I just found out that the bottle of Montreal steak seasoning I have, which looks to me like nothing more than a bottle of assorted dry spices all mixed together, contains the ingredient "natural flavor".
One thing that you have to remember is that we know or can recognize most natural toxins, at least at the regulatory level. When you start going synthetic, god only knows what half the stuff is or does.
One thing that you have to remember is that we know or can recognize most natural toxins, at least at the regulatory level. When you start going synthetic, god only knows what half the stuff is or does.
Do you have some evidence of this? I would expect synthetic food additives to be regulated and tested at least as heavily as those derived from agricultural products.
Actually it would be easier just to say everything is unnatural, since the universe isn't really supposed to exist. A universe could be something that occurs only once in an eternity, so the natural state of the universe is to not exist.
no
there could be an infinite number of universes, we don't and possibly can't know.
I don't rely on anyone to tell me what is healthy and good to eat. If the extent of my involvement in my health is choosing the right one-word labels on my packaged food then I'm doing it wrong.
To me, knowing where my food is coming from is more important than ensuring that it has the right labels on it. I don't mean "Hey my food comes from the doritos factory!"
I mean that I know who is growing or raising my food. When I get milk, I go up to the local farm and get it out of the bulk tank. I've known the farmer for years and we have an agreement. I fill my gallon jar and leave two bucks in the box by the door.
My family and extended family raises most of the meat I eat and every year we grow a big garden. We buy root vegetables from the local farm.
A few weeks ago we ran out of pork. So my wife called up the farm 15 miles south of us and asks if they have any left. Turns out they had 6 pounds of ground pork and some bacon leftover from the last pig they slaughtered and we drove down and picked it up.
Here's our sheep
her name is Piggy
is she natural? I don't know. But I do know that her lambs, due in a few weeks, are going to be eating only the grass on the back 40 and that I will know everything about my lamb chops - from their names to how they were processed and got into my freezer.
The problem with labels like 'natural' and 'organic' is that people see them as shortcuts for eating healthy. Leading a healthy lifestyle, and the closely related act of eating healthy is a lot of work.
Just look at the every-growing organic isle at the supermarket. Sure you can get organic doritos and organic oreos, but they are still full of processed sugar, unneeded carbohydrates and have little nutritional value.
Your lifestyle isn't environmentally sustainable for the human race.
Bullshit. Its perfectly sustainable. Just because not everyone lives near a friendly farm doesn't mean dude is killing the planet by not shopping at Coles.
Cat, I have seen your posts on these forums for a couple of years now. I have not always agreed with you, but you are clear concise and intelligent when you post... unlike the op here.
I wholeheartedly agree with you on this. The current "western" lifestyle is not sustainable for the human race. This guy's? Is the very definition of sustainable.
To the guy that said "city's aren't built like that" You're not looking hard enough.
I don't rely on anyone to tell me what is healthy and good to eat. If the extent of my involvement in my health is choosing the right one-word labels on my packaged food then I'm doing it wrong.
To me, knowing where my food is coming from is more important than ensuring that it has the right labels on it. I don't mean "Hey my food comes from the doritos factory!"
I mean that I know who is growing or raising my food. When I get milk, I go up to the local farm and get it out of the bulk tank. I've known the farmer for years and we have an agreement. I fill my gallon jar and leave two bucks in the box by the door.
My family and extended family raises most of the meat I eat and every year we grow a big garden. We buy root vegetables from the local farm.
A few weeks ago we ran out of pork. So my wife called up the farm 15 miles south of us and asks if they have any left. Turns out they had 6 pounds of ground pork and some bacon leftover from the last pig they slaughtered and we drove down and picked it up.
Here's our sheep
her name is Piggy
is she natural? I don't know. But I do know that her lambs, due in a few weeks, are going to be eating only the grass on the back 40 and that I will know everything about my lamb chops - from their names to how they were processed and got into my freezer.
The problem with labels like 'natural' and 'organic' is that people see them as shortcuts for eating healthy. Leading a healthy lifestyle, and the closely related act of eating healthy is a lot of work.
Just look at the every-growing organic isle at the supermarket. Sure you can get organic doritos and organic oreos, but they are still full of processed sugar, unneeded carbohydrates and have little nutritional value.
Your lifestyle isn't environmentally sustainable for the human race.
Bullshit. Its perfectly sustainable. Just because not everyone lives near a friendly farm doesn't mean dude is killing the planet by not shopping at Coles.
