As was foretold, we've added advertisements to the forums! If you have questions, or if you encounter any bugs, please visit this thread: https://forums.penny-arcade.com/discussion/240191/forum-advertisement-faq-and-reports-thread/
Options

Have We Found The Cure For Racism?

RentRent I'm always rightFuckin' deal with itRegistered User regular
edited April 2010 in Debate and/or Discourse
Individuals with Rare Disorder Have No Racial Biases
Never has a human population been found that has no racial stereotypes. Not in other cultures or far-flung countries. Nor among tiny tots or people with various psychological conditions.
Until now.
Children with Williams syndrome, a rare genetic disorder that makes them lack normal social anxiety, have no racial biases. They do, however, traffic in gender stereotypes, said study researcher Andreas Meyer-Lindenberg of the University of Heidelberg in Germany.
Normally, children show clear preferences for their own ethnic group by the age of three, if not sooner, other research has shown.
And, indeed, the children in this study without Williams syndrome reliably assigned good traits, such as friendliness, to pictures of people the same race as themselves. When asked something negative, such as "which is the naughty boy," they overwhelmingly pointed to the other race.
Children with Williams syndrome, however, were equally likely to point to the white or black child as naughty or friendly.
While this study was done with white children, other research has shown that blacks and people of other races also think more highly of their own, Meyer-Lindenberg told LiveScience.
Williams syndrome is caused by a gene deletion known to affect the brain as well as other organs. As a result, people with Williams syndrome are "hypersocial," Meyer-Lindenberg told . They do not experience the jitters and inhibitions the rest of us feel.
"The whole concept [of social anxiety] would be foreign to them," he said.
They will put themselves at great peril to help someone and despite their skills at empathy, are unable to process social danger signals. As a result, they are at increased risk for rape and physical attack.
Nature or nurture?
While the first human population to demonstrate race-neutrality is missing critical genes, "we are not saying that this is all biologically-based and you can't do anything about it," Meyer-Lindenberg said.
"Just because there is a genetic way to knock the system out, does not mean the system itself is 100 percent genetic," he said.
The study does show, however, that racism requires social fear. "If social fear was culturally reduced, racial stereotypes could also be reduced," Meyer-Lindenberg said.
Despite their lack of racial bias, children with Williams syndrome hold gender stereotypes just as strongly as normal children, the study found. That is, 99 percent of the 40 children studied pointed to pictures of girls when asked who played with dolls and chose boys when asked, say, who likes toy cars.
The fact that Williams syndrome kids think of men and women differently, but not blacks and whites, shows that sex stereotypes are not caused by social anxiety, Meyer-Lindenberg said.
This may be because we learn about gender within "safe" home environments, while a different race is usually a sign of someone outside our immediate kin. (Studies to test this explanation, such as with racially-mixed families, have not yet been done.)
Racial biases are likely rooted in a general fear of others, while gender stereotypes may arise from sweeping generalizations, Meyer-Lindenberg said. "You watch mother make the meals, so you generalize this to everyone female."
In their heads
Due to the present study, we now know that "gender and race are processed by different brain mechanisms," Meyer-Lindenberg said, although those involved in gender are less understood.
Previous work has shown that in the brains of people with Williams syndrome, the amygdala - the emotional seat of the brain - fails to respond to social threats. While the amygdala itself is functionally normal, it is misguided by the pre-frontal cortex - the executive of the brain - to block all social anxiety.
This system is now thought to underlie racism, but it seems uninvolved in the formation of sex stereotypes.
Meyer-Lindenberg and colleagues are now using brain imaging to get a clearer picture of how racism and sexism are differentiated in the brain. The present study was published in the journal Current Biology.

Obviously this isn't 100% foolproof, but it raises some interesting hypotheticals:

1. If racism is indeed genetic, do we, as a race, have an obligation to cure it? Further, to use the slippery slope arguement, if we are able to literally eradicate racism from the planet, should we treat other perceived genetic 'illnesses' in the same manner?

