Relocating Advice: So. California to [Austin, TX/Indianapolis, IN/Other?]
sidhaethe
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Background:
So, we’re looking to move. We’re in this house (which we love, I don't regret our buying it, situation notwithstanding) for at least the next two years in order to keep our tax credit and more importantly in the hopes that we can get more for it than we paid. We really just want to be able to recoup the down payment, as that would go a long way in a lot of markets. Also, we are both trying to get into trades in order to increase our earning potential and employability, so we’re not running into a new market blind (we're both college graduates, and he's one course away from his Master's, but that hasn't been of much use to us recently).
We are currently considering Austin, TX, and Indianapolis, IN. for two places that have extremely low housing costs compared to SoCal – we could get a house comparable with ours for half the price - with lower unemployment (and the hopes that both of these factors will still look good in a few years). I don’t really know how to compare the two locations as to which is better suited for us, so I’m hoping someone here can pitch in with anecdotal evidence, etc. Or suggest somewhere else! That would be great, too.
Things we are unwilling to budge on: Weather. I hate lots of rain and cool summers, he hates sub-zero winters (2 months of just below freezing, i.e. high 20’s is as low as he’ll go). Also, home ownership. We want to be able to buy a home, not condo, wherever we go (this is more important to him than me).
Other things that might be important to know about us:
We are an interracial (black/white) couple, childfree
We are politically liberal, left and growing left-er by the minute
We are both atheists
Hope that’s enough info. As I said, we’re not going anywhere just now (unless someone can make a good case for how we could do so without losing our down payment and ending up financially shaky), but we want a good sense of what we’re striving for over the next 3-5 years. Thanks in advance!
Hey, so my fiancé and I live in SoCal and last year bought a house together in Corona after searching all over Orange County (where we previously lived) for something in our price range (~$60k household income and a $40k down payment, based on what we were paying for rent for a 1br apt.). After not being able to find anything not in gang country, we ended up here, where housing prices didn’t seem to be dropping any further (backed up by housing market analysts like Doctor Housing Bubble and others).
Of course, at that point, my fiancé ended up unemployed due to education budget cuts, so we’re now living off my $40k salary. We have managed to budget well enough that we’re not in danger of not being able to make our payments – we’re fine on that front – but we are not really able to get any savings going, and I can’t get a raise (or a better job, believe me, I’ve been looking).
We know that this will eventually pass, and if we hold out, even my fiancé being able to get a job – any job – will start pumping money back in, but after the past couple of years we’re kind of… frustrated would be a kind word, with California and the cost of living, the commutes, etc. I mean, I used to live in Illinois and was making out better with just over half my current salary.
Of course, at that point, my fiancé ended up unemployed due to education budget cuts, so we’re now living off my $40k salary. We have managed to budget well enough that we’re not in danger of not being able to make our payments – we’re fine on that front – but we are not really able to get any savings going, and I can’t get a raise (or a better job, believe me, I’ve been looking).
We know that this will eventually pass, and if we hold out, even my fiancé being able to get a job – any job – will start pumping money back in, but after the past couple of years we’re kind of… frustrated would be a kind word, with California and the cost of living, the commutes, etc. I mean, I used to live in Illinois and was making out better with just over half my current salary.
So, we’re looking to move. We’re in this house (which we love, I don't regret our buying it, situation notwithstanding) for at least the next two years in order to keep our tax credit and more importantly in the hopes that we can get more for it than we paid. We really just want to be able to recoup the down payment, as that would go a long way in a lot of markets. Also, we are both trying to get into trades in order to increase our earning potential and employability, so we’re not running into a new market blind (we're both college graduates, and he's one course away from his Master's, but that hasn't been of much use to us recently).
We are currently considering Austin, TX, and Indianapolis, IN. for two places that have extremely low housing costs compared to SoCal – we could get a house comparable with ours for half the price - with lower unemployment (and the hopes that both of these factors will still look good in a few years). I don’t really know how to compare the two locations as to which is better suited for us, so I’m hoping someone here can pitch in with anecdotal evidence, etc. Or suggest somewhere else! That would be great, too.
