[Hard On] Jagged Alliance 2 - Updated: JA3!
Tzen
Registered User regular
Registered User regular
Jagged Alliance 2:
Jagged Alliance 2
The beloved turn-based, squad-level, action/strategy RPG. You hire and lead a team of mercs with unique personalities to defeat the evil... dictatress(?) of the small country of Arulco.
Patch 1.07
Demo
Demo Update 1.0.0.6
Available for Linux? (this is NOT JA2 Gold! it is simply the original JA2 ported to Linux)
+
Jagged Alliance 2: Unfinished Business
The official expansion, UB is actually a stand-alone game that contains a new, more linear campaign involving a neighboring island. It introduces a few enhancements and tweaks, as well.
Patch 1.01
=
Jagged Alliance 2: Gold Pack
Now available through Steam (but beware, apparently it has "issues"), JA2 Gold contains both JA2 and UB, and it incorporates the UB tweaks into JA2. The Steam (and I think also the GameTap) release is missing the manual, but if you want it you can, uh, get in touch with, uh, someone... :winky:
Patch 1.12
also
Jagged Alliance 2: Wildfire
A mod that went retail.
Jagged Alliance 2 v1.13
THE mod, apparently. 800x600 and 1024x768 resolutions added, bugs fixed, new weapons, etc. (Here's how to install it with the Steam version of JA2)
Jagged Alliance (2) DS? Wikipedia says it was announced back in June of 2005. Gamespot recently implied that it was still on the way when it announced some other titles being ported to the DS. I'd be very surprised if this ever sees the light of day.
Jagged Alliance 3:
Well, I was going to try to write out about the various titles that have been announced that could be considered "JA3" in one way or another, but I'm lazy. All that's really important now is that Strategy First has handed the task to Russian publisher Akella, and it's being developed by F3 Games.
Multiplayer? Multiplayer! Though, Richard has sort of made himself the "Baghdad Bob" of the JA2 community thanks to his incessant defending of anything and everything JA3, so I question the accuracy of that vague and brief implication.
So what happened to Jagged Alliance 3D and/or African Alliance
Apparrently GFI turned it into a game called JAZZ 3D or some such. Here's a very shitty video of it.
Jagged Alliance 2
The beloved turn-based, squad-level, action/strategy RPG. You hire and lead a team of mercs with unique personalities to defeat the evil... dictatress(?) of the small country of Arulco.
Patch 1.07
Demo
Demo Update 1.0.0.6
Available for Linux? (this is NOT JA2 Gold! it is simply the original JA2 ported to Linux)
+
Jagged Alliance 2: Unfinished Business
The official expansion, UB is actually a stand-alone game that contains a new, more linear campaign involving a neighboring island. It introduces a few enhancements and tweaks, as well.
Patch 1.01
=
Jagged Alliance 2: Gold Pack
Now available through Steam (but beware, apparently it has "issues"), JA2 Gold contains both JA2 and UB, and it incorporates the UB tweaks into JA2. The Steam (and I think also the GameTap) release is missing the manual, but if you want it you can, uh, get in touch with, uh, someone... :winky:
Patch 1.12
also
Jagged Alliance 2: Wildfire
A mod that went retail.
Jagged Alliance 2 v1.13
THE mod, apparently. 800x600 and 1024x768 resolutions added, bugs fixed, new weapons, etc. (Here's how to install it with the Steam version of JA2)
Jagged Alliance (2) DS? Wikipedia says it was announced back in June of 2005. Gamespot recently implied that it was still on the way when it announced some other titles being ported to the DS. I'd be very surprised if this ever sees the light of day.
Jagged Alliance 3:
Well, I was going to try to write out about the various titles that have been announced that could be considered "JA3" in one way or another, but I'm lazy. All that's really important now is that Strategy First has handed the task to Russian publisher Akella, and it's being developed by F3 Games.
Russian print magazine Game World Navigator published an interview with F3 developers. The article is not online, but those who can read Russian can find scans here.
