ArchonexNo hard feelings, right?Registered Userregular
edited March 2010
It's been said before, but the best way to balance SM's and IG is to have the SM be a solo player with no NPC backup, or have four (Depending on the scale of the game.), and have the IG player have a shit-ton of highly expendable guardsmen NPC's to command, and possibly heavy weaponry later on like tanks.
That encourages SM players to work together (Which is really their biggest strength, super-muscles and armor aside.), and the IG players to mass up for meat-grinder charges with their guardsmen NPC's. Which is pretty much spot-on for the lore.
SM's may be powerful, but named characters and chapters like the Grey Knights and Deathwatch aside, they're not anywhere near at the level that the Imperium plays them up to be. A good guardsmen can butcher a SM if he gets the drop on him. The novels and fluff have plenty of examples of it when it isn't colored by imperial propaganda.
Nevermind that a melta will kill a guardsmen just as well as a space marine. And alot of the more elite guardsmen units are supposed to carry them with them to vaporize a small squad or tank on command.
But man, i'm all for a commissar class. I'll be that dickbag who brings in five guardsmen, and immediately executes them all for shits and giggles in the middle of a pitched battle for the slightest fuck-up.
I support the idea of guardsmen being a pet class.
Perhaps three career 'tracks' for IG characters.
Commissar: Gets three pet guardsmen who can become karskin. Commissar can't summon anything.
Sergeant: Gets two pet guardsmen who can use most of the troops weapons choices. Sergeant can summon a customizable Chimera chassis.
Gunner: Gets one pet guardsman, and can only be bob, wearing cardboard armor, holding a flashlight basic infantry or dig in to become a heavy weapons team. Gunner can summon a customizable Leman Russ chassis.
Basically an RPG with dots and nukes and selling trash gear and auction houses and stat debuffs and blah blah blah is a fucking poor fit to the universe.
This is what I want:
a planet with a long entrenched war between orks and humans. You can either start as an ork gang or a human gang. The orks are playing some sort of rts/fps hybrid where they speed around the desert in buggies. This is called gorkamorka. The humans are fighting in the hive in an rts/fps hybrid. This is called Necromunda. At some point in the game the ork gangs can get recruited into the waagh and the human gangs can get recruited into the space marines (maybe guard as well). Then you fight eachother.
The good thing about having a squad/gang instead of just one guy is that you can do long term progression without making your dude into a god.
Something to consider--the vehicle models look fairly detailed but not go inside detailed. The rhino model looks alot like a WoW model which is depressing--no collision detection means no FPS which means auto attack WoW clone.
I just hope they learn that there should be no economy and no crafting. Space marines do not swap bolters and every single IG weapon is pretty much the same as the other guys. Add a talent esc tree for the marines to allow them to get different weapons and have IG players get prestige from doing shit to requisition equipment from the armory. Orks should have to beat up mekboy's to get them to build them better shit.
See this shits going to fail day fucking one because your going to see 2 marines trading *rusty bolter* and the entire game will shatter in your mind. I'm still pissed that the self propelled bolter shells spit out shell casings even though its technically a caseless round. I can see a minor case to protect the rocket nozzle but why and how does it fly out of the gun? why the hell dont they just make it a goddamn normal round if their firing it just like a goddamn bullet? I doubt the small amount of propellant will make a difference if its leaving the barrel at super sonic speeds because its fired like a bullet.
Why cant they just use normal explosive slugs that have a fuse? i mean you can tell how long it takes to reach its max effective range and time the fuse to make it explode a second after it reaches it. If you fire the shell into a body your still shooting someone with a normal bullet except its going to explode in like 2-3 seconds. Who the hell wanted mini rocket launchers.
In a way it is pretty funny that I am able to suspend disbelief for a ridiculously abstract combat system like WoW in a fantasy setting but when you apply the same abstractions to shooting people with guns I start to complain.
Standing 10 metres a way and taking turns to shoot each other is no more or less realistic than standing 1 metre apart and taking turns to stab each other. I guess its because nothing as universal as the FPS has emerged for melee combat.
Something to consider--the vehicle models look fairly detailed but not go inside detailed. The rhino model looks alot like a WoW model which is depressing--no collision detection means no FPS which means auto attack WoW clone.
