I wonder how playing an Imperial Guardsman will balance out against marines and the like. May as a Guard player gets higher levels, they will have npc troops they can command.
I don't see that as a huge deal. Make the IG the elitest of elite of the Shock Troops and have their focus be more on long-range combat, while your SM's are more short-range assault troops. Give them the ability to call in air strikes and artillery barrages, make them a pet class, give them sniper weapons etc.
Sure, the average IG trooper can't stand up to a SM. But, player characters aren't your average of any class.
Modern Man on
Aetian Jupiter - 41 Gunslinger - The Old Republic
Rigorous Scholarship
I think Games-workshop has the final say when it comes to things like bending the lore in a way that somehow fits in a female version of Space Marine that isn't a Sister of Battle.
I'm pretty sure they'll say 'No'.
I'm pretty sure we don't know what they'll say.
look at dwarfs in Warhammer Online... their mount was a freakin helicopter! If you know anything about dwarf lore, you know thats a not a bending of lore, thats a reshaping of lore as dwarfs as a whole are very very very very very very very very anti-technology.
?
Anyway, I expect female space marines are incredibly unlikely.
I'm more interested how the game might handle playing a Space Marine in comparison to anything else in the game. With the exception of some Orks, a Space Marine isn't exactly balanced with well, anything else, one on one. Not that I'm unprepared to suspend my disbelief, but I'm still intrigued by how it might be handled.
I think Games-workshop has the final say when it comes to things like bending the lore in a way that somehow fits in a female version of Space Marine that isn't a Sister of Battle.
I'm pretty sure they'll say 'No'.
I'm pretty sure we don't know what they'll say.
look at dwarfs in Warhammer Online... their mount was a freakin helicopter! If you know anything about dwarf lore, you know thats a not a bending of lore, thats a reshaping of lore as dwarfs as a whole are very very very very very very very very anti-technology.
?
Anyway, I expect female space marines are incredibly unlikely.
I'm more interested how the game might handle playing a Space Marine in comparison to anything else in the game. With the exception of some Orks, a Space Marine isn't exactly balanced with well, anything else, one on one. Not that I'm unprepared to suspend my disbelief, but I'm still intrigued by how it might be handled.
Yea Wishpig, you are about as wrong as you can get really on that one.
"The dwarfs are by far Warhammer's most technologically advanced race, and are regarded as consummate engineers. Where other races use wooden ships to travel overseas, the dwarfs use ironclad dreadnoughts and nautilus, the Warhammer equivalent of early battleships and submarines. They have also pioneered the development of black powder and steam technology such as cannons, handguns and Gyrocopters (helicopters). They have shared some of this technology with Humans, but still consider the work of the 'Manlings' to be shoddy in comparison to good dwarven work.
The most innovative examples of Dwarven engineering are the Organ Gun (a cannon with multiple light-calibre barrels and a high rate of fire), the Flame Cannon (a massive flamethrower artillery piece with the capacity to destroy entire units), and the Ungrim Ankor, a vast hub of mining tunnels connected to all the Dwarf Strongholds in the Old World.
Dwarfs are a naturally conservative race, however, and most treat technological innovation with suspicion and distrust. Most of their technology is of a highly traditional nature, and their engineering guilds dissuade members from coming up with anything novel or innovative. As such human, Skaven and Chaos Dwarf engineers often produce more unusual, impressive and powerful, albeit less reliable, technologies, such as the Imperial Steam Tank or the Skaven Ratling Gun. A comparison may be found between the Dwarf Organ Gun and the Imperial Hellblaster Volley gun; both artillery pieces are based on the same concept,a ribauld, however while the Dwarf Organ gun can cause a maximum of 10 casualties a game turn and the Hellblaster may cause 30, it is far more likely that the organ gun will be able to cause eight or ten casualties a turn and it is far less likely that the organ will explode."
- From Wikipedia cause I don't have any GW books handy. So you are correct when you say some dwarves don't like new fangled war machines, but very incorrect saying they are anti-tech.
I think Games-workshop has the final say when it comes to things like bending the lore in a way that somehow fits in a female version of Space Marine that isn't a Sister of Battle.
I'm pretty sure they'll say 'No'.
I'm pretty sure we don't know what they'll say.
look at dwarfs in Warhammer Online... their mount was a freakin helicopter! If you know anything about dwarf lore, you know thats a not a bending of lore, thats a reshaping of lore as dwarfs as a whole are very very very very very very very very anti-technology.
?
Anyway, I expect female space marines are incredibly unlikely.
