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Higher HP vehicles will probably still destroy you on the straights, so the hope is your improved cornering ability offsets that advantage. This is one of those things that can't really be tested until race night.. lap times are a helpful estimate, but in an actual race? Being able to stay in front is a lot more important than setting lap records.
Totally true. And things always go sideways once you get into multiplayer racing. You're always dodging understeering cars, cutting weird lines to pass in corners, compensating for car damage, and basically throwing textbook racing out the window to deal with the dynamics of other people near you.
My goal is to get the car to behave as predictably as possible so that when I do have to improvise I won't go spinning out.
In my opinion, that puts the wheel to far away from your body because it is mounted straight up from the floor and doesn't arch over your lap. It's really annoying to drive with your arms extended straight out like that.
The RX-8 just doesn't seem to have enough power to work in C class. It handles well but I've tried all three engines and I'm still a second per lap behind my Mustang around Sunset. Tried one of the class C World Championship races and got annihilated by an Evora and was fighting to hold off a Charger.
I've been finding the same thing, and I think it comes down to over-emphasizing weight in these lower car classes, especially with RWD cars. The Mustangs start with more power and consequently more straight line speed, but also a lot of weight that hinders cornering; the key to tuning here is better suspension and less weight to improve handling. Once they get on the straightaway, though, they tend to outpace the lighter cars.
In the RX-8's case, eating up too much PI with weight reduction means that nothing is left to improve the engine. You end up with a car that (especially at C-class) corners a little bit better but really lacks the expected acceleration edge considering how much HP you give up for that extra ~500 lbs of weight reduction. Add to that the fact that no matter how light your car is, engine power dictates top speed, and you have a marginally more agile but rather slow car.
Weight reductions become more important in higher classes, but in F-C you have to be sure you're balancing weight with upgrading the engine to keep up with heavier cars. Muscle cars always beat you in the straight line, but keep that speed edge as small as possible and use your inherent agility to pull tighter lines around the track. I keep weight to Level 1 or maybe 2 for the RX-8 and don't find it hurts cornering all that much.
My Elan from a few weeks back was a special case. It accelerated more quickly than it had any business doing, and the muscle cars had to give up too much speed in D-class to not all handle like Veevee's Chevelle. :P
Agreed. Well, for power to weight ratio, dropping the weight is more effective than adding engine power. Problem is, that dropping 500lbs (16%) only gets you about 4-5% more cornering force. And the lower class cars usually aren't fast enough to generate enough additional downforce for the handling improvements to beat the tradeoff in power increases.
SiliconStew on
Just remember that half the people you meet are below average intelligence.
so I just experimented with the RX-8 by turbocharging it and I think it would compete pretty well. I'm still keeping my Hyundai since I already painted it though.
so I just experimented with the RX-8 by turbocharging it and I think it would compete pretty well. I'm still keeping my Hyundai since I already painted it though.
I tend to stay away from turbo/superchargers because they drop the low end of the torque/HP curves. If the curves look good to start with, I just add HP with regular parts - especially camshaft upgrades, as long as they don't drop the curve as they sometimes do. I could be totally wrong and not know what the hell I'm talking about, but I prefer a steady curve without too much dropout on the high-end, and normally aspirated engines (especially the RX-8 rotary) get that. I'm also terrible at working out gear ratios, so I'm probably not getting the most out of the turbo powerband.
Also, I have to complain that the RX-8 engine is just so boring to listen to. But I've driven them before IRL and they're a lot of fun, so I kinda have to choose it for Thursday. It'll be cool to have a turbo/NA RX-8 battle. 8-)
Also, I have to complain that the RX-8 engine is just so boring to listen to. But I've driven them before IRL and they're a lot of fun, so I kinda have to choose it for Thursday. It'll be cool to have a turbo/NA RX-8 battle. 8-)
Try putting the R3TT Three Rotor in. Makes an angry buzz.
SiliconStew on
Just remember that half the people you meet are below average intelligence.
so I just experimented with the RX-8 by turbocharging it and I think it would compete pretty well. I'm still keeping my Hyundai since I already painted it though.
