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Bendery It Like Beckham
HopelessRegistered User regular
HopelessRegistered User regular
Yesterday morning while I was driving my little sister to school I got pulled over and told that I did not make a complete stop at the stop sign. This is false because I did make a complete stop and I know I made a complete stop because I can't get my car in to first gear without being at a complete stop, and because I made a complete stop.
The problem is I made the stop with a considerable amount of room between myself and the line, I stopped on the letters.
The intersection I was at is not a perfect + It does more of a
The asterix is where the police officer was sitting. The officer's view was obstructed by a fence and a variety of plants
in fact here is where i stopped
http://maps.google.com/maps?f=q&source=s_q&hl=en&geocode=&q=San+Miguel+rd+san+diego,+ca&sll=37.0625,-95.677068&sspn=49.043149,79.013672&ie=UTF8&hq=&hnear=San+Miguel+Rd,+Bonita,+San+Diego,+California+91902&ll=32.735293,-117.036653&spn=0.001602,0.002411&z=19&layer=c&cbll=32.735304,-117.036733&panoid=b_XT1jIE1ckpCJol9PyrWw&cbp=12,99.36,,0,5
and here is where the police officer was
http://maps.google.com/maps?f=q&source=s_q&hl=en&geocode=&q=San+Miguel+rd+san+diego,+ca&sll=37.0625,-95.677068&sspn=49.043149,79.013672&ie=UTF8&hq=&hnear=San+Miguel+Rd,+Bonita,+San+Diego,+California+91902&ll=32.735094,-117.03657&spn=0.001602,0.002411&z=19&layer=c&cbll=32.735012,-117.036574&panoid=TQKwVnh48YiNiF677tO1YQ&cbp=12,99.36,,0,5
So, I need to wait for similar conditions (over cast) to go back and take line of sight pictures, but i Also was wondering what else can help my case?
She made an error on my ticket, saying I was 25, but i doubt that helps at all. Also, she was being reviewed by a superior officer, as she was constantly asking him questions while she wrote my ticket, and he was watching her like a hawk.
I didn't say a word, only confirmed my address
Would it be sufficient to say that under the pressure of review and obstructed line of sight the officer made a judgment in error?
Anyone else fight a ticket that has some helpful hints?
The problem is I made the stop with a considerable amount of room between myself and the line, I stopped on the letters.
The intersection I was at is not a perfect + It does more of a
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The asterix is where the police officer was sitting. The officer's view was obstructed by a fence and a variety of plants
in fact here is where i stopped
http://maps.google.com/maps?f=q&source=s_q&hl=en&geocode=&q=San+Miguel+rd+san+diego,+ca&sll=37.0625,-95.677068&sspn=49.043149,79.013672&ie=UTF8&hq=&hnear=San+Miguel+Rd,+Bonita,+San+Diego,+California+91902&ll=32.735293,-117.036653&spn=0.001602,0.002411&z=19&layer=c&cbll=32.735304,-117.036733&panoid=b_XT1jIE1ckpCJol9PyrWw&cbp=12,99.36,,0,5
and here is where the police officer was
http://maps.google.com/maps?f=q&source=s_q&hl=en&geocode=&q=San+Miguel+rd+san+diego,+ca&sll=37.0625,-95.677068&sspn=49.043149,79.013672&ie=UTF8&hq=&hnear=San+Miguel+Rd,+Bonita,+San+Diego,+California+91902&ll=32.735094,-117.03657&spn=0.001602,0.002411&z=19&layer=c&cbll=32.735012,-117.036574&panoid=TQKwVnh48YiNiF677tO1YQ&cbp=12,99.36,,0,5
So, I need to wait for similar conditions (over cast) to go back and take line of sight pictures, but i Also was wondering what else can help my case?
She made an error on my ticket, saying I was 25, but i doubt that helps at all. Also, she was being reviewed by a superior officer, as she was constantly asking him questions while she wrote my ticket, and he was watching her like a hawk.
I didn't say a word, only confirmed my address
Would it be sufficient to say that under the pressure of review and obstructed line of sight the officer made a judgment in error?
Anyone else fight a ticket that has some helpful hints?