I'm more interested how the game might handle playing a Space Marine in comparison to anything else in the game. With the exception of some Orks, a Space Marine isn't exactly balanced with well, anything else, one on one. Not that I'm unprepared to suspend my disbelief, but I'm still intrigued by how it might be handled.
Guess you don't know warhammer dwarf lore if ya posted that...
See that dwarf in the copter? His family probably disowned him and his hold most likley kicked him out. Dwarfs don't even trust cannons, despite having used them for hundreds of years.
Although I see your point. Despite the fact their incredibly rare and despised by their own kin, there are a few dwarfs who dare to fly gyrocopters. I suppose the same can't be said about female space marines.
Still, the uproar against female space marines prob wouldn't compare to the insane nerd-rage that was inspired by the dwarfs' mounts. Dwarf fans were PPPIIISSSEEEDDDDDDDD
Wishpig on
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Yea Wishpig, you are about as wrong as you can get really on that one.
"The dwarfs are by far Warhammer's most technologically advanced race, and are regarded as consummate engineers. Where other races use wooden ships to travel overseas, the dwarfs use ironclad dreadnoughts and nautilus, the Warhammer equivalent of early battleships and submarines. They have also pioneered the development of black powder and steam technology such as cannons, handguns and Gyrocopters (helicopters). They have shared some of this technology with Humans, but still consider the work of the 'Manlings' to be shoddy in comparison to good dwarven work.
The most innovative examples of Dwarven engineering are the Organ Gun (a cannon with multiple light-calibre barrels and a high rate of fire), the Flame Cannon (a massive flamethrower artillery piece with the capacity to destroy entire units), and the Ungrim Ankor, a vast hub of mining tunnels connected to all the Dwarf Strongholds in the Old World.
Dwarfs are a naturally conservative race, however, and most treat technological innovation with suspicion and distrust. Most of their technology is of a highly traditional nature, and their engineering guilds dissuade members from coming up with anything novel or innovative. As such human, Skaven and Chaos Dwarf engineers often produce more unusual, impressive and powerful, albeit less reliable, technologies, such as the Imperial Steam Tank or the Skaven Ratling Gun. A comparison may be found between the Dwarf Organ Gun and the Imperial Hellblaster Volley gun; both artillery pieces are based on the same concept,a ribauld, however while the Dwarf Organ gun can cause a maximum of 10 casualties a game turn and the Hellblaster may cause 30, it is far more likely that the organ gun will be able to cause eight or ten casualties a turn and it is far less likely that the organ will explode."
- From Wikipedia cause I don't have any GW books handy. So you are correct when you say some dwarves don't like new fangled war machines, but very incorrect saying they are anti-tech.
Wow... I can't believe this. If we were on a warhammer fansite, you would be ripped apart for saying this. Trust me, I'm a big BIG warhammer dwarf fan. I've got the army books, got all the fantasy novels. Trust me when I say I know what I'm talkin about here.
EDIT-Shit, sorry, meant to combine the two posts.
Don't beleave me? Visit a thread full of angry hardcore dwarf fans, raging over the Gryocopter. It's an old thread... haven't visited the site in a while, but I may be part of the argument. You'll see me defending the gryocopter (I'm cool with breaking lore for gameplay sake.) I get ripped apart.
Wishpig on
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"Dwarfs are supremely skilled craftsmen and take great pride in everything they do. It is almost impossible for a Dwarf to hurry his work, and no Dwarf could ever bring himself to produce something slipshod or cheap. Whether it be forging weapons and armor, the construction of fortifications, or the mechanical inventions of the famed Engineers Guild, the ingenuity and technical ability of Dwarfs is unsurpassed anywhere in the Old World. No other race, not even the great craftsmen of the High Elves, can rival the care and skill of the Dwarfs."
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0
DunxcoShould get a suitNever skips breakfastRegistered Userregular
edited March 2010
Meanwhile, in the 41st millenium, most Dwarves (sorry, Squats) got all eaten up by the big bad Tyranids.
Too bad, life goes on, now where'd I put my heavy bolter...
"Dwarfs are supremely skilled craftsmen and take great pride in everything they do. It is almost impossible for a Dwarf to hurry his work, and no Dwarf could ever bring himself to produce something slipshod or cheap. Whether it be forging weapons and armor, the construction of fortifications, or the mechanical inventions of the famed Engineers Guild, the ingenuity and technical ability of Dwarfs is unsurpassed anywhere in the Old World. No other race, not even the great craftsmen of the High Elves, can rival the care and skill of the Dwarfs."
