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Car accident - do I plead guilty?
DiscoZombie
Registered User regular
Registered User regular
So a couple weeks ago, morning after the biggest snowstorm Philly has ever seen, when the roads were really slick, I got into a car accident. There was a big pile of snow in the road, and I couldn't swerve around it because there was another car in the lane next to me, so I had to plow through it. My car was fishtailing a little but I was able to keep control - however, it made me not see a red light until I was very close to it. Of course, I braked and slid on the slushy mix through the red light into another car. It was even caught on tape by a camera at that intersection.
Now, it's obviously not the other driver's fault, but I've never been in an accident before or even gotten a ticket in 12 years of driving, and I consider myself a great driver. Should I try to contest this ticket, saying it was the weather's fault/act of god, or the city's fault for not salting/plowing better? Or should I suck it up and say I'm guilty? I really don't *feel* guilty. If it was just slush on the road, I would have seen the light in time and stopped early. If there was just the snow pile, I would have hit it and been thrown off for a second, but I would have been able to stop in time without sliding into the intersection. But both a big pile of snow in the road combined with an incredibly slick surface and I had no hope. It was a literal accident waiting to happen. I don't really care about a $100 fine for running a red light, it's how it will affect my insurance rate that I'm concerned about...
Now, it's obviously not the other driver's fault, but I've never been in an accident before or even gotten a ticket in 12 years of driving, and I consider myself a great driver. Should I try to contest this ticket, saying it was the weather's fault/act of god, or the city's fault for not salting/plowing better? Or should I suck it up and say I'm guilty? I really don't *feel* guilty. If it was just slush on the road, I would have seen the light in time and stopped early. If there was just the snow pile, I would have hit it and been thrown off for a second, but I would have been able to stop in time without sliding into the intersection. But both a big pile of snow in the road combined with an incredibly slick surface and I had no hope. It was a literal accident waiting to happen. I don't really care about a $100 fine for running a red light, it's how it will affect my insurance rate that I'm concerned about...
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Plowing into someone stopped at a red light doesnt give you much wiggle room - the law assumes that you must drive at a speed safe for the conditions. If the ticket just says that you didnt stop at a red light and doesnt mention the accident - you might get lucky - because then you can say that you went thru the red light due to snow and get a sympathetic judge.
Its one thing to miss a light - its an entirely different matter to miss the street light and another vehicle directly in front of you. Judges almost never let this slide.
in any event, going to traffic court sounds like your best option. i'm willing to bet the judges are hearing a lot of similar stories right now thanks to the recent snowstorm clusterfucks.
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I rear ended someone once and got a ticket for failure to maintain proper control or something like that ($100 and a couple points). It ended up getting dismissed because (at least in the jurisdiction I got the ticket in) if you have insurance and they are taking care of things the prosecutor is cool with just dismissing the charges altogether. If you own up and make it clear that you're handling your responsibilities as far as compensating the person you hit, they may be willing to either dismiss the charges or plead down to a non-moving violation.
If you try to plead innocent they will likely laugh at you. You were driving too fast for the conditions, ran a red light, and then hit someone. It's like the trifecta of shitty driving.
Not to insult your mad driving skills or anything, but that's pretty much the definition of going too fast for current conditions. If you're going so fast that you can't avoid hitting an obstacle in the middle of the road, you're driving too fast--even if you're going 25 mph.
it may seem safe while you're driving (i.e. you may not be sliding crazily all over the place) but you've now experienced exactly why you shouldn't do it; you can't stop fast if you need to!
you may be able to wrangle the offense down to something less costly for yourself, but imho you were pretty much at fault here
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My advice would be, next time, stick to first gear. Engine braking ftw.
CUZ THERE'S SOMETHING IN THE MIDDLE AND IT'S GIVING ME A RASH
To put this in context, what if there had been a pedestrian on the other side of the snow pile you plowed through? You are at fault. The mistake you made was thinking you were driving appropriately, but the end result clearly demonstrates that you were NOT under control as you state yourself that you were unable to stop once you noticed it. The simple solution would have been to drive slower so that if something like that happened, you would be able to stop. The icy conditions don't let you off the hook. Your defense is just as absurd as saying that you didn't realize you would need so much distance to stop on a dry, clear road because you were going too fast. As others have stated, the law states that you have to adjust to the conditions and drive in a way that is safe for the current conditions. You failed to do so. So drop the "I don't feel like this was my fault" attitude, accept that you screwed up, learn from this experience (hopefully resulting in you being more cautious in the future) and take your lumps.
You should not have run through the pile of snow. It's as simple as that. If you couldn't switch lanes you should have stopped. It's common sense not to plow through obstacles, specially if you can't see what's on the other end.
That's called being a bad driver. Specifically it's letting emotions override judgment - something that happens more often to young people. You are *supposed* to be in control of the metal/fiberglass box you're tooling along in.