Things we are unwilling to budge on: Weather. I hate lots of rain and cool summers, he hates sub-zero winters (2 months of just below freezing, i.e. high 20’s is as low as he’ll go). Also, home ownership. We want to be able to buy a home, not condo, wherever we go (this is more important to him than me).
Other things that might be important to know about us:
We are an interracial (black/white) couple, childfree
We are politically liberal, left and growing left-er by the minute
We are both atheists
About the above two points, we have lived in both Orange County and now in Riverside County, surrounded by Republicans and churches…. It’s “okay” and we don’t get much flak, but it would be great if we could get out of this kind of situation
We are both con-attending types (gaming, sci-fi, and anime) so it would be lovely to be within, say, 2 hours’ drive of a good conHope that’s enough info. As I said, we’re not going anywhere just now (unless someone can make a good case for how we could do so without losing our down payment and ending up financially shaky), but we want a good sense of what we’re striving for over the next 3-5 years. Thanks in advance!
sidhaethe on
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East coast near Virginia might be another option. But I'd probably stay away from Midwest. Try Indianapolis though, I've heard good things about that area.
I cannot speak with authority on comparisons specifically between Cali and Tex w/r/to living expenses vs. income.
We have lower living expenses, but also lower compensation for a lot of entry to mid-level positions (IMO). It being the seat of government for Texas, pretty liberal for Texas, and with UT we're still a net population draw. All those students means a lot of educated competition for part-time and entry-level positions. No state income tax. Sales tax runs 8.25%. But we do have annual property tax (initially about 2-2.25% of the home value). We have some toll roads, but they are at the periphery of town. Texas has beaten the nation on unemployment, and Austin is amongst the lowest unemployment in Texas, but I believe the state is experiencing a budget shortfall, and bond initiatives tend to all pass.
From your self-description I'd think you both would like it here. Also Austin has a fair number of outdoorsy types and outdoorsy things to do.
We're also the home of Alex Jones.
:P
Indianapolis, on the other hand, is said to be more racially diverse. But I can't find much more information than that.
What bowen said about NorCal is interesting - I did not know that housing was less expensive there, I thought it was insane as well... though, how are the summers? I visited some friends in San Francisco in June one year and it was dismal. I like my hot, egg-cooking sidewalk summers.
edit: also, gun ownership is cool with us, despite the left-leanings. My fiance's Swiss - he was born to shoot
I guess what I'm getting at is that the grass (or desert) isn't always greener on the other side of the Sierra Nevadas. The market everywhere is pretty bad, but maybe you'll have better luck.
Define northern California? The Bay Area is just as bad, if not worse, than Orange County. If you mean Sacramento, then sure, but then you have to live in Sacramento.
Chico, Red Bluff, Redding, Auburn, Shasta, Nevada City...
What do you do for work?
I'm originally from Chico, CA and I can tell you that shit gets CHEAP when you go north of Sacramento. It's around a 3 1/2 hour drive from San Francisco and has no snow, gets cold maybe two weeks a year and has zero humidity. If you like hot summers, uh... yeah they've got that shit covered.
It's a college town (city) so it's very busy with stuff to do during the summer.
I've spent some time in the East Bay (Oakland side of the bay) out towards Concord, Walnut Creek, Oakland etc. You can live at a reasonable price if you move to somewhere like Concord or Martinez, and we have a rail system to get to the big areas of SF and Oakland.
I'm currently looking to relocate to Nashville though, as unemployment is becoming a statewide problem and I want to get while the gettin' is good. My parameters are pretty much the same as yours.
I know dozens of people from Nashville, Austin and Charlotte and they all really really liked them.
You should fly out to wherever it is you want to go and look around though, if you plan a little in advance Southwest Airlines has pretty cheap flights, as low as 149$ each way round trip. Which is also something to consider if you like conventions. The money you would save in just flying to someplace with conventions vs trying to live near them might be pretty substantial.
edit: Have either of you ever lived somewhere with high humidity?