2. If racism is indeed genetic, how accountable for their actions are racists? Indeed, to most sane (Texas nonwithstanding) people, the mentally retarded are not accountable for the actions they commit. Can, or should, racist/hate crimes be given the same treatment?

3. If racism is indeed genetic, but the only known way to 'cure' it is by eliminating genes, can or should we use this as punishment to people who commit hate/racist crimes? (This of course assumes gene modification becomes a reality). One could argue we already use this as a punishment to serial rapists; should serial haters be treated the same?

4. Is racism a bad thing? By this I mean, if assuming racism is genetic, one could naturally assume that racism was developed as an evolutionary defense mechanism against perceived outsiders. Should we be fucking with millions of years of evolutionary development?

Personally, I think that racism is one of society's greatest ills, and the possible dangerousness of playing God/fucking with shit that should not be fucked with would be worth the extermination of one of the biggest causes of death of all time. Personally, I'm excited that racism could potentially be cured; could this pave the way to a true utopian society? Only time will tell.

Discuss!

Rent on
«1

Posts

  • Options
    StericaSterica Yes Registered User, Moderator mod
    edited April 2010
    A pill for racism seems like such a hollow victory.

    Sterica on
    YL9WnCY.png
  • Options
    TerrendosTerrendos Decorative Monocle Registered User regular
    edited April 2010
    I think you're taking a pretty big leap here, to put it lightly.

    Racism isn't completely genetic, or else we'd all be racists except for those people with this disease. It may begin like that, but in adults it's going to be as much a pattern of learned behavior as it would be a remnant of our genetic disposition. As such, removing "the racism gene" would do little to nothing to help someone who is already racist.

    Terrendos on
  • Options
    StericaSterica Yes Registered User, Moderator mod
    edited April 2010
    Not to mention that it isn't a bullet JUST for racism. Can we target behavior that specifically?

    Even if it did come from evolution (I dunno, that sounds a bit Lamarckian), evolution is a neutral thing that is uncaring of our society. So that certainly shouldn't hold us back.

    Sterica on
    YL9WnCY.png
  • Options
    shrykeshryke Member of the Beast Registered User regular
    edited April 2010
    It doesn't so much say "Racism is genetic", as it says that Racism is rooted to some extent in social anxiety (however they are defining that for this study and this condition). It's not like you flick a switch and someone becomes not racist. This syndrome simply seems to be inhibiting humans natural tendencies to categorize people into groups and then prefer their own group over the others groups.

    Beyond that, what are the consequences of essentially deleting social anxiety from the human race?

    A quick read up on Williams Syndrome says this may not be the wonder-drug for our times.

    shryke on
  • Options
    DisruptedCapitalistDisruptedCapitalist I swear! Registered User regular
    edited April 2010
    Besides, I'm not giving up my hatred of the Yankees. I'll still group myself into one category, and all Yankees fans into another category.

    Because I'm just that kind of guy. (A Red Sox fan.)

    DisruptedCapitalist on
    "Simple, real stupidity beats artificial intelligence every time." -Mustrum Ridcully in Terry Pratchett's Hogfather p. 142 (HarperPrism 1996)
  • Options
    Captain CarrotCaptain Carrot Alexandria, VARegistered User regular
    edited April 2010
    shryke wrote: »
    A quick read up on Williams Syndrome says this may not be the wonder-drug for our times.

    Inducing the syndrome itself, no, but perhaps that particular symptom can be isolated.

    Captain Carrot on
  • Options
    Pi-r8Pi-r8 Registered User regular
    edited April 2010
    I'm skeptical that asking 3 year olds to point to dolls really proves anything conclusive about what their racial biases will be for the rest of their life.

    Pi-r8 on
  • Options
    ShivahnShivahn Unaware of her barrel shifter privilege Western coastal temptressRegistered User, Moderator mod
    edited April 2010
    shryke wrote: »
    A quick read up on Williams Syndrome says this may not be the wonder-drug for our times.

    Inducing the syndrome itself, no, but perhaps that particular symptom can be isolated.

