Handsome CostanzaAsk me about 8bitdoRIP Iwata-sanRegistered Userregular
edited April 2010
I just started a World Domination campaign as the Prussians. I am currently building up my trade economy while simultaneously liberating the small nations around me. Is there a particular advantage to making these countries protectorates, as opposed to annexing them? So far Saxony won't do a damn thing I've asked of them. I'm about to give up and invade again.
Doesn't help that both Austria, France, and Russia just declared war on me. I don't even know what I did wrong. maybe it was conquering the Hessan's in 3 turns. I dunno.
Abandon it. Then you can milk it again in the future.
Rather do that then engage in a godawful counter-insurgency. I haven't completely ruled out turning Prussia into a protectorate--it's just near impossible to force an actual power into becoming a protectorate, even with the threat of war. Which is why protectorates always seem to be small city-states instead.
I may end up forcing a state into a protectorate, and then giving them several cities just to resemble a half-decent protectorate.
Doesn't help that both Austria, France, and Russia just declared war on me. I don't even know what I did wrong. maybe it was conquering the Hessan's in 3 turns. I dunno.
Protectorates are primarily useful when you already possess large numbers of cities, and the area in question is far away (like Warsaw for France).
Synthesis on
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Handsome CostanzaAsk me about 8bitdoRIP Iwata-sanRegistered Userregular
edited April 2010
I just recieved a close defeat when I still had 40% of my forces left and the battle was even on the marker. WTF? Did that happen because the general I happened to be facing was Napoleon?
Well, looting and abandoning Berlin was an excellent idea. Mostly because it netted me a sweet 30,000+. It paid off the Arc de Triumph, and then some. I promptly abandoned it, and a few turns later, it was taken by...Sweden. Their army was, as it happens, even easier to kick in the ass than the Prussians, and I defeated it with the same army in the next turn. Suck on that, Vikings, stick to what you're good at...social welfare and bikini models, and leave war to the real countries.
So far, my plan to create two three strong protectorates--Austria, Hungary, and Poland--with multiple regions each seems to be working. Poland will get Lemberg as well as Warsaw, Hungary will get Translyvania, and Austria will get the area bordering north Italy. This'll supply some decent income, some potential trade partners, and very importantly, enemies to distract Russia.
One slight problem...to end the war with Prussia, you need to take Konigsberg (technically after you've held both Berlin and Warsaw, though the game isn't picky). But strangely enough, no nation wants Konigsberg after you've conquered it, including Prussia and Poland.
Synthesis on
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Kane Red RobeMaster of MagicArcanusRegistered Userregular
edited April 2010
Try Russia? Suggest that they can rename it if they absolutely must.
I just recieved a close defeat when I still had 40% of my forces left and the battle was even on the marker. WTF? Did that happen because the general I happened to be facing was Napoleon?
I never understood their end of battle "rankings". I've gotten heroic victory when I've barely scraped by and gotten close victory when I lost 6 men and they've lost 200.
I thought it was percentage of guys lost or something, but that never worked out either. So I'm pretty sure the computer bends over, pulls an adjective out of it's ass, and throws it infront of Victory or Defeat.
Try Russia? Suggest that they can rename it if they absolutely must.
Alas, Mikhail Kalinin will not be born for another 70 years, so what would you call it? Tsaritsyn? That already exists. Baltigrad?
Actually, I think it might be a glitch in the game. If I hold it few a few turns, let the city ripen, along with the trash and dead bodies, after I loot my 11,000 from it, and it'll be presentable again.
Also, has anyone else had the problem that the AI nations are rather incompetent and building up trade infrastructure? I'm not sure if its just a matter of funneling all their money to maintain disproportionately huge armies and they never build roads. I'm not even completely sure how you open up more ground trade areas...
I actually may hold off on taking Prussia until I can force them into a protectorate--there are some tricks for this apparently.
I'm still not sure how the diplomacy works. What's the point of protectorates? If you keep a place it helps you fight, protectorates never seem to get off their asses. Allies, too. I'm doing the coalition campaign as Britain, and I can't get Portugal to attack Spain, even though "Spain" at this point consists of a single shack up in the mountains defended by three cats and a man with a small knife. I've also turned France into a hellish patchwork of minor nations and rebel states. I think I might not bother anymore unless I'm playing against a human, the AI still can't keep up at all.
