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Some questions about purchasing Windows 7

DrezDrez Registered User regular
So I have the RC installed right now (build 7100) and its going to start shutting down every two hours come Monday. I'd like to get a full (non-upgrade) version of Windows 7 (meaning I'd like to do a clean install without upgrading from a WinXP Pro or Vista partition). For that, I assume I need the non-upgrade version, right?

My questions/concerns:

1) Version. Basically I'm looking at Professional. Is there any good reason to go for Ultimate? Is BitLocker worth the 20 more dollars? How much would it be to upgrade to Ultimate from Professional, if I wanted to do that after the fact?

2) Price. Microsoft lists Professional full at $299.99 for either download or boxed. Amazon has the boxed version for thirty dollars less. Am I missing any better discounts anywhere, or anywhere I can buy it for download at a cheaper price than what Microsoft offers?

3) XP Mode/Virtualization. I admit I don't know much about this. Can anyone shed some light on what this is? From what I understand, I don't need XP for this. You can download the XP-related stuff for free from Microsoft.

4) My motherboard. I had heard that there were compatibility issues between XP Mode/Virtualization and EVGA motherboards. I have an EVGA motherboard. Is that still a problem?

5) Activations. How many activations, total, does a full-version get me? And what would cause me to need a new activation? I don't upgrade my PC *that* often but I might get a new motherboard/chip in the near future.

Thanks in advance.

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Posts

  • tsmvengytsmvengy Registered User regular
    edited February 2010
    If you already have a copy of XP or Vista get the upgrade version. You can still do a clean install.

    As to XP Mode, personally I think it is useless. You can't run 3D accelerated graphics with it, so if you're hoping to run old games on that you are SOL.

    http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16832116758&cm_re=windows_7-_-32-116-758-_-Product

    If you are a student you can get student discounts through microsoft or your college bookstore.

    tsmvengy on
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  • DrezDrez Registered User regular
    edited February 2010
    tsmvengy wrote: »
    If you already have a copy of XP or Vista get the upgrade version. You can still do a clean install.

    As to XP Mode, personally I think it is useless. You can't run 3D accelerated graphics with it, so if you're hoping to run old games on that you are SOL.

    http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16832116758&cm_re=windows_7-_-32-116-758-_-Product

    If you are a student you can get student discounts through microsoft or your college bookstore.

    Regarding the system-builder/OEM versions: What worries me is that you really only get one activation from it, from what I understand, don't you?

    I may upgrade my computer in the future. While the OEM version is cheaper, I don't want any hassle, or even to feel uncomfortable, asking for my activations to be replenished. From what I understand, you are really locked into one activation with the OEM installation.

    Also, if you buy the full retail (non-OEM) version, it comes with both 32-bit and 64-bit, right?

    Alsoer, I'm not a student.

    Alsoest, I have a 50 dollar credit for Amazon from Christmas. So if I can get it signifantly cheaper somewhere else I will get it somewhere else, but that's why I've been sniffing around Amazon as opposed to Newegg or other sites.

    Drez on
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  • ZellZell Registered User
    edited February 2010
    As to XP Mode, personally I think it is useless. You can't run 3D accelerated graphics with it, so if you're hoping to run old games on that you are SOL.
    Unless you're running 64 bit, in which case having a compatibility option for 16 bit games and installers suddenly becomes very important.

    Zell on
  • DrezDrez Registered User regular
    edited February 2010
    Zell wrote: »
    As to XP Mode, personally I think it is useless. You can't run 3D accelerated graphics with it, so if you're hoping to run old games on that you are SOL.
    Unless you're running 64 bit, in which case having a compatibility option for 16 bit games and installers suddenly becomes very important.

    Which I would be. I would be installing the 64-bit version here.

    edit: But I don't think "Compatibility Mode" is the same as "XP Mode." I'm pretty sure Home Premium still has Compatibility Modes, does it not?

    Drez on
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  • AzioAzio Registered User regular
    edited February 2010
    1) Version. Basically I'm looking at Professional. Is there any good reason to go for Ultimate? Is BitLocker worth the 20 more dollars? How much would it be to upgrade to Ultimate from Professional, if I wanted to do that after the fact?
    You don't need Bitlocker.
    3) XP Mode/Virtualization. I admit I don't know much about this. Can anyone shed some light on what this is? From what I understand, I don't need XP for this. You can download the XP-related stuff for free from Microsoft.
    Yeah the whole thing is a free download if you have 7 Pro. I use it for testing web apps on IE6. I think it's mainly for running old business software that doesn't work in Vista/7 -- although I have yet to encounter any.
    Drez wrote: »
    5) Activations. How many activations, total, does a full-version get me? And what would cause me to need a new activation? I don't upgrade my PC *that* often but I might get a new motherboard/chip in the near future.
    Activations are basically unlimited. Worst case, if you get a bunch of new gear, you might have to call a toll-free number and read some numbers to a machine which will then generate a new activation code.
    tsmvengy wrote: »
    As to XP Mode, personally I think it is useless. You can't run 3D accelerated graphics with it, so if you're hoping to run old games on that you are SOL.
    It doesn't run >10 year old computer games therefore it has no use whatsoever? o_O