    Biology doesn't really work that way. It's likely that all the effects of the syndrome are intertwined, and caused by the same root.

    Shivahn on
  • Options
    Captain CarrotCaptain Carrot Alexandria, VARegistered User regular
    edited April 2010
    Shivahn wrote: »
    shryke wrote: »
    A quick read up on Williams Syndrome says this may not be the wonder-drug for our times.

    Inducing the syndrome itself, no, but perhaps that particular symptom can be isolated.

    Biology doesn't really work that way. It's likely that all the effects of the syndrome are intertwined, and caused by the same root.

    Yeah, I know, but still, one can hope.

    Captain Carrot on
  • Options
    monikermoniker Registered User regular
    edited April 2010
    Pi-r8 wrote: »
    I'm skeptical that asking 3 year olds to point to dolls really proves anything conclusive about what their racial biases will be for the rest of their life.

    I don't think that's what the researchers were suggesting.

    moniker on
  • Options
    DrezDrez Registered User regular
    edited April 2010
    Shivahn wrote: »
    shryke wrote: »
    A quick read up on Williams Syndrome says this may not be the wonder-drug for our times.

    Inducing the syndrome itself, no, but perhaps that particular symptom can be isolated.

    Biology doesn't really work that way. It's likely that all the effects of the syndrome are intertwined, and caused by the same root.

    Yeah, I know, but still, one can hope.

    So you would support genetic manipulation for the purpose of psychological censorship?

    I'm not saying racism is a good thing, but intentionally introducing a genetic defect into everyone's DNA is not the right way to eradicate it.

    Drez on
    Switch: SW-7690-2320-9238Steam/PSN/Xbox: Drezdar
  • Options
    PelPel Registered User regular
    edited April 2010
    Williams doesn't cure racism, it "cures" social anxiety, removing our natural social defense mechanisms: one of which, I assume, is the classification of individuals into easily distinguished groups. These defense mechanisms may backfire on us or others quite frequently but "curing" racism, if it were even possible, by interfering with the natural operation of the brain sounds pretty morbid. Hopefully this insight can help us to understand racism and the inner working of the mind that cause it more completely, however.

    Pel on
  • Options
    TicaldfjamTicaldfjam Snoqualmie, WARegistered User regular
    edited April 2010
    There will be no cure for Racism ever. The same applies to Murder, Rape, War, Torture, etc..

    Humans, by our very nature, are animal in instinct and by nature, inherently evil. As long as humanity exist, so will the vices, like racism, remain as well.

    This “so-called” cure for racisim is basically another fallacy in a"Unicorns and Rainbows" world and not realistic at all.

    Not to excuse Racism, but people need to be realist and stop letting things bother them so much (get thicker skin.). One person cannot control the majority of humanity's behaviors.

    Ticaldfjam on
  • Options
    CouscousCouscous Registered User regular
    edited April 2010
    God bless the required cynic who blames everything on instinct. Humanity is much more complicated than that. If racism is based on social anxiety as a result of meeting new and different looking people, it should be possible to prevent this by socializing them at a very early age with people of different races.

    Couscous on
  • Options
    Loren MichaelLoren Michael Registered User regular
    edited April 2010
    Couscous wrote: »
    God bless the required cynic who blames everything on instinct. Humanity is much more complicated than that. If racism is based on social anxiety as a result of meeting new and different looking people, it should be possible to prevent this by socializing them at a very early age with people of different races.

    I think I heard somewhere that that actually works, socializing at an early age.

    Instinct is the thing all the social stuff gets filtered through though, so... it's not like it's going to be instinct to the exclusion of the environment, but instinct could play a pretty big part.

    Loren Michael on
    a7iea7nzewtq.jpg
  • Options
    PelPel Registered User regular
    edited April 2010
    Couscous wrote: »
    God bless the required cynic who blames everything on instinct. Humanity is much more complicated than that. If racism is based on social anxiety as a result of meeting new and different looking people, it should be possible to prevent this by socializing them at a very early age with people of different races.