Protectorates exist purely to take up actual space (so that the AI will be slightly inconvenienced, and often prohibited by its own weird routines), and to give you money.
Protectorates automatically give you half their income (or positive balance, maybe?), and use the rest to maintain their own army, pay expenses, etc. So basically, free income.
Also, if you're like me, they make you feel good, and avoid making the map look like incoherent crap.
I'm Britain, I thought they wanted the map of Europe to look like incoherent crap.
PolloDiablo on
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Librarian's ghostLibrarian, Ghostbuster, and TimSporkRegistered Userregular
edited April 2010
Convincing Portugal to become a protectorate of England is surprisingly easy. Getting them to actually help you in Spain when they have a full stack army just sitting outside Lisbon is really hard.
I wish you could issue orders to protectorate armies. You wouldn't be able to decide what units were in the armies, and couldn't control them in a battle, but you'd be able to have them follow and support your own armies.
Britain has a large number of Portuguese troops fighting with them in the Peninsular Campaign.
I'm Britain, I thought they wanted the map of Europe to look like incoherent crap.
It may be just me, but having three French cities just sitting out in the middle of what will become Yugoslavia just feels...weird.
Apparently, protectorate status also relates to your relations with a nation. So basically, if you've beaten the crap out of a country and left it on its last leg, it will not like you. But if you want to make it a protectorate, you have to give it a lot of stuff to make it feel better. Arg.
Does anyone know what's more effective--gifts of money, or those "state gift" things?
Synthesis on
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Librarian's ghostLibrarian, Ghostbuster, and TimSporkRegistered Userregular
I'm Britain, I thought they wanted the map of Europe to look like incoherent crap.
It may be just me, but having three French cities just sitting out in the middle of what will become Yugoslavia just feels...weird.
Apparently, protectorate status also relates to your relations with a nation. So basically, if you've beaten the crap out of a country and left it on its last leg, it will not like you. But if you want to make it a protectorate, you have to give it a lot of stuff to make it feel better. Arg.
Does anyone know what's more effective--gifts of money, or those "state gift" things?
I believe only the state gifts actually change the way a country views you. Giving them money and tech does nothing. As Britain I got Spain to be friendly towards me through state gifts but not money. If you give them a state gift then hover over the country's name in the diplomacy menu it shows the effect.
Giving money and tech improves both opinion towards you, and makes the gifted nation better able to wage war.
For example, I usually funnel money into the Mughal Empire in Empire so that they can hold on to parts of India.
State gift increases opinion to a far greater degree than simply giving free money, however.
DisruptorX2 on
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Librarian's ghostLibrarian, Ghostbuster, and TimSporkRegistered Userregular
edited April 2010
I just want a mod that has France start with all of Spain, Portugal a protectorate of Britain, and a large French army outside Portugal with a good sized British army and Wellington in Lisbon.
I am playing M2:TW presently as SPain. Captured all of Iberian and some of North Africa. The Mongols are tearing it up in the east though. I have no cities or anything over there and am worried that they will become too strong. Am I boned?
Also, is there a trick to getting more family members outside of bribery? Is there a viagra for family members? (Ewww...)
How exactly are the mongols going to do anything to Spain other than sending really slow, infrequent armies at North Africa? I mean, unless you are Blitzing and already control Europe all the way to Constantinople.
How exactly are the mongols going to do anything to Spain other than sending really slow, infrequent armies at North Africa? I mean, unless you are Blitzing and already control Europe all the way to Constantinople.
I need 45 territories to win. I think that means I WILL bump heads with them, right? I mean, if I want to crush more non-Catholics, it means march east toward the Holy Land, which is where they'll be. I suppose I could crush all of Chrisendom, but even then I may face them as I reach Poland and Hungary.
Or am I way off on how far across Europe my 45 territories will take me?
The diplomatic AI is still completely retarded. "We have never been so insulted!" Why, Brittany, why? I was giving you all of France, in return for nothing. Is that such a horrible deal? Why do you hate being rich and powerful? I don't want to own land on the continent, I just want to give it all to puppet states. But nobody wants this shit. They're all happier with their shitty single province.