    Azio on
  • ZellZell Registered User
    edited February 2010
    Drez wrote: »
    Zell wrote: »
    As to XP Mode, personally I think it is useless. You can't run 3D accelerated graphics with it, so if you're hoping to run old games on that you are SOL.
    Unless you're running 64 bit, in which case having a compatibility option for 16 bit games and installers suddenly becomes very important.

    Which I would be. I would be installing the 64-bit version here.

    edit: But I don't think "Compatibility Mode" is the same as "XP Mode." I'm pretty sure Home Premium still has Compatibility Modes, does it not?
    Compatibility mode is changing settings to make applications run in newer operating systems.
    XP mode is running applications under virtualization software which is what I was talking about.

    And yes, Home Premium has compatibility modes, I think all versions of Windows 7 has them.

    Zell on
  • DrezDrez Registered User regular
    edited February 2010
    Well, based on what you guys have said and what I've read elsewhere, I don't see any reason to even get Professional. So I'm probably going to go with the full retail version of Home Premium, which is $179.99 from Amazon right now and will only cost me $130 out of pocket (I have that $50 gift card). Plus if I ever *really* wanted the XP Virtualization, I could always upgrade.

    Thanks all for the help!

    Drez on
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  • mcdermottmcdermott Registered User regular
    edited February 2010
    Drez wrote: »
    Well, based on what you guys have said and what I've read elsewhere, I don't see any reason to even get Professional. So I'm probably going to go with the full retail version of Home Premium, which is $179.99 from Amazon right now and will only cost me $130 out of pocket (I have that $50 gift card). Plus if I ever *really* wanted the XP Virtualization, I could always upgrade.

    Thanks all for the help!

    Wait, why aren't you just buying the upgrade version again?

    That's $60 you could spend in much more fun ways.

    You can still do a clean install. It's actually pretty easy. I've heard some people claim they were just able to "do it," and otherwise there are some REALLY easy workarounds. It just looks for a Windows installation on any of your hard drives. It does not care if that installation is even on a bootable hard drive. Got more than one drive? Just install Windows XP on that secondary drive, and you're golden. You lose a little bit of space, but no biggie. Don't have a second drive? Just install XP on a small second partition.

    As long as you own a copy of any Windows since (IIRC) 95/98, you are wasting money by buying the full version.

    Fuck, for the $60 extra you're spending, you could buy an entire (sizeable) second hard drive to do that XP install to.

    mcdermott on
  • electricitylikesmeelectricitylikesme Registered User regular
    edited February 2010
    Incidentally if you're still running RC it's pretty easy to do an in-place upgrade over it with the full-version. Did it for two PCs no sweat. Probably still have the links around somewhere - the main thing I remember is in addition to the procedure on the web you want to disable the iSCSI service/remove any iSCSI drivers from device manager. That was the only hiccup I had - otherwise, all quite smooth - easy to recover if it goes bad.

    electricitylikesme on
  • stigweardstigweard Registered User regular
    edited February 2010
    http://www.microsoft.com/windows/windows-7/compare/default.aspx

    If you don't need the three checked, you don't need pro. The largest useful difference for a home user is that you have to download an app for 360 connectivity in pro, and you have to use virtual pc (free iirc) with an existing license on home premium if you want xp virtualization.


    edit: It's possible they have locked vp2k7 from running on Windows 7 - I've never tried.

    stigweard on
  • VariableVariable Mouth Congress Stroke Me Lady FameRegistered User regular
    edited February 2010
    eh, it's not a flat out waste of money to get the full version.

    Variable on
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  • ZellZell Registered User
    edited February 2010
    You really want professional for XP mode. If that doesn't convince you I don't know what will! :(

    Zell on
  • DrezDrez Registered User regular
    edited February 2010
    Thanks all for the continued advice.


    mcdermott wrote: »
    Drez wrote: »
    Well, based on what you guys have said and what I've read elsewhere, I don't see any reason to even get Professional. So I'm probably going to go with the full retail version of Home Premium, which is $179.99 from Amazon right now and will only cost me $130 out of pocket (I have that $50 gift card). Plus if I ever *really* wanted the XP Virtualization, I could always upgrade.

