Ok so as someone who hasn't read a lot of the comics, but knows enough of the Marvel universe to be dangerous:
Who is considered the smartest person in the Marvel universe? These are the guys I can think of who would be considered, and I'm really curious to hear what folks who know the universe more have to think
- Reed Richards
- Tony Stark
- Norman Osborne?
- Xavier
- Bruce Banner
- Peter Parker maybe?
Am I missing anyone?
Those are all among the top minds. Banner's a rung below Reed & Stark for not having the variety or absurdity level. Reed is a rung higher than Tony, as well. Your missing Victor von Doom who matches and sometimes surpasses Richards. He doesn't need super-powers to take on the FF, that how smart he is. Spider-man is very intelligent though its only recently he's been exploiting his potential. Still a rank amateur to Richards, Doom & Stark of course.
Amadeus Cho. Hank Pym. The Beast. All of the Eternals.
Also, Apocalypse and Forge .... though neither would probably make it into an Avengers movie
Forge isn't a typical genius. It's his mutant ability to create advanced technology. IIRC he does not know how they work.
oohhh I thought his mutant ability was being a genius .... but then again, by the time I got into (and out of) X-Men, Forge was on maybe one page every 6 issues or so.
anyway? Or that doctor chick that could put shields around herself. Or all sorts of mutants I remember that I have not seen in years. Did the whole Scarlet Witch wishes mutants away get rid of them all, basically?
Also, you know who we have not seen in a while (that I am aware of anyway)? Cameron Hodge. He ought to still be around due to his deal with the devil. Or for that matter, Belasco and S'ym. And Xavier's space lover lady (Lilandra?) and the space jammers.
anyway? Or that doctor chick that could put shields around herself. Or all sorts of mutants I remember that I have not seen in years. Did the whole Scarlet Witch wishes mutants away get rid of them all, basically?
IIRC Maggott died a few years ago. Cecelia Reyes was incredible. She was the most interesting mutants to join the team in the 90's. Can't comment on whether Scarlet Witch depowered her since I had stopped collecting comics before that time.
Also, you know who we have not seen in a while (that I am aware of anyway)? Cameron Hodge. He ought to still be around due to his deal with the devil. Or for that matter, Belasco and S'ym. And Xavier's space lover lady (Lilandra?) and the space jammers.
That's the downside to being an obscure X-man. When new writers come in unless they really like the character they won't use them.
Cameron Hodge was in X-Force a couple years ago and Lilandra died in War of Kings. I haven't really been keeping up with comics in the last year, so I'm not sure if they've been seen since.
Also, another name to add to the genius list is T'Challa (Black Panther).
Lilandra's death allowed Gladiator to take over the Shi'ar and was in the same story as getting rid of Vulcan. Therefore, her death was probably the best one in comics.
anyway? Or that doctor chick that could put shields around herself. Or all sorts of mutants I remember that I have not seen in years. Did the whole Scarlet Witch wishes mutants away get rid of them all, basically?
She didn't wish them away, she just depowered a bunch of them. Maggott kind of went MIA a few years ago, but checking Wikipedia tells me that we might be seeing him again soon. There are still a lot of mutants around.
Thats the one thing that kind of annoys me about continuous changes to writing rosters. Well that and the resurections of their pet characters, rendering the prior death void of whatever act of heroism went with it. How many times did they bring back Jean or Illiana? I love Kurt Wagner, but if some writer pulls some dumb excuse for bringing him back, I'll be pretty annoyed.
Unless Shane Black is just misleading people, the Mandarin isn't ever going to happen on his watch, as he thinks the character is a "racist caricature."
Which is a shame, becuase it was obvious Jon Favreau was heading in that direction.
Favreau didn't like him, either. And for some reason he thought his rings were magic. O_o
...they aren't? Did I miss a retcon or twelve?
No, the rings were always alien in origin. He stole them from Fin Fang Foom's starship. Thor & Avengers sets Mandarin up perfectly by establishing aliens existing in the universe.
My only exposure to the Mandarin was the whole Psylocke and Wolverine thing with him, and Mandarin tries to marry Jubilee. I took the rings to be some sort of psychic attenuator based on that story.
Jean was only brought back from the dead once, actually. She's currently dead, and has been for seven years going.
Was she? I might be using her interchangeably with the Phoenix force.
Well, her first death was retconned as the Phoenix having taken her form and died while she was in suspended animation. Her second death was when Magneto killed her seven years ago.
Unless Shane Black is just misleading people, the Mandarin isn't ever going to happen on his watch, as he thinks the character is a "racist caricature."