I just hope they learn that there should be no economy and no crafting. Space marines do not swap bolters and every single IG weapon is pretty much the same as the other guys. Add a talent esc tree for the marines to allow them to get different weapons and have IG players get prestige from doing shit to requisition equipment from the armory. Orks should have to beat up mekboy's to get them to build them better shit.
See this shits going to fail day fucking one because your going to see 2 marines trading *rusty bolter* and the entire game will shatter in your mind.
Ur joking right?
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In a way it is pretty funny that I am able to suspend disbelief for a ridiculously abstract combat system like WoW in a fantasy setting but when you apply the same abstractions to shooting people with guns I start to complain.
Standing 10 metres a way and taking turns to shoot each other is no more or less realistic than standing 1 metre apart and taking turns to stab each other. I guess its because nothing as universal as the FPS has emerged for melee combat.
Well to stab someone you generally gotta be within retaliation range so its fairly logical that you'll be stabbing each other but bring in guns and its quite likely to turn into either a 1 sided affair or a turn taking affair unless you want to shoot each other.
I wouldent mind a system that required you to have LoS and killed in relatively few hits. It would be the WoW auto attack combat except it would require you to pay attention and jump in and out of cover to actually attack. Its not much different from manual aim or real life unless you want to include a shitton of ballistics and physics which i dont think would work in a MMO but then again theres mortal online proving you can.
I wouldent mind a system that required you to have LoS and killed in relatively few hits. It would be the WoW auto attack combat except it would require you to pay attention and jump in and out of cover to actually attack. Its not much different from manual aim or real life unless you want to include a shitton of ballistics and physics which i dont think would work in a MMO but then again theres mortal online proving you can.
We've already seen a working example of this in Tabula Tasa, ranged weapon attacks requiring LOS combined with melee weapons and class based special abilities, there was no manual aiming as such but it worked out rather well.
In a way it is pretty funny that I am able to suspend disbelief for a ridiculously abstract combat system like WoW in a fantasy setting but when you apply the same abstractions to shooting people with guns I start to complain.
Standing 10 metres a way and taking turns to shoot each other is no more or less realistic than standing 1 metre apart and taking turns to stab each other. I guess its because nothing as universal as the FPS has emerged for melee combat.
Well, hate to tell you, but thats Warhammer for you. It's a world where bringing swords to a gunfight is common place for some stupid reason.
Because melee combat is so damn important in the Warhammer World, you will without a doubt, have players fill tank roles and take a few dozen shots before going down.
I imagine it will play out ALLOT like the kotor series.
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Unfortunately that is usually code for "it will have a horrible combat system" (like all MMO's)
For a franchise with tons of guns, explosions and carnage to "not be a shooter" is pretty worrying to me. I mean, they could pull it off, I guess. It's too early to say that their gameplay is going to be terrible, but in my mind 40K would work best with proper action-y shooter mechanics and they have already stated that they didn't go for that.
I'm going to go 'on record' and predict that, if this is a straight-up RPG (And not for instance, a Borderlands-style FPSRPG or something tactical and squad based), Space Marines will not be a playable option at the start. More out of hope than anything.
If I'm right, I think it could be a cool game with a very interesting setting. If I'm wrong, then I hope it's because they've managed to make playable Marines work and be fun - and not by simply making IG have 'pet men'.
Either way I win! My interest in this doesn't stem from my devotion to the 40k backstory, but because in my opinion, it would be nice to see someone take some initiative, and not just go for the easy route - in this case, by plugging the Space Marines. My faith in humanity is probably way overshot here, and there would inevitably be cries of 'What the fuck do you mean I can't be a Space Marine?'.
Will someone be able to say 'Well, no, you can't, but check out this possibly much cooler stuff.'
('And then buy next years expansion where you can BE A SPACE MARINE!')
Assault Jump Pack and a Two-Handed Thunder Hammer.
You could base the system around a 6 person party instead of a 5 person party. And make it so a space Marine takes up 2 party-slots.
So a full party of Space Marines would only be 3 people, where-as a group of IG or other races would be 6 people.
It would be more challenging for SM players, but they would be pretty hard-core. Such a system would harbor community elitism within the ranks of SM players. Which I think is actually appropriate.
