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Speeding Ticket
muninn
Registered User regular
Registered User regular
I guess it was inevitable, and after driving for about 15 years, I have finally gotten my first speeding ticket.
Apparently I was going through a school zone, which had a 15 mph speed limit, while I was going 30. This translates to 3 points in PA.
Now, the ticket is 130 bucks or so, but what really concerns me is points and my insurance rates going up. Should I call up my insurance (GEICO) and ask them hoe much my rates might jump if I dont contest the ticket, or is that a bad idea? If I contest the ticket.. how do I go about it?
Apparently I was going through a school zone, which had a 15 mph speed limit, while I was going 30. This translates to 3 points in PA.
Now, the ticket is 130 bucks or so, but what really concerns me is points and my insurance rates going up. Should I call up my insurance (GEICO) and ask them hoe much my rates might jump if I dont contest the ticket, or is that a bad idea? If I contest the ticket.. how do I go about it?
muninn on
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Can you plead "No Contest" in PA?
For the love of god do not call them. They'll take your "if" and rip it out. So now you just told them your insurance went up 3 points.
Do it from work.
If this is your first ticket in 15 years, don't worry about the points. I doubt you'll all of a sudden somehow manage to have the worst driving year of your life, and usually a violation is removed from your record after however many odd years (3 where I'm at in AZ).
As for contesting, it doesn't hurt to go to court, since that is your right. The only thing you can hope for is the officer doesn't show up, but if he does, what will you say? For instance, I was once speeding through a school zone at 23mph. The posted limit was 25 mph and there wasn't a kid or car in sight, I mean, the street was literally deserted. However this was about 1 in the afternoon when school was in session, so I ended up getting ticketed and fined twice the amount (fine rules in AZ). So I contested in court and quickly lost even though I stated all of the above including the 25mph bit. The judge didn't reduce the fine either ($500+). The cop even apologized to me afterwards basically saying he had to do it even though it was kind of obvious that I wasn't trying to mow down any kids or be reckless.
So basically, contest if you're feeling lucky (that is your right as a citizen), but if the officer shows up, don't count on winning, at least the same outcome will happen as if you didn't contest.
Disclaimer: I'm not saying it was OK for me to speed in a school zone, I'm just saying I wasn't aware I was supposed to keep it under 15 even if no students were present. Obviously I'm way more careful about that now.
You'd be a fool to contest speeding in a school zone and probably make things worse.
The signs around here are on polls that crossing guards roll out before and after school when they're on duty. (It was a pretty small and quiet street.)
And muninn, online traffic school is significantly cheaper, so see if that is an option for your violation.
"Unlike many states, Pennsylvania does not allow you to elect to take a safe driving class and have points taken off your license, or have your ticket dismissed.
In some circumstances, a court may order you to attend such a class, and depending on the court ruling, your ticket may be waived or your fine may be reduced."
I am thinking that the cop needed to fill out his citation quota, so he turned on the sign with the sole purpose of catching people. Dug around and found this tidbit in the PA lawbooks:
"Establishment. A 15 miles per hour school zone speed limit may be established in a school zone during the normal hours that walking students are arriving at or leaving school, under 75 Pa.C.S. § 3365(b) (relating to special speed limitations)."
and:
"The duration of a 15 miles per hour school zone speed limit should be only long enough to include the time that walking students routinely arrive at or leave school."
Hopefully it will be enough to at least get the citation reduced.
Hell, call up the school and find out what time normal classes let out.
edit: Also 3rding(?) the don't call your insurance about anything advice.
buy warhams
I'm pretty sure they have to do that and it will look bad for the officer if he forgot, but I'm not sure if it's enough to get the ticket dismissed (like say, writing the wrong violation code). Get a picture with a timestamp of the sign not being on, and then in court, tell the judge he didn't write the time and then ask the cop what time it was. Hopefully he says the time is what you originally thought it was and then you can show the photo with the timestamp.
You may actually win this. If what you said about the sign being off is true, then you've done nothing wrong and shouldn't be ticketed. Btw, when does that school let out anyways?
If the cop forgot to write down the time of the incident isn't the onus on him to prove that you were speeding during the school speed hours? Hell even if I was and that was left off my ticket, I would contest it since thats a big mistake on his part.
600$ fine and up to 2 month suspension on my license...
Anyway, since I commute to college and work part time there was no way I could lose my license, so I went to court. BEST DECISION I COULD'VE MADE.
The cop showed up, but that wasn't a big deal, they knocked the fine down to 116$. That's it, no points, or anything. Apparently everyone who got a ticket and wants to go to court gets scheduled for the same day, so I was thinking it'd be me 1 on 1 with a judge and I'd have to plead my case - but there were some 30 people
there.
So, I'm suggesting you plead not guilty, mail in your 50$ fee and go to court. Like mentioned above, he may not even show, but if it's a slower district, he probably will. Chances are the courtroom will be so crowded that they'll want to get through everyone ASAP to be outta there on time. Worst case scenario, they make you pay the fine and you lose the points. Best case, the cop doesn't show up and it gets dropped. I'm willing to bet, though, that you'll get the fine bumped down and not have to lose any points just for showing up to court.