Which is a shame, becuase it was obvious Jon Favreau was heading in that direction.
Favreau didn't like him, either. And for some reason he thought his rings were magic. O_o
...they aren't? Did I miss a retcon or twelve?
No, the rings were always alien in origin. He stole them from Fin Fang Foom's starship. Thor & Avengers sets Mandarin up perfectly by establishing aliens existing in the universe.
My only exposure to the Mandarin was the whole Psylocke and Wolverine thing with him, and Mandarin tries to marry Jubilee. I took the rings to be some sort of psychic attenuator based on that story.
They operate like GL rings. If you wear them, all you need to do is think and they'll activate. My first exposure to Mandarin was in Busiek's Iron Man run when he was in a giant serpent robot thing. That or when he showed up in Iron Man: Director of SHIELD where the rings were implanted into his spine.
Who thought it was a good idea to make Osborne an Avengers villain? Because it really, really isn't.
Oh well if Fencingsax didn't like it I guess it isn't.
No wait.
I liked it. It was fun and interesting and a natural change for the guy. He hadn't been Spider-mans villain for a long time. He'd been working the Thunderbolts. And he's not that low on the intelligence level to begin with. Though Tony does end up out thinking him.
Osborn was good because at the time he wasn't that bad of a guy. Still a bad guy and someone you didn't want in control but that might end up in control anyway. He wants to be good, he tries but is fundamentally a selfish business man even when the Goblin isn't driving him nuts.
Ok, I can see how there could be overlap then. Strange, Stark, Xavier, Reed, Namor are all pretty influential in their areas.
Hard to believe the movie's less then a month away.
Yup. In this group of people and throwing in the Black Panther(who was in Tony's original plan) and Blackbolt( who was in it too) the Illuminati basically had their hand in every important organization in the world and almost unlimited resources so they could Launch Hulk into space(which granted wasn't the best idea), put the fear of human into the Skull and keep the Infinity Gems hidden.
Ok, I can see how there could be overlap then. Strange, Stark, Xavier, Reed, Namor are all pretty influential in their areas.
Hard to believe the movie's less then a month away.
Yup. In this group of people and throwing in the Black Panther(who was in Tony's original plan) and Blackbolt( who was in it too) the Illuminati basically had their hand in every important organization in the world and almost unlimited resources so they could Launch Hulk into space(which granted wasn't the best idea), put the fear of human into the Skull and keep the Infinity Gems hidden.
Also Cap is now a member.
Unfortunately they were undermined by Marvel to be truly effective, even when they did logical things like send Hulk away to a different planet.
I love Kurt Wagner, but if some writer pulls some dumb excuse for bringing him back, I'll be pretty annoyed.
They brought Nightcrawler back, but in perhaps the best way possible. X-Force spent some time in the Age of Apocalypse and they brought the AoA Wagner back with them.
It's definitely not the same as reviving the 616 Wagner.
Ok so as someone who hasn't read a lot of the comics, but knows enough of the Marvel universe to be dangerous:
Who is considered the smartest person in the Marvel universe? These are the guys I can think of who would be considered, and I'm really curious to hear what folks who know the universe more have to think
- Reed Richards
- Tony Stark
- Norman Osborne?
- Xavier
- Bruce Banner
- Peter Parker maybe?
Am I missing anyone?
Those are all among the top minds. Banner's a rung below Reed & Stark for not having the variety or absurdity level. Reed is a rung higher than Tony, as well. Your missing Victor von Doom who matches and sometimes surpasses Richards. He doesn't need super-powers to take on the FF, that how smart he is. Spider-man is very intelligent though its only recently he's been exploiting his potential. Still a rank amateur to Richards, Doom & Stark of course.
Amadeus Cho. Hank Pym. The Beast. All of the Eternals.
Also, Apocalypse and Forge .... though neither would probably make it into an Avengers movie
Apoc is a genius? I guess all that genetic engineering? By extension Sinister then?
Also: DOOM! He's a biggie.
and Hank Pym
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Brainiac 8Don't call me Shirley...Registered Userregular
And yet with all their massive scientific advancements the average person doesn't benefit from any of it in their daily lives. I mean, sure, Galactus didn't eat us all but where are our flying cars?
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KalTorakOne way or another, they all end up inthe Undercity.Registered Userregular
And yet with all their massive scientific advancements the average person doesn't benefit from any of it in their daily lives. I mean, sure, Galactus didn't eat us all but where are our flying cars?
99% of the human intellect is possessed by 1% of the population. Also 99% of the flying cars.
