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Examples of Positive Effect on Children from Gaming (renamed)

KittkinKittkin Registered User new member
edited April 2010 in Help / Advice Forum
I am not in the habit of asking for help on forums, since I've lurked on the internet long enough to realize that rarely works. However, I've got a problem that I think everyone here can help me with. I'll preface it with a bit of a story, and hopefully you can find it in your hearts to give me a hand.

I attended PAX East in Boston just this past month. It was my first PAX convention, and I was suitably wowed by the Expo and the panels and all the other cool stuff that filled up with weekend. Most of all, though, I was amazed by the sense of community at the con. Even in the midst of the ungodly lines, people were friendly and approachable. By far the best example was at the last of Mike and Jerry's panels, where there was a standing ovation for a girl who stood up to speak on Child's Play and how important it was to her. I have to say, when Mike walked down the aisle to hug her, I teared up a bit.

Fast forward to the present day, in the midst of another quarter at university. I'm taking a persuasive speaking class, and our first assignment was to do a presentation on some charity or organization that we thought was worth attention. My friends immediately suggested Child's Play, and I agreed wholeheartedly. But here is where the problem comes in. We were required to pitch a number of topics to the class, submitting our ideas for commentary and a vote. When I stood up and began talking about Child's Play, I explained how the charity gives money, toys, books, and video games to hospitals around the world so that sick children would have something to focus on besides their illness. My professor stared at me, and then said 'There is an organization that does that?! Gives video games to children?" Disgust was evident in her voice.

I was horrified. She went on to explain that she hated video games, for all the usual reasons. Violent time wasters, etc. I tried to counter her argument, saying that the charity was started in part to prove that the gaming community was made up of decent people. Games, I said, do not turn people into sociopaths. Her response? "But they do!"

So, there's the back story. Now, here's my plea. I need to make this the best speech I've ever given. I find it offensive that my professor would turn her back on money and entertainment for chronically ill children because video games happen to be involved, and I imagine you do to. So I'm asking everyone for all the information they can give me. I'm already gathering my research on the effects of video games, and I'm contacting the Children's Hospital in the area (one that Child's Play gives to directly) to get the opinions of doctors and nurses on whether playing the video games helps the children. But I would greatly appreciate anything else you can find for me. Anything you think is relevant. Especially personal stories, if these issues have touched your life in any way.

I know that the gaming community is strong. I've seen it for myself. If you can, please help me to prove that in my speech.

Kittkin on

Posts

  • PonyPony Registered User regular
    edited April 2010
    1. This thread belongs in H/A, since you are literally asking for Help and Advice.

    2. This sounds very much like a "do my homework for me, Forums!" type post.

    Pony on
  • Grid SystemGrid System Registered User regular
    edited April 2010
    Yeah, this is probably better suited to H/A.

    That said, here's some advice: Pick your battles. While I commend your commitment to spreading the "good word", an in-class presentation for marks is not the best venue. It sucks to have your hobby maligned, but you have to realize that it doesn't matter what you say; her mind is made up. Just pick something easy, get yourself a good grade, and don't worry about your prof's prejudices.

    Grid System on
  • Angel177Angel177 Registered User regular
    edited April 2010
    I can't agree with the above. The best thing to do would be to have a quick word with the head of that dept, as a teacher should be objective and not allow personal prejudice to intrude into their worklife, then just do the work and state your case.

    oh and check out a book called Grand Theft Childhood(http://www.amazon.com/Grand-Theft-Childhood-Surprising-Violent/dp/0743299515) its a study on violent video games and children.

    Angel177 on
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  • Angel177Angel177 Registered User regular
    edited April 2010
    Angel177 on
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  • TofystedethTofystedeth Registered User regular
    edited April 2010
    Pony wrote: »
    1. This thread belongs in H/A, since you are literally asking for Help and Advice.

    2. This sounds very much like a "do my homework for me, Forums!" type post.
    1. Yes.
    2. It sounds like the OP has done and is already doing a lot of work and is just asking for more sources and resources to apply said work to.

    To the OP. Ask yourself this: Is your professor the type of prof who while completely disagreeing with your speech will grade you on the merits of the work you did and the arguments you present? or by whether she was persuaded (she sounds like she will not be) or on the fact that she hates your subject matter?
    If yes to the first question, go ahead. If no, follow previous posters advice and find a different topic.