Also, with a 15 year record of good driving, being the first offense, you should be fine. Hope this helps.
If the sign is a "Speed limit is XX when flashing" he has every right to protest/fight it.
He may also want to find out if said sign is on a timer (I don't believe cops can just turn it on at will).
I don't know about it looking bad, but it may be a technicality that can be used to have the ticket thrown out. Officer claims ticket was issued during school hours, point to the ticket and ask what time was it again, because it isn't listed on here.
Like you said, maybe he was low on his quota and they just want the cash from you. A shame, really. But part of this world we live in.
No, it won't be word; it'll be your word against their records. The cop may have had a camera (which would have a clock), and even if he didn't, he would have radioed the dispatcher that he was stopping someone, and the record would show when that call came in.
Which could still work out to his advantage.
EDIT: Also just read up on that. Don't use the term reckless or careless driving in PA, AT ALL. Just mention that it's a first offense and that you're usually a very careful driver.
Do you have a PA license?
[ ] Yes [ ] No [ ] Maybe
You don't have to mention the increased fine part right off the bat, but some towns are hurting for cash. You should appeal to people's self-interest and greed if appealing to their 'sense of decency' or 'leniency' doesn't work.
For the most part, I think, most towns issue the majority of tickets just to generate revenue.
Hell, with an unclean driving record, I got no points for doing 90 in a 65 in New Jersey (on the highway, though).
Of course, the cop just gave me a "Failure to wear a seatbelt" charge.
Also, if you've watched this, you would know that they take the word of an officer much more highly than that of a citizen. It would be an uphill battle.
Don't pay the ticket especially if it's your first. Eventually, you'll get a court summons. Go to traffic court. Plead guilty with an explanation and the judge (who has heard every excuse possible) will appreciate the fact that you came to court and give you a Probation Before Judgment (PBJ) and possibly a deduction in the actual ticket. The key thing is the PBJ which is pretty much given to everyone who goes to traffic court (in my two experiences anyway) and that means no points. If this is your first speeding ticket the judge will be pretty sympathetic.
By paying the ticket it's an admission of guilt and will result in points on your license.
The policeman also mentioned that everything is being recorded, so I assume he had a timestamp on the recording.
The policeman mentioned that he could have given me a much higher fine and a suspension, but I have assumed it was a ploy to not have me dispute the ticket.
So my plan right now is to plead for lenience and see if I can get a higher fine for no points deal as Fubear stated, or just get it reduced by showing up in court like Sepulcher stated.
Speaking of which: Sepulcher could you give me more details about the whole court proceedings? What did you say/ what happened etc? It would put my mind a bit at ease.
Thanks everybody for your help. It is much appreciated.
But go to court and see what happens.
Yeah that was poorly worded, I meant in the context of the case and helping his defense. Now that I think about it, Sepulcher is right about the law getting around what we're coming up with here.
Does anyone know if he can somehow ask for the time of the violation before he has to go one way or another with his defense? If the cop says it's after 3:30, he should fight it, but if not, just try to get the fines and points reduced.
OP, when is the court date? I want to know when we'll find out the exciting conclusion. :P
I am directed to the courtroom, open the doors... and there before me are about 30 other individuals in the waiting area. After doing a little listening, turned out we were all there for traffic violations. There were people in suits, others in baggy sweats, men, women, professionals - all sorts of different types.
Turned out the district I was in (Secane) does all their hearings on the last day of the month. Convienently for them..
Now, if the officer that pulled you over shows up, he's going to call you (and anyone else he got in his speed trap) out and discuss what's going to happen. It'll probably go along the lines of, "if you plead guilty, we'll reduce your fine, and won't remove any points." The 50$ fee you mailed in earlier will go towards that fee.
For my situation, my officer DID NOT show up, so I thought I was off the hook. Nope. I was called up anyway and the Judge took a grand total of 15 seconds to tell me if I plead guilty it'll go down from 600$ to 116$ - no points, etc. I whipped out my checkbook, gave it to the treasurer, and that was it - like it never happened.
Like several others have stated.. it seems they are more interested in generating "revenue" than actually hunting down scoundrels like us. Your position is unique, obviously if you feel it was grossly unfair, being that it may have been after hours for the school zone, then you may be able to ask the Judge to just dump the charges altogether. But 9 times out of 10 - if it comes down to you or the officer.. the Judge is going with the officer. Really makes you wonder what all our law enforcement could get away with if they wanted. It's your call on the issue of whether you want to fight the whole charge - but you can at least take comfort in the simple fact that you actually appearing in court will probably be enough to get it dumped down. I think when that day arrives, you assess the situation and do what you think is best. Hope this helps, let me know if you have any more questions.
Oh and for the question regarding your being pulled over. On your citation there's a number as well as a phone number - should be able to call it and ask for details regarding your citation number. If it turns out it's 4:00 when those lights are off at 3:30 - it's fishy business.
I definitely think that your point about school hours might help you. While you'll likely want to avoid a trial, it can still be something to give you leverage when talking with the prosecutor, as in "do you really want to go through the whole dog-and-pony show of arguing about when walking students are frequenting a school?". Doubly so when you can cite that the zone isn't effective at 4.00pm.