Seriously the FF are always tooling around in that Voltronmobile.
amateurhourOne day I'll be professionalhourThe woods somewhere in TennesseeRegistered Userregular
The list of "Smartest in the Marvel Universe" is about as vague and constantly changing as the list of Omega level mutants. At one point it was revealed that Iceman was fucking Omega level because he couldn't die in ice form. Also at one point Cyclops was Omega level because his blast once reached the equivalent force of a nuclear detonation or some garbage.
having said that, my ranking is as follows.
1) Reed
2) Doom (always just a step under Reed, hence the rivalry)
3) Cho (I know he's usually ranked 7, but I like the kid)
4) Stark
5) Banner
- Honestly Stark and Banner are interchangeable because they're both geniuses in their fields and on equal levels on a curve
6) Pym (just below Banner, hence the rivalry (in the Ultimates Universe and sometimes in Marvel main U)
7) Beast
8) Xavier (although his intellect is mostly derived from his ability to scan others minds, but it still counts)
9) Peter Parker
- 10 is reserved for any new mutants or masterminds that have emerged or re-emerged since the events after Siege (I've been out of the loop)
Here's an interesting one though, top 5 Combat proven leaders
1) Captain America
2) Ms. Marvel
3) Wolverine
4) Thor
5) Red Skull
And yet with all their massive scientific advancements the average person doesn't benefit from any of it in their daily lives. I mean, sure, Galactus didn't eat us all but where are our flying cars?
99% of the human intellect is possessed by 1% of the population. Also 99% of the flying cars.
Seriously the FF are always tooling around in that Voltronmobile.
Two words: unstable molecules.
Every super hero costume is made of the stuff, but has it made its way to the average person? Nosir.
The stuff doesn't rip! Imagine what the panty hose industry could do with it. (well, go out of business since they wouldn't need to be replaced...).
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Brainiac 8Don't call me Shirley...Registered Userregular
You can technically say that Prodigy is one of the smartest, if only because he mutant power alowed him to permanently absorb all the knowledge of every person he's ever come in contact with.
It used to be temporary, but a few years back the cuccoos were able to make it all permanent.
Also stark and Cho are smart but in no way are they on the scale of Pym, Banner, and Hank. Stark is really mostly an engineer/inventor, but not so much when it comes to the sciences.
And yet with all their massive scientific advancements the average person doesn't benefit from any of it in their daily lives. I mean, sure, Galactus didn't eat us all but where are our flying cars?
99% of the human intellect is possessed by 1% of the population. Also 99% of the flying cars.
Seriously the FF are always tooling around in that Voltronmobile.
Two words: unstable molecules.
Every super hero costume is made of the stuff, but has it made its way to the average person? Nosir.
The stuff doesn't rip! Imagine what the panty hose industry could do with it. (well, go out of business since they wouldn't need to be replaced...).
Despite the joke, I was going to write a long winded argument about how the Marvel U (especially Ultimate Marvel) is good about having costumes that tear or come apart or break, but then it hit me.
They've never fully explained how the Hulks pants always stay on, despite the fact he's always changing sizes.
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amateurhourOne day I'll be professionalhourThe woods somewhere in TennesseeRegistered Userregular
You can technically say that Prodigy is one of the smartest, if only because he mutant power alowed him to permanently absorb all the knowledge of every person he's ever come in contact with.
It used to be temporary, but a few years back the cuccoos were able to make it all permanent.
Also stark and Cho are smart but in no way are they on the scale of Pym, Banner, and Hank. Stark is really mostly an engineer/inventor, but not so much when it comes to the sciences.
That's like a long running joke though that engineers aren't as smart as scientists. I mean sure Reed can invent a negative zone prison, but someone's gotta make the alloy that holds together in there, and usually in comic book land that involves creating new elements for materials.
You can technically say that Prodigy is one of the smartest, if only because he mutant power alowed him to permanently absorb all the knowledge of every person he's ever come in contact with.
It used to be temporary, but a few years back the cuccoos were able to make it all permanent.
Also stark and Cho are smart but in no way are they on the scale of Pym, Banner, and Hank. Stark is really mostly an engineer/inventor, but not so much when it comes to the sciences.
That's like a long running joke though that engineers aren't as smart as scientists. I mean sure Reed can invent a negative zone prison, but someone's gotta make the alloy that holds together in there, and usually in comic book land that involves creating new elements for materials.
I'd put Cho and Stark up there, especially Stark.
Then why wouldn't you put Forge up there as his mutant ability would allow him to come up with anything Stark could, only better? :P
And yet with all their massive scientific advancements the average person doesn't benefit from any of it in their daily lives. I mean, sure, Galactus didn't eat us all but where are our flying cars?