Key points, with some additional info from other sources:* Game is published by Akella and developed by F3 - a fairly new team, but composed of veterans from other developers (several from Nival). * The game is built on a modified Silent Storm engine with updated graphics, improved physics, FX, and damage model. * There will be no more militia training and sector defense, because players supposedly don't like micro-management. The focus will be shifted towards combat and away from economics. As for strategy, the focus will be on missions, rather than on conquering territory. * The player can command only one squad of up to 6 (maybe 8?) mercs. * Inventory handling will be simplified, particularly with respect to ammo. [In SS they used a backpack model with no item stacking.] * The player's avatar will be generated without the personality quiz. * Combat mechanics, RPG system, merc hiring, weapon repair, healing, etc. are all transplanted from JA2 with little or no change... * ...except for the turn system: instead of having alternating turns for different teams, the order will be determined by character initiative. This system is said to be more conductive for multiplayer [although, AFAIK, multiplayer is not planned for this game]. * There will be night and day, plus weather effects, which can be seen on the strategic map. * The team can move around the global world on foot or on wheels. However, on the tactical map vehicles are stationary. They can be used to store stuff, and some can shoot as well. * Key locations are designed, but "random encounters" will be randomized. [I am not sure just how much freedom of movement the player will have on the global map.] * There will be 40 mercs (12 of them new), plus 40 NPCs. * Plot: the president-for-life in a banana republic is fighting local insurgency, while a neighboring country opened a second front in a bid to annex some territory. Meanwhile, an international corporation is conducting some sinister experiments in the country. * You can play for one of 4 factions, each with its unique bonuses. In addition, there will be a 5th, non-playable faction - something having to do with a sci-fi subplot (which, as in JA2, can be turned on or off in the options). * Income will come mainly from your employer (whoever it may be). You can also sell stuff to merchants... if you can find them. * Merc relations will be modeled after JA2. Opposing factions will routinely hire mercs from AIM (remember Mike?...) * There will be 20 key objectives given by your employer, plus, as in JA2, optional side quests obtained from NPCs. Missions are non-linear: more like JA2 missions (e.g. taking control of SAMs or liberating Tixa) than like in Silent Storm. * Weapons will be reworked, with many JA2 weapons dropped and some new ones added - both well-known and experimental. Weapon specs will be adjusted to emphasize differences between different models. More different ammo types will be added. There will be more different armour, with heavier armour impeding movement. No more mortars. There will be anti-materiel rifles (12.7mm) and stationary heavy MGs. * Initial load-out will be more generous than in JA2. * No more cats. No bugs either. * No information on release date.
And a few screenshots:
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Note: close-ups were made just for demonstration. In the actual game camera movement is more limited (more than in Silent Storm).
The encounters are random but they are not.
The randomness is based on the fact that when close to a patrolled area, or an area where other non player controlled are located, the world size will be related into a chance of encountering that other unit.
There are instances where the encounter would be automatic and the perfect example would be when both sides are using the same road. In that case, the chance of encounter would be 100%. There is still the possibility that one of the two units desires to move stealthily and would therefore get off the road to avoid an encounter, thereby reducing the chances of an encounter.
Basically, the strategic AI will move units around and the concentration of units in an area will increase the chances of encounters.
In that sense it is random but then again it is not quite random neither.
No, there won’t be bugs but there will be other types of sci-fi related items. Of course, we are hoping that there won’t be software bugs either.
No, machine guns don’t destroy concrete walls and that should not happen neither.
JA3 will not use SS stats system.
We lose the militia in a sense because the militia is either hired by factions or that the forces that protect the areas are military units provided by factions. There may still be some training involved but the player will not manage how many militias/militaries/agents should be hired here or there.
@Lytinwheedle:
The non-specific maps were already part of the original team design for good reasons:
The world is way too big and prohibits using pre-made maps to cover it all.
The world size even prohibits keeping those maps stored.
A world definition under the hood will help generate maps that make sense relative to what they should have been in the area with far less complications and little predictability.
Also, the kinds of spawning you are talking about are irrelevant to map generation.
First off, they should not appear that way in JA3.
