you through a specific path from A to B until it ends. Combined with a screenshot of the shooting sequence someone who hasn't played might think it's like a slower paced StarFox or something.

    It really isn't, of course. By "on rails" what people mean is that your character moves around the level area to any place or room that is accessible, but only along predetermined paths. You really are choosing where to go and when and what not, almost like a regular third person game, but you're stuck on specific paths. People criticized the game for this, complaining that you couldn't move anywhere in these rooms you go around in. But the question is, why? What more good would it do you to be able to meander around this room pointlessly if the game takes you directly to any pertinent spot you need to be. To waste time? Seriously, the "on rails" aspect of this game is a non-issue and really, the least of its problems should someone complain about it.

    Also, there's more to the gameplay than meandering around levels and switching to first person to blast psychotic pseudo zombie-esque monsters that explode if they get too close. The "action" of the levels involves shooting said monsters, but you have a variety of characters to do so with different abilities and weapons. Different level enemies often require a different tactic to defeat, or have a different weak spot; it's not just necessarily shooting them x many times until they drop dead; you are also rewarded for hitting certain critical areas. There are also boss fights that often involve figuring out some weakness or some minor puzzle to defeat them. But honestly the majority of the "gameplay" is going about the levels solving arbitrary puzzles, like you would in a Resident Evil game. Finding the "odd engraving" and then where to put it to open the next door and things like that. Most of the puzzles require you to figure out which member of the Killer7 team you need to transform into in order to solve the puzzle, as each member has a specific ability. So in one instance you might encounter a cracked wall, and you have to transform into Mask to blow it up with grenades. Another area you might see a gap in the roof and have no where else to go; switch to Coyote to use his super-jump ability to get onto the roof. Maybe there are laser-tripped security alarms in one room; switch to Kevin to turn invisible and sneak past them. And so on. Other puzzles throughout the game are not specific to a character, like finding the right artifact to place in the right slot, or choosing the right cards, lighting the right order of candles, closing the right set of blinds, finding and decoding the password to enter into the computer security system, etc.


    And so most of the gameplay centers around solving arbitrary, silly puzzles, picking the right Killer7 member for some puzzles, and stopping to shoot out some crazy enemies, then finding the boss and having a somewhat interesting boss battle.



    The best part of the game is the story and the style and the music and the insanity. The worst part of the game is the gameplay. Most people find the completely arbitrary tasks to proceed in each level to be totally boring. And the enemy encounters to be boring and often frustrating. And the on-rails aspect may not really interfere with the game, but perhaps psychologically it interferes with a certain feeling of not having freedom, even though freedom in games is relatively limited any other way too.


    Personally I found the gameplay to be pretty much garbage. But I found the presentation, style, story, and music and everything else about the game so unique and interesting and fresh that I slugged through it. I guess you could say I enjoyed everything not gameplay great enough to counteract the annoyance I found in the gameplay, and it was enough to play to the end.


    Man. If only the gameplay were worth a crap it would be such a great game along with everything else.

    slash000 on
  • cj iwakuracj iwakura The Rhythm Regent Bears The Name FreedomRegistered User regular
    edited January 2010
    I hope I'm not the only one who occasionally can make out what the ghosts are really saying through the distorted dialogue.

    cj iwakura on
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  • slash000slash000 Registered User regular
    edited January 2010
    Yeah I could generally tell what they were actually saying despite the distortion of their words.

    slash000 on
  • Kristmas KthulhuKristmas Kthulhu Currently Kultist Kthulhu Registered User regular
    edited January 2010
    cj iwakura wrote: »
    I hope I'm not the only one who occasionally can make out what the ghosts are really saying through the distorted dialogue.

    They change what the voices say slightly, but yeah, there are plenty of times when you can make it out.

    I really think spoilers should be marked a little better, but a very nice OP. I just bought the Gamecube version on ebay after finally finishing my PS2 copy a week or so ago. I saw a video of the GC version in action, and I had to have it.