Cat, I have seen your posts on these forums for a couple of years now. I have not always agreed with you, but you are clear concise and intelligent when you post... unlike the op here.
I wholeheartedly agree with you on this. The current "western" lifestyle is not sustainable for the human race. This guy's? Is the very definition of sustainable.
To the guy that said "city's aren't built like that" You're not looking hard enough.
Yes, because each person driving from place to place to get his own shit doesn't use any gas at all.
One thing that you have to remember is that we know or can recognize most natural toxins, at least at the regulatory level. When you start going synthetic, god only knows what half the stuff is or does.
Do you have some evidence of this? I would expect synthetic food additives to be regulated and tested at least as heavily as those derived from agricultural products.
"All natural" is actually worse since under FDA regulations it doesn't have to be extensively tested if you can say its a traditional product or some such.
far less than hundreds of thousands of enormous trucks driving tons of mass produced food to thousands of chain restaraunts whose customers idle for 10 minutes at time waiting for their food and probably drive the same distance daily for their terrible food, which makes them unhealthy, driving up health care costs, and using huge amounts of fuel.
Is this entire thread really based on the inability to grasp that words, such as "natural", can have different meanings depending on context?
No. This thread is about how the word can be applied to anything and is thus a weak descriptor at best and meaningless at worst. I understand that it can have different meanings, but I'm pointing out that a very common usage of it actually has no meaning at all.
Ex.
"Steve is a natural athlete." Obviously this means he is innately athletic.
"She died of natural causes." She died from a normal health issue, I guess? As opposed to being hit by a truck or overdosing on cocaine.
"Contains all natural ingredients." The meaning here is not clear. I think I've explained why it is vague. A better advertisement would be "Contains certified organic ingredients." While the term organic has some ambiguity of its own, at least you know the ingredients were subject to some sort of rules concerning how they were grown/manufactured (so long as the rules were enforced, yada yada). It conveys something.
I'm not against the usage of the word completely, just the particular usages mentioned because they use an arbitrary definition.
far less than hundreds of thousands of enormous trucks driving tons of mass produced food to thousands of chain restaraunts whose customers idle for 10 minutes at time waiting for their food and probably drive the same distance daily for their terrible food, which makes them unhealthy, driving up health care costs, and using huge amounts of fuel.
you're right, much more sustainable.
Yes, drive-through is bad. Having "thousands of enormous trucks" carrying the food of 5 hundred thousand people in North America alone and having each person stop at one place a few blocks away for all his food is much better then having 5 hundred thousand people drive between several farms, each several miles away, on a regular basis.
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you're giving them too much credit.
Who is "them"?
no
there could be an infinite number of universes, we don't and possibly can't know.
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Cat, I have seen your posts on these forums for a couple of years now. I have not always agreed with you, but you are clear concise and intelligent when you post... unlike the op here.
I wholeheartedly agree with you on this. The current "western" lifestyle is not sustainable for the human race. This guy's? Is the very definition of sustainable.
To the guy that said "city's aren't built like that" You're not looking hard enough.
Yes, because each person driving from place to place to get his own shit doesn't use any gas at all.
"All natural" is actually worse since under FDA regulations it doesn't have to be extensively tested if you can say its a traditional product or some such.
you're right, much more sustainable.
No. This thread is about how the word can be applied to anything and is thus a weak descriptor at best and meaningless at worst. I understand that it can have different meanings, but I'm pointing out that a very common usage of it actually has no meaning at all.
Ex.
"Steve is a natural athlete." Obviously this means he is innately athletic.
"She died of natural causes." She died from a normal health issue, I guess? As opposed to being hit by a truck or overdosing on cocaine.
"Contains all natural ingredients." The meaning here is not clear. I think I've explained why it is vague. A better advertisement would be "Contains certified organic ingredients." While the term organic has some ambiguity of its own, at least you know the ingredients were subject to some sort of rules concerning how they were grown/manufactured (so long as the rules were enforced, yada yada). It conveys something.
I'm not against the usage of the word completely, just the particular usages mentioned because they use an arbitrary definition.
Yes, drive-through is bad. Having "thousands of enormous trucks" carrying the food of 5 hundred thousand people in North America alone and having each person stop at one place a few blocks away for all his food is much better then having 5 hundred thousand people drive between several farms, each several miles away, on a regular basis.