    Thanks all for the help!

    Wait, why aren't you just buying the upgrade version again?

    That's $60 you could spend in much more fun ways.

    You can still do a clean install. It's actually pretty easy. I've heard some people claim they were just able to "do it," and otherwise there are some REALLY easy workarounds. It just looks for a Windows installation on any of your hard drives. It does not care if that installation is even on a bootable hard drive. Got more than one drive? Just install Windows XP on that secondary drive, and you're golden. You lose a little bit of space, but no biggie. Don't have a second drive? Just install XP on a small second partition.

    As long as you own a copy of any Windows since (IIRC) 95/98, you are wasting money by buying the full version.

    Fuck, for the $60 extra you're spending, you could buy an entire (sizeable) second hard drive to do that XP install to.

    I see. Thanks for that information.


    Incidentally if you're still running RC it's pretty easy to do an in-place upgrade over it with the full-version. Did it for two PCs no sweat. Probably still have the links around somewhere - the main thing I remember is in addition to the procedure on the web you want to disable the iSCSI service/remove any iSCSI drivers from device manager. That was the only hiccup I had - otherwise, all quite smooth - easy to recover if it goes bad.

    If you could find those links, I would appreciate it. If I recall correctly, you have to change a line in some file and extract some other files to the installation directory? I actually did an upgrade from Win 7 beta (build 7000) to Win 7 RC1 (build 7100). I assume it's a similar trick?


    Zell wrote: »
    You really want professional for XP mode. If that doesn't convince you I don't know what will! :(

    Actually, Chip's Challenge is one of my all-time favorite PC games. :)

    Drez on
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  • DrezDrez Registered User regular
    edited February 2010
    stigweard wrote: »
    http://www.microsoft.com/windows/windows-7/compare/default.aspx

    If you don't need the three checked, you don't need pro. The largest useful difference for a home user is that you have to download an app for 360 connectivity in pro, and you have to use virtual pc (free iirc) with an existing license on home premium if you want xp virtualization.


    edit: It's possible they have locked vp2k7 from running on Windows 7 - I've never tried.

    Yeah I don't see myself needing it. Plus, I always have the option of upgrading to Professional. I don't have the option of downgrading FROM professional while getting 80 bucks back in the process. :P

    Drez on
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  • Mr. ButtonsMr. Buttons Registered User regular
    edited February 2010
    I've got a question about installing win7. I'm about to do the same as the OP (waiting to the last minute to replace the RC I've been running) and am curious about how easy it's going to be to set up on a RAID0. I'm running an ASUS M2N-e. I'm hoping that things are better than the old days of having to load the drivers on a floppy before I can get an install to happen, but I've been surprised before

    Mr. Buttons on
  • mcdermottmcdermott Registered User regular
    edited February 2010
    Variable wrote: »
    eh, it's not a flat out waste of money to get the full version.

    If you've got a valid copy of a previous version that's eligible for upgrade, it's pretty darn close.

    mcdermott on
  • FunkyWaltDoggFunkyWaltDogg Registered User regular
    edited March 2010
    Not that it should really be an issue for anyone, but only XP and Vista are eligible for the Windows 7 Upgrade.

    FunkyWaltDogg on
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  • DrezDrez Registered User regular
    edited March 2010
    Thanks for all the help. I decided to go with the full retail version of Home Premium. In the end, with overnight shipping (thanks to a renewed Amazon Prime trial), and minus my $50 gift card that I just couldn't decide what to spend on, it came to $150.30.

    I appreciate all the advice. I realized I could always upgrade to the Professional version later with little to no lost moolah. And I contemplated getting the upgrade but I had an XP upgrade and to be honest I just wanted a standalone, non-upgrade OS for a change.

    *shrug*

    My only other question is regarding my current setup. I am dual-booting WinXP SP3 and Win 7 RC right now, with two 500GB partitions on the same 1TB HDD. I would prefer to do a clean install of Win 7 RC on the Win 7 partition, but I don't want to touch the WinXP SP3 partition at all. Is this possible? I cannot recall how I installed this in the first place. I think I installed Win 7 RC first and then WinXP after but I really can't remember.

    Also: I'm guessing the answer is no, but I can't install this on my netbook as well, can I? Right now I also have Win 7 RC installed on a second HDD on my netbook. Assuming I cannot, is there a good way to clean that partition/HDD without effecting my main partition? Truth be told, I rarely use Win 7 on my netbook anyway. I mostly use it for browsing or playing older games, which WinXP does handily.