    I'm not saying that racism is entirely biological, however, I think you are misplacing the biological drive that contributes to racism. It isn't as much fear of new and different looking people, it is the lazy, instinctive stereotyping that classifies everyone you meet into groups based only on available, limited, information. Socialization helps to break these groups along more advanced and sensible delineations, but it doesn't eliminate the basic drive to classify.

    Pel on
  • Options
    shrykeshryke Member of the Beast Registered User regular
    edited April 2010
    moniker wrote: »
    Pi-r8 wrote: »
    I'm skeptical that asking 3 year olds to point to dolls really proves anything conclusive about what their racial biases will be for the rest of their life.

    I don't think that's what the researchers were suggesting.

    No, the far more interesting suggestion here is not about RACIAL bias, but about GENDER bias.

    Basically, we know from previous research that racial bias is fairly .... instinctual. Children don't need to be taught to divide people into groups based on appearance. This seems to suggest that gender bias, though, isn't.

    shryke on
  • Options
    monikermoniker Registered User regular
    edited April 2010
    shryke wrote: »
    moniker wrote: »
    Pi-r8 wrote: »
    I'm skeptical that asking 3 year olds to point to dolls really proves anything conclusive about what their racial biases will be for the rest of their life.

    I don't think that's what the researchers were suggesting.

    No, the far more interesting suggestion here is not about RACIAL bias, but about GENDER bias.

    Basically, we know from previous research that racial bias is fairly .... instinctual. Children don't need to be taught to divide people into groups based on appearance. This seems to suggest that gender bias, though, isn't.

    Yeah, that stood out pretty starkly for me too. You would have guessed that being 'immune' to social anxiety or whatever would have a universal application across disparate types of people but apparently not. Interesting stuff.

    moniker on
  • Options
    shrykeshryke Member of the Beast Registered User regular
    edited April 2010
    moniker wrote: »
    shryke wrote: »
    moniker wrote: »
    Pi-r8 wrote: »
    I'm skeptical that asking 3 year olds to point to dolls really proves anything conclusive about what their racial biases will be for the rest of their life.

    I don't think that's what the researchers were suggesting.

    No, the far more interesting suggestion here is not about RACIAL bias, but about GENDER bias.

    Basically, we know from previous research that racial bias is fairly .... instinctual. Children don't need to be taught to divide people into groups based on appearance. This seems to suggest that gender bias, though, isn't.

    Yeah, that stood out pretty starkly for me too. You would have guessed that being 'immune' to social anxiety or whatever would have a universal application across disparate types of people but apparently not. Interesting stuff.

    Maybe I'm talking out of my ass here, but it kind of makes sense.

    Gender itself is a social construct after all. And if gender bias is basically stereotyping people based on those social constructs, it seems to me that gender bias itself would then be a purely social construct.

    I mean, gender is practically defined by gender roles is it not? And those gender roles are taught.

    shryke on
  • Options
    Kitten_MoonKitten_Moon Registered User regular
    edited April 2010
    Well, my parents are from Nigeria. It's about 90% black. There's an exploding Chinese and Hindu Indian population for some reason. But for the most part, there is very little racism. However, there is still discrimination between religions (Islam and Christianity) and ethnic groups.

    Basically there is no cure. If there were only white people, one group will find a way to differentiate themselves from the rest and claim they are more superior. Like the English of Great Britain or the Brahmans of India.

    I think people just need to learn how to be more tolerant. The youth are much more tolerant then our parents were.

    Kitten_Moon on
  • Options
    SynthesisSynthesis Honda Today! Registered User regular
    edited April 2010
    Well, my parents are from Nigeria. It's about 90% black. There's an exploding Chinese and Hindu Indian population for some reason. But for the most part, there is very little racism. However, there is still discrimination between religions (Islam and Christianity) and ethnic groups.

    Out of curiosity, so, racism isn't directed towards the Chinese and Indian minorities because they're Indian and Chinese, but rather, because they're much less likely to be Muslim or Christian?