Bendery It Like Beckham on
0
This discussion has been closed.
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From the officer's view, you ran the stop sign.
Fight it. Take the pictures. Dress in a suit for the court date. Be polite. Speak elequently. That's all you can do. It's the officer's word against yours.
Whatever you do, don't play the "but she is a new officer" card because calling her incompetent will not win you any points.
I've been to traffic court once, for a BS ticket, and in court the officer admitted to having no idea as to what actually happened and filling in the blanks himself to write me the ticket. I had pictures, diagrams, etc., showing that what the police officer said happened was physically impossible. He even said to the judge that if I had not pulled over to the shoulder myself (because a cop was tailgaiting me for a quarter of a mile with no lights..) that he would not have pulled me over.
The result? The judge dropped it to a lesser charge that was a small ($200 with court costs) fine and didn't affect my insurance, so I'd be sure not to appeal.
Traffic court is bullshit. Once you realize that it makes the experience easier to handle.
Honestly? Don't even let them say "well we'll reduce it so you still have to pay us." Fuck that shit, if I stopped at a stop sign I'm not paying $200 for a no-standing just because they need to make money and fill a quota.
If your car can't even shift into first gear without a full stop, make sure to bring that up. Cite make, model, year, and explain it. Say, in eloquent words, that the officer's view was obstructed by a fence and other garbage and that ticket is bogus based on your car's capabilities.
I would use pictures to show this fact and explain to the judge that it was most likely a misunderstanding and that the officer simply couldn't see you stop from her point of view. It might also help if you made a short video showing that your car can not shift into first if it is moving at all. You can bring in a laptop or your phone and show this to the judge. I think a 30 second video will help your case although they could argue that you were in second gear. I can start moving from second in my car but it doesn't like it at all.
Just like everyone suggested make sure to dress nice, be polite and understanding, and show that you put a lot of effort into your defense.
Good luck!
After stopping at a stop sign, you look both ways to make sure the intersection is safe to cross. Since you couldn't even see the officer who was parked not 30 feet away, how would you see if there was a vehicle coming your way? What about a kid on a bicycle?
You may have made a complete stop, but it wasn't close enough to the proper place to stop so that you could safely determine if it was safe to cross the intersection. That's what is going to get you nailed.
Granted I live in Canada, buuut a friend of mine got stopped for speeding and the officer wrote up the wrong speedlimit zone (he wrote 50 zone when it was 60) and the ticket got tossed because it was written up in wrong. May not help since it's your age (and may not be that important) but i would mention it atleast.
You just never know when technicality will kick in. Oh and she was clocked doing 80.
Writing the wrong speed limit on a speeding ticket is a pretty important detail to fuck up.
Writing the wrong age on a failure to stop ticket is not, really.
That's not true.
I can stop 100 feet from the intersection and still see the stop signs. The line indicating where you should stop is there for a reason, and you can't just stop wherever you please. If you stop over the line or before the line, that's not a complete stop at the stop sign. Every time someone posts a traffic ticket question here, there are always responses based on common sense and logic. This is traffic law, not logic.
You might get away with it in court, but the ticket is correct.
I wouldn't call a car's length a reasonable distance.
Still, the cop (and her supervisor) positioned themselves in that spot for a reason--they had line of sight to cars that would be stopping (or not) at the sign. For all she knows, he could have stopped six houses before the line or six inches out of her line of sight, it doesn't matter. It wasn't at the sign.
It's a tough case, cause no one but him knows where he stopped.
I'm sorry, I didn't posit my statement with "REASONABLE FUCKING DISTANCE". Sorry, I apologize for not being pedantic enough.
For all practical purposes, IANAL, or a cop, but stopping around the line is the general rule of thumb. Even the STOP word is close enough as long as the front of your car is after them and not on or before them.
Plus, looking at those bushes, you'd pretty much have to be on or past the line in order for the cop to see you. From the cop's point of view, I can barely see the stop sign itself.
Go ahead and fight it, but the judge is going to tell you what I am telling you. Your defense is actually going to work against you.
"There was a bush in the way."
"Then you shouldn't have stopped so far back. You obviously couldn't see anything to the right of that intersection."