    Drez on
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  • TofystedethTofystedeth Registered User regular
    edited March 2010
    If you're considering dropping 299$ for Windows 7, might as well buy a Technet subscription. It's currently something like $260, and gives you the ability to download and install pretty much any windows OS (you want some Windows 2000?) and office software + some other neat perks. As long as you don't use the software in a production environment (the TechNet license is to allow the OS and software to be used for deployment testing, but MS reps have said they consider home use for non-business purposes to be "testing") it's fine. Pretty much the best deal in software.

    Tofystedeth on
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  • DrezDrez Registered User regular
    edited March 2010
    If you're considering dropping 299$ for Windows 7, might as well buy a Technet subscription. It's currently something like $260, and gives you the ability to download and install pretty much any windows OS (you want some Windows 2000?) and office software + some other neat perks. As long as you don't use the software in a production environment (the TechNet license is to allow the OS and software to be used for deployment testing, but MS reps have said they consider home use for non-business purposes to be "testing") it's fine. Pretty much the best deal in software.

    I thought that was MSDN, and cost a lot more.

    Drez on
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  • TofystedethTofystedeth Registered User regular
    edited March 2010
    MSDN does cost a lot more, but it's for software development, so you get stuff like Visual Studio and whatnot. Technet has OSes like all the various flavors of Vista and 7, plus server OSes, office suites and whatnot. So, more for administrator types.
    Basically:
    MSDN vs Technet benefits.

    Technet first time subscription is $349, but they currently have a code up on the page for 28% off, so it comes to $251 before tax. The subscription is only for 1 year, but any software and licenses you get in that year are good forever.

    Tofystedeth on
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  • DjeetDjeet Registered User regular
    edited March 2010
    It was always my interpretation of Microsoft EULAs that home use (unless specifically used to evaluate the software) was considered production use.

    Here are the license terms for Technet subscriptions, note:
    Evaluation Software. One user may install and use copies of the evaluation software listed in the COMPONENTS.TXT file, even if you obtained a server license. You may use the evaluation software only to evaluate it. You may not use it in a live operating, in a staging environment or with data that has not been sufficiently backed up. If the evaluation software comes with its own license agreement, this agreement will control. If that other license agreement gives you additional rights that do not conflict with express limitations in this agreement, you also have those rights.

    Actually there seems to be a typo in that version of the terms, as in the FAQ it says "live operating environment."

    This is a subscription. No where do I see the granting of a permanent license. I'm not sure what your recourse would be if you permitted your subscription to lapse and then an update/upgrade caused your software to kick back into the pre-activated state.

    I find it unlikely that theywould sell you Win 7 Ultimate and Office 2007/2010 Ultimate for $250. If you go this route read the terms carefully.

    Djeet on
  • Mr_RoseMr_Rose 83 Blue Ridge Protects the Holy Registered User regular
    edited March 2010
    OK, so here's a thing; anytime upgrades: How do they work?

    Can I get all my new features of Pro having had Home Premium set up for a while and not kill all my settings? How difficult is it to do?

    Mr_Rose on
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  • wonderpugwonderpug Registered User regular
    edited March 2010
    mcdermott wrote: »
    You can still do a clean install. It's actually pretty easy. I've heard some people claim they were just able to "do it," and otherwise there are some REALLY easy workarounds. It just looks for a Windows installation on any of your hard drives. It does not care if that installation is even on a bootable hard drive. Got more than one drive? Just install Windows XP on that secondary drive, and you're golden. You lose a little bit of space, but no biggie. Don't have a second drive? Just install XP on a small second partition.

    As long as you own a copy of any Windows since (IIRC) 95/98, you are wasting money by buying the full version.

    Fuck, for the $60 extra you're spending, you could buy an entire (sizeable) second hard drive to do that XP install to.

    It's even easier than that. You can just install Windows 7 using the upgrade media by choosing "Custom: Full Install" and choosing to activate later. After you install it, run the same upgrade disc again and choose upgrade this time, and this time your key will be accepted just fine.

    This double install method worked for Vista as well, and apparently it's officially supported so you don't have to worry about getting in trouble down the road (as long as you do own an earlier copy of Windows.)

    wonderpug on
  • TofystedethTofystedeth Registered User regular
    edited March 2010
    Djeet wrote: »
    It was always my interpretation of Microsoft EULAs that home use (unless specifically used to evaluate the software) was considered production use.