That shit could be a deal breaker so far as Austin goes.
Neither of us has lived in a high-humidity location, no (he's spent most of his life in SoCal, and I grew up in the Canadian midwest, with a brief detour to Illinois, before coming here). I have, however, spent many summers in the West Indies, so I have an idea what it might be like (not pleasant, I know). It's a concern, but we're not sure it's a deal-breaker. We would definitely have to check it out - although wouldn't it seem worse if we just visit in the middle of a humid summer rather than being acclimatized to it? I know from experience that winters seem brutal if you just fly somewhere in the middle of December rather than having experienced the fall first.
Yeah, as you mention, unemployment is a problem state-wide, so I'm not even sure that relocating to Northern California will help much if we can't get work.
It's not hugely diverse here (though I suppose that's rather subjective), most people are white or latino, though there is a sizeable East Asian population. Everyone looks white or brown at casual glance.
My wife and I are an inter-racial couple (East Indian/White) and we've never felt any static about it, though not being black I cannot speak to it from a black perspective.
If you like it hot, you'll like it here. We had like 30+ consecutive triple digit days last summer. Also it's nice enough to barbeque like 9-10 months out of the year; when I had a convertible I only kept the top up for 2-3 months (outside of rain). We also cannot deal with cold weather, 1/2" of ice will shutdown the city (usually happens once a year).
Edit: Humidity, right now it's kinda rough. This is about the time of year when it is (still getting some precipitation and heat is just starting to ramp up). Usually most of summer is just bakingly hot dry heat cause we're in a drought, though it depends on how wet a summer we get.
Long story short, don't sell your house for $400k in Los Angeles and go buy a $400k house in Texas.
Ditto on Indianapolise housing prices - although it seems nobody here is making a plug for Indianapolis? Hmmm.
You might want to update the the thread title to indicate the cities you're interested in so forumers there know to check in. I only initially looked into this thread by chance.
You should be concerned, especially as the real estate market recovers. When your house goes from being worth $200k to $350k in five years and your property tax bill goes up by that same percentage, that's a big deal and it can get you into trouble if you're not prepared.
California is weird that way- our appraisals are capped at a 3% increase per year by law unless the property is sold. The rest of the country isn't so friendly to homeowners, and Texas' high property taxes makes that even more important.
It rains and rains and rains though in the part where it's actually cheaper, and the Bay Area is more expensive than anywhere except Hawaii (and maybe New York, we kind of seesaw on where's more expensive).
Also unemployment is worse up here than it is down there for the most part.
EDIT: Also Austin is a bastion of Liberal sensibilities in the middle of a Red Sea. Seriously, they'd fit in fine there, and if they're looking for Tech jobs it's probably the third or fourth best place to be in the US depending on what they're looking for (After the Bay Area, Seattle, and the Northeast coast).
I hear nice things about the place, so if you don't mind the weather (since you mentioned Illinois, I'll assume that you don't), then give that a shot in my opinion.
Same problem as with Northern California, it RAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAIIIIIIIIIIIIIINNNNNNNSSSSSS.
Only it's even worse up there.
If you can find work, you don't mind living in a small(ish) town, and you can deal with having a rainy winter it sounds like you really might like Grass Valley or Nevada City OP.
Have you researched this at all?
We have both applied for surveying apprenticeships and are basically waiting to be called to become indentured. We have actually looked into this quite a bit and surveying is a profession that is in relatively constant demand and not as affected by construction slow-downs as construction jobs are.
We are focused on housing prices because we are looking at our monthly expenses as a whole. If we can live on $40k with our current mortgage, how much would we have to earn to live on less than half the mortgage, etc. After a lot of number crunching, we realize that even with a pay cut in a cheaper housing market, we would not have to earn nearly as much in most markets in order to maintain the same standard of living (as I compared earlier, with my standard of living vs. salary when I lived in Illinois).