    Are you allowed multimedia? you might be able to ask for snippets of video from the testimonials given by people in the PATV episode about Child's Play. Or at least quote from them (with proper attribution of course)

    Tofystedeth on
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  • baudattitudebaudattitude Registered User regular
    edited April 2010
    Yeah, this is probably better suited to H/A.

    That said, here's some advice: Pick your battles. While I commend your commitment to spreading the "good word", an in-class presentation for marks is not the best venue. It sucks to have your hobby maligned, but you have to realize that it doesn't matter what you say; her mind is made up. Just pick something easy, get yourself a good grade, and don't worry about your prof's prejudices.

    Everything said here is gospel truth. Pick a nice, non-offensive topic, grit your teeth, and get through it.

    baudattitude on
  • NostregarNostregar Registered User regular
    edited April 2010
    Yeah, this is probably better suited to H/A.

    That said, here's some advice: Pick your battles. While I commend your commitment to spreading the "good word", an in-class presentation for marks is not the best venue. It sucks to have your hobby maligned, but you have to realize that it doesn't matter what you say; her mind is made up. Just pick something easy, get yourself a good grade, and don't worry about your prof's prejudices.

    Everything said here is gospel truth. Pick a nice, non-offensive topic, grit your teeth, and get through it.

    Some people actually care about the work they do for classes. If the professor gives it a bad grade because of a personal problem with video games, the OP can appeal it to a superior.

    Nostregar on
  • SipexSipex Registered User regular
    edited April 2010
    If you are going to appeal it to a superior, do so BEFORE doing the project.

    That way, when you get a bad grade there will be a track record of you reporting your teacher's prejudice beforehand and they're less likely to write you off as 'some kid whining about how he got a bad grade'

    Sipex on
  • PagoonPagoon Registered User regular
    edited April 2010
    From personal experience, it's not always a good idea to restructure your speech/presentation to cut off criticism or "get defensive" over a topic. If your goal is to talk about this charity, then stick to it and perhaps stick in some facts about how video games help challenge a person's brain to stay active (I know there are studies on this, I've used them). The goal of the paper was not to refute if video games are good or bad for kids, and you should point that out if your teacher brings it up. Too many times people are graded for the topics which the teacher agrees or disagrees with, and not for the content. If you chose the easy way out, you'll bow to her. If you chose to fight for your believes, you will won't care and will make your speech that much better.

    On a side note, if you ask your teacher if books are better for kids (arguing violence is a tool taught by video games), then bring up the Catcher in the Rye and why it's tied to so many assassinations.

    Pagoon on
  • override367override367 ALL minions Registered User regular
    edited April 2010
    Nostregar wrote: »
    Yeah, this is probably better suited to H/A.

    That said, here's some advice: Pick your battles. While I commend your commitment to spreading the "good word", an in-class presentation for marks is not the best venue. It sucks to have your hobby maligned, but you have to realize that it doesn't matter what you say; her mind is made up. Just pick something easy, get yourself a good grade, and don't worry about your prof's prejudices.

    Everything said here is gospel truth. Pick a nice, non-offensive topic, grit your teeth, and get through it.

    Some people actually care about the work they do for classes. If the professor gives it a bad grade because of a personal problem with video games, the OP can appeal it to a superior.

    I wrote a paper about how the old environmentalist "anti-nuke" lobby has contributed significantly to the problems of today, and is partially why the country is littered with destructive coal plants instead because they apparently expected people to just stop using electricity.

    Turned out my teacher was a huge part of that movement in the 1970s and gave me the lowest possible passing grade despite it being a reasonably well written paper. Took much complaining, but another teacher who does the same subject took a second look and gave me (the equivilent of) an A

    If there's an issue that's sticking in your craw and you know you can write a detailed, passionate paper about - don't hold back just because your teacher might not like the topic (assuming the topic you pick is one that isn't forbidden, eg: "write a paper about fruit" and you make a poem about spaceships)

    override367 on
  • SpeakerSpeaker Registered User regular
    edited April 2010
    Speaker on
  • ConduitConduit Registered User new member
    edited April 2010
    I think you should prepare an example to present to her.

    "What should this child do while he's in the hospital (*shows picture of child in pain due to some horrible thing*), think of *horrible thing* all day, OR (*shows picture of super mario level*), try to figure out how to get every star in New Super Mario Bros? But yeah, you're right, video games will turn him into a sociopath."