Sigh... warhammer is known for it's incredibly deep and rich lore, as you know. And yet, you base your argument off of wikipedia and a snippet from the website.
Trust a major dwarf fan on this. One thats read all the lore games-workshop has put out on them.
This isn't the thread to debate this on. But I gotta defend myself on this one. Dwarf culture is damning themselves. Their going extinct for a reason. Their the best damn engineers in the world, but the engineers and technology that could save dwarfs, are shunned and ridiculed by the vast majority. Dwarfs are just beyond traditionalists. To the point of being inhumanly so. Guns and cannons, which dwarfs have used for a long long long time, are highly distrusted by all but engineers. And many engineers don't even trust them. I remember one of the more recent books had a dwarf with a repeating crossbow, and his peers mocked him for it.
On one hand, their technology looks freakin awesome. So games-workshop takes advantage of it, and you see allot of cool mini's based off it. But LOREwise such technology as the gyrocopter would be very very rare. Handguns and cannons, after being used for centuraies, still competeing with crossbows and catapults.
Sad thing is, if they embraced the technology, they wouldn't be a dying race.
It's wierd and a bit contradictory. But thats dwarfs for you. Stupidly stubborn.
It isn't that there aren't dwarfs who would fly it. It's just you would never ever see a runepriest or an ironbreaker on one. Ever.
I'll stop debaiting this now... like I said, wrong place to debate it. But after a year of argueing with dwarf fanboys to calm down, and let relic bend the lore to allow for gyrocopters... I just can't let this argument drop so easily. Real dorky I know.
Wishpig on
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They're the best engineers in the world, but they don't innovate. Their engineering is tradition. The helicopter was an accepted part of their engineering lore (before GW retconned it out of WHFB, IIRC) but the nerdrage on the gyrocopter backpack is that it was *new*. Mythic tried to shoehorn it into the lore, saying the war was so desperate that all sides were breaking longstanding taboos to achieve victory (see: sorcerer, male, prohibition against,) but it just came out like a weak and blatant retcon.
They're the best engineers in the world, but they don't innovate. Their engineering is tradition. The helicopter was an accepted part of their engineering lore (before GW retconned it out of WHFB, IIRC) but the nerdrage on the gyrocopter backpack is that it was *new*. Mythic tried to shoehorn it into the lore, saying the war was so desperate that all sides were breaking longstanding taboos to achieve victory (see: sorcerer, male, prohibition against,) but it just came out like a weak and blatant retcon.
Bingo.
But technically female space marines are even more of a lore stretch, as they just don't exist at all.
BUT like the gyrocopter in warhammer online (which I did like), I think it's ok to put gameplay before lore in this case.
Wishpig on
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The sisters are one of the coolest factions in 40K. It's not like they run around in plate thongs and twirl their hair. Rather, they run around in power armor with flamethrowers and burn people to ashes
They also look great
I'm burnt out on MMOs at this point, what with the experience with WAR and all, but if this WH40K MMO has the Sisters or lets you play as an Inquisitor, I'll be at least sold enough to give the trial a spin.
But I'm not going to hold my breath hoping for that.
I'm burnt out on MMOs at this point, what with the experience with WAR and all, but if this WH40K MMO has the Sisters or lets you play as an Inquisitor, I'll be at least sold enough to give the trial a spin.
But I'm not going to hold my breath hoping for that.
I have a simple expectation for this game.
If this is me after just a couple hours in the game... then I am sold.
A couple of hours? Man you have to reach level 90 and then grind up 3 reps before you even get ACCESS to the terminator honours questline. Which requires items from several raid bosses (all with low droprates) and even when you have it you still have to finish the armour questline given by the chapter techmarine and grind out the ridiculous mats required to make it.
GW was pretty rigid with their genders for WAR's classes, so there will not be any female marines. I mean, that's why they have the Sisters in the first place.
Welllllll, they did introduce male druchii sorcerers, which they thought was okay. Afaik, male dark elf sorcerers are a big no-no in Warhammer lore.
They also almost had male witch elves in WAR, but deemed them too ridiculous. You can still find them as NPC's in places in WAR as well, using the same animations as the female Witch Elves. They also had female dwarves on the frontlines which I think is also not according to lore
Really, WAR didn't follow a lot of lore and I doubt WH40KMMO is going to be able to follow it all either
GW was pretty rigid with their genders for WAR's classes, so there will not be any female marines. I mean, that's why they have the Sisters in the first place.
I wouldn't say that. They were inconsistently rigid.
