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Computer Cooling - the dark ages ?

RoundBoyRoundBoy Registered User regular
edited January 2007 in Games and Technology
Are we still relegated to using turned bits of plastic to push air around, or are there new and viable technologies TODAY?

The tried and true case & cpu fan is still in the majority of computers today, but the noise level, and the general heat level coming out of the case is starting to get unbarable

Water cooling is a great option, but the high investment in time & money, and the potential for disaster seems to make it unreasonable as a choice. http://www.koolance.com/ cases are a great choice .. but the prices! the goggles, they do nothing.

Are there any up and coming cooling technologies that one should be looking into as they are building a new computer .. like the ionic cooling theory?

Help me avoid paying $600 for a quiet, cool machine case and also avoid 12 fans running at high speed.

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Librarians harbor a terrible secret. Find it.
RoundBoy on

Posts

  • FightTestFightTest Registered User regular
    edited January 2007
    If you're too cool for air and water, you can move on to dry ice and liquid nitrogen.

    edit to be more helpful.. http://www.xtremesystems.org/forums/. if you can't find the cooling method there, it hasn't been invented yet.

    FightTest on
    MOBA DOTA.
  • Hotlead JunkieHotlead Junkie Registered User regular
    edited January 2007
    I'm adding nothing whatsoever to this thread but enjoyed the mental image the title conjoured into my head, a knight pouring a stien of cold mead over his overheating, steam powered medieval computer box with it's many gears and cranks.

    I'll leave now.

    Hotlead Junkie on
    tf2_sig.png
  • robaalrobaal Registered User regular
    edited January 2007
    RoundBoy wrote:
    Are we still relegated to using turned bits of plastic to push air around, or are there new and viable technologies TODAY?

    The tried and true case & cpu fan is still in the majority of computers today, but the noise level, and the general heat level coming out of the case is starting to get unbarable

    Yeah, you seem to be ignorant of the present situation - good heatpipe coolers can get somewhat close to the efficiency of water cooling, at least for typical loads, and most of them use big fans (~120mm) so in effect aren't loud and shouldn't be any louder than a similar water-cooling setup, as 120mm fans are also usually used in those. Examples of such coolers would be the Scythe Ninja (or the newer Infinity), Thermaltake Big Typhoon, Zalman CNPS9700 or Thermalright Ultra 120.
    There are also heatpipe coolers for video cards and chipsets...

    You can actually mod an ionic air filter to move the air inside a computer case, TODAY.

    And watercooling doesn't magically reduce the heat so the "unbearable heat" will just come from the WC radiator.

    I think Asetek makes some not too-expensive but still very good WC kits.

    Also, Antec makes the P180 case, which was designed to reduce the noise coming out of the PC while maintaining good ventilation.

    robaal on
    "Love is a snowmobile racing across the tundra when suddenly it flips over, pinning you underneath.
    At night, the ice weasels come."

  • RoundBoyRoundBoy Registered User regular
    edited January 2007
    Excellent information..

    i wasn't aware heat pipe tech was coming along so well... especially since i remember it being around for a long while... I associated 'around for a long time' as stagnant tech.

    The purpose of this thread was my (incorrect?) notion that pc cooling was no more then the sum of how many fans you could direct through it...

    water cooling still seems to be a black art... and I have yet to see any other technologies...

    RoundBoy on
    sig_civwar.jpg
    Librarians harbor a terrible secret. Find it.
  • DanHibikiDanHibiki Registered User regular
    edited January 2007
    I'm more intrested in Thermoelectric coolers. No moving parts, no refrigerants, small and inexpencive.

    DanHibiki on
  • s3rial ones3rial one Registered User regular
    edited January 2007
    DanHibiki wrote:
    I'm more intrested in Thermoelectric coolers. No moving parts, no refrigerants, small and inexpencive.
    You mean those coolers that work like that Ionic Breeze air purifier?
    [spoiler:7063e19f13]They don't work well at all. As a cooling system or an air purifier.[/spoiler:7063e19f13]

    s3rial one on
  • robaalrobaal Registered User regular
    edited January 2007
    There's also, of course, phase-change cooling - which is basically a fridge strapped on to your case with the cooling thingie connecting to the CPU. Not that great, seeing that it doesn't cool anything else, but you can get sub-zero temperatures with it.

    WC is also sometimes paired with a peltier module - a solid-state heat pump, that can drop the temperature on one side below ambient at the cost of heating up the other side much more than the original load - but again - this isn't really needed in normal use and doesn't dissipate the heat.

    Zalman makes some cases that use heatpipes and the sides of the case to transfer and dissipate the heat, though I think they are intended for low-power systems and also cost a lot.

    Oh, and you can always drop the whole system into a tank of mineral oil, though supposedly it somehow drips out through all the cables and also makes insulation on most cables brittle.

    robaal on
    "Love is a snowmobile racing across the tundra when suddenly it flips over, pinning you underneath.
    At night, the ice weasels come."