That's why you shouldn't have plowed through it! You made a bad choice, then let emotions take over instead of maintaining control.
if you were driving at a safe speed for the conditions, you should have been able to stop, wait for a gap in the next lane, and go around it
also, avoiding a kid in the road is not even similar to plowing through a pile of snow because you were going too fast to avoid it
one is necessary, the other is just reckless
based on your attitude toward this, your track record before this is probably more down to luck than fantastic driving
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at the very least
you're a bad driver and in denial over it
In sum, you are either guilty of whatever citation the ticket was for, or in the alternative vehicular homicide of a magic snowman. Take your pick.
The real tragedy was today is his birthday.
OP - We're not trying to gang up because you made a mistake, everyone does, but it's because so far you've shown you don't realize it. Admitting it was a bad choice will make you think longer in the future when faced with a risky situation.
Also, human responses cannot be taken out of driving unless you're not a human. If something scary happens, you get scared and you have an adrenaline rush, which is sometimes good for your reactions and sometimes bad. I don't really see how trying to call me dense or a bad driver is help or advice. My question was whether I should bother fighting this. The general feeling I get on that subject from the few constructive responses in this thread is that I should try to argue it down but not plead not guilty, which makes sense. I guarantee I'll go another ten or twenty years before getting another ticket, but if you want to think I'm a bad driver based on one incident I ask advice about, that's your prerogative.
I'd be thankful it's not more serious than it is, in the future be more cautious of what's ahead of you and problems that can arise from inclement weather.
I wouldn't say you're a bad driver, but you're an inexperienced driver (or so far have gotten really lucky in bad weather).
"a safe distance behind someone" isn't determined by whether you can react if they gradually slow down, it's whether you have time to react if something happens suddenly (i.e. slam on the brakes to avoid running a red light)
saying that the whole thing is coincidence, that "it was going to happen to someone and it just happened to be you" is avoiding responsibility. Sure, if was bound to happen to someone who was driving inappropriately for the conditions. But it wouldn't have happened to someone who was going slower!
you shouldn't let the fact that everyone else is driving too fast and too close for the conditions have an effect on how safely you are driving.
If you are going slowly and someone starts honking at you, let them honk! at least you won't be the one who ends up plowing through snow and into a red light
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Not by the standards of physics.
In any case, IANAL, but in my state you are responsible for being in control of your vehicle at all times. I would look into that, because if that's the case in PA, lawyer or no, you're at the mercy of the judge.
Chances are if you plead anything other than guilty in a traffic court, you're going to be bitch slapped hard, so get a lawyer and shut yourself up in front of the judge, OP.
no contest means "i'm guilty, but i'm not saying i'm guilty"... same penalty, but puts you in a better light legally if you get sued by the other driver
Oh god, not enough lime for this.
Using the excuse that everyone else was going as fast is going to be about as useful as shrugging your shoulders and saying "Everybody else was doing it." in court. Nowhere in a drivers manual or laws does it say that you must go as fast as the person beside/in front of/behind. You drive within the means of the conditions, hence why a person is licensed to drive.
On another front to respond to an earlier statement the OP made. I would not be so distraught at hitting a child that I ran a stop sign. I'd be slamming on my fucking brakes and getting out of the car to attend to the child. By your mentality it would have been possible that not only you have been nailed for possible vehicular homicide but potentially witnesses would have assumed you were leaving the scene of a crime and were only stopped due to hitting another vehicle by running said stop sign.
If you are driving safely you should be able to react to any situation. If you take into account human error, well, that's just it: error. It doesn't have to happen. The fact that something happened is proof that you were not in control, at least not so much as you think you were. The bottom line is that you misjudged the safe speed for your vehicle. Again, stuff happens, it's not a huge deal, but you need to be conscious of it so that you can learn from it in the future.
You can't let yourself be peer pressured into driving faster or differently than you feel comfortable on the road, and that pressure can be very powerful sometimes. Just remember, use your own judgment, not theirs.
Ok so this is the part I don't understand. What you are saying is that you saw a car "a safe distance" ahead of you SWERVE around this snow pile so you could see it. Yet at that point you didn't think "Huh, wonder what he is swerving around, maybe I should pay attention."? Because that's all I'm getting out of that. You knew something was coming up a safe distance away right? You've already admitted you could of slowed down at that distance. I'm not sure why you are still arguing with the majority of this thread, the way you've talked about it puts you at fault. No question about it.
You are not a perfect driver, accidents happen. Acting like there is no way in hell you could of avoided the situation isn't going to make anything magically better, however, understanding that you aren't the safest driver in the world and working to improve that will. Nobody here is suggesting that the situation doesn't suck, because it does, but you're not helping by ignoring the logical advice here.
Really at this point hopefully it will be a lesson learned, but the advice you should follow is get a lawyer.