Unfortunately that is usually code for "it will have a horrible combat system" (like all MMO's)
For a franchise with tons of guns, explosions and carnage to "not be a shooter" is pretty worrying to me. I mean, they could pull it off, I guess. It's too early to say that their gameplay is going to be terrible, but in my mind 40K would work best with proper action-y shooter mechanics and they have already stated that they didn't go for that.
I don't mind the typical MMO combat system, just because it means I don't become a completely useless waste of space if I experience a bit of lag. However, I would note that I feel like WoW is one of the few to actually do it right, by which I mean they did a good job of hiding the game behind the game of calculating hits, misses, crits, etc. I quit Warhammer online because the combat system was so terrible and unresponsive it felt like I was playing a 10 year old game.
3rd person action game or first person action game is what I would have wanted out of this.
I just hope it will not be "stand a few meters away from your foe, click a button on the UI, watch as your character shoots 5 automatically aimed bullets at foe, then repeat process"
I guess it depends. WoW and typical fantasy MMOs have a lot of different abilities that they can call on. Different spells, different attacks, etc. I guess when you have a gun there are only so many ways you can shoot it, which would make a typical hotkey oriented system a bit boring.
3rd person action game or first person action game is what I would have wanted out of this.
I just hope it will not be "stand a few meters away from your foe, click a button on the UI, watch as your character shoots 5 automatically aimed bullets at foe, then repeat process"
There's still the third person action game coming from Relic.
3rd person action game or first person action game is what I would have wanted out of this.
I just hope it will not be "stand a few meters away from your foe, click a button on the UI, watch as your character shoots 5 automatically aimed bullets at foe, then repeat process"
There's still the third person action game coming from Relic.
I haven't seen anything about that since the original video.
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ApogeeLancks In Every Game EverRegistered Userregular
edited March 2010
Well, I'm going to just go ahead and speculate/wishlist... I have no idea what the mechanics will be (does anyone?) but here's my take on PCs.
Marines:
They probably won't restrict people to a single chapter, so they'll say you're part of the Deathwatch or something, so you can make up your own backstory/speciality. Pretty straightforward - run around with big guns/swords and kill things. Be un unstoppable superhuman.
Guardsmen:
I'd love to be able to play as a squad commander - have the Guardsmen be the 'pet' class, with run running the show and 3 or 4 NPCs you get to arm/order around. That'd be a blast. Hey, maybe upgrade to the Leman Run mount and have everyone man a gun :P.
Sisters of Battle:
Would be awesome to have a female race/choice that isn't really cartoony. Shoot, burn, and use faith to win battles. All sorts of ways the faith system could be expanded to make this work, including CC specialists. Be a Seraphim, or better yet, a Repentia! Although that last one would kind of break the 'not cartoony' thing.
Orks:
Orksorksorksorksorks! Many ways they could go, again. Probably some 'Waagh' system - maybe have the orks work in groups a la the guardsmen hypothesis. Smash things, shoot things, be reckless.
Pretty much all the other races are simple to think about - Eldar, Chaos, Tau... pretty easy to think of the race/class divisions there. Nids would be interesting, though.
I wonder if they will let you play as a chaos daemon. Now that would be interesting. I would totally roll a plaguebearer.
But assuming this is a pvp oriented game, I would again like to bring up population imbalance as this was something that occurred in warhammer online when more people were in the Destruction faction. I could see it happening again but possibly worse with space marines.
Well, hate to tell you, but thats Warhammer for you. It's a world where bringing swords to a gunfight is common place for some stupid reason.
It's because most of the people who do it are wearing a half ton of power armor and/or have a psychic shield and/or move like anime characters and their swords can cut tanks in half, or are just brain dead/nearly brain dead cannon fodder. NORMAL [and sane] individuals generally hide behind a chunk of rubble for cover and plink away at another enemy behind a chunk of rubble with a las gun because they ain't got no [useful] armor and las guns are easier on ammo. EVEN THEN, the super heavily armored super soldiers are generally still carrying a pistol larger and more powerful than a modern heavy 50cal MG in one hand.
Well, I'm going to just go ahead and speculate/wishlist... I have no idea what the mechanics will be (does anyone?) but here's my take on PCs.
Marines:
They probably won't restrict people to a single chapter, so they'll say you're part of the Deathwatch or something, so you can make up your own backstory/speciality. Pretty straightforward - run around with big guns/swords and kill things. Be un unstoppable superhuman.