99% of the human intellect is possessed by 1% of the population. Also 99% of the flying cars.
Seriously the FF are always tooling around in that Voltronmobile.
Two words: unstable molecules.
Every super hero costume is made of the stuff, but has it made its way to the average person? Nosir.
The stuff doesn't rip! Imagine what the panty hose industry could do with it. (well, go out of business since they wouldn't need to be replaced...).
Despite the joke, I was going to write a long winded argument about how the Marvel U (especially Ultimate Marvel) is good about having costumes that tear or come apart or break, but then it hit me.
They've never fully explained how the Hulks pants always stay on, despite the fact he's always changing sizes.
After writing my post, I looked up the wikipedia entry on unstable molecules. Apparently most superheroes don't have them (although the FF does, as do X-Men, and Avengers are getting in on it, too... Actually, one can probably be said to have "made it" when they get an unstable molecule costume).
It actually covers the lack of commercial applications, but I find the reasoning bullshit that Reed could fix if he wanted to.
You can technically say that Prodigy is one of the smartest, if only because he mutant power alowed him to permanently absorb all the knowledge of every person he's ever come in contact with.
It used to be temporary, but a few years back the cuccoos were able to make it all permanent.
Also stark and Cho are smart but in no way are they on the scale of Pym, Banner, and Hank. Stark is really mostly an engineer/inventor, but not so much when it comes to the sciences.
That's like a long running joke though that engineers aren't as smart as scientists. I mean sure Reed can invent a negative zone prison, but someone's gotta make the alloy that holds together in there, and usually in comic book land that involves creating new elements for materials.
I'd put Cho and Stark up there, especially Stark.
Then why wouldn't you put Forge up there as his mutant ability would allow him to come up with anything Stark could, only better? :P
The only reason I wouldn't put Forge in that list is because he could only build. He's more the generator than the guy building the power plant.
It would take Cho or Stark to reverse engineer his machines to make them work again, honestly it would probably take someone from the Shi'ar (?) empire to reverse engineer them.
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amateurhourOne day I'll be professionalhourThe woods somewhere in TennesseeRegistered Userregular
I'll bet Forge made the coolest erector set toys when he was a kid though.
Like he made his own Iron Man mark 1 armor out of those little metal pieces.
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Brainiac 8Don't call me Shirley...Registered Userregular
I think the way Forge works is that he has no real skill. No knowledge of "Pure" science or mathematics.
He just thinks "I want to do X" and then knows he needs to do A, B, C,... to do it.
Yea, I was just messing about Forge. He is more natural intuition/instinct than pure knowledge. Like you said, He says "I have this idea" and he just knows what he needs to do to make it happen.
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oohhh I thought his mutant ability was being a genius .... but then again, by the time I got into (and out of) X-Men, Forge was on maybe one page every 6 issues or so.
Also, you know who we have not seen in a while (that I am aware of anyway)? Cameron Hodge. He ought to still be around due to his deal with the devil. Or for that matter, Belasco and S'ym. And Xavier's space lover lady (Lilandra?) and the space jammers.
IIRC Maggott died a few years ago. Cecelia Reyes was incredible. She was the most interesting mutants to join the team in the 90's. Can't comment on whether Scarlet Witch depowered her since I had stopped collecting comics before that time.
That's the downside to being an obscure X-man. When new writers come in unless they really like the character they won't use them.
Also, another name to add to the genius list is T'Challa (Black Panther).
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She didn't wish them away, she just depowered a bunch of them. Maggott kind of went MIA a few years ago, but checking Wikipedia tells me that we might be seeing him again soon. There are still a lot of mutants around.
Well, her first death was retconned as the Phoenix having taken her form and died while she was in suspended animation. Her second death was when Magneto killed her seven years ago.
They operate like GL rings. If you wear them, all you need to do is think and they'll activate. My first exposure to Mandarin was in Busiek's Iron Man run when he was in a giant serpent robot thing. That or when he showed up in Iron Man: Director of SHIELD where the rings were implanted into his spine.
Oh well if Fencingsax didn't like it I guess it isn't.
No wait.
I liked it. It was fun and interesting and a natural change for the guy. He hadn't been Spider-mans villain for a long time. He'd been working the Thunderbolts. And he's not that low on the intelligence level to begin with. Though Tony does end up out thinking him.
Osborn was good because at the time he wasn't that bad of a guy. Still a bad guy and someone you didn't want in control but that might end up in control anyway. He wants to be good, he tries but is fundamentally a selfish business man even when the Goblin isn't driving him nuts.