For example, dwarf females DON'T fight. Not because they can't fight, but because the female to male ratio is like 3 to 1. So dwarf babes stay indoors and under-guard. Argue about gyrocopters all you want, but Dwarf females are rare and stay in their holds.
Now I'm not on par with Elf and Empire lore, but I think there aren't any female white lions or female warriors of sigmar. But there were in WAR.
On the other hand, despite having female dwarfs a ready option for three of the dwarf classes... you couldn't be a female slayer? You can KIND of explain that I guess, but even weirder was two of the four chaos classes didn't allow you to be female. Which was really weird cause that wouldn't have bent the lore to severly, as opposed to dwarf females.
And then there's sorcerers. Male dark elves are NOT allowed to be sorcerers (sketchy on elf lore, but I'm pretty sure thats the case.) Yet they could be. (just noticed guy above me confirmed this. Yes, this was a big no no.)
It was all very wierd.
I can just as easily see them allowing female space marines as readily as not.
Much more so then warhammer fantasy, warhammer 40k seems to be very predominantly male. Eldar and Sisters of battle are the two sole exceptions I can think of. Eldar will most certainly be in the mmo... but the sisters? Thats doubtfull. Although an ALL female "race" could certainly somewhat even the male to female ratio.
Wishpig on
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A couple of hours? Man you have to reach level 90 and then grind up 3 reps before you even get ACCESS to the terminator honours questline. Which requires items from several raid bosses (all with low droprates) and even when you have it you still have to finish the armour questline given by the chapter techmarine and grind out the ridiculous mats required to make it.
Noob.
Nah nah nah nah....
You got it all backwards see... they give you everything awesome up front and then you find a way to get yourself nearly killed and turned into a dreadnought.
When I played War and was quite lost on my shadow hunter in dark elf lands I was very upset at the dwarves and humans I saw these were not players but npcs. They were not in a town or at the dockyard but wandering around the contryside.
Few humans have set foot on Ulthuan
Due to the war of the beard no dwarf would be welcome there and yet I could go to Karaz-a-Karak and be welcomed with open arms.
And so on it was this that bothered me a lot about the game. I know that dark elves and chaos have simlar short term goals but share very different long term goals
Orks were in it for the loot chance to burn and kill things
I really am curious about 40k online but after playing Warhammer I really don't know
I can almost guarantee the sisters of battle will be in it. It's just they will be lumped in with the marines. If you go Marine, choose female, it will turn you into a sister. I have no doubt in my mind thats how they will play it, and they will have similar skills just look different. That's how i would do it were i in their shoes anyhow. I mean its an MMO, not table top, and its difficult to translate to an MMO from the 40k lore so they will inevitably have to bend the lore rules to make it more playable and fun.
Goddamn guys thanks for ruining my hopes for this MMO haha. If i saw a female SM i would quit, uninstall and never go back. See the hard core warhammer table top players are very small so i'm sure the retcons were unnoticed by the majority of the players. I know alot of people who have read WH40k books or have been exposed via table top or just DoW. I think the uproar would be to extreme if they fucked up the lore to much.
Dear god if this is a grind MMO then they can go fuck themselves because seriously fuck raids fuck levels FUCK END GAME.
It may give some hope to the people who are complaining about it being another WoW clone.
Thats just a guy speculating for the speculation god. What he wants to see. Nothing to do with Virgil or THQ.
Plus I gitta disagree with him on that one. He thinks once your a space marine... your a space marine. You really can't advance. I dunno wtf he's talking about. DoW2 had a leveling system and it worked pretty damn well.
Furthermore, in lore, characters like Ragnar get better and better and stronger and stronger.
Wishpig on
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Thats just a guy speculating for the speculation god. What he wants to see. Nothing to do with Virgil or THQ.
Plus I gitta disagree with him on that one. He thinks once your a space marine... your a space marine. You really can't advance. I dunno wtf he's talking about. DoW2 had a leveling system and it worked pretty damn well.
Furthermore, in lore, characters like Ragnar get better and better and stronger and stronger.
I think its vigil not virgil. And I didn't read that like you did apparently.
All he was suggesting was that there are NPC characters that follow you (the squad leader) around. You would advance as the leader, and your npc squad members would advance with you. As far as I know, that is a ground breaking way of making an MMO.
Also, I don't get what you meant by once you are a space marine you are always a space marine. Of course you are always going to be a space marine. If you look at the figures, every character is just another genetically enhanced human with different armor. A space marine is a sergeant is an assault squad is terminator is a tech marine.
The whole point of an mmo is character advancement after all. Its literally the definition of it.