    Then, when you're done and she's sitting their with her jaw dropped to the floor because you pwned her so bad you must strike.... ZING! IN YOUR FACE! I'M OUT, PEACE!!!! Then walk out. Make sure you walk out or that would be lame.

    Conduit on
  • YougottawannaYougottawanna Registered User regular
    edited April 2010
    The book "everything bad is good for you" deals in part with this, though it's not specifically about video games.

    Yougottawanna on
  • ElJeffeElJeffe Registered User, ClubPA regular
    edited April 2010
    Yes, this is more suited for H/A.

    Moving...

    ...

    ...

    ...move complete.

    ElJeffe on
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  • Eat it You Nasty Pig.Eat it You Nasty Pig. tell homeland security 'we are the bomb'Registered User regular
    edited April 2010
    Anyone who thinks video games turn kids into sociopaths isn't worth trying to convince.

    The best argument would be "look around your classroom. How many sociopaths do you think are in here? Cause, we all played videogames."

    Eat it You Nasty Pig. on
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  • TomantaTomanta Registered User regular
    edited April 2010
    My very quick Google search pegs the percent of the US population that plays video games at 60-70%. That's a lot of sociopaths.

    But I definitely agree with Pagoon: don't get defensive. Stick to your topic. Toss in some benefits of playing video games as it pertains to the topic. If you think you did well on it and you get a bad grade, take it to the professor's superior. Possibly talk to the superior beforehand in case you think it will be a problem. Consider having someone else in the class record the presentation.

    Tomanta on
  • Casual EddyCasual Eddy The Astral PlaneRegistered User regular
    edited April 2010
    video games help burn victims with pain management

    http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2008/03/080319152744.htm

    video games help autistic kids

    http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2007/06/070622183516.htm

    and so on. there are a lot of examples of modified video games being used to help the disabled and mentally challenged. You may want to talk with some computer science professors/students for more examples, I'm sure they would be happy to point you in the right direction.

    As for child's play, explain the situation fully. My understanding is that they are giving wii's and child-friendly games to sick, sick children that are pretty much stuck in the hospital. You may want to try shooting Khoo or Jerry or Mike an email to get some testimonials about Child's Play. Keep in mind that these are kids that NEED time wasters. Don't get self righteous, just lay out evidence, facts, and testimonials. You may be able to find a study that shows that kids in hospitals that are entertained by video games have less instances of depression or have better overall mental health. If you can include a picture of a grinning, cancer ridden child playing a video game you'll be all the better for it.

    Also the state of washington honored jerry and mike for child's play didn't they?

    Casual Eddy on
  • KPCKPC Registered User regular
    edited April 2010
    Has anyone bothered to point out the obvious fact that Child's Play is supported by gamers who donate to kids? Because that's what a sociopath would do.

    KPC on
  • SwashbucklerXXSwashbucklerXX Swashbucklin' Canuck Registered User regular
    edited April 2010
    Firstly, I think you all are putting this prof on trial before she's even committed a crime (other than being ignorant about video games). Does she have a history of or a reputation for grading according to her personal opinion, or was this just an example of her voicing her opinion in class? If she's a good professor, the OP will do well by giving a persuasive presentation about the merits of Child's Play and the toys it provides to sick kids.

    OP, I think your best bet isn't to argue about the issue of whether games turn kids into sociopaths. Your assignment is to demonstrate why this charity deserves attention. Keep your focus on Child's Play and demonstrate the positive nature of the toys and games they donate as part of your presentation. Give examples like Nintendogs, and talk about how it teaches kids to be responsible pet owners and encourages social interaction through its multiplayer options. Have a slide showing the categories of age-appropriate items that are requested by the hospitals themselves. Demonstrate Child's Play's nature as a charity that has strong relationships with the hospitals and use the testimonials to show how it has helped sick kids.

    I disagree with the other posters that you should complain to the prof's higher-ups before you receive your grade. If she does grade you poorly, go talk to her. Have the criteria of the assignment as she provided them to you with you. Focus solely on the stated criteria of the assignment, not on your disagreement over the merits of video games. Ask her why she didn't believe you met each assignment criterion satisfactorily, and write down her answers. If you think she's BSing you and you can prove that you did complete the assignment satisfactorily, then you have a good case to take to a higher up and will be taken more seriously.