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Reed
Doom
Pym
Stark/Banner
Cho
But they seem to really just rank it on the normal human scale. Time travelers and Mutant/Aliens never seemed to be ranked.
Or was he just there to represent Atlantian interests?
Namor though is top of the class as solving things diplomaticly with his penis while screaming IMPERIUS REX!
Yeah the Illuminati wasn't a thinktank.
It wasn't about pure intellect. It was people who both represented a remarkable personal power and, more importantly, influence and resolve.
Hard to believe the movie's less then a month away.
Yup. In this group of people and throwing in the Black Panther(who was in Tony's original plan) and Blackbolt( who was in it too) the Illuminati basically had their hand in every important organization in the world and almost unlimited resources so they could Launch Hulk into space(which granted wasn't the best idea), put the fear of human into the Skull and keep the Infinity Gems hidden.
Also Cap is now a member.
Unfortunately they were undermined by Marvel to be truly effective, even when they did logical things like send Hulk away to a different planet.
They brought Nightcrawler back, but in perhaps the best way possible. X-Force spent some time in the Age of Apocalypse and they brought the AoA Wagner back with them.
It's definitely not the same as reviving the 616 Wagner.
Apoc is a genius? I guess all that genetic engineering? By extension Sinister then?
Also: DOOM! He's a biggie.
and Hank Pym
Beast has been mentioned in the comics as being one of the five smartest men in the Marvel Universe.
I'd probably say it goes:
Reed
Doom
Beast
Banner
Pym
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99% of the human intellect is possessed by 1% of the population. Also 99% of the flying cars.
Seriously the FF are always tooling around in that Voltronmobile.
having said that, my ranking is as follows.
1) Reed
2) Doom (always just a step under Reed, hence the rivalry)
3) Cho (I know he's usually ranked 7, but I like the kid)
4) Stark
5) Banner
- Honestly Stark and Banner are interchangeable because they're both geniuses in their fields and on equal levels on a curve
6) Pym (just below Banner, hence the rivalry (in the Ultimates Universe and sometimes in Marvel main U)
7) Beast
8) Xavier (although his intellect is mostly derived from his ability to scan others minds, but it still counts)
9) Peter Parker
- 10 is reserved for any new mutants or masterminds that have emerged or re-emerged since the events after Siege (I've been out of the loop)
Here's an interesting one though, top 5 Combat proven leaders
1) Captain America
2) Ms. Marvel
3) Wolverine
4) Thor
5) Red Skull
Two words: unstable molecules.
Every super hero costume is made of the stuff, but has it made its way to the average person? Nosir.
The stuff doesn't rip! Imagine what the panty hose industry could do with it. (well, go out of business since they wouldn't need to be replaced...).
It used to be temporary, but a few years back the cuccoos were able to make it all permanent.
Also stark and Cho are smart but in no way are they on the scale of Pym, Banner, and Hank. Stark is really mostly an engineer/inventor, but not so much when it comes to the sciences.
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PSN - Brainiac_8
Steam - http://steamcommunity.com/id/BRAINIAC8/
Add me!
:shock:
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Despite the joke, I was going to write a long winded argument about how the Marvel U (especially Ultimate Marvel) is good about having costumes that tear or come apart or break, but then it hit me.
They've never fully explained how the Hulks pants always stay on, despite the fact he's always changing sizes.
That's like a long running joke though that engineers aren't as smart as scientists. I mean sure Reed can invent a negative zone prison, but someone's gotta make the alloy that holds together in there, and usually in comic book land that involves creating new elements for materials.
I'd put Cho and Stark up there, especially Stark.
Then why wouldn't you put Forge up there as his mutant ability would allow him to come up with anything Stark could, only better? :P
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After writing my post, I looked up the wikipedia entry on unstable molecules. Apparently most superheroes don't have them (although the FF does, as do X-Men, and Avengers are getting in on it, too... Actually, one can probably be said to have "made it" when they get an unstable molecule costume).
It actually covers the lack of commercial applications, but I find the reasoning bullshit that Reed could fix if he wanted to.
He just thinks "I want to do X" and then knows he needs to do A, B, C,... to do it.
The only reason I wouldn't put Forge in that list is because he could only build. He's more the generator than the guy building the power plant.
It would take Cho or Stark to reverse engineer his machines to make them work again, honestly it would probably take someone from the Shi'ar (?) empire to reverse engineer them.
Like he made his own Iron Man mark 1 armor out of those little metal pieces.
Yea, I was just messing about Forge. He is more natural intuition/instinct than pure knowledge. Like you said, He says "I have this idea" and he just knows what he needs to do to make it happen.
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