I would not equate Sisters with Marines. Other than wearing powered armor, they don't really play out the same.
Aye.
The Space Marines are basically the Incredible Hulk meets Wolverine meets Iron Man. The pinnacle of what the emperor's own dark age superscience can create from human clay. A battle sister USES power armor... an Astartes IS power armor; typical marine underneath his armor, is 7' tall, 600 lbs, and built like a piece of construction equipment. Their very skin has been augmented with the mount-points for the armor plate, the black carapace; the armor becomes a second skin, moving with the body's nerve impulses.
The Sororitas and the Eversor are crude mockeries of the Astartes, and very crude at that.
There's only one martial order elsewhere in the Imperium that really comes close to bordering the union of form and function that the Astartes have, and that's the Vindicare*. And the Titan legions of course; but they don't really count.
*And they do different things. Astartes are many things but their snipers are more "designated marksmen" then actual snipers. The Vindicare are snipers, and if you put the best Astartes scout sniper and the best Vindicare sniper on the range, at a five hundred yards you'd see the Astartes hitting the target and the Vindicare wouldn't be a grouping it'd be just a single neat hole. Assuming he didn't pick off the nails holding the target up just to show off.
They're the best engineers in the world, but they don't innovate. Their engineering is tradition. The helicopter was an accepted part of their engineering lore (before GW retconned it out of WHFB, IIRC) but the nerdrage on the gyrocopter backpack is that it was *new*. Mythic tried to shoehorn it into the lore, saying the war was so desperate that all sides were breaking longstanding taboos to achieve victory (see: sorcerer, male, prohibition against,) but it just came out like a weak and blatant retcon.
Bingo.
But technically female space marines are even more of a lore stretch, as they just don't exist at all.
BUT like the gyrocopter in warhammer online (which I did like), I think it's ok to put gameplay before lore in this case.
You know that is exactly what I said in the first place right? Dwarves love their tech...that's hundreds of years old.
I'm burnt out on MMOs at this point, what with the experience with WAR and all, but if this WH40K MMO has the Sisters or lets you play as an Inquisitor, I'll be at least sold enough to give the trial a spin.
But I'm not going to hold my breath hoping for that.
I have a simple expectation for this game.
If this is me after just a couple hours in the game... then I am sold.
Thats just a guy speculating for the speculation god. What he wants to see. Nothing to do with Virgil or THQ.
Plus I gitta disagree with him on that one. He thinks once your a space marine... your a space marine. You really can't advance. I dunno wtf he's talking about. DoW2 had a leveling system and it worked pretty damn well.
Furthermore, in lore, characters like Ragnar get better and better and stronger and stronger.
I think its vigil not virgil. And I didn't read that like you did apparently.
All he was suggesting was that there are NPC characters that follow you (the squad leader) around. You would advance as the leader, and your npc squad members would advance with you. As far as I know, that is a ground breaking way of making an MMO.
Also, I don't get what you meant by once you are a space marine you are always a space marine. Of course you are always going to be a space marine. If you look at the figures, every character is just another genetically enhanced human with different armor. A space marine is a sergeant is an assault squad is terminator is a tech marine.
The whole point of an mmo is character advancement after all. Its literally the definition of it.
For the most part maybe. Tech Marines train on Mars, Librarians blah blah, apothecaries, chaplains, etc etc. I'm sure that will all be simplified to facilitate 'respecs' or whatever it ends up being called.
Just as long as you can spec into a dreadnaught and back heh.
For the most part maybe. Tech Marines train on Mars, Librarians blah blah, apothecaries, chaplains, etc etc. I'm sure that will all be simplified to facilitate 'respecs' or whatever it ends up being called.
Just as long as you can spec into a dreadnaught and back heh.
That makes me wonder, if Eldar are playable then they will have wraithlords instead of dreadnoughts. And from what I remember, wraithlords have the souls of dead eldar in them. So how would you man a wraithlord as an eldar unit?
Thats just a guy speculating for the speculation god. What he wants to see. Nothing to do with Virgil or THQ.
Plus I gitta disagree with him on that one. He thinks once your a space marine... your a space marine. You really can't advance. I dunno wtf he's talking about. DoW2 had a leveling system and it worked pretty damn well.
Furthermore, in lore, characters like Ragnar get better and better and stronger and stronger.
I think its vigil not virgil. And I didn't read that like you did apparently.
All he was suggesting was that there are NPC characters that follow you (the squad leader) around. You would advance as the leader, and your npc squad members would advance with you. As far as I know, that is a ground breaking way of making an MMO.