Guardsmen:
I'd love to be able to play as a squad commander - have the Guardsmen be the 'pet' class, with run running the show and 3 or 4 NPCs you get to arm/order around. That'd be a blast. Hey, maybe upgrade to the Leman Run mount and have everyone man a gun :P.
Sisters of Battle:
Would be awesome to have a female race/choice that isn't really cartoony. Shoot, burn, and use faith to win battles. All sorts of ways the faith system could be expanded to make this work, including CC specialists. Be a Seraphim, or better yet, a Repentia! Although that last one would kind of break the 'not cartoony' thing.
Orks:
Orksorksorksorksorks! Many ways they could go, again. Probably some 'Waagh' system - maybe have the orks work in groups a la the guardsmen hypothesis. Smash things, shoot things, be reckless.
Pretty much all the other races are simple to think about - Eldar, Chaos, Tau... pretty easy to think of the race/class divisions there. Nids would be interesting, though.
Damn is there any better weapon idea than a two-handed chainsword with a flamer on it? I don't think so. I've used those with great effectiveness in Necromunda many times.
Well, hate to tell you, but thats Warhammer for you. It's a world where bringing swords to a gunfight is common place for some stupid reason.
It's because most of the people who do it are wearing a half ton of power armor and/or have a psychic shield and/or move like anime characters and their swords can cut tanks in half, or are just brain dead/nearly brain dead cannon fodder. NORMAL [and sane] individuals generally hide behind a chunk of rubble for cover and plink away at another enemy behind a chunk of rubble with a las gun because they ain't got no [useful] armor and las guns are easier on ammo. EVEN THEN, the super heavily armored super soldiers are generally still carrying a pistol larger and more powerful than a modern heavy 50cal MG in one hand.
Yeah, well, it's an mmo. Who do you think your gonna be able to play as? The uber individual in the armor, or one of the red shirt guardsmen?
In the RTS warhammer 40k video games you got troops with swords charging (and surviving) a hail of bullets. In the TT warhammer 40k you got troops with swords charging (and surviving) a hail of bullets. In the upcoming third-person shooter you got troops with swords charging (and surviving) a hail of bullets. In the upcoming mmo you will have players with swords charging (and surviving) a hail of bullets. If it ruins people immersion, I dunno how the hell they got into warhammer 40k in the first place.
Melee combat is a big part of the world, in 40k it pays to bring a sword to a gunfight... why... because a chainsaw axe looks cool dammit! Unrealistic, hell yeah, but hey, for Orks, SM, Chaos, and Eldar, thats just how it works.
Like I said before, I would be willing to bet it's gonna play VERY similar to Old Republic... as both worlds have combat composed of brining magic of a sort and swords to gun fights.
As mentioned many times on this thread, a guardsmen pet class could work. You control a small elite squad of NPC's, and perhaps even a cover system like in Old Republic.
But at the same time, just like in Old Republic, your gonna have those moments where a smuggler with a gun is able to take out a Jedi master. It's gonna be lore-breaking, it's gonna be unrealistic, but hey... many times gameplay>lore.
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Stop focusing on the whole "The entire MMO field is full of crap!" aspect here.
And focus on this one other part. The part where the WORST 40k game ever made? Merely average. (Soulstorm does not COUNT, dammit!)
And yet most 40k games? We have agreed. Are /awesome/. So, good hope vibes.
Also, they'll probably go with Scout -> Marine - > Terminator as an upgrade path, as I'm predicting a more asian-mmo style class-advancement system to accomodate that.
Also, what do you bet Eliphas and Gorgutz show up?
Well, there would have to be a +/- for Terminator armor.
You might have tons of armor, but you'd have shit for mobility and your equipment would be limited to uber heavy weapons.
Whereas a marine in Mk6/7/8 armor would have tons of customizations and kit options to specialize in different things, and would have average mobility.
The scout would be hella mobile, but have a limited set of equipment except it would be light weapons like sniper-rifles, bolters, flamers, etc. No heavy weapons like PlasmaCannons, LasCannons, Heavy Bolters, etc.
Heavy bolter marine sounds fun. Let the rest of your party wade in and start fucking up/distracting the others then you move to the top of the ridge and start raining death.