    I honestly didn't think the visual differences would be that large, but yeah, it's quite noticeable.

    Kristmas Kthulhu on
  • Raiden333Raiden333 Registered User regular
    edited January 2010
    I really, really wanted to love this game, but I just couldn't get used to precise aiming with a joystick.

    I would buy a new Wii on the spot if they finally got around to porting this with wiimote aiming.

    Raiden333 on
  • VeganVegan Registered User regular
    edited January 2010
    Jurg wrote: »
    I've played the PS2 version. While I love the sense of style in this game, and don't even mind the often criticized gameplay, the boss design is just too frustrating.

    Are you kidding me? I found the bosses to be the most creative designs in the game. Very unorthodox. In no other game would a boss fight have two people standing face to face in a mock game show to see who can pump the most number of bullets into the other in a certain amount of time.

    Vegan on
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  • AmpixAmpix Registered User regular
    edited January 2010
    Played some more today, had to walk all the way back to get Dan back alive, but it's worth it because he's pretty good. I like Con the most though, just aim and keep shooting :D I'm not quite sure whether I like it though. The game suddenly got very adventure-y, which I'm not sure I like. The shooting parts get better now I'm starting to get the hang of it, though aiming with the joystick is still pretty annoying. As for story, this is some crazy shit D: I like the pigeon messages that explain the backstory of the Killer7 though. Also, how do I regain health?

    Ampix on
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  • WotanAnubisWotanAnubis Registered User regular
    edited January 2010
    Ampix wrote: »
    Also, how do I regain health?
    Use thin blood vials on the pause screen.

    WotanAnubis on
  • DrakeDrake Edgelord Trash Below the ecliptic plane.Registered User regular
    edited January 2010
    Raiden333 wrote: »
    I really, really wanted to love this game, but I just couldn't get used to precise aiming with a joystick.

    I would buy a new Wii on the spot if they finally got around to porting this with wiimote aiming.

    Once Suda51 figures out a way to make the gameplay uncomfortable in just the correct way on the wiimote, this game will be ported.

    Drake on
  • Linespider5Linespider5 ALL HAIL KING KILLMONGER Registered User regular
    edited January 2010
    Drake wrote: »
    Raiden333 wrote: »
    I really, really wanted to love this game, but I just couldn't get used to precise aiming with a joystick.

    I would buy a new Wii on the spot if they finally got around to porting this with wiimote aiming.

    Once Suda51 figures out a way to make the gameplay uncomfortable in just the correct way on the wiimote, this game will be ported.

    Did Suda buy the rights back from Capcom?

    I know Capcom can be a silly goose sometimes, but it's not like Killer7 is a prize to them. They even canned the action figures. :cry:

    Killer7 is not a short game. Killer7 took me 2 years to beat. Granted, I took breaks...

    Linespider5 on
  • cj iwakuracj iwakura The Rhythm Regent Bears The Name FreedomRegistered User regular
    edited January 2010
    Ampix wrote: »
    Played some more today, had to walk all the way back to get Dan back alive, but it's worth it because he's pretty good. I like Con the most though, just aim and keep shooting :D I'm not quite sure whether I like it though. The game suddenly got very adventure-y, which I'm not sure I like. The shooting parts get better now I'm starting to get the hang of it, though aiming with the joystick is still pretty annoying. As for story, this is some crazy shit D: I like the pigeon messages that explain the backstory of the Killer7 though. Also, how do I regain health?

    The pigeon messages get better.


    And I hit a roadblock on Chapter 2. NG+ is tough. Expect to die a lot.


    I love Mask's intro.

    cj iwakura on
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  • KuratosuKuratosu Registered User regular
    edited January 2010
    Woah, didn't know you were gonna start up the thread right away. I won't really be able to join the fun until next week, but I'll play vicariously through your posts until then.