I tend to stay away from turbo/superchargers because they drop the low end of the torque/HP curves.
no problem, because the RX-8 dosent have any low end torque or HP 8-)
so I just experimented with the RX-8 by turbocharging it and I think it would compete pretty well. I'm still keeping my Hyundai since I already painted it though.
I tend to stay away from turbo/superchargers because they drop the low end of the torque/HP curves.
no problem, because the RX-8 dosent have any low end torque or HP 8-)
And yet has a pretty flat overall HP/torque curve...
So that means...why, yes, Virginia, this car is kind of shitty. B-but...rotary engine!
I just picked this up yesterday and would love to learn the ropes and get some games in sometime.
I am a huge noob though. I haven't played a racer since GT1, really.
XBL: ts0ng
I recommend the Thursday races by all means; they're what keep me in the game, honestly. Season racing is great for a while, and multiplay with pubbies can be alright, but PA opponents that yell and swear while driving weird themed races is the greatest thing.
See, thats one little gripe I have about the tuning in Forza 3.
If you put in a quick spooling turbo, you'll GET low-end torque/HP. All the Turbo setups in Forza tend to be the slow-spooling-huge-peaking-narrow-powerband type.
That being said, I'm going to pick this up again and dust it off for PA racing.
Superchargers tend to bump the high end a lot more.
Turn 10 seemed to go for the extremes to make sure there was an option for all situations. Turbo is for low end, supercharger is for high end, and centrifugal spreads evenly.
When I have the option, I usually pick the one that gives me the smoothest torque curve, makes the car less twitchy to drive.
Do you mean using the MS wheel pedals as bass drum pedals for the drum kit? Or using a Rock Band pedal as a clutch with the MS wheel?
mspencer on
MEMBER OF THE PARANOIA GM GUILD
XBL Michael Spencer || Wii 6007 6812 1605 7315 || PSN MichaelSpencerJr || Steam Michael_Spencer || Ham NOØK QRZ || My last known GPS coordinates: FindU or APRS.fi (Car antenna feed line busted -- no ham radio for me X__X )
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0Replace4DisplaceThe best girls are ships and guns.Registered Userregular
Ugliest. Car. Ever. I'll be cruising around in the mustang, I've got it tuned just about perfectly. Tires heat up to 32.5 psi with perfectly even heating between left, center, and right. I could probably get the suspension and gears tuned a bit better, but it handles perfectly for me.
And I think bob was talking about using the drums as a stand for the wheel
Irredeemably Indecisive on
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acidlacedpenguinInstitutionalizedSafe in jail.Registered Userregular
edited April 2010
you better believe I'm winning the award for best paint job tonight. . .
I'm so nervous because this will be the first Arcadians race where I'm using the wheel. For all I know I'll suck more with it (not sure how thats possible since the only way I ever get a top 4 finish is when everyone else crashes) but I'll sure have more fun.
Basticle on
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0Replace4DisplaceThe best girls are ships and guns.Registered Userregular
Yeah, I missed getting in the room...at least someone put one up. I dunno if there's a second running, but everyone I see on xzzy's friend list is in a private race. So I guess I'm the odd one out? Shitttttty...
I got my beta code just before I went home from work, told myself I would not play the beta until after the races. And after I built my car I figured "hey, I'll try it out, just play a couple games."
And I have been unable to stop playing.
xzzy on
0
0Replace4DisplaceThe best girls are ships and guns.Registered Userregular
edited April 2010
Working on getting my code, since I missed the room too.
I'm so nervous because this will be the first Arcadians race where I'm using the wheel. For all I know I'll suck more with it (not sure how thats possible since the only way I ever get a top 4 finish is when everyone else crashes) but I'll sure have more fun.
I stand corrected.
Uh my car was so uncompetitive I backed out to let Scatman take my place, I didnt realize there were so many other people waiting to play, you should start your own game.
I will create a meta-tag for us if people think that will help.. not one of those friends lists where 100 people ask for an invite, and then never play the damn game. Just one for people that show up for Thursday races (usually).
Though I guess you could use my friends list for that, I should have damn near everyone.
I will create a meta-tag for us if people think that will help.. not one of those friends lists where 100 people ask for an invite, and then never play the damn game. Just one for people that show up for Thursday races (usually).
Though I guess you could use my friends list for that, I should have damn near everyone.