In other words, right now, I can't leave my job for a temp job that pays $10/hr because we couldn't live on that here. With the kind of mortgage prices we're seeing in Austin, we both could if worst came to worst. Not that that is our goal in life, because a surveyor's salary is many times that, but it's nice to know we don't haaaave to turn down a shitty low-paying job if that's all we can get (which I have done, because the unemployment I got from being laid off on a $41k job paid more than the offers I was getting).
(full disclosure: we are in the 200k market here, looking at 90-100k in North Austin/Pflugerville, with $40k down.)
@Perpetual & Fagatron - I heard all kinds of good things about Oregon (mostly in the scenario of telling someone we were looking for a house here and having them tell us of a friend/relative/co-worker who bought an AMAZING spread in Oregon for something like pennies), but I have also heard not good things about their unemployment. The information about the weather is helpful, though!
And yeah, I lived in Illinois before my fiance and I met and it was fine for me, but a wee bit cold for my fiance's liking (though he likes the way houses are built there). Also, job market; if unemployment were lower in the North Chicago burbs we would probably have it on the short list.
So, that's a no on Northern California I guess.... I have some friends in Sacramento who had offered to help us find jobs there, but they're not doing so well themselves in this market so.....
@cabsy thanks for the insight into Indianapolis. It doesn't sound super weather-wise... but what's it like there, people-wise, politically-speaking, etc? Any observations?
Curious about this remark. I grew up in Grass Valley and this comment made me
I think the worst problem you'll run into is traffic if you stick to a good neighborhood. However, jobs in education are suffering due to budget problems like most cities I believe.
You may want to check out some real estate websites, but I don't think 100k is going to get you much in Austin, especially North Austin. Pflugerville may be different.
Really? I was under the impression that you could by a mansion with a swimming pool for 150K in Texas.
The weather here isn't that great a lot of the time. Right now it's alright. But the humidity can be extremely stifling a large majority of the year. Fall is fantastic here though, both weather wise and it's just beautiful because of all the leaves changing colors. Winter can be really miserable, especially if you are not used to a lot of cold/ snow. Winter can be really hit and miss here. There's usually not too many times a year when it snows, but the winter in general is just gray, miserable, and cold here.
I grew up on the east side of town but currently live in the north east side, it's pretty decent here. The north side of town is pretty nice. I know it's a good time to buy a house here, i have several friends who are doing just that.
But yea, I'm more than happy to answer any questions you might have about Indianapolis. I don't own a home here, but my parents have owned a home in Indy for almost 30 years, so you know, I can always ask them questions since I am at there house at least once a week.
Forgot to add: since you're into cons, Gen Con is SUPER fun. They have it at the convention center in August every year, so I would definitely say that is a huge plus if you live in Indy, since you can easily drive there. Plus, I don't have any details but I have heard there tends to be a lot of good cons in Ohio, which isn't too far a drive away from Indy.
Southside is a nice side of town to live on as well.
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Are you entirely set on living up north? The south has really populated a lot lately, and there's been a big business boom down here. The wife and I rarely need to venture up north past the river that bisects downtown for anything. Pflugerville houses I believe run in the same range, and the area is sought after because they're known to have very good school districts.
South of Austin is Buda and Kyle where $250-$300k will buy you a very lovely 3000sqft home, but they also have subdivisions that are new for $110-$120k.
Also, being an interracial couple won't pose a problem here.
Just an uninformed person spouting BS. North of Sacramento can be a beautiful area.
Not any place you'd want to live. Snide comments aside, it depends. Like anywhere else, housing values vary considerably even within a municipality. A friend just bought a house for 3/4 mil and it's blocks away from houses that are 300-400K.
If you want to buy a house somewhere you might want to move down and rent for awhile while you feel out the area. I'd recommend that for anyplace you might want to move, not just Austin. My parents have been visiting more or less on a monthly basis for over 2 years and are only just getting comfortable with the area and figuring out which neighborhoods they like.
Maybe he was making a comment about jobs? My (completely uninformed) opinion was that if you wanted jobs that required a degree, going north of Sacramento was a bad idea. Unless you were teaching at Chico or something.