Melee combat is a big part of the world, in 40k it pays to bring a sword to a gunfight... why... because a chainsaw axe looks cool dammit! Unrealistic, hell yeah, but hey, for Orks, SM, Chaos, and Eldar, thats just how it works.
Guy holding a Chainsaw Axe < 20 guys driving a Baneblade
Vehicular combat is as important to 40k as the melee combat.
You see melee weapons are important because you often fight more people then you have friggin ammo and most of them will not go down with a single shot(orkz/chaos/nids/necrons) and alot of them would win in a straight up ranged fight(eldar/nids/necrons/tau) not to mention the few who are inhumanly fast and WILL get in your face where having a giant gun wont matter(eldar/nids/necro/orkz/chaos). Once we invent power armor and full body carapace armor you'll see the focus shift to weapons that ignore armor.
You simply cant have space marines and expect the population to be balanced--chaos is fun but overall their not as fun as space marines. Sure you get fancier armor but its either going to be covered in dried blood, rot or a shitton of ugly horns. Your worlds will be black waste lands and if you take a world you'll quickly convert it to a shit hole cause thats just what you do. If your a space marine you'll have fucking awesome looking clean gleaming armor around badass looking locals theres going to be no fucking comparison.
You simply cant have space marines and expect the population to be balanced--chaos is fun but overall their not as fun as space marines. Sure you get fancier armor but its either going to be covered in dried blood, rot or a shitton of ugly horns. Your worlds will be black waste lands and if you take a world you'll quickly convert it to a shit hole cause thats just what you do. If your a space marine you'll have fucking awesome looking clean gleaming armor around badass looking locals theres going to be no fucking comparison.
Being a crazy superhuman in power armor appeals to me a bit more that just a superhuman in power armor... and being a green-skinned moster with a cockney accent or an average joe who has to deal with all that appeals to me more than either of those.
...and I'm pretty sure there is a Daemon World or two out there that are not just black waste lands either.
Do the Space Marines have arguably better tech than the Chaos Space Marines?
I think so, but it seems conflicted in a way.
On one hand, I believe in the Chaos codex it mentions how in some cases they're using very old designs and are unable to upgrade or re-equip their forces (a weakness overcome by daemonic powers, possition, etc).
But on the other hand, I've also read about how technology has stagnated since the death of the emperor, in the Imperium. And much technology has been lost. So I'm not really sure.
You simply cant have space marines and expect the population to be balanced--chaos is fun but overall their not as fun as space marines. Sure you get fancier armor but its either going to be covered in dried blood, rot or a shitton of ugly horns. Your worlds will be black waste lands and if you take a world you'll quickly convert it to a shit hole cause thats just what you do. If your a space marine you'll have fucking awesome looking clean gleaming armor around badass looking locals theres going to be no fucking comparison.
I think Chaos Space Marines are 10X more fun then normal pansy space marines
All opinion my friend!
I think Chaos Space Marine to Space Marine population will be somewhat even. Chaos was the most popular in Warhammer Online right? People seem to love playing the bad guys in MMO's these days... but who knows.
Stop focusing on the whole "The entire MMO field is full of crap!" aspect here.
And focus on this one other part. The part where the WORST 40k game ever made? Merely average. (Soulstorm does not COUNT, dammit!)
And yet most 40k games? We have agreed. Are /awesome/. So, good hope vibes.
Also, they'll probably go with Scout -> Marine - > Terminator as an upgrade path, as I'm predicting a more asian-mmo style class-advancement system to accomodate that.
Also, what do you bet Eliphas and Gorgutz show up?
If it's a class based game, Scout, Marine, and Terminator could very easily just be different classes. Scout, the ranged/sneak class, Marine the jack of all trades, and Terminator the tank. Of course lorewise... not a perfect fit, but mah, I'd be down with it.
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Just_Bri_ThanksSeething with ragefrom a handbasket.Registered User, ClubPAregular
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That encourages SM players to work together (Which is really their biggest strength, super-muscles and armor aside.), and the IG players to mass up for meat-grinder charges with their guardsmen NPC's. Which is pretty much spot-on for the lore.
SM's may be powerful, but named characters and chapters like the Grey Knights and Deathwatch aside, they're not anywhere near at the level that the Imperium plays them up to be. A good guardsmen can butcher a SM if he gets the drop on him. The novels and fluff have plenty of examples of it when it isn't colored by imperial propaganda.