Just need someone to step up and form the room.
The problem is coordinating who goes where without some sort of meta lobby to meet up before starting the races. I started a room last night after I missed the first one, but everyone I saw on your friends list was in that game already. With Scatman and myself, we could have run 6- and 4-man rooms but there was really no way to ask for volunteers to jump to the B room and even out numbers.
How many people can fit in an XBox party chat? Maybe we could all party up beforehand and organize before jumping into rooms; it shouldn't take more than a minute to count and divide.
I think things would work if we'd just get a few people who are willing to start up rooms. I know I check the arcadians thread for chatter right around 9pm, if people who don't get into the first game could drop a message that they're waiting, there's a convenient list to build a party from.
Then drop a note how many people are in the room, and I (or whoever's hosting the game) can ask for volunteers to swap over, even out the population.
If xzzy doesn't start a room, I will always form a room 5-10 minutes before 9est.
If the room is full, start your own lobby and send someone from the first room a message, asking for volunteers to switch lobbies.
Then we get the lobbies evened out, possibly even by skill level where the lower skill drivers are together and the higher skill drivers are in their own lobby.
I just wish there were a better way to communicate besides XBox messages - I don't have the text messaging add-on so it's a huge pain. I guess voice messages work too.
As for driver skill, I think there's actually a pretty good spread usually. Of course there's usually a couple people way out ahead, but for the most part it's determined by the cars/tuning, and that's always a crapshoot. The Ferrari/Lambo race really showed that.
Anyone tried finding a way to rig up the Microsoft Wheel to the Rock Band drums? Or do the drums angle throw it off way too much to be useful?
One of these days I'll develop the ability to communicate.
I meant using the drums as the table that you strap the wheel to. Seeing as how my drums are always out and in front of a chair, I didn't want to have to bring in another stool/table to strap the wheel to. And lap positions are never stable.
Maybe my opinion of Rock Band drum hardware has diminished since I bought and expanded my Ion Drum Rocker, but I'm not convinced the RB drum legs and base were built to withstand a lot of shear, just compression from drum head impacts. I feel like you'd be in danger of cracking the plastic holes the legs are inserted into, top or bottom.
mspencer on
MEMBER OF THE PARANOIA GM GUILD
XBL Michael Spencer || Wii 6007 6812 1605 7315 || PSN MichaelSpencerJr || Steam Michael_Spencer || Ham NOØK QRZ || My last known GPS coordinates: FindU or APRS.fi (Car antenna feed line busted -- no ham radio for me X__X )
Tuesday, May 11, Turn 10 and Microsoft will release a brand new 10-car pack. The downloadable Exotic Car Pack features 10 boutique cars, all from manufacturers previously not featured in Forza Motorsport 3.
Posts
Totally true. And things always go sideways once you get into multiplayer racing. You're always dodging understeering cars, cutting weird lines to pass in corners, compensating for car damage, and basically throwing textbook racing out the window to deal with the dynamics of other people near you.
My goal is to get the car to behave as predictably as possible so that when I do have to improvise I won't go spinning out.
In my opinion, that puts the wheel to far away from your body because it is mounted straight up from the floor and doesn't arch over your lap. It's really annoying to drive with your arms extended straight out like that.
Agreed. Well, for power to weight ratio, dropping the weight is more effective than adding engine power. Problem is, that dropping 500lbs (16%) only gets you about 4-5% more cornering force. And the lower class cars usually aren't fast enough to generate enough additional downforce for the handling improvements to beat the tradeoff in power increases.
I tend to stay away from turbo/superchargers because they drop the low end of the torque/HP curves. If the curves look good to start with, I just add HP with regular parts - especially camshaft upgrades, as long as they don't drop the curve as they sometimes do. I could be totally wrong and not know what the hell I'm talking about, but I prefer a steady curve without too much dropout on the high-end, and normally aspirated engines (especially the RX-8 rotary) get that. I'm also terrible at working out gear ratios, so I'm probably not getting the most out of the turbo powerband.
Also, I have to complain that the RX-8 engine is just so boring to listen to. But I've driven them before IRL and they're a lot of fun, so I kinda have to choose it for Thursday. It'll be cool to have a turbo/NA RX-8 battle. 8-)
Try putting the R3TT Three Rotor in. Makes an angry buzz.