    Here are the license terms for Technet subscriptions, note:
    Evaluation Software. One user may install and use copies of the evaluation software listed in the COMPONENTS.TXT file, even if you obtained a server license. You may use the evaluation software only to evaluate it. You may not use it in a live operating, in a staging environment or with data that has not been sufficiently backed up. If the evaluation software comes with its own license agreement, this agreement will control. If that other license agreement gives you additional rights that do not conflict with express limitations in this agreement, you also have those rights.

    Actually there seems to be a typo in that version of the terms, as in the FAQ it says "live operating environment."

    This is a subscription. No where do I see the granting of a permanent license. I'm not sure what your recourse would be if you permitted your subscription to lapse and then an update/upgrade caused your software to kick back into the pre-activated state.

    I find it unlikely that theywould sell you Win 7 Ultimate and Office 2007/2010 Ultimate for $250. If you go this route read the terms carefully.
    It is a subscription, but when your subscription lapses, all you lose is the ability to download new software and licenses, and access to the free educational materials and probably your support incidents. Anything you currently have still works, and isn't timebombed in any way. And while home use may violate the letter of the license, I think most people view as being within the spirit of it. As long as you aren't spreading your technet ISOs and keys around or using it an any business capacity. There is a lot of testing and tinkering that gets done in homes too.

    I know I'm planning on grabbing one so I can bone up on my server and AD stuff.

    Tofystedeth on
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  • DrezDrez Registered User regular
    edited March 2010
    Thanks for the additional info. I will probably look into that in the future.

    So my copy should be coming today. Regarding my earlier question. Let's say I want to do a clean install of Win 7 by wiping that partition. Can I do that while leaving the WinXP partition alone? They are two partitions on the same HDD and I am dual booting.

    Drez on
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  • CabezoneCabezone Registered User regular
    edited March 2010
    Yes

    Cabezone on
  • TofystedethTofystedeth Registered User regular
    edited March 2010
    Yep, you just gotta be attentive when the setup thing asks where you want to install it to.
    Once you done that you can use this free tool from Microsoft to transfer your old profile to the new install.

    Though on second thought I don't know how well that works when the XP install is on a second partition. If you just do a 7 install over the XP, 7 will create a folder called Windows.old which has all the stuff from the previous, and this tool just creates hardlinks to your old files in your new profile, which is substantially faster than copying gigs of files.

    Tofystedeth on
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  • DrezDrez Registered User regular
    edited March 2010
    Yep, you just gotta be attentive when the setup thing asks where you want to install it to.
    Once you done that you can use this free tool from Microsoft to transfer your old profile to the new install.

    Though on second thought I don't know how well that works when the XP install is on a second partition. If you just do a 7 install over the XP, 7 will create a folder called Windows.old which has all the stuff from the previous, and this tool just creates hardlinks to your old files in your new profile, which is substantially faster than copying gigs of files.

    Thanks!

    Q: What's the benefit of that, besides data backup? To be honest I have most of my data on the WinXP partition. I have some stuff here in my documents, but most of the drive was used up with Steam-installed games.

    Drez on
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  • TofystedethTofystedeth Registered User regular
    edited March 2010
    The benefit of the Windows.old thing? I'm not sure, other than being able to grab all your old shit. I haven't looked into much, since I haven't yet gotten to switch over on my home computer, but I was looking at some migration videos they had and that USMT tool was pretty sweet. Since it doesn't actually create files, it just basically changes where it says it is, it is a lot faster. In the demo, the guy had about 25GB of stuff in his user profile that got moved from his windows.old profile into his new Win 7 one in about 2-3 minutes.

    Like I said, I don't know how well that'd play across a partition.

    Tofystedeth on
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  • DrezDrez Registered User regular
    edited March 2010
    Thanks. I generally do all that manually so it reminds me what I have, but I'll look into it. It basically just dumps all the files you own into a Windows.old directory? That's pretty interesting.

    Drez on
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  • TofystedethTofystedeth Registered User regular
    edited March 2010
    I can't find the much shorter video (they seem to have changed the layout today) I had at work (about 15 minutes) of doing just the USMT, but here's one (about an hour sorry) from technet that goes through an XP to 7 process. I think it's just a longer form of the other. Same guy I believe too.
    You have to have an MSN, or Hotmail or Live or what-have-you account to view I think.

    Tofystedeth on
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  • QuantuxQuantux Registered User regular
    edited March 2010
    If you have access to a .edu email account, you can probably do the "Ultimate Steal" thing (bottom of the page) and get win 7 pro for $65. I got in when they started it and got it for $30. It's an upgrade, but all it needs is to detect vista or xp installed on the drive when you boot from the disc. You can even wipe the drive during the setup and it will still honor the upgrade.

    Quantux on
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