    Synthesis on
  • Options
    GoodOmensGoodOmens Registered User regular
    edited April 2010
    The really interesting question is, can people with Williams be taught to be racist? That is, are they simply lacking a "natural" tendency toward it, or are they, for lack of a better term, immune to being racist? That could tell us some very interesting things about how racism differs from gender discrimination and so forth.

    Of course, I have no clue how such a thing could be done with regard to any ethical considerations.

    GoodOmens on
    steam_sig.png
    IOS Game Center ID: Isotope-X
  • Options
    SamSam Registered User regular
    edited April 2010
    Well, my parents are from Nigeria. It's about 90% black. There's an exploding Chinese and Hindu Indian population for some reason. But for the most part, there is very little racism. However, there is still discrimination between religions (Islam and Christianity) and ethnic groups.

    Basically there is no cure. If there were only white people, one group will find a way to differentiate themselves from the rest and claim they are more superior. Like the English of Great Britain or the Brahmans of India.

    I think people just need to learn how to be more tolerant. The youth are much more tolerant then our parents were.

    isn't there some degree of animosity between the different indigenous ethnic groups in Nigeria? I guess those would be along religious lines as well.

    Sam on
  • Options
    KlykaKlyka DO you have any SPARE BATTERIES?Registered User regular
    edited April 2010
    "Oh shit. Oh god dammit, I forgot to take my Anti-Racist pills. Oh no....oh no here it....here it coooooomes: NI-" You have been banned from the server (of life)

    Klyka on
    SC2 EU ID Klyka.110
    lTDyp.jpg
  • Options
    ueanuean Registered User regular
    edited April 2010
    Pi-r8 wrote: »
    I'm skeptical that asking 3 year olds to point to dolls really proves anything conclusive about what their racial biases will be for the rest of their life.

    Ding ding ding.

    That "study" sounds pretty stupid. Can identify race, that's one thing. Inherently racist, that's a whole other can.

    edit - what does it mean if the question is "where did that bad man touch you?" and the white child points to the black child's privates?

    uean on
    Guys? Hay guys?
    PSN - sumowot
  • Options
    The CatThe Cat Registered User, ClubPA regular
    edited April 2010
    ...everyone seems to be missing the part where Williams makes its sufferers much more likely to get themselves harmed or killed though being overly trusting and friendly.

    The Cat on
    tmsig.jpg
  • Options
    ElitistbElitistb Registered User regular
    edited April 2010
    Hmm. Gene therapy to induce this condition, and I have potentially useful pawns for my island fortress.

    Elitistb on
    steam_sig.png
  • Options
    RUNN1NGMANRUNN1NGMAN Registered User regular
    edited April 2010
    This doesn't mean racism is genetic--all it means is that children with a genetic defect that prevents them from feeling social anxiety don't show a bias with regard to race.

    Saying that this defect is a cure for racism is like saying blindness is a cure for racism.

    RUNN1NGMAN on
  • Options
    KageraKagera Imitating the worst people. Since 2004Registered User regular
    edited April 2010
    The Cat wrote: »
    ...everyone seems to be missing the part where Williams makes its sufferers much more likely to get themselves harmed or killed though being overly trusting and friendly.

    I won't be surprised if someone begins trying to find some way to make a form of 'this'll get you laid!' scheme.

    Kagera on
    My neck, my back, my FUPA and my crack.
  • Options
    RUNN1NGMANRUNN1NGMAN Registered User regular
    edited April 2010
    Couscous wrote: »
    God bless the required cynic who blames everything on instinct. Humanity is much more complicated than that. If racism is based on social anxiety as a result of meeting new and different looking people, it should be possible to prevent this by socializing them at a very early age with people of different races.

    There's a good chapter in Nurtureshock on all of this. It's pretty fascinating. I'm not going to go into all the details, but essentially they said that it's natural for young kids to form positive inferences about people who look like them, and negative inferences about people who don't. This actually has nothing to do with race, per se. One study gave one half of a class red shirts, and one half blue shirts. They wore the shirts every day. Even though the kids still played together and had positive reactions with the opposite color, when asked questions about which color shirts are smarter/better at a game/etc. they usually said that it was their color. They would also say things like "Blue is good at math, but not as good as red." It's a lot more complicated than just saying "Kids are racist!"