PolloDiablo on
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Handsome CostanzaAsk me about 8bitdoRIP Iwata-sanRegistered Userregular
edited April 2010
So I came up with a solution to my "oh fuck everyone hates me" problem. I attacked, in all directions. Austria agreed to a cease-fire after I took 3 of their major cities and offered a pretty stout donation (10,000 gold). I abandoned my Hessan territory and consolidated my elite forces (grenadiers and dragoons, plus several 12 pound artillery units) along the road to Berlin. This stopped about 4 repeated French assaults from Napoleon himself. Meanwhile on the eastern front I have captured city after Russian city. I feel I am on the verge of forcing a peace there as well. So far things are going well.
Not that I really had a choice in the matter. I had recruited such a large army that my pretty stout economy was beginning to collapse under the weight. Thing's are much more manageable when your getting 15k gold to loot a city.
EDIT: Update, I seem to have run into a bit of a predicament. Sweden declared war on me with open access to my mildly defended main city (Berlin). I am now being attacked on 4 sides. Winter has arrived and My Russian campaign must be halted to prevent total loss of my armies there. The cherry on top of this whole mess is that due to some shady AI battle maneuvering (the only 3 survivors of a battle all french artillery destroyed a large chunk of my troops using a weird glitch involving scatter shots) My western attack force now faces the battle of their lives in which they are outnumbered 2:1 by crack French troops. If I am defeated the door to my capital opens wide for Frenchy. If I win, It will literally break the back of their invasion force and I'll most likely get the peace and trade agreements I've been fighting so hard for. Here's hoping I get a nice hill to set up on. All I wanted was to be friends and have peace.
The diplomatic AI is still completely retarded. "We have never been so insulted!" Why, Brittany, why? I was giving you all of France, in return for nothing. Is that such a horrible deal? Why do you hate being rich and powerful? I don't want to own land on the continent, I just want to give it all to puppet states. But nobody wants this shit. They're all happier with their shitty single province.
Well honestly I don't think I would want France either. I mean its France.
But yes the diplomatic AI leaves something to be desired.
Apostate on
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JacobkoshGamble a stamp.I can show you how to be a real man!Moderatormod
edited April 2010
Guys, I'm reinstalling Rome for the first time in a few years and I was wondering what some good mods were. Basically I'm looking for stuff that improves the main campaign without getting too wacky or adding a bunch of gameplay features - like, I don't want to play as cavemen or Lord of the Rings or something, I'd just like anything that gets units to work more as intended, maybe improves the AI, et cetera. Is there anything out there that fits that bill?
I just started a World Domination campaign as the Prussians. I am currently building up my trade economy while simultaneously liberating the small nations around me. Is there a particular advantage to making these countries protectorates, as opposed to annexing them? So far Saxony won't do a damn thing I've asked of them. I'm about to give up and invade again.
Doesn't help that both Austria, France, and Russia just declared war on me. I don't even know what I did wrong. maybe it was conquering the Hessan's in 3 turns. I dunno.
Why, nothing. Just give it about, oh, 7 years or so. Same thing happened to me when I WTF p0wned Saxony.
Okay, assuming it's not already common knowledge...
Synthesis' Guide to Makin' Protectorates
I've found what appears to be a foolproof method to make protectorates out of nearly-defeated enemies. It's not easy, but at least it's straightforward and leaves little to mystery.
1. Reduce your target nation to a single territory--ideally their capital. It may not work otherwise (or, depending on the territory, it may result in an entirely different protectorate).
2. Conquer the city, and you should get the 'Liberate' option. The resulting protectorate will have the same name and form of government as the state you just destroyed.
It's a lot less frustrating then trying to convince through the diplomacy options. So far, I've made both Austria and Prussia my protectorates. I've slowly been transferring their old captured territories back to them (you have to wait a few turns before they'll accept a captured territory, for some reason), meaning Austria, Hungary, and Poland are all fairly powerful strong for protectorates, and are actually effectively buffering Russia.
Also, with the exception of establishing trade routes, they do a decent job of taking care of themselves (and you get worry-free money from them).
Is Medieval 2: Total War worth picking up for 20$?
How is it in comparison to, say, Empire?
Would it be better to just go for Napoleon: TW for 40$?