    This will also make it clear to you whether you deserved the grade you received. Maybe she thought your content was good, but you mumbled the entire time and failed to properly scan the class, in which case, you get to take your B- with a smile. :)

    SwashbucklerXX on
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  • PirateJonPirateJon Registered User regular
    edited April 2010
    Make a speech about how games keep kids inside so they don't get eaten by bears. Bonus for big diagrams with bears.

    PirateJon on
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  • VisionOfClarityVisionOfClarity Registered User regular
    edited April 2010
    Swash's advice, spot on.

    VisionOfClarity on
  • darkmayodarkmayo Registered User regular
    edited April 2010
    Tough call, university is full of politics and rubbing a professor the wrong way can definately make your class more of a pain in the ass.

    If it was me, I would do it on Child's Play, it has nothing to hide it is something everyone who is a gamer and has donated should be proud about. The object of your report isnt to definate video games, its to talk about the charity.


    There is restrictions on what sort of games/toys go to childs play anyways, its not like we are filling hospitals with copies of GTA and God of War.

    darkmayo on
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  • TofystedethTofystedeth Registered User regular
    edited April 2010
    Yeah, I would definitely focus less on "games improve your brain" "gamers don't grow up to be evil" and more on the "games help take your mind off pain" and "they make these kids really happy."
    There's some great letters on the Child's Play site.

    Tofystedeth on
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  • RanadielRanadiel Registered User regular
    edited April 2010
    There's a slew of games that push education. The DS is a great place to start looking. I'd also cite Scribblenauts as a game that encourages imagination and creativity, and is very kid-friendly.

    Ranadiel on
  • mspencermspencer PAX [ENFORCER] Council Bluffs, IARegistered User regular
    edited April 2010
    Here's some cited quotations from some books I bought, which I previously quoted in a discussion about ethical violence in games.
    So what is art? My take on it is simple. Media provide information. Entertainment provides comforting, simplistic information. And art provides challenging information, stuff that you have to think about in order to absorb. That's it. Art uses a particular medium to communicate within the constraints of that medium, and often what is communicated is thoughts about the medium itself (in other words, a formalist approach to arts -- much modern art falls into this category.)
    If the game makes me kill in an uncomfortable or unheroic way, the experience is harder to digest and poses some uncomfortable questions about war and death - more like art. Otherwise it's easy entertainment, heroic and affirming and unchallenging of my existing beliefs.
    We have only to watch young dogs to see that all the essentials of human play are present in their merry gambols. They invite one another to play by a certain ceremoniousness of attitude and gesture. They keep to the rule that you shall not bite, or not bite hard, your brother's ear. They pretend to get terribly angry. And -- what is most important -- in all these doings they plainly experience tremendous fun and enjoyment. Such rompings of young dogs are only one of the simpler forms of animal play. There are other, much more highly developed forms: regular contests and beautiful performances before an admiring public.
    Symbolic play is not just fundamental to human psychology. It is fundamental to life. People who have trouble understanding that a playful representation of something is different from the real thing -- that heroic shooting rampages with bulletproof protagonists don't happen in real life -- are broken people.
    Players can play Sonic Adventure 2 Battle in two different ways. They can be "good" and play as the blue Sonic, or they can be "bad" and play as Sonic's look-alike, Shadow. If they choose Sonic, they play as Sonic, together with his friends Knuckles (a boy echidna) and Tails (a boy squirrel), trying to stop Dr. Eggman and Shadow from taking over the world. If they choose Shadow, they play as Shadow, together with his friends Rouge (a girl bat) and Dr. Eggman, trying to destroy the world. Players can switch back and forth, playing part of the Sonic quest and then changing to play part of the Shadow quest.

    The six-year-old from chapter 2 also played Sonic Adventure 2 Battle. When he originally got the game, he first played a few episodes from the Sonic quest and then started playing episodes from the Shadow quest. When he was playing as Shadow, he commented on the fact that "the bad guy was the good guy" -- an odd remark. What he meant, of course, is that when you are playing as a virtual character in a video game, that character (you) is the hero (center) of the story and in that sense is the "good guy" no matter how bad he or she might be from another perspective. This boy had never before played a game where the hero was, in terms of the story behind the virtual world, a bad or evil character.

    . . . (omitting six paragraphs) . . .