Also, I don't get what you meant by once you are a space marine you are always a space marine. Of course you are always going to be a space marine. If you look at the figures, every character is just another genetically enhanced human with different armor. A space marine is a sergeant is an assault squad is terminator is a tech marine.
The whole point of an mmo is character advancement after all. Its literally the definition of it.
Sry I misread it.
It's all speculation on his part of course. But yeah, it would be awesome. To lead you own squad and advance your own squad.
But it's prob not gonna happen. I mean think about the difficulty mmo's face frame-rate wise in larger pvp situations. Now take all those models and multiple them 3 or 4 times.
I'm no dev, but Warhammer Online, WoW, Age of Conan, have trouble handling a ton of models/people in the same place. If devs can't even get their game to handle a PvP match with people controlling only one character (excluding pet classes) then how can they handle a game with people controlling a squad?
Technically it would be very very very tough to pull it off. I suppose not impossible. But it's at this point, very wishfull thinking.
Wishpig on
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Posts
CREED!!!!
And it will be a 24-hour day in the Eye of Terror before I choose Apothecary.
Sure, the average IG trooper can't stand up to a SM. But, player characters aren't your average of any class.
Rigorous Scholarship
?
Anyway, I expect female space marines are incredibly unlikely.
I'm more interested how the game might handle playing a Space Marine in comparison to anything else in the game. With the exception of some Orks, a Space Marine isn't exactly balanced with well, anything else, one on one. Not that I'm unprepared to suspend my disbelief, but I'm still intrigued by how it might be handled.
Thoughts of a Part-Time Hobbyist - A Wargaming and RPG Blog
Yea Wishpig, you are about as wrong as you can get really on that one.
"The dwarfs are by far Warhammer's most technologically advanced race, and are regarded as consummate engineers. Where other races use wooden ships to travel overseas, the dwarfs use ironclad dreadnoughts and nautilus, the Warhammer equivalent of early battleships and submarines. They have also pioneered the development of black powder and steam technology such as cannons, handguns and Gyrocopters (helicopters). They have shared some of this technology with Humans, but still consider the work of the 'Manlings' to be shoddy in comparison to good dwarven work.
The most innovative examples of Dwarven engineering are the Organ Gun (a cannon with multiple light-calibre barrels and a high rate of fire), the Flame Cannon (a massive flamethrower artillery piece with the capacity to destroy entire units), and the Ungrim Ankor, a vast hub of mining tunnels connected to all the Dwarf Strongholds in the Old World.
Dwarfs are a naturally conservative race, however, and most treat technological innovation with suspicion and distrust. Most of their technology is of a highly traditional nature, and their engineering guilds dissuade members from coming up with anything novel or innovative. As such human, Skaven and Chaos Dwarf engineers often produce more unusual, impressive and powerful, albeit less reliable, technologies, such as the Imperial Steam Tank or the Skaven Ratling Gun. A comparison may be found between the Dwarf Organ Gun and the Imperial Hellblaster Volley gun; both artillery pieces are based on the same concept,a ribauld, however while the Dwarf Organ gun can cause a maximum of 10 casualties a game turn and the Hellblaster may cause 30, it is far more likely that the organ gun will be able to cause eight or ten casualties a turn and it is far less likely that the organ will explode."
- From Wikipedia cause I don't have any GW books handy. So you are correct when you say some dwarves don't like new fangled war machines, but very incorrect saying they are anti-tech.
Guess you don't know warhammer dwarf lore if ya posted that...
See that dwarf in the copter? His family probably disowned him and his hold most likley kicked him out. Dwarfs don't even trust cannons, despite having used them for hundreds of years.
Although I see your point. Despite the fact their incredibly rare and despised by their own kin, there are a few dwarfs who dare to fly gyrocopters. I suppose the same can't be said about female space marines.
Still, the uproar against female space marines prob wouldn't compare to the insane nerd-rage that was inspired by the dwarfs' mounts. Dwarf fans were PPPIIISSSEEEDDDDDDDD
Image by Sharpwriter on deviantart.com
Wow... I can't believe this. If we were on a warhammer fansite, you would be ripped apart for saying this. Trust me, I'm a big BIG warhammer dwarf fan. I've got the army books, got all the fantasy novels. Trust me when I say I know what I'm talkin about here.
EDIT-Shit, sorry, meant to combine the two posts.
Don't beleave me? Visit a thread full of angry hardcore dwarf fans, raging over the Gryocopter. It's an old thread... haven't visited the site in a while, but I may be part of the argument. You'll see me defending the gryocopter (I'm cool with breaking lore for gameplay sake.) I get ripped apart.