    RUNN1NGMAN on
  • Options
    LoklarLoklar Registered User regular
    edited April 2010
    The idea of using this to "cure racism" is some sort of Huxley-Nightmare scenario. It also wouldn't work. Social anxiety keeps me safe. It also keeps me in the corner at parties, but that's another story.

    Our goal should be to convince people that racism is stupid through the power of reasoned argument.

    Loklar on
  • Options
    DisruptedCapitalistDisruptedCapitalist I swear! Registered User regular
    edited April 2010
    Loklar wrote: »
    The idea of using this to "cure racism" is some sort of Huxley-Nightmare scenario. It also wouldn't work. Social anxiety keeps me safe. It also keeps me in the corner at parties, but that's another story.

    Our goal should be to convince people that racism is stupid through the power of reasoned argument.

    That's the problem right there. You're assuming that rational debate can solve irrational problems. Sadly though, mental and social illnesses are not cured by reasoned arguments. (Just look at the Tea Parties.)

    DisruptedCapitalist on
    "Simple, real stupidity beats artificial intelligence every time." -Mustrum Ridcully in Terry Pratchett's Hogfather p. 142 (HarperPrism 1996)
  • Options
    Pi-r8Pi-r8 Registered User regular
    edited April 2010
    RUNN1NGMAN wrote: »
    Couscous wrote: »
    God bless the required cynic who blames everything on instinct. Humanity is much more complicated than that. If racism is based on social anxiety as a result of meeting new and different looking people, it should be possible to prevent this by socializing them at a very early age with people of different races.

    There's a good chapter in Nurtureshock on all of this. It's pretty fascinating. I'm not going to go into all the details, but essentially they said that it's natural for young kids to form positive inferences about people who look like them, and negative inferences about people who don't. This actually has nothing to do with race, per se. One study gave one half of a class red shirts, and one half blue shirts. They wore the shirts every day. Even though the kids still played together and had positive reactions with the opposite color, when asked questions about which color shirts are smarter/better at a game/etc. they usually said that it was their color. They would also say things like "Blue is good at math, but not as good as red." It's a lot more complicated than just saying "Kids are racist!"

    But what about the numerous examples where black children still show a bias against other black kids and in favor of white kids? And this happens with people of other races too. It's not just a simple matter of "choosing people the same as you".

    Pi-r8 on
  • Options
    syndalissyndalis Getting Classy On the WallRegistered User, Loves Apple Products regular
    edited April 2010
    Pi-r8 wrote: »
    RUNN1NGMAN wrote: »
    Couscous wrote: »
    God bless the required cynic who blames everything on instinct. Humanity is much more complicated than that. If racism is based on social anxiety as a result of meeting new and different looking people, it should be possible to prevent this by socializing them at a very early age with people of different races.

    There's a good chapter in Nurtureshock on all of this. It's pretty fascinating. I'm not going to go into all the details, but essentially they said that it's natural for young kids to form positive inferences about people who look like them, and negative inferences about people who don't. This actually has nothing to do with race, per se. One study gave one half of a class red shirts, and one half blue shirts. They wore the shirts every day. Even though the kids still played together and had positive reactions with the opposite color, when asked questions about which color shirts are smarter/better at a game/etc. they usually said that it was their color. They would also say things like "Blue is good at math, but not as good as red." It's a lot more complicated than just saying "Kids are racist!"

    But what about the numerous examples where black children still show a bias against other black kids and in favor of white kids? And this happens with people of other races too. It's not just a simple matter of "choosing people the same as you".
    well, they are probably picking the white kid because short of dora and a handful of others, white-looking folks dominate children's television.

    syndalis on
    SW-4158-3990-6116
    Let's play Mario Kart or something...
  • Options
    RUNN1NGMANRUNN1NGMAN Registered User regular
    edited April 2010
    Pi-r8 wrote: »
    RUNN1NGMAN wrote: »
    Couscous wrote: »
    God bless the required cynic who blames everything on instinct. Humanity is much more complicated than that. If racism is based on social anxiety as a result of meeting new and different looking people, it should be possible to prevent this by socializing them at a very early age with people of different races.