M2:TW is better than Empire by most conceptions. Much more stable engine. Detailed merchant system. Diplomacy is some of the best in the series since the Diplomacy AI and the military AI seem to talk some. Like, I noticed an enemy became more resistant to my negotiations and stuff over a decade or so as they built up military power. Suddenly, they declared war, so they obviously were plotting. That said, there will be times it will come from left field.
Assuming you're talking about the gold pack which includes Kingdoms, it will also give you access to some fantastic mods such as Stainless Steel and Third Age. Definitely a much better deal.
Assuming you're talking about the gold pack which includes Kingdoms, it will also give you access to some fantastic mods such as Stainless Steel and Third Age. Definitely a much better deal.
You can play Stainless Steel version 4.1 without Kingdoms.
Is Medieval 2: Total War worth picking up for 20$?
How is it in comparison to, say, Empire?
Would it be better to just go for Napoleon: TW for 40$?
I'd pick up N:TW before picking up Empire. Perhaps even Medieval 2, depending on your interest in the setting and how much you might enjoy naval battles.
Don't ever buy Empire. Jesus christ, people. Medieval is definitely worth the $20, though. Napoleon isn't bad, either, I probably like it more than Medieval 2.
I think I found the best faction to play as for a really challenging game. Been playing as Persia, and its really hard on normal. The Ottomans and the Marathi allied against me, and both can shut down my trade rather easily, been bankrupt twice already. One of the worst unit rosters in the game also handicaps the player (no units capable of forming squares, no units capable of fire by rank. Hell, no units with Bayonets). By 1740, I've taken 2 Indian and 2 Ottoman provinces only, spending nearly all my money to keep what I have. The Marathi even sent a naval invasion of Persia, which forced me to temporarily abandon Baghdad in order to actually defend my capital. Capturing my mission objectives (basically all of the Ottoman Empire and most of India) will be quite challenging.
One nice thing is that Dagestan, my only ally, cut a chunk out of Russia, ensuring that I only have a two front war, not a 3 front.
This game really needs a way to force people to make peace with your protectorates. I want to set up puppet states, but each time I do, its neighbor up and declares war on it. Then I have to go conquer that neighbor, because otherwise they'll be eternally at war with my little guy. So then I form a new puppet from the wreck of that nation, and the cycle repeats with the next country to the East. They really shouldn't even bother with diplomacy in this game.
This game really needs a way to force people to make peace with your protectorates. I want to set up puppet states, but each time I do, its neighbor up and declares war on it. Then I have to go conquer that neighbor, because otherwise they'll be eternally at war with my little guy. So then I form a new puppet from the wreck of that nation, and the cycle repeats with the next country to the East. They really shouldn't even bother with diplomacy in this game.
Yeah, this is annoying in N:TW. I ended up making peace with Prussia about 8 times. I'm not joking. Two thirds of those times, Prussia revoked the peace the next goddamn turn (at least I got some good technology out of it). And even when they didn't, Saxony was still at war with Prussia (I ended up re-liberating Saxony), so I had no damn choice but to declare war on Prussia again to secure the territory for a protectorate.
Just finished the short Prussian campaign for E:TW. Was generally satisfied by the diplomatic AI. It occasionally did some strange things (for about 20 years straight the Barbary pirates offered me a peace treaty every turn) but there did not seem to be any "by turn X everyone attack the player" kind of thing. Towards the end of the game there were two large major allied factions facing offagainst each other. Although earlier in the campaign I saw some allies desert each other. I have to say it is kind of funny when a country attacks you with both of you having allies and yours stick with you and his leave him in the ditch.
The battle AI is all over the place. Sometimes it was surprisingly savy and took up smart positions and I took a good pounding breaking him. Of course many other times it did some crazy stupid stuff and would get whole units chewed up in dumb maneuvers.
Maybe it's because I chose the short campaign but there doesn't seem to be a lot of unit variety. Or at least much that is useful. I mean there is hardly any reason to buy militia as they are only a little less expensive than a line unit and can't do all the good stuff. The cavalry doesn't seem like they have a lot of differences either, regardless of whether they are light or heavy. i noticed the heavy cavarly is a little slower and seems to get winded faster, but they both seem to hit about the same.
I was wondering what a good mod is for E:TW? I was looking at the Darth mod or Imperial Splendor. Any recomendations between those two or other?