Encounters in the middle of a fight or while an area is occupied by a player will be dependant on their direction of approach for units entry into the area. Their initial placement will also depend on the area’s layout (from city sector to city sector, streets would have to be used generally speaking).
This is how it worked in JA2.
The importance of logistics is related to the strategic map more than they are related to particular tactical maps.
On the strategic map, you get all the actual choke points represented. These are the locations where you can force an encounter.
If it is a bridge, a mountain pass, whatever it may be, you get to set yourself up there (or the enemy does) and mount an ambush if that is what is desired. Blocking passage or using topography to one’s advantage is dealt at the strategic level first. Other generic areas in the middle of nowhere really need not be saved just for the sake of it. What you could do in JA2 you still can at that level, the terrain will often simply not be as predictable.
In relation to weapons, the weapon range may also affect short distance and indoor combat. Other aspects that will require weapon concealment and/or stealth will also impact the weapon of choice, which should be influenced on context and merc abilities.
I want a more versatile used of weapons in JA3, where sniping makes sense where it does and where a scope does not help shooting a fast running target within short distance but rather hinders.
Of course, I expect (I will surely do that myself) people to cherish their first long weapon they get.
As in JA2, you did not really conquer territory but occupied key locations.
As modeled with JA2’s militia training, not all areas would be occupied, it was simply not physically possible with the resources you had at your disposal. What was important was the control of key locations so that the key facilities (that included resources) and your overall loyalty rate would be better, generally allowing better revenues.
The net effect was the impression of gaining territory but it was never the case. Of course, the AI would generally go after the nearest and more important targets, although not always, giving the impression of a ‘front’.
In JA3, territory is also tied to main locations around which the interest gravitates, therefore moving the front around.
About the crouched walk, I have met over there a Russian military consultant that assures me that this is the way you would move around with heavy equipment if you wanted to remain prone.
The problem remains for moving around with lighter equipment, like a handgun or knife while not carrying that much equipment on your back.
You may be getting several crouch animations based on context.
@Bearpit
40 NPCs means 40 main characters with dialogue. There will of course be more characters in the game who will have more limited levels of interactions with other characters or the player.
The game colors must be taken in context. When you do some research, it is sometimes surprising what types of environments you can find.
Yes, your squad will be busy although you should be able to get some backup mercs to do some chores back at the base or camp. (Meaning that there may be more chars available than those numbers but they won’t be able to work in different areas simultaneously.
@Kropotkin
Simplified backpack was a design choice made by the original team.
Some of the reasons made sense and I chose to stick with it.
The backpack was not that complex anyway and the mercs will still be limited in what they can carry if only because of weight, which quickly became problematic for most mercs until they trained their strength like there was nothing else to do.
@Shadow21
Yes, there are item attachments.
@Shrike
The SS skill system does not belong to JA
@Sophocles
It is really no more mission driven than JA2 was. Actually, the heart of JA2 was totally based on missions, targets if you prefer, that when taken over stepped up certain factors such as level of the opposition (their number and level) and their carried weapon, which in turn allowed the player to upgrade.
Yes you could go into any territory you wanted at your own peril but it really was an ‘open’ mission structure.
In fact, this is no different but it does support a more complex structure because of the weighted interaction between so many competing factions.
So, besides the smaller number of teams and the difference with militia involvement, I say that this game is an upgrade in scope.
The interaction with the environment will be more complex and will involve more possibilities. It will also be less predictable.
The mercs' psychological profiles will be integrally kept intact and, time allowing, be expanded to reflect things specific to the new environment.
Things like the various weather conditions would be an example and how different mercs are affected by it.
The inventory interface is being streamlined to minimise the amount of mouse clicking.
Generally speaking, you still get to do what you did with the inventory but where redundant clicking was spotted, some new mechanics are used to shave them off.
Anyone remembers having to do so many manipulations to switch clip types that used the same ammo type but that contained different amounts? That kind of fiddling around should go away. That also should be a plus for multiplayer.
Multiplayer? Multiplayer! Though, Richard has sort of made himself the "Baghdad Bob" of the JA2 community thanks to his incessant defending of anything and everything JA3, so I question the accuracy of that vague and brief implication.