Nevermind that a melta will kill a guardsmen just as well as a space marine. And alot of the more elite guardsmen units are supposed to carry them with them to vaporize a small squad or tank on command.
But man, i'm all for a commissar class. I'll be that dickbag who brings in five guardsmen, and immediately executes them all for shits and giggles in the middle of a pitched battle for the slightest fuck-up.
Perhaps three career 'tracks' for IG characters.
Commissar: Gets three pet guardsmen who can become karskin. Commissar can't summon anything.
Sergeant: Gets two pet guardsmen who can use most of the troops weapons choices. Sergeant can summon a customizable Chimera chassis.
Gunner: Gets one pet guardsman, and can only be bob, wearing cardboard armor, holding a flashlight basic infantry or dig in to become a heavy weapons team. Gunner can summon a customizable Leman Russ chassis.
This is what I want:
a planet with a long entrenched war between orks and humans. You can either start as an ork gang or a human gang. The orks are playing some sort of rts/fps hybrid where they speed around the desert in buggies. This is called gorkamorka. The humans are fighting in the hive in an rts/fps hybrid. This is called Necromunda. At some point in the game the ork gangs can get recruited into the waagh and the human gangs can get recruited into the space marines (maybe guard as well). Then you fight eachother.
The good thing about having a squad/gang instead of just one guy is that you can do long term progression without making your dude into a god.
https://medium.com/@alascii
I just hope they learn that there should be no economy and no crafting. Space marines do not swap bolters and every single IG weapon is pretty much the same as the other guys. Add a talent esc tree for the marines to allow them to get different weapons and have IG players get prestige from doing shit to requisition equipment from the armory. Orks should have to beat up mekboy's to get them to build them better shit.
See this shits going to fail day fucking one because your going to see 2 marines trading *rusty bolter* and the entire game will shatter in your mind. I'm still pissed that the self propelled bolter shells spit out shell casings even though its technically a caseless round. I can see a minor case to protect the rocket nozzle but why and how does it fly out of the gun? why the hell dont they just make it a goddamn normal round if their firing it just like a goddamn bullet? I doubt the small amount of propellant will make a difference if its leaving the barrel at super sonic speeds because its fired like a bullet.
Why cant they just use normal explosive slugs that have a fuse? i mean you can tell how long it takes to reach its max effective range and time the fuse to make it explode a second after it reaches it. If you fire the shell into a body your still shooting someone with a normal bullet except its going to explode in like 2-3 seconds. Who the hell wanted mini rocket launchers.
https://medium.com/@alascii
Standing 10 metres a way and taking turns to shoot each other is no more or less realistic than standing 1 metre apart and taking turns to stab each other. I guess its because nothing as universal as the FPS has emerged for melee combat.
https://medium.com/@alascii
Ur joking right?
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Well to stab someone you generally gotta be within retaliation range so its fairly logical that you'll be stabbing each other but bring in guns and its quite likely to turn into either a 1 sided affair or a turn taking affair unless you want to shoot each other.
I wouldent mind a system that required you to have LoS and killed in relatively few hits. It would be the WoW auto attack combat except it would require you to pay attention and jump in and out of cover to actually attack. Its not much different from manual aim or real life unless you want to include a shitton of ballistics and physics which i dont think would work in a MMO but then again theres mortal online proving you can.
We've already seen a working example of this in Tabula Tasa, ranged weapon attacks requiring LOS combined with melee weapons and class based special abilities, there was no manual aiming as such but it worked out rather well.
I miss my Guardian
Well, hate to tell you, but thats Warhammer for you. It's a world where bringing swords to a gunfight is common place for some stupid reason.
Because melee combat is so damn important in the Warhammer World, you will without a doubt, have players fill tank roles and take a few dozen shots before going down.
I imagine it will play out ALLOT like the kotor series.
Image by Sharpwriter on deviantart.com
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For a franchise with tons of guns, explosions and carnage to "not be a shooter" is pretty worrying to me. I mean, they could pull it off, I guess. It's too early to say that their gameplay is going to be terrible, but in my mind 40K would work best with proper action-y shooter mechanics and they have already stated that they didn't go for that.
I want lighting claws!