    There's a good chapter in Nurtureshock on all of this. It's pretty fascinating. I'm not going to go into all the details, but essentially they said that it's natural for young kids to form positive inferences about people who look like them, and negative inferences about people who don't. This actually has nothing to do with race, per se. One study gave one half of a class red shirts, and one half blue shirts. They wore the shirts every day. Even though the kids still played together and had positive reactions with the opposite color, when asked questions about which color shirts are smarter/better at a game/etc. they usually said that it was their color. They would also say things like "Blue is good at math, but not as good as red." It's a lot more complicated than just saying "Kids are racist!"

    But what about the numerous examples where black children still show a bias against other black kids and in favor of white kids? And this happens with people of other races too. It's not just a simple matter of "choosing people the same as you".

    You'll have to be more specific about what examples you're talking about. Nurtureshock was focusing on the neurological and developmental basis for race bias, and specifically on why most parent's attempts to raise "color-blind" children are backfiring. They weren't addressing any sort of societal issues that might cause black children to favor white kids.

    RUNN1NGMAN on
  • Options
    DisruptedCapitalistDisruptedCapitalist I swear! Registered User regular
    edited April 2010
    Pi-r8 wrote: »
    But what about the numerous examples where black children still show a bias against other black kids and in favor of white kids? And this happens with people of other races too. It's not just a simple matter of "choosing people the same as you".

    It's still a combination of the culture the child is reared in and the human tendency to form themselves into groups, hence my joke earlier about Yankees fans. A child with rabid Red Sox fans for parents will naturally assume that all Yankees fans are stupid. This would also be true for black parents who show a negative bias towards other blacks and a positive bias towards whites, the child will still want to become "part" of the positive group.

    DisruptedCapitalist on
    "Simple, real stupidity beats artificial intelligence every time." -Mustrum Ridcully in Terry Pratchett's Hogfather p. 142 (HarperPrism 1996)
  • Options
    LieberkuhnLieberkuhn __BANNED USERS regular
    edited April 2010
    Pi-r8 wrote: »
    RUNN1NGMAN wrote: »
    Couscous wrote: »
    God bless the required cynic who blames everything on instinct. Humanity is much more complicated than that. If racism is based on social anxiety as a result of meeting new and different looking people, it should be possible to prevent this by socializing them at a very early age with people of different races.

    There's a good chapter in Nurtureshock on all of this. It's pretty fascinating. I'm not going to go into all the details, but essentially they said that it's natural for young kids to form positive inferences about people who look like them, and negative inferences about people who don't. This actually has nothing to do with race, per se. One study gave one half of a class red shirts, and one half blue shirts. They wore the shirts every day. Even though the kids still played together and had positive reactions with the opposite color, when asked questions about which color shirts are smarter/better at a game/etc. they usually said that it was their color. They would also say things like "Blue is good at math, but not as good as red." It's a lot more complicated than just saying "Kids are racist!"

    But what about the numerous examples where black children still show a bias against other black kids and in favor of white kids? And this happens with people of other races too. It's not just a simple matter of "choosing people the same as you".

    White privilage.

    Lieberkuhn on
    While you eat, let's have a conversation about the nature of consent.
  • Options
    OptimusZedOptimusZed Registered User regular
    edited April 2010
    Pi-r8 wrote: »
    RUNN1NGMAN wrote: »
    Couscous wrote: »
    God bless the required cynic who blames everything on instinct. Humanity is much more complicated than that. If racism is based on social anxiety as a result of meeting new and different looking people, it should be possible to prevent this by socializing them at a very early age with people of different races.