So what happened to Jagged Alliance 3D and/or African Alliance
Apparrently GFI turned it into a game called JAZZ 3D or some such. Here's a very shitty video of it.
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I should continue my single merc run. I'd taken Drassen and am trying to take Chitzena when I stopped playing. Shadow
The 1.3 fan patch is great if only for the resolution increases. If you want the game to be easier hire better mercs. I love it when I get to the point where I have three teams. Usually with a small stealth insertion group with Reaper and Shadow, and a sniper group that I chuck on a rooftop with Lynx and scope. Once you give Lynx a high powered rifle with a scope and a bipod he'll be popping heads from miles away.
As far as character creation goes, I always go for Night Ops first, then Stealth. Max out wisdom, it's the stat that makes your other stats increase faster. You don't need to max out marksmanship, it will go way up over the course of the game, assuming you use your main character a lot.
The basic strategy is to do all of your fighting at night, with one or two night ops guys up front sneaking around and spotting enemies, with a sniper or two picking off the enemies from long distance.
Always try to give your mercs two week contracts, and only buy their equipment in the beginning when you don't have any guns.
Don't forget to send Deidranna some nice flowers.
I had no idea there was a patch for resolution increases. That might just push me into taking it up again.
Is there some way to just select Night Ops and Stealth without modding? As for the rest of the advice, it all sounds really good and helpful. Thanks!
Hunting Bloodcats though. Fuck yes.
Wikipedia: "As of August 22nd, the Steam release contains gameplay bugs which render it unplayable. Avoid the Steam release until they have been fixed."
http://www.ja-galaxy-forum.com/forums/ultimatebb.php?ubb=get_topic;f=16;t=000453
..
I'd like to know these issues before I continue.
PSN ID : Xander51 Steam ID : Xander51
"You've got my ear!"
What do you mean?
Without doing the silly questionnaire and letting the game decide what my specialties would be based on my answers.
In vanilla, I don't know, but the 1.13 mod removes the questionnaire and lets you straight-up select your abilities. Even ones that weren't originally available, like rooftop sniping.
How do I not suck balls at this game?
Really? I liked the questionaire.
A certain lovable purple dinosaur should be;
(A) Held up as a lovable children's rolemodel.
(B) Hung from a tree.
(C) Hung from a tree and shot.
(D) Hung from a tree, shot and run over by a Buick.
D, of course.
Do you know why?
[spoiler:c07ae5e33a]Because you're a psychopath.[/spoiler:c07ae5e33a]
It's like Ultima IV. I always ended up with the gypsy saying "SORRY, YOU ARE TOO AMORAL TO PLAY THIS GAME" and then it would crash.
[spoiler:c07ae5e33a]Not really.[/spoiler:c07ae5e33a]
I found Night Ops MUCH less useful in JA2 Gold. The enemy is very judicious in lighting you up and taking you down. Personal preference was for a character good in stealth or automatic weapons (or both). I never bothered with melee stuff.
By the end, I prefer to have 1 select team of 6, plus the remaining oddballs going around training militias so I can concentrate on other things. Personally I found 2 teams was unnecessary for any maps I wanted to accomplish. Occasionally it might be advisable to split your group up to flank and otherwise distract the enemy so you can get into positions, but I never really needed 12 people for that.
Finally, grenades are your friends, use them well. Gas grenades tend to be less effective later in the game as the more elite soldiers wear gas masks, but well placed stun and conventional grenades are usually useful against clumped enemies.
I blow out the wall with the c4 and then lob (and launch) a couple of tear gas grenades into the blown wall. Killed a couple of guys and moved the team inside with gasmasks. At the same time the roof group snipes a bunch of guards and then moves in from the front. Then it was just sweep and clear, with a few grenades here and there.
I love doing really in-depth planned assaults in this game. Like conducting a SWAT style raid on Kingpin's Mansion, or reenacting Waco with the rednecks. So awesome.
Personally I'd have one or two snipers in my team. My merc and associates tended to infiltrate facilities, sneak around and get up and personal with bursted automatic weapons. Sniping is more useful in open areas, but if you need to get into facilities, accuracy is less important than getting that first hit in and making it count.