    Kuratosu on
    Click spoiler for Backloggery, and gamer info:
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  • EliminationElimination Registered User regular
    edited January 2010
    i remember buying this game on GC and not being able to pass the first level and promptly never playing it again.

    Elimination on
    PSN: PA_Elimination 3DS: 4399-2012-1711 Steam: http://steamcommunity.com/id/TheElimination/
  • SorensonSorenson Registered User regular
    edited January 2010
    Gaaaaah, and I'm reminded that I've got a save like right before the end of the last chapter or thereabouts. That stupid
    cryptograph machine thinger in the library
    stopped me cold something like ten months ago, I gotta sit down one of these days and do the sodding thing once and for all.

    Other than that, stupidly good game once you get used to the controls and get some upgrades under your belt, the Ulmeyda and Handsome Men levels especially.

    And if we're talking music, well...

    Sorenson on
  • DodgeBlanDodgeBlan PSN: dodgeblanRegistered User regular
    edited January 2010
    YOU'RE FUCKED
    YOU'RE FUCKED
    YOU'RE FUCKED

    DodgeBlan on
    Read my blog about AMERICA and THE BAY AREA

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  • VeganVegan Registered User regular
    edited January 2010
    i remember buying this game on GC and not being able to pass the first level and promptly never playing it again.

    What?? This is one of the first games I played after a console gaming hiatus of like 10 years, and I managed.

    Vegan on
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  • MblackwellMblackwell Registered User regular
    edited January 2010
    The first level is pretty wonky though. Keep trying and beat it though, you won't regret it.

    Mblackwell on
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  • WotanAnubisWotanAnubis Registered User regular
    edited January 2010
    Hurts, doesn't it?

    WotanAnubis on
  • Milquetoast ThugMilquetoast Thug Registered User regular
    edited January 2010
    Rami wrote: »
    I love this game.

    As far as command goes...HEAVY SPOILERS
    It would be Garcian, since you know, he's the only one that is actually real.

    The return to the hotel is one of my favourite levels in any game.

    well... (TONS OF SPOILERS FO REAL)
    Here's the cliff's note's version: technically, when you shift shape, the player's ... "body" really does change - this is how the fukishima (owner of the restaurant in SUNSET) is able to see the killer 7 as Harman smith, and how Pearlharbor (the comic book artist) and blackburn are able to see the killer 7 as Dan, amoung other things.

    However, this is only because when all the members of the killer 7 died, they were "bound" somehow to Garcian, in both a literal and spiritual sense. Part of the point of the last bit of the game, in SMILE, is that a combination of information from Johnny Gagnon (the guy sending you info via pidgins) and Garcian not being able to revive the other personas (since there is no body to recover after the battle with the black smiles, among other things) AS well as garcian revisiting the location where he killed the smith syndicate leads to him remembering that he is NOT any of the other personas, causes them to be "released".

    Note that in all this, Harman is not one of these personas bound to garcian - he's more of an outside supernatural force who is trying to use Garcian and the personas to fight kun lan. This was the whole point of SMILE, from kun lan's point of view, to turn Garcian away from Harman's control - it's implied that Garcian was once under Kun Lan's control, just like he's currently under Harman's.

    one last note: you know how at the end of the game, Izru turns out to be Kun Lan? this represents Garcian's former allegiance to Kun Lan - it also explains why Izru HAD to be wearing a gimp suit and gagged - otherwise, Garcian might turn on Harman, and that would be bad. (also keep in mind the thematic consideration with making Izru ball-gagged; since Kun Lan's calling card to do is laugh, smile, etc....)

    Milquetoast Thug on
  • WotanAnubisWotanAnubis Registered User regular
    edited January 2010
    Speaking of which... (minor spoilers)
    Is it ever mentioned anywhere how Kaede managed to... I dunno... bind Mizaru to her so that she always shows up whenever Kaede slits her wrists?

    WotanAnubis on
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