    There's a good chapter in Nurtureshock on all of this. It's pretty fascinating. I'm not going to go into all the details, but essentially they said that it's natural for young kids to form positive inferences about people who look like them, and negative inferences about people who don't. This actually has nothing to do with race, per se. One study gave one half of a class red shirts, and one half blue shirts. They wore the shirts every day. Even though the kids still played together and had positive reactions with the opposite color, when asked questions about which color shirts are smarter/better at a game/etc. they usually said that it was their color. They would also say things like "Blue is good at math, but not as good as red." It's a lot more complicated than just saying "Kids are racist!"

    But what about the numerous examples where black children still show a bias against other black kids and in favor of white kids? And this happens with people of other races too. It's not just a simple matter of "choosing people the same as you".
    There are a couple of things going on there. First, we're talking about the point in a child's development where they are coming into some sort of sense of self, and as such they're searching for ways to self-define. This is why we see a lot of "we're better than them" kind of thought processes at this age, and all the way up through teenagers (and beyond in the cases of some who never actually mature past that sort of thing).

    Secondly, there are still a lot of overarching cues in our society that on some level say that being white is preferable to being black. Now adults with a good sense of self largely ignore these or actively fight back against them, but kids that are just developing have little to no defense against it.

    OptimusZed on
    We're reading Rifts. You should too. You know you want to. Now With Ninjas!

    They tried to bury us. They didn't know that we were seeds. 2018 Midterms. Get your shit together.
  • Options
    LoklarLoklar Registered User regular
    edited April 2010
    Pi-r8 wrote: »
    RUNN1NGMAN wrote: »
    Couscous wrote: »
    God bless the required cynic who blames everything on instinct. Humanity is much more complicated than that. If racism is based on social anxiety as a result of meeting new and different looking people, it should be possible to prevent this by socializing them at a very early age with people of different races.

    There's a good chapter in Nurtureshock on all of this. It's pretty fascinating. I'm not going to go into all the details, but essentially they said that it's natural for young kids to form positive inferences about people who look like them, and negative inferences about people who don't. This actually has nothing to do with race, per se. One study gave one half of a class red shirts, and one half blue shirts. They wore the shirts every day. Even though the kids still played together and had positive reactions with the opposite color, when asked questions about which color shirts are smarter/better at a game/etc. they usually said that it was their color. They would also say things like "Blue is good at math, but not as good as red." It's a lot more complicated than just saying "Kids are racist!"

    But what about the numerous examples where black children still show a bias against other black kids and in favor of white kids? And this happens with people of other races too. It's not just a simple matter of "choosing people the same as you".

    I think more than one thing is at work. I think we innantely have an affinity towards those similar to us (it can even be glasses, taste in music, religion or skin-colour) and we have our learned prejudices.
    Loklar wrote:
    The idea of using this to "cure racism" is some sort of Huxley-Nightmare scenario. It also wouldn't work. Social anxiety keeps me safe. It also keeps me in the corner at parties, but that's another story.

    Our goal should be to convince people that racism is stupid through the power of reasoned argument.

    That's the problem right there. You're assuming that rational debate can solve irrational problems. Sadly though, mental and social illnesses are not cured by reasoned arguments. (Just look at the Tea Parties.)

    You scare me.

    Loklar on
  • Options
    The CatThe Cat Registered User, ClubPA regular
    edited April 2010
    Loklar wrote: »
    The idea of using this to "cure racism" is some sort of Huxley-Nightmare scenario. It also wouldn't work. Social anxiety keeps me safe. It also keeps me in the corner at parties, but that's another story.

    Our goal should be to convince people that racism is stupid through the power of reasoned argument.

    That's the problem right there. You're assuming that rational debate can solve irrational problems. Sadly though, mental and social illnesses are not cured by reasoned arguments. (Just look at the Tea Parties.)

    What, like the irrationality of labelling every behaviour you disagree with "crazy"?

    racists are closeminded and stupid, among other failures of personality. They're not mentally ill. That's an insult to the mentally ill, not to mention being an entirely unproductive accusation to make.

    The Cat on
    tmsig.jpg
Sign In or Register to comment.