As for tanks, honestly I just walked around them. I tried blowing one up by sighting it with one of my team and then hitting it with mortars. That worked, but I didn't really see the point. The tanks are stuck in place, so I can't say I found it difficult to avoid them or blow them up.
Oh, and flowers = Poor, poor Eliot. :twisted:
Eliot, you IDIOT.
This is an appeal for someone to reccomend me a game that's a little more modern but has everything that was awesome about these games. I'd do a list but you already know.
SoogaGames Blog
Turn-Based Strategy/Tactical still exists and is going strong.
Unfortunately, Jagged Alliance 2 is the best of that genre...it is amazingly good...and nobody has come close to toppling it. It eclipses all else, even the very excellent Silent Storm (which I don't really consider Turn-Based. It's like a jury-rigged turn-based game...like Baldur's Gate and KOTOR).
X-Com is the second best representation of the genre, and no one has toppled that yet either.
I am excited for both UFO: Extraterrestrials and UFO: Afterlight, though.
There are a shitload of PC tactical games though. I can name off a bunch I own when I wake up, if you want. They are mostly war-based though. Jagged Alliance 2 and X-Com are good, I think, in large part because they broke away from the World War II genre that most PC tactical and war games seem to revolve around.
It's not perfect, but Silent Storm really is a fun game. You should give it a go if you haven't already.
I've never actually beaten JA2.
VVV Edit: I don't think so. Wikipedia says something about "gamebreaking bugs" in the Steam version, so I'd avoid that anyway.
There's pretty much no way to apply fan patches or even official patches (though unnecessary) to a Gametap or Steam download, is there?
http://www.ja-galaxy-forum.com/forums/ultimatebb.php?ubb=get_topic;f=20;t=000104
The somewhat sandbox-style worlds are the second. Sure, in JA2 you were led to certain places, especially at the start, but you always had the option to head off and explore. In X-Com things were probably more linear but it really didn't feel that way to me. In Apocalypse, despite it's flaws, I really loved the setting of an open, living City, even if it wasn't used to it's full extent.
I'll definitely look into Silent Storm, I think that one passed me by.
SoogaGames Blog
It's kinda like HOMM, but better, with a full-blown tactical battle system of the X-COM variety.
I can also guarantee that no-one beside myself has played or owned Abomination: The Nemesis Project.
Am I the only one that played a game called Incubation? I believe it was by Blue Byte and had the tagline "it's Turn-Based, it's Tactical, it's Terrifying!"
Despite it's flaws I did rather enjoy it. It really was pretty tactical as the aliens would tear you to bits if they got to grips with you, was sort of similar to Space Hulk in the sense of Marines vs Claw-tastic Aliens. Of course as you went on there were aliens that were completely invulnrable to attacks from the front and you got flamethrowers and jetpacks, shooting the cool factor through the roof. Strangely I don't remember much of the campaign. Maybe it sucked but it's more likely I got stuck incredibly early on and gave up.
SoogaGames Blog
Abomination was fun as hell aswell, the only bad things about it that I can remember is that research was randomized and that the missions could have some quite strange level layouts sometimes.
Heh, every time she says that I'm convinced she is saying Golda Mier.
(Please do not gift. My game bank is already full.)
I do find that the game kind of drags on past a certain point though, usually when the only cities left are Grumm and Medina. I think it's because Grumm has a lot more city/building fighting and the interrupt system can be very unpredictable, not something I enjoy in a strategy game.
I love how you hand pick a squad in the JA games, but I still thing X-Com wins for me because of atmosphere and more variety in enemies. Again, for me it seems to come down to the game seeming to drag after a certain point.
So, was anyone else a cold bastard that used civilians you found in farms and stuff outside of cities as target practice for skill increases since they didn't lower loyalty when killed? :twisted:
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3DS: 3454-0268-5595 Battle.net: SteelAngel#1772
Are you teasing me? You better not be. :twisted:
(Please do not gift. My game bank is already full.)