I am a huge noob though. I haven't played a racer since GT1, really.
XBL: ts0ng
no problem, because the RX-8 dosent have any low end torque or HP 8-)
And yet has a pretty flat overall HP/torque curve...
So that means...why, yes, Virginia, this car is kind of shitty. B-but...rotary engine!
I recommend the Thursday races by all means; they're what keep me in the game, honestly. Season racing is great for a while, and multiplay with pubbies can be alright, but PA opponents that yell and swear while driving weird themed races is the greatest thing.
If you put in a quick spooling turbo, you'll GET low-end torque/HP. All the Turbo setups in Forza tend to be the slow-spooling-huge-peaking-narrow-powerband type.
That being said, I'm going to pick this up again and dust it off for PA racing.
PSN: Beltaine-77 | Steam: beltane77 | Battle.net BadHaggis#1433
Turn 10 seemed to go for the extremes to make sure there was an option for all situations. Turbo is for low end, supercharger is for high end, and centrifugal spreads evenly.
When I have the option, I usually pick the one that gives me the smoothest torque curve, makes the car less twitchy to drive.
XBL Michael Spencer || Wii 6007 6812 1605 7315 || PSN MichaelSpencerJr || Steam Michael_Spencer || Ham NOØK
QRZ || My last known GPS coordinates: FindU or APRS.fi (Car antenna feed line busted -- no ham radio for me X__X )
And I think bob was talking about using the drums as a stand for the wheel
Mine will, in fact, burn the eyes from your skull.The ugly will blow your cars sideways off of the track if I manage to pass you.
O NOESSS
I'd do it too.
Kind of.
I got my beta code just before I went home from work, told myself I would not play the beta until after the races. And after I built my car I figured "hey, I'll try it out, just play a couple games."
And I have been unable to stop playing.
I stand corrected.
Uh my car was so uncompetitive I backed out to let Scatman take my place, I didnt realize there were so many other people waiting to play, you should start your own game.
Maybe take a tally of likely racers every week and divvy over a couple rooms if necessary? Random of course.
Though I guess you could use my friends list for that, I should have damn near everyone.
Just need someone to step up and form the room.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M2ZbmQVTjHw&feature=player_embedded
So, for future reference, if a curb sends you up on two wheels.. aim for the opposite curb!
The problem is coordinating who goes where without some sort of meta lobby to meet up before starting the races. I started a room last night after I missed the first one, but everyone I saw on your friends list was in that game already. With Scatman and myself, we could have run 6- and 4-man rooms but there was really no way to ask for volunteers to jump to the B room and even out numbers.
How many people can fit in an XBox party chat? Maybe we could all party up beforehand and organize before jumping into rooms; it shouldn't take more than a minute to count and divide.
I think things would work if we'd just get a few people who are willing to start up rooms. I know I check the arcadians thread for chatter right around 9pm, if people who don't get into the first game could drop a message that they're waiting, there's a convenient list to build a party from.
Then drop a note how many people are in the room, and I (or whoever's hosting the game) can ask for volunteers to swap over, even out the population.
If the room is full, start your own lobby and send someone from the first room a message, asking for volunteers to switch lobbies.
Then we get the lobbies evened out, possibly even by skill level where the lower skill drivers are together and the higher skill drivers are in their own lobby.
As for driver skill, I think there's actually a pretty good spread usually. Of course there's usually a couple people way out ahead, but for the most part it's determined by the cars/tuning, and that's always a crapshoot. The Ferrari/Lambo race really showed that.
One of these days I'll develop the ability to communicate.
I meant using the drums as the table that you strap the wheel to. Seeing as how my drums are always out and in front of a chair, I didn't want to have to bring in another stool/table to strap the wheel to. And lap positions are never stable.
XBL Michael Spencer || Wii 6007 6812 1605 7315 || PSN MichaelSpencerJr || Steam Michael_Spencer || Ham NOØK
QRZ || My last known GPS coordinates: FindU or APRS.fi (Car antenna feed line busted -- no ham radio for me X__X )
http://uk.xbox360.ign.com/articles/108/1087221p1.html