Image by Sharpwriter on deviantart.com
Theres you mistake. Lore and the TT don't always nicely mix. And the TT is hardly scratches the lore.
I don't know much. But I know my warhammer dwarfs!
Visit the link.
Image by Sharpwriter on deviantart.com
EDIT: http://www.games-workshop.com/gws/content/article.jsp?catId=cat210008&categoryId=400016§ion=&aId=200004
"Dwarfs are supremely skilled craftsmen and take great pride in everything they do. It is almost impossible for a Dwarf to hurry his work, and no Dwarf could ever bring himself to produce something slipshod or cheap. Whether it be forging weapons and armor, the construction of fortifications, or the mechanical inventions of the famed Engineers Guild, the ingenuity and technical ability of Dwarfs is unsurpassed anywhere in the Old World. No other race, not even the great craftsmen of the High Elves, can rival the care and skill of the Dwarfs."
Too bad, life goes on, now where'd I put my heavy bolter...
Sigh... warhammer is known for it's incredibly deep and rich lore, as you know. And yet, you base your argument off of wikipedia and a snippet from the website.
Trust a major dwarf fan on this. One thats read all the lore games-workshop has put out on them.
This isn't the thread to debate this on. But I gotta defend myself on this one. Dwarf culture is damning themselves. Their going extinct for a reason. Their the best damn engineers in the world, but the engineers and technology that could save dwarfs, are shunned and ridiculed by the vast majority. Dwarfs are just beyond traditionalists. To the point of being inhumanly so. Guns and cannons, which dwarfs have used for a long long long time, are highly distrusted by all but engineers. And many engineers don't even trust them. I remember one of the more recent books had a dwarf with a repeating crossbow, and his peers mocked him for it.
On one hand, their technology looks freakin awesome. So games-workshop takes advantage of it, and you see allot of cool mini's based off it. But LOREwise such technology as the gyrocopter would be very very rare. Handguns and cannons, after being used for centuraies, still competeing with crossbows and catapults.
Sad thing is, if they embraced the technology, they wouldn't be a dying race.
It's wierd and a bit contradictory. But thats dwarfs for you. Stupidly stubborn.
It isn't that there aren't dwarfs who would fly it. It's just you would never ever see a runepriest or an ironbreaker on one. Ever.
I'll stop debaiting this now... like I said, wrong place to debate it. But after a year of argueing with dwarf fanboys to calm down, and let relic bend the lore to allow for gyrocopters... I just can't let this argument drop so easily. Real dorky I know.
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Bingo.
But technically female space marines are even more of a lore stretch, as they just don't exist at all.
BUT like the gyrocopter in warhammer online (which I did like), I think it's ok to put gameplay before lore in this case.
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I'm burnt out on MMOs at this point, what with the experience with WAR and all, but if this WH40K MMO has the Sisters or lets you play as an Inquisitor, I'll be at least sold enough to give the trial a spin.
But I'm not going to hold my breath hoping for that.
I have a simple expectation for this game.
If this is me after just a couple hours in the game... then I am sold.
Noob.
They also almost had male witch elves in WAR, but deemed them too ridiculous. You can still find them as NPC's in places in WAR as well, using the same animations as the female Witch Elves. They also had female dwarves on the frontlines which I think is also not according to lore
Really, WAR didn't follow a lot of lore and I doubt WH40KMMO is going to be able to follow it all either
I wouldn't say that. They were inconsistently rigid.
For example, dwarf females DON'T fight. Not because they can't fight, but because the female to male ratio is like 3 to 1. So dwarf babes stay indoors and under-guard. Argue about gyrocopters all you want, but Dwarf females are rare and stay in their holds.
Now I'm not on par with Elf and Empire lore, but I think there aren't any female white lions or female warriors of sigmar. But there were in WAR.
On the other hand, despite having female dwarfs a ready option for three of the dwarf classes... you couldn't be a female slayer? You can KIND of explain that I guess, but even weirder was two of the four chaos classes didn't allow you to be female. Which was really weird cause that wouldn't have bent the lore to severly, as opposed to dwarf females.
And then there's sorcerers. Male dark elves are NOT allowed to be sorcerers (sketchy on elf lore, but I'm pretty sure thats the case.) Yet they could be. (just noticed guy above me confirmed this. Yes, this was a big no no.)
It was all very wierd.
I can just as easily see them allowing female space marines as readily as not.