  • DanHibikiDanHibiki Registered User regular
    edited January 2007
    s3rial one wrote:
    DanHibiki wrote:
    I'm more intrested in Thermoelectric coolers. No moving parts, no refrigerants, small and inexpencive.
    You mean those coolers that work like that Ionic Breeze air purifier?
    [spoiler:25c4a24532]They don't work well at all. As a cooling system or an air purifier.[/spoiler:25c4a24532]
    http://www.activecool.com/technotes/thermoelectric.html

    not really. There's no real air circulation, though most people do use aditional air circulation along with the TEC coolers for that extra bit of cooling.

    DanHibiki on
  • s3rial ones3rial one Registered User regular
    edited January 2007
    DanHibiki wrote:
    not really. There's no real air circulation, though most people do use aditional air circulation along with the TEC coolers for that extra bit of cooling.
    Never heard of peltier coolers being referred to as thermoelectric.

    There's some company touting ion/charged plate-driven coolers right now, which is what I was referring to. You might as well just pop open the case and blow on the CPU, for all the good they'll do you.

    s3rial one on
  • robaalrobaal Registered User regular
    edited January 2007
    DanHibiki wrote:
    s3rial one wrote:
    DanHibiki wrote:
    I'm more intrested in Thermoelectric coolers. No moving parts, no refrigerants, small and inexpencive.
    You mean those coolers that work like that Ionic Breeze air purifier?
    [spoiler:0259c10fff]They don't work well at all. As a cooling system or an air purifier.[/spoiler:0259c10fff]
    http://www.activecool.com/technotes/thermoelectric.html

    not really. There's no real air circulation, though most people do use aditional air circulation along with the TEC coolers for that extra bit of cooling.

    So you think peltiers just eat the heat or what?
    You still have to move it from the other side of it, in fact the hot side of a peltier will be hotter than what you initially wanted to cool.

    robaal on
    "Love is a snowmobile racing across the tundra when suddenly it flips over, pinning you underneath.
    At night, the ice weasels come."

  • SmudgeSmudge Registered User regular
    edited January 2007
    No technology will change the amount of heat being removed from the system. Your comment on unbearable heat coming out of a system is actually praising the effeciency of your current cooling system.

    The amount of heat coming out of your system only really has two factors: The amount of heat generated by your components, and the efficiency of your cooling system. The more effecient the cooling system the MORE heat will be pouring out of your system.

    All any cooling solution is is heat exchange. You are just moving the heat away from the parts that would fry if they got too hot. If you want less heat coming out of your system, the only solution is to get parts that generate less heat or are capable of operating at extreme temperatures. If the parts could operate at high enough temperatures then you could insulate the system to keep the heat in. Try that with modern systems and you will burn it up in no time.

    Actually, as I type this, there is one solution that I have seen that might work, but it is extremely messy. That was the guy who submersed his entire system in something like cooking oil. The key here is that the liquid can store much more heat than air can due to it's density. So the system has to generate FAR more heat in order to raise the temperature of the liquid to the point where the system would overheat.

    I don't think it is a terribly pleasant situation though. And in time the oil WOULD still get too hot so you would still have to setup a heat exchanger between the oil and the room air. Then you are right back to dumping heat into the room. It will just take longer to get to that point.

    Smudge on
  • FightTestFightTest Registered User regular
    edited January 2007
    Smudge wrote:
    No technology will change the amount of heat being removed from the system. Your comment on unbearable heat coming out of a system is actually praising the effeciency of your current cooling system.

    The amount of heat coming out of your system only really has two factors: The amount of heat generated by your components, and the efficiency of your cooling system. The more effecient the cooling system the MORE heat will be pouring out of your system.

    All any cooling solution is is heat exchange. You are just moving the heat away from the parts that would fry if they got too hot. If you want less heat coming out of your system, the only solution is to get parts that generate less heat or are capable of operating at extreme temperatures. If the parts could operate at high enough temperatures then you could insulate the system to keep the heat in. Try that with modern systems and you will burn it up in no time.

    Actually, as I type this, there is one solution that I have seen that might work, but it is extremely messy. That was the guy who submersed his entire system in something like cooking oil. The key here is that the liquid can store much more heat than air can due to it's density. So the system has to generate FAR more heat in order to raise the temperature of the liquid to the point where the system would overheat.

    I don't think it is a terribly pleasant situation though. And in time the oil WOULD still get too hot so you would still have to setup a heat exchanger between the oil and the room air. Then you are right back to dumping heat into the room. It will just take longer to get to that point.

    You neglect colder-than-air solutions. If you use dry ice or liquid nitrogen you won't be seeing hot air coming out of your system.

    FightTest on
    MOBA DOTA.
  • DiscoZombieDiscoZombie Registered User regular
    edited January 2007
    DiscoZombie on
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