If I'm right, I think it could be a cool game with a very interesting setting. If I'm wrong, then I hope it's because they've managed to make playable Marines work and be fun - and not by simply making IG have 'pet men'.
Either way I win! My interest in this doesn't stem from my devotion to the 40k backstory, but because in my opinion, it would be nice to see someone take some initiative, and not just go for the easy route - in this case, by plugging the Space Marines. My faith in humanity is probably way overshot here, and there would inevitably be cries of 'What the fuck do you mean I can't be a Space Marine?'.
Will someone be able to say 'Well, no, you can't, but check out this possibly much cooler stuff.'
('And then buy next years expansion where you can BE A SPACE MARINE!')
I want a chainsword used by a Saint.
You could base the system around a 6 person party instead of a 5 person party. And make it so a space Marine takes up 2 party-slots.
So a full party of Space Marines would only be 3 people, where-as a group of IG or other races would be 6 people.
It would be more challenging for SM players, but they would be pretty hard-core. Such a system would harbor community elitism within the ranks of SM players. Which I think is actually appropriate.
Critical Failures - Havenhold Campaign • August St. Cloud (Human Ranger)
I don't mind the typical MMO combat system, just because it means I don't become a completely useless waste of space if I experience a bit of lag. However, I would note that I feel like WoW is one of the few to actually do it right, by which I mean they did a good job of hiding the game behind the game of calculating hits, misses, crits, etc. I quit Warhammer online because the combat system was so terrible and unresponsive it felt like I was playing a 10 year old game.
I just hope it will not be "stand a few meters away from your foe, click a button on the UI, watch as your character shoots 5 automatically aimed bullets at foe, then repeat process"
There's still the third person action game coming from Relic.
I haven't seen anything about that since the original video.
Marines:
They probably won't restrict people to a single chapter, so they'll say you're part of the Deathwatch or something, so you can make up your own backstory/speciality. Pretty straightforward - run around with big guns/swords and kill things. Be un unstoppable superhuman.
Guardsmen:
I'd love to be able to play as a squad commander - have the Guardsmen be the 'pet' class, with run running the show and 3 or 4 NPCs you get to arm/order around. That'd be a blast. Hey, maybe upgrade to the Leman Run mount and have everyone man a gun :P.
Sisters of Battle:
Would be awesome to have a female race/choice that isn't really cartoony. Shoot, burn, and use faith to win battles. All sorts of ways the faith system could be expanded to make this work, including CC specialists. Be a Seraphim, or better yet, a Repentia! Although that last one would kind of break the 'not cartoony' thing.
Orks:
Orksorksorksorksorks! Many ways they could go, again. Probably some 'Waagh' system - maybe have the orks work in groups a la the guardsmen hypothesis. Smash things, shoot things, be reckless.
Pretty much all the other races are simple to think about - Eldar, Chaos, Tau... pretty easy to think of the race/class divisions there. Nids would be interesting, though.
But assuming this is a pvp oriented game, I would again like to bring up population imbalance as this was something that occurred in warhammer online when more people were in the Destruction faction. I could see it happening again but possibly worse with space marines.
It's because most of the people who do it are wearing a half ton of power armor and/or have a psychic shield and/or move like anime characters and their swords can cut tanks in half, or are just brain dead/nearly brain dead cannon fodder. NORMAL [and sane] individuals generally hide behind a chunk of rubble for cover and plink away at another enemy behind a chunk of rubble with a las gun because they ain't got no [useful] armor and las guns are easier on ammo. EVEN THEN, the super heavily armored super soldiers are generally still carrying a pistol larger and more powerful than a modern heavy 50cal MG in one hand.
Damn is there any better weapon idea than a two-handed chainsword with a flamer on it? I don't think so. I've used those with great effectiveness in Necromunda many times.
Yeah, well, it's an mmo. Who do you think your gonna be able to play as? The uber individual in the armor, or one of the red shirt guardsmen?
In the RTS warhammer 40k video games you got troops with swords charging (and surviving) a hail of bullets. In the TT warhammer 40k you got troops with swords charging (and surviving) a hail of bullets. In the upcoming third-person shooter you got troops with swords charging (and surviving) a hail of bullets. In the upcoming mmo you will have players with swords charging (and surviving) a hail of bullets. If it ruins people immersion, I dunno how the hell they got into warhammer 40k in the first place.