    The six-year-old, in playing Sonic Adventure 2 Battle, has been confronted with these two models. He has realized that when you act in (or think in terms of) the role of someone else (even a hedgehog), this involves not merely taking on a new identity but sometimes thinking and valuing from a perspective that you or others may think "wrong" from a different perspective. He also has learned that experiencing the world from that perspective (in one's mind or in a video game) does not mean accepting it in the sense of wanting, in his real-world identity, to adopt the values and the actions that this perspective underwrites.
    The bare mechanics of a game do not determine its semantic freight. Let's try a thought experiment. Let's picture a mass murder game wherein there is a gas chamber shaped like a well. You the player are dropping innocent victims down into the gas chamber, and they come in all shapes and sizes. There are old ones and young ones, fat ones and tall ones. As they fall to the bottom, they grab onto each other and try to form human pyramids to get to the top of the well. Should they manage to get out, the game is over and you lose. But if you pack them in tightly enough, the ones on the bottom succumb to the gas and die.

    I do not want to play this game. Do you? Yet it is Tetris. You could have well-proven, stellar game design mechanics applied toward a quite repugnant premise. To those who say the art of the game is purely that of the mechanics, I say that film is not solely the art of cinematography or scriptwriting or directing or acting. The art of the game is the whole.
    We do not have to imagine games that most of us would find entirely repugnant, regardless of our political perspectives. Such games actually exist. For example, a game called Ethnic Cleansing, put out by the Virginia-based National Alliance, has players killing African Americans, Latinos, and Jews as they run through gritty ghetto and subway environments. The game is fairly sophisticated technologically, or at least was for the time it was made. (It was built using free game development software called Genesis 3D.) Hate groups like the National Alliance have long recruited members through the use of websites, white-power music, and books and magazines. However, there is concern, for just the reasons we have discussed, that interactive media like video games are a more powerful device than such passive media. But if they are, then they are potentially more powerful for both good and ill.

    Whether we like it or not, new technologies make it easy to design realistic and sophisticated video games that alow players to be almost any sort of person or being living in almost any sort of world that any designer can imagine. Eventually this capacity will be used to allow people to live and interact in worlds where violence plays no role and is replaced by conversation and other sorts of social interactions. (Syberia, whose protagonist is a female lawyer wandering around a town full of automatons, is an example, as is its sequel, Syberia 2.)

    The same capacity that will allow us to enact new identities and learn to act according to new cultural models can also allow us to renew our hate or even learn new models of hate. In the end, who is to decide what identities you or I can enact and whether enacting them will be a good or bad thing for us? Publically the issue usually is couched in terms of children and teens, where parents surely bear a major responsibility, but the average video-game player is in his or her late twenties or early thirties. I don't want politicians dictating what identities I can enact in a virtual world. At the same time, I worry about people who play Ethnic Cleansing. But any attempt to stop the flow of identities that new technologies allow presents the danger of locking everyone into their most cherished identities, and that has brought us a great deal of death and destruction of its own. I have no solid answers to offer, only the claim that video games have the power to raise many such questions and issues.

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  • oldsakoldsak Registered User regular
    edited April 2010
    Worth noting: her assertion is that video games turn kids into sociopaths, but there's absolutely nothing to back this up. It's her assertion, so she technically has the burden of backing it up, but she's the professor so whatever. I mean not only is it unlikely that she's basing her opinion on statistical evidence, it's equally unlikely she's basing it on observed evidence.

    I think, realistically, your strongest argument here is going to be an appeal to emotion. Maybe talk about how difficult x illness/treatment is on a child and how having video games as an escape helps her get through it.

    Honestly, there's probably some generational divide that simply prevents her from seeing video games as a valid form of entertainment and it's unlikely that she'll come around. If it was me, I'd probably tell her that in my argument. If she advocates reading as a better use of time, there is a lot more trash literature out there than there are crap video games. Medium and quality of content are two different issues.

    Maybe the way to do it is start off with the premise that the beneficiaries of child's play are children who are truly suffering -> entertainment allows children an escape from their misery, which is good -> here you can either say (1) video games are just as valid as any other form of entertainment, or (2) video games are better than other forms of entertainment.

    oldsak on
  • DeShadowCDeShadowC Registered User regular
    edited April 2010
    video games help burn victims with pain management

    http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2008/03/080319152744.htm

    video games help autistic kids

    http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2007/06/070622183516.htm

    and so on. there are a lot of examples of modified video games being used to help the disabled and mentally challenged. You may want to talk with some computer science professors/students for more examples, I'm sure they would be happy to point you in the right direction.

