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Job Advice
L Ron Howard
The duckMinnesotaRegistered User regular
The duckMinnesotaRegistered User regular
Since you guys are fairly awesome, I figure I'd pose the dilemma I'm having here.
I just recently graduated from college with my full Bachelor's in Comp Sci. I wish to work as a software developer/engineer/programmer.
I have about a year and a half's, maybe two if you squint at it funny, worth of actual development experience, though none of it is in .NET as everyone wants, so finding a job is actually being quite hard.
I've been sending out my resumes and applying to everything that it looks like I might be able to qualify for - even some that I don't. So, that's not a problem.
My issue, however is that I've found another job that I'm more than qualified for, that pays more, but isn't really close at all to what I want to be doing.
There is a position out there for tech support, that I'm slightly more qualified for than what they're asking, and though it most certainly pays more, it's tech support. No one with a soul wants to do tech support. Since we're in such harsh and "bad economic times," I'm uncertain if I should apply to it for fear that I'll actually get it solely for the pay, even though it's not close to what I want to be doing at all.
One other issue I have is that if I were to get the job, this leaves me with even less time spent developing, making it that much harder to find a real developer position in a couple of years.
So, I don't know what to do. I'm sure that I'll eventually find a developer position, but I fear that if I were to go in this other direction I'll never get close again, and thus stuck in a soul-crushing tech support position forever. What do you guys think?
I just recently graduated from college with my full Bachelor's in Comp Sci. I wish to work as a software developer/engineer/programmer.
I have about a year and a half's, maybe two if you squint at it funny, worth of actual development experience, though none of it is in .NET as everyone wants, so finding a job is actually being quite hard.
I've been sending out my resumes and applying to everything that it looks like I might be able to qualify for - even some that I don't. So, that's not a problem.
My issue, however is that I've found another job that I'm more than qualified for, that pays more, but isn't really close at all to what I want to be doing.
There is a position out there for tech support, that I'm slightly more qualified for than what they're asking, and though it most certainly pays more, it's tech support. No one with a soul wants to do tech support. Since we're in such harsh and "bad economic times," I'm uncertain if I should apply to it for fear that I'll actually get it solely for the pay, even though it's not close to what I want to be doing at all.
One other issue I have is that if I were to get the job, this leaves me with even less time spent developing, making it that much harder to find a real developer position in a couple of years.
So, I don't know what to do. I'm sure that I'll eventually find a developer position, but I fear that if I were to go in this other direction I'll never get close again, and thus stuck in a soul-crushing tech support position forever. What do you guys think?
L Ron Howard on
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I was in the same position you were. I went and did the tech support to just have a steady paycheck. That experience didn't ever help on any future interviews and it was soul crushing and horrible. If I could go back in time and tell myself I'd say keep sending out resumes or even take an unpaid internship that is closer to what you want to do.
if you can find any way to live without that pay right now then do it and follow your desired career path. Of course this differs if you need the money and will be homeless and unable to eat without this paycheck, then of course take the job.
Steam
XBOX
A lot of my friends (also Comp Sci) didn't start as computer programmers but instead other positions in companies where they could move around later.
Also, screw around with .NET on your free time, then you can claim to have experience with it!
1. A predetermined departure point if it is as dead end as you think it is - say 6 months or a year.
2. Predetermined savings target. If this job really is outside of your career path save your ass off for 6 months (or whatever time you think is reasonable) so you can fund quitting and looking for work you really want.
Also, is it likely this job will be an employer you can use to get training that would be any use to your preferred career path?
I know that there are a lot of CS programs that aren't so theoretical and are very applied (instead of classes like, Discrete Math, Operating Systems, Compilers, Graphics, etc, they have C++1, C++2, Advanced C++, COBOL 1, etc). I suspect that companies looking for people from these schools would in fact be searching for someone with the exact skill set they are expected to use on the job.
Personally, if you think you can do better, I would not take a tech support or helpdesk role, because you will be pigeonholed in that role forever and be severely limiting your growth potential. Find a job that will provide good experience, because if you ever need to find another one down the road, you don't want to put yourself in a position where your experience is deemed useless.
As for getting a job, unemployment isn't covering me because "the contract expired" == "I quit the job," according to them. I am appealing it, but it's only a matter of time until my bank account runs out and I start dipping into my savings. And who knows if the appeal will even go through.
I'm tooling around with C# right now, but that's not the same as having years of solid professional development with it. So I can, at best, add it onto my resume and say that I know it, though I don't have anything as substantial as having produced something for someone on that same professional level.
I've heard that you can make things on your own and put them up for free on the internet, and cite that you did it as a private contractor or something, but I'm not quite there yet.
My last job was a QA/Tester contract position that ran out at the end of April - a week before I graduated actually. I tried to do what I could to stay in with the company or move around, but that didn't work out. Also, doing QA/testing, I believe, is not different than doing the help desk; i.e. I'll be stuck only getting those kinds of jobs forever, and I'll never actually move to where I wish to go.