Melee combat is a big part of the world, in 40k it pays to bring a sword to a gunfight... why... because a chainsaw axe looks cool dammit! Unrealistic, hell yeah, but hey, for Orks, SM, Chaos, and Eldar, thats just how it works.
Like I said before, I would be willing to bet it's gonna play VERY similar to Old Republic... as both worlds have combat composed of brining magic of a sort and swords to gun fights.
As mentioned many times on this thread, a guardsmen pet class could work. You control a small elite squad of NPC's, and perhaps even a cover system like in Old Republic.
But at the same time, just like in Old Republic, your gonna have those moments where a smuggler with a gun is able to take out a Jedi master. It's gonna be lore-breaking, it's gonna be unrealistic, but hey... many times gameplay>lore.
Image by Sharpwriter on deviantart.com
Stop focusing on the whole "The entire MMO field is full of crap!" aspect here.
And focus on this one other part. The part where the WORST 40k game ever made? Merely average. (Soulstorm does not COUNT, dammit!)
And yet most 40k games? We have agreed. Are /awesome/. So, good hope vibes.
Also, they'll probably go with Scout -> Marine - > Terminator as an upgrade path, as I'm predicting a more asian-mmo style class-advancement system to accomodate that.
Also, what do you bet Eliphas and Gorgutz show up?
You might have tons of armor, but you'd have shit for mobility and your equipment would be limited to uber heavy weapons.
Whereas a marine in Mk6/7/8 armor would have tons of customizations and kit options to specialize in different things, and would have average mobility.
The scout would be hella mobile, but have a limited set of equipment except it would be light weapons like sniper-rifles, bolters, flamers, etc. No heavy weapons like PlasmaCannons, LasCannons, Heavy Bolters, etc.
Heavy bolter marine sounds fun. Let the rest of your party wade in and start fucking up/distracting the others then you move to the top of the ridge and start raining death.
Critical Failures - Havenhold Campaign • August St. Cloud (Human Ranger)
Guy holding a Chainsaw Axe < 20 guys driving a Baneblade
Vehicular combat is as important to 40k as the melee combat.
You simply cant have space marines and expect the population to be balanced--chaos is fun but overall their not as fun as space marines. Sure you get fancier armor but its either going to be covered in dried blood, rot or a shitton of ugly horns. Your worlds will be black waste lands and if you take a world you'll quickly convert it to a shit hole cause thats just what you do. If your a space marine you'll have fucking awesome looking clean gleaming armor around badass looking locals theres going to be no fucking comparison.
Critical Failures - Havenhold Campaign • August St. Cloud (Human Ranger)
Being a crazy superhuman in power armor appeals to me a bit more that just a superhuman in power armor... and being a green-skinned moster with a cockney accent or an average joe who has to deal with all that appeals to me more than either of those.
...and I'm pretty sure there is a Daemon World or two out there that are not just black waste lands either.
I think so, but it seems conflicted in a way.
On one hand, I believe in the Chaos codex it mentions how in some cases they're using very old designs and are unable to upgrade or re-equip their forces (a weakness overcome by daemonic powers, possition, etc).
But on the other hand, I've also read about how technology has stagnated since the death of the emperor, in the Imperium. And much technology has been lost. So I'm not really sure.
No, both sides are on about the same footing tech-wise.
Chaos has corruption and daemons though, while Imperium usually have numbers on their side. It's been a stalemate for a long long long time.
chair to Creation and then suplex the Void.
The only major technical advance in Astartes equipment since the Heresy has been the introduction of Storm Bolters. Traitor legions use combi-bolters.
I think Chaos Space Marines are 10X more fun then normal pansy space marines
All opinion my friend!
I think Chaos Space Marine to Space Marine population will be somewhat even. Chaos was the most popular in Warhammer Online right? People seem to love playing the bad guys in MMO's these days... but who knows.
If it's a class based game, Scout, Marine, and Terminator could very easily just be different classes. Scout, the ranged/sneak class, Marine the jack of all trades, and Terminator the tank. Of course lorewise... not a perfect fit, but mah, I'd be down with it.
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And the difference between the two is a rather simple mechanical one. Shows how tech has been going since the Heresy. Or rather, how it has not.
chair to Creation and then suplex the Void.