    As for child's play, explain the situation fully. My understanding is that they are giving wii's and child-friendly games to sick, sick children that are pretty much stuck in the hospital. You may want to try shooting Khoo or Jerry or Mike an email to get some testimonials about Child's Play. Keep in mind that these are kids that NEED time wasters. Don't get self righteous, just lay out evidence, facts, and testimonials. You may be able to find a study that shows that kids in hospitals that are entertained by video games have less instances of depression or have better overall mental health. If you can include a picture of a grinning, cancer ridden child playing a video game you'll be all the better for it.

    Also the state of washington honored jerry and mike for child's play didn't they?

    Better person to email would be Kristin Lindsay. klindsay@childsplaycharity.org Although there are some testimonials here.

    DeShadowC on
  • KhaczorKhaczor Registered User regular
    edited April 2010
    Nostregar wrote: »
    Yeah, this is probably better suited to H/A.

    That said, here's some advice: Pick your battles. While I commend your commitment to spreading the "good word", an in-class presentation for marks is not the best venue. It sucks to have your hobby maligned, but you have to realize that it doesn't matter what you say; her mind is made up. Just pick something easy, get yourself a good grade, and don't worry about your prof's prejudices.

    Everything said here is gospel truth. Pick a nice, non-offensive topic, grit your teeth, and get through it.

    Some people actually care about the work they do for classes. If the professor gives it a bad grade because of a personal problem with video games, the OP can appeal it to a superior.

    I wrote a paper about how the old environmentalist "anti-nuke" lobby has contributed significantly to the problems of today, and is partially why the country is littered with destructive coal plants instead because they apparently expected people to just stop using electricity.

    Turned out my teacher was a huge part of that movement in the 1970s and gave me the lowest possible passing grade despite it being a reasonably well written paper. Took much complaining, but another teacher who does the same subject took a second look and gave me (the equivilent of) an A

    If there's an issue that's sticking in your craw and you know you can write a detailed, passionate paper about - don't hold back just because your teacher might not like the topic (assuming the topic you pick is one that isn't forbidden, eg: "write a paper about fruit" and you make a poem about spaceships)

    Same thing happened to on an Ayn Rand essay on the Fountainhead during High School. My teacher liked Ayn Rand a lot so my contrary(well-written) view gained me a C on it after I spent over a week working on the paper and actually getting it proofread and critiqued by my cousin who is an English professor at a pretty good university.

    Khaczor on
  • TheMadHuntsmanTheMadHuntsman Registered User regular
    edited April 2010
    OK, I have two answers for you on this. The first is the feel-good course of action; begin describing Child's Play, positive effects on kids, etc. Then, without skipping a beat, unzip your trousers and urinate upon the insolent teacher's desk while screaming "YOUR GOD IS A LIE! YOUR GOD IS A LIE!".*

    Or, of course, go over the kid friendly, socially responsible games the charity provides to kids who truly need some form of entertainment. If you must address her prejudice, mention the moral panics over D&D, comics, the television, electricity and vaccinations in their early years. Try to also mention that these games provide an interactive element that isn't present in other forms of media, as well as the fact that these games allows them to stay connected to friends outside the hospital (via Xbox live, PSN, etc.) and helps them to maintain a sense of normalcy during their otherwise painful time there. If you really wanna stick it to her, mention educational games like Age of Empires or, if you must, Brain Age.**

    Good luck on the project. SIC SEMPER TYRANUS!

    *This is a joke, obviously.
    ** Seriously, I'm kicking ass in history classes today because I read about empiricism in Empire: Total War.

    TheMadHuntsman on
  • DibsDibs Registered User regular
    edited April 2010
    Rock the presentation, but do it right - stick to the material that you're supposed to cover rather than restructuring the presentation as an attack on the professor / defense of gaming. Child's Play's merits speak for themselves, highlighting them is the key to the presentation.

    BAH to anyone saying he should back down and choose another topic. It's one mark in one university class - in the grand scheme of things the mark means far, far, less than his integrity. Integrity matters. This will be a great answer to a question at a job interview.

    Good luck, let us know how it goes.

    Dibs on
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