I don't believe that there's any way I'll move around with the company. I don't even for which company it is. It's through a staffing company, meaning that they just want someone to fulfill the contract for the year or two or whatever. I'm sure that that's the same as the last position, where I can make friends and allies, but I won't ever be hired on as a full time developer in that company. If you guys want, I can even post the link here.
I'm still unsure if I should try, because I don't want to end up doing tech support forever, but I also like to eat.
Also, not sure what you're doing but all the companies where I've worked moving from QA to Development has always been a viable (and company preferred option). The Company gets you oriented with their system, business practices and software in QA then moves you to development.
Some other stuff you can try:
1) Go to social entropy++.
2) Find the job thread, the one with JoeUser.
3) Post your credentials, what you're looking for and the areas you're willing to work.
4) Watch the miracle unfold.
Seriously, that thread has gotten so many jobs for people.
People switch entire CAREERS in their lifetimes. What may happen is you get a job like that, you do it for a year, two, three and you go to school and get more experience/a masters and then jump to what you'd like to do and never look back. It'll be hard to work and do that, but you will do it because you want a good future.
Or you network and find a job that you can switch to. You explain the situation to contacts and they help you out because your situation is absolutely normal and makes a lot of sense. Plus hiring someone who wants to do the job? Works well!
So figure out how long you can comfortably live and if you are within ... sheesh... what do you guys think, 3 months or half a year? of being out of the ability to sustain yourself without a job, take what you can get for now.
Accepting a job does not doom you to one place/kind of work forever. Not even close.
very true, don't rule out QA. It is more of an "in" than tech support or help desk. Also in past QA jobs I have done development and shown off dev stuff by making in-house tool style programs.
Steam
XBOX
When you say two years experience do you mean actual professional experience? If so I find it hard to believe you can't find a development job anywhere. The specific language you have experience in isn't that important for an entry level position, any competent manager will know it's that hard to pick up a new language. Having direct experience is a plus but hardly required. Are you sure you're not doing anything wrong in the application process? Maybe look up some advice on writing a cover letter, resume, etc?
And it's not like I'm not getting anything either. I have had a couple of phone interviews, and I do have a real interview tomorrow. Probably another to come one next week. But the ones who are biting are mostly contract houses. Take that for what you will.
Your best bet for full time work is to start contract and go full time from there.
This is anecdotal, but my experience has been that C# .NET positions typically pay better and have bigger companies behind them. I would definitely suggest picking up an intro to C# book and getting to work learning it. Go to local .NET user groups or Python / Perl user groups if available, as you can usually network job contacts there. I'd also check your campus for a career center to see if they can arrange any interviews with things more towards what you want.
That's what I used to do in web design, and people were impressed during my interviews. Now I work in security so it's kind of hard to demonstrate a presentable, but come up with something interesting and own it.
I'm unclear if you're already working as a developer or in a closely related position or not. If you're not working, take the support job. It's a pay check, it's at least technical, and if you really want to do software dev and enjoy it, you'll find time. Trust me, even if you get a job as a developer, you'll have your own projects that you want to do and will have to find time for anyway, and you'll need to if you want your skill set to continue growing.
If you're actively working right now in something closely dev related, I wouldn't make the jump to tech support to get higher pay. I worked my way from phone support to full time dev/software engineer work and it was a rough road. Tech support blows. It also tends to get you into a nasty cycle of recruiters only calling you about more tech support jobs since that's what you've got experience in most recently.
Doing some C# work is definitely a good idea. If you'd like to stay on the unix/linux side of things (I assume you were doing perl and python in a *nix environment), you should also look into Java. Lots of corprorate web stuff and intranet stuff uses Java. J2EE is a bit of a bitch for personal projects, though, unfortunately.
We "might" (if things go well with a couple of projects) be looking to hire a jr level perl developer in the next 6 months or so. If you're in the richmond, va area or would consider moving here, pm me a copy of your resume.
Where are you looking for jobs? Where did you go to school and what was your GPA? Were you involved in any clubs/organizations? What type of development do you have experience with, and what would you like to do going forward?
I'm a developer myself, PM me your resume and I can look it over if you'd like. Also, we can discuss if the company I work for might have any opportunities.
There's definitely no motivation for finding a job like being broke, but if there's no way you can float for very long, you might consider the tech support job and keep sending out resumes on the side.
Also, in the meantime, you can work on your chops by finding open source projects to work on in your free time.
but for your future bottom line (i.e. greater advancement and pay in the industry), taking ANY programming work will be better... this is the constant vicious circle... you need experience to be hired, and you need to be hired and work to gain work experience
if you can't find programming work, get yourself on a low paying or even free gig....
some anecdotes: i started off with a shitty $25K/yr job after a YEAR of not finding work after college, just to get my foot in the door of the programming field... and quickly advanced beyond that. My income is still lower than friends who got programming jobs immediately, but it's significantly higher than those who chose to temp, work in retail, or do whatever other BS employment just to get a paycheck and started in comp-sci only when the economy improved....