Go look at the google maps image again. You cannot see anyone coming on the right from where the OP stopped. Yes, other cars would technically have to stop anyway, but that's not the point. With that logic, you could just blow through the four-way as long as you don't see anyone at the signs.
Also, pedestrians and kids on bikes.
They have to stop too. And it looks like the closest you can see even at the line is about to the telephone pole.
But use some math to determine when it's possible for the cop to see you physically, or the nose of the car, and where he'd have to be. Then determine if the cop can even reasonably determine if you stopped.
Plus we're trying to advise him if the cop has anyway to know if he stopped, not if he could see a eight of a mile up the road. From where I'm sitting, unless the cop was pretty much right in the intersection (thus making people go around him too, which is bad to begin with, he probably couldn't tell if there was a ticker-tape parade there or not.
Logistically, it seems like the cop is making shit up to write a ticket, and he set up there specifically to catch people he couldn't see properly. In a word, this is a bullshit ticket and he should fight this tooth and nail.
Now if he plowed through a snowdrift into traffic at a 4-way stop, that'd be a different situation entirely.
"I stopped early yes, but I could clearly see all the spots where people would have to stop, so I could safely determine that it was my turn"
"but that's not the law"
"but it was ssaaafffeeeeee"
Two problems here.
1. read the law, someone took the time to quote you your states law, and it says "at the line" that means anything not "at the line" is failure to obey a traffic control device. eat your heart out.
2. it is not "safe" just because you could see all the stopping positions, the idea of the 4 way stop is not only to regulate the traffic safely through a 4 way stop, but to allow each driver time to assess what other drivers are on the road, or what pedestrians or bicycles or whatever else might be approaching, but not yet at the stop.
I think ultimately he probably has a pretty decent case just to prove all of this and him stating he made a reasonable attempt to stop at the line, stay in control of the vehicle, and be able to determine right of way situations.
he showed us exactly where he stopped in the OP
He flat out told us he was not on the line.
But if he can read the letters? No way in hell.
If he stopped even covering up the letters with his nose, his view is still too far back to safely see to the right.
Though, he may still be able to get it thrown out if he can prove his car can't shift into first without being stopped.
*One thing to note is that the google map view of the officers view is on the left side of the street, and the cop was on the right according the OP which should allow a clearer view.
Sure, go for it. Never know what might happen. Don't get your hopes up though. Taking everything into account, looks like it was a righteous ticket as far as the law goes.
Best bet would probably be to dress nice, state your case politely and in a matter of fact way and hope for your clean record to help you out.
It's unlikely the cop was sitting exactly where the Google Street View image was taken from. First off, the street view image is taken from the lane going away from the stop sign, while the cop was likely sitting on the other side facing the stop sign, so would have a better angle to actually see the sign.
It doesn't really sound like you have much of a case or chance. If you had a chance I'd be telling you to go for it but you really don't unless you get phenomenally lucky and to be honest you're better off just paying the ticket.
Unless failure to stop tickets are ridiculously expensive there or something.
It's never the price of the ticket that is the issue, it's the demerit points that will hike up your insurance for years to come.
With a clean record, even though I'm certain they won't just drop the ticket, they might reduce it to a charge that at least doesn't include a point deduction.
from where you say the officer was, all she could see was you driving right through the intersection, due to the fence, she is unable to see where/if you stopped
from where you DID stop, you cannot see down the road to the right
that's why they have lines. They tell you where to stop
you failed to stop at a stop sign, sorry
i say fight it, if your record is clean, you may well be able to get off with a warning
can't hurt
I drive a honda civic, so my front fender is roughly 5 feet after my front wheels.
There have been cops sitting at that intersection lately and I have a tendency to stop over lines/crosswalks if I'm not making a special attempt not to. Just a fluke and me being a socal driver. So in my attempt to be extra safe, i end up with a ticket.
"I'm a socal driver so I usually stop past the line, so this time I was trying to be extra safe and stopped before the line, then assumed it was cool to go."
I still think your best bet is not to contest it but just try to get it reduced as a first offense.
He said it was barely 3 feet from the line to the front of the car.