Much more so then warhammer fantasy, warhammer 40k seems to be very predominantly male. Eldar and Sisters of battle are the two sole exceptions I can think of. Eldar will most certainly be in the mmo... but the sisters? Thats doubtfull. Although an ALL female "race" could certainly somewhat even the male to female ratio.
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Nah nah nah nah....
You got it all backwards see... they give you everything awesome up front and then you find a way to get yourself nearly killed and turned into a dreadnought.
Few humans have set foot on Ulthuan
Due to the war of the beard no dwarf would be welcome there and yet I could go to Karaz-a-Karak and be welcomed with open arms.
And so on it was this that bothered me a lot about the game. I know that dark elves and chaos have simlar short term goals but share very different long term goals
Orks were in it for the loot chance to burn and kill things
I really am curious about 40k online but after playing Warhammer I really don't know
Dear god if this is a grind MMO then they can go fuck themselves because seriously fuck raids fuck levels FUCK END GAME.
It may give some hope to the people who are complaining about it being another WoW clone.
chair to Creation and then suplex the Void.
Thats just a guy speculating for the speculation god. What he wants to see. Nothing to do with Virgil or THQ.
Plus I gitta disagree with him on that one. He thinks once your a space marine... your a space marine. You really can't advance. I dunno wtf he's talking about. DoW2 had a leveling system and it worked pretty damn well.
Furthermore, in lore, characters like Ragnar get better and better and stronger and stronger.
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I think its vigil not virgil. And I didn't read that like you did apparently.
All he was suggesting was that there are NPC characters that follow you (the squad leader) around. You would advance as the leader, and your npc squad members would advance with you. As far as I know, that is a ground breaking way of making an MMO.
Also, I don't get what you meant by once you are a space marine you are always a space marine. Of course you are always going to be a space marine. If you look at the figures, every character is just another genetically enhanced human with different armor. A space marine is a sergeant is an assault squad is terminator is a tech marine.
The whole point of an mmo is character advancement after all. Its literally the definition of it.
Aye.
The Space Marines are basically the Incredible Hulk meets Wolverine meets Iron Man. The pinnacle of what the emperor's own dark age superscience can create from human clay. A battle sister USES power armor... an Astartes IS power armor; typical marine underneath his armor, is 7' tall, 600 lbs, and built like a piece of construction equipment. Their very skin has been augmented with the mount-points for the armor plate, the black carapace; the armor becomes a second skin, moving with the body's nerve impulses.
The Sororitas and the Eversor are crude mockeries of the Astartes, and very crude at that.
There's only one martial order elsewhere in the Imperium that really comes close to bordering the union of form and function that the Astartes have, and that's the Vindicare*. And the Titan legions of course; but they don't really count.
*And they do different things. Astartes are many things but their snipers are more "designated marksmen" then actual snipers. The Vindicare are snipers, and if you put the best Astartes scout sniper and the best Vindicare sniper on the range, at a five hundred yards you'd see the Astartes hitting the target and the Vindicare wouldn't be a grouping it'd be just a single neat hole. Assuming he didn't pick off the nails holding the target up just to show off.
[Wings of Sanguinius]
Critical Failures - Havenhold Campaign • August St. Cloud (Human Ranger)
You know that is exactly what I said in the first place right? Dwarves love their tech...that's hundreds of years old.
Courage and Honor!
For the most part maybe. Tech Marines train on Mars, Librarians blah blah, apothecaries, chaplains, etc etc. I'm sure that will all be simplified to facilitate 'respecs' or whatever it ends up being called.
Just as long as you can spec into a dreadnaught and back heh.
That makes me wonder, if Eldar are playable then they will have wraithlords instead of dreadnoughts. And from what I remember, wraithlords have the souls of dead eldar in them. So how would you man a wraithlord as an eldar unit?
if im going to spend literal days looking at a butt, you damn well better be sure I'll be looking at a female's digitally rendered butt.
It's all speculation on his part of course. But yeah, it would be awesome. To lead you own squad and advance your own squad.
But it's prob not gonna happen. I mean think about the difficulty mmo's face frame-rate wise in larger pvp situations. Now take all those models and multiple them 3 or 4 times.
I'm no dev, but Warhammer Online, WoW, Age of Conan, have trouble handling a ton of models/people in the same place. If devs can't even get their game to handle a PvP match with people controlling only one character (excluding pet classes) then how can they handle a game with people controlling a squad?
Technically it would be very very very tough to pull it off. I suppose not impossible. But it's at this point, very wishfull thinking.
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Tankred!