I haven't played DarthMod since its very, very early days but I found Imperial Splendor to be pretty good and adds some interesting variety. Russian artillery, for example, is hilariously good.
Posts
Doesn't help that both Austria, France, and Russia just declared war on me. I don't even know what I did wrong. maybe it was conquering the Hessan's in 3 turns. I dunno.
Resident 8bitdo expert.
Resident hybrid/flap cover expert.
Rather do that then engage in a godawful counter-insurgency. I haven't completely ruled out turning Prussia into a protectorate--it's just near impossible to force an actual power into becoming a protectorate, even with the threat of war. Which is why protectorates always seem to be small city-states instead.
I may end up forcing a state into a protectorate, and then giving them several cities just to resemble a half-decent protectorate.
Protectorates are primarily useful when you already possess large numbers of cities, and the area in question is far away (like Warsaw for France).
Resident 8bitdo expert.
Resident hybrid/flap cover expert.
So far, my plan to create two three strong protectorates--Austria, Hungary, and Poland--with multiple regions each seems to be working. Poland will get Lemberg as well as Warsaw, Hungary will get Translyvania, and Austria will get the area bordering north Italy. This'll supply some decent income, some potential trade partners, and very importantly, enemies to distract Russia.
One slight problem...to end the war with Prussia, you need to take Konigsberg (technically after you've held both Berlin and Warsaw, though the game isn't picky). But strangely enough, no nation wants Konigsberg after you've conquered it, including Prussia and Poland.
I never understood their end of battle "rankings". I've gotten heroic victory when I've barely scraped by and gotten close victory when I lost 6 men and they've lost 200.
I thought it was percentage of guys lost or something, but that never worked out either. So I'm pretty sure the computer bends over, pulls an adjective out of it's ass, and throws it infront of Victory or Defeat.
Alas, Mikhail Kalinin will not be born for another 70 years, so what would you call it? Tsaritsyn? That already exists. Baltigrad?
Actually, I think it might be a glitch in the game. If I hold it few a few turns, let the city ripen, along with the trash and dead bodies, after I loot my 11,000 from it, and it'll be presentable again.
Also, has anyone else had the problem that the AI nations are rather incompetent and building up trade infrastructure? I'm not sure if its just a matter of funneling all their money to maintain disproportionately huge armies and they never build roads. I'm not even completely sure how you open up more ground trade areas...
I actually may hold off on taking Prussia until I can force them into a protectorate--there are some tricks for this apparently.
Protectorates automatically give you half their income (or positive balance, maybe?), and use the rest to maintain their own army, pay expenses, etc. So basically, free income.
Also, if you're like me, they make you feel good, and avoid making the map look like incoherent crap.
I wish you could issue orders to protectorate armies. You wouldn't be able to decide what units were in the armies, and couldn't control them in a battle, but you'd be able to have them follow and support your own armies.
Britain has a large number of Portuguese troops fighting with them in the Peninsular Campaign.
It may be just me, but having three French cities just sitting out in the middle of what will become Yugoslavia just feels...weird.
Apparently, protectorate status also relates to your relations with a nation. So basically, if you've beaten the crap out of a country and left it on its last leg, it will not like you. But if you want to make it a protectorate, you have to give it a lot of stuff to make it feel better. Arg.
Does anyone know what's more effective--gifts of money, or those "state gift" things?
I believe only the state gifts actually change the way a country views you. Giving them money and tech does nothing. As Britain I got Spain to be friendly towards me through state gifts but not money. If you give them a state gift then hover over the country's name in the diplomacy menu it shows the effect.
For example, I usually funnel money into the Mughal Empire in Empire so that they can hold on to parts of India.
State gift increases opinion to a far greater degree than simply giving free money, however.
I am playing M2:TW presently as SPain. Captured all of Iberian and some of North Africa. The Mongols are tearing it up in the east though. I have no cities or anything over there and am worried that they will become too strong. Am I boned?
Also, is there a trick to getting more family members outside of bribery? Is there a viagra for family members? (Ewww...)
I need 45 territories to win. I think that means I WILL bump heads with them, right? I mean, if I want to crush more non-Catholics, it means march east toward the Holy Land, which is where they'll be. I suppose I could crush all of Chrisendom, but even then I may face them as I reach Poland and Hungary.
Or am I way off on how far across Europe my 45 territories will take me?
Not that I really had a choice in the matter. I had recruited such a large army that my pretty stout economy was beginning to collapse under the weight. Thing's are much more manageable when your getting 15k gold to loot a city.
EDIT: Update, I seem to have run into a bit of a predicament. Sweden declared war on me with open access to my mildly defended main city (Berlin). I am now being attacked on 4 sides. Winter has arrived and My Russian campaign must be halted to prevent total loss of my armies there. The cherry on top of this whole mess is that due to some shady AI battle maneuvering (the only 3 survivors of a battle all french artillery destroyed a large chunk of my troops using a weird glitch involving scatter shots) My western attack force now faces the battle of their lives in which they are outnumbered 2:1 by crack French troops. If I am defeated the door to my capital opens wide for Frenchy. If I win, It will literally break the back of their invasion force and I'll most likely get the peace and trade agreements I've been fighting so hard for. Here's hoping I get a nice hill to set up on. All I wanted was to be friends and have peace.
Peace through blood.
Resident 8bitdo expert.
Resident hybrid/flap cover expert.
But yes the diplomatic AI leaves something to be desired.
Why, nothing. Just give it about, oh, 7 years or so. Same thing happened to me when I WTF p0wned Saxony.
Margaret Thatcher
Synthesis' Guide to Makin' Protectorates
I've found what appears to be a foolproof method to make protectorates out of nearly-defeated enemies. It's not easy, but at least it's straightforward and leaves little to mystery.
1. Reduce your target nation to a single territory--ideally their capital. It may not work otherwise (or, depending on the territory, it may result in an entirely different protectorate).
2. Conquer the city, and you should get the 'Liberate' option. The resulting protectorate will have the same name and form of government as the state you just destroyed.
It's a lot less frustrating then trying to convince through the diplomacy options. So far, I've made both Austria and Prussia my protectorates. I've slowly been transferring their old captured territories back to them (you have to wait a few turns before they'll accept a captured territory, for some reason), meaning Austria, Hungary, and Poland are all fairly powerful strong for protectorates, and are actually effectively buffering Russia.
Also, with the exception of establishing trade routes, they do a decent job of taking care of themselves (and you get worry-free money from them).
How is it in comparison to, say, Empire?
Would it be better to just go for Napoleon: TW for 40$?
M2:TW is better than Empire by most conceptions. Much more stable engine. Detailed merchant system. Diplomacy is some of the best in the series since the Diplomacy AI and the military AI seem to talk some. Like, I noticed an enemy became more resistant to my negotiations and stuff over a decade or so as they built up military power. Suddenly, they declared war, so they obviously were plotting. That said, there will be times it will come from left field.
You can play Stainless Steel version 4.1 without Kingdoms.
5.1 and 6.1 are for Kingdoms.
I hate TW players.
I'd pick up N:TW before picking up Empire. Perhaps even Medieval 2, depending on your interest in the setting and how much you might enjoy naval battles.
One nice thing is that Dagestan, my only ally, cut a chunk out of Russia, ensuring that I only have a two front war, not a 3 front.
Yeah, this is annoying in N:TW. I ended up making peace with Prussia about 8 times. I'm not joking. Two thirds of those times, Prussia revoked the peace the next goddamn turn (at least I got some good technology out of it). And even when they didn't, Saxony was still at war with Prussia (I ended up re-liberating Saxony), so I had no damn choice but to declare war on Prussia again to secure the territory for a protectorate.
The answer was to make Prussia protectorate.
The battle AI is all over the place. Sometimes it was surprisingly savy and took up smart positions and I took a good pounding breaking him. Of course many other times it did some crazy stupid stuff and would get whole units chewed up in dumb maneuvers.
Maybe it's because I chose the short campaign but there doesn't seem to be a lot of unit variety. Or at least much that is useful. I mean there is hardly any reason to buy militia as they are only a little less expensive than a line unit and can't do all the good stuff. The cavalry doesn't seem like they have a lot of differences either, regardless of whether they are light or heavy. i noticed the heavy cavarly is a little slower and seems to get winded faster, but they both seem to hit about the same.
I was wondering what a good mod is for E:TW? I was looking at the Darth mod or Imperial Splendor. Any recomendations between those two or other?