[Chaos] Chaos in the Old World - Use the new thread

Darian

If I'm a player and it is to my benefit, I'll definitely point out how many dial tokens so and so is likely to get, particularly if I'm not in a position to tie them. Any area control/combat game like this has a degree of negotiation elements to it, and that sort of table talk is important. You need to make sure that others know who the biggest threat (other than you) is and that they are doing their part to slow that player down.

Skiddles

My only concern around this area is seen more in cooperative games, when people start telling you what you HAVE to do, because it's the BEST MOVE (period).

But given how competitive this game is, I don't see that being too much of a problem. Although I could certainly see someone being overzealous in helping a newbie and essentially playing for them (out of helpfulness).

Joe Dizzy

It came up during our last game, when Khorne (who's the most knowledgable about the game and its strategies) kept pointing out what Slaanesh and Nurgle were up to. Tzeentch was kind of outmaneuvered after about half the game, trailing after the others in VP and dial turns.

For the most part Khorne was more or less in the lead. In turn 5 or 6 it came down to whether Slaanesh or Khorne would double-click, leaving them only one click away from winning the following turn. With Slaanesh ahead of Khorne in VP, Khorne pointed out how the game was likely to wrap up should Slaanesh get two dial tokens. In the end Khorne won the game, leaving Slaanesh somewhat frustrated for having his plans exposed by the more experienced and dominating player and subsequently destroyed by the interference of Nurgle and Tzeentch.

I'm not sure how to handle this now. Should I tell Khorne to keep his insights to himself, instead of exposing everbody else's plans in order to damage them? Especially, when he is in the lead? Or should I tell Slaanesh to accept that this is just part of regular table talk? Admittedly he tends to like/dislike a game often based on whether he just won. I have yet to see him like or praise a game, that he lost.. or dislike and criticise a game that he won. So he might have just been venting his frustrations at losing there. Or he might have a legitimate point, I can't really tell.

I'm undecided how to deal with this - since I really enjoy playing this game, but it's hard to find people who are willing to put up with the game's complexity, so if it all possible I would like to keep these players together.

What are your thoughts? How would you handle this kind of conflict of playstyles?

Sterica

You should really be talking to the Tzeentch and Nurgle players and how Khorne manipulated them into aiding him. Tell Slaanesh that diplomacy is a part of the game, and the one benefit Khorne has is that he is rarely is under the radar and thus will expose other players when he can.

Sterica

Your situation is rather odd, as in my experience most players hate Khorne and will fuck his ass if they are in a kingmaker position.

susan

Joe Dizzy wrote: »

It came up during our last game, when Khorne...

I still don't think that Khorne did anything wrong here, and there were plenty of ways for the other players to respond to his suggestions.

Slaanesh to Nurgle/Tzeentch: "Why are you listening to Khorne? Look at the Board! He's winning! He's the most experienced, most dangerous player here! Do you really think he's trying to help you? Don't do what he says!" (then Slaanesh suggests some actions to Nurgle/Tzeentch to neuter Khorne, while coincidentally leaving Slaanesh open to walk to victory)

It's just table talk, about things that are completely visible on the board. Don't get frustrated, get even 8-) .

Mordenthral

Sounds like Slaanesh needed to speak up and poor-mouth his situation, like susan said, and better conceal his plans with some trickery.

Hippie

Can I be put on the list to play again?

Go team Tzeentch!

Darian

Games 21 and 23 just finished up (go Slaanesh!), and 20 is on its last moments. I'll start up the next game or two soon (other hosts always welcome, as well).

SeGaTai

Put me down on the new players list-sadly a newb no more

Darian

Invitations are out for game 25 to the top four names on the list:
FWD
admanb
Gene Parmesan
abotkin

If any of them are unwilling/unable to play (I'll give them until Wednesday), I'll keep moving down the list.

Darian

Game 25 is underway with the invited crew.

It's closing in on time for the next Game of Champions, and I need opinions on the following topics:

1. Should I open it up to all champions, or only champions since the last GoC (game 14)?
2. Should previous participants of the GoC be eligible to participate again?
3. Should The Cow King, winner of the first GoC, be given automatic entry, or should we start building a group for a Grand Championship after we have four GoC winners?

Also, we need to figure out why Khorne is so weak in our metagame. He hasn't won since game 5.

susan

Darian wrote: »

Game 25 is underway with the invited crew.

It's closing in on time for the next Game of Champions, and I need opinions on the following topics:

1. Should I open it up to all champions, or only champions since the last GoC (game 14)?
2. Should previous participants of the GoC be eligible to participate again?
3. Should The Cow King, winner of the first GoC, be given automatic entry, or should we start building a group for a Grand Championship after we have four GoC winners?

Also, we need to figure out why Khorne is so weak in our metagame. He hasn't won since game 5.

My answers, which are TOTALLY NOT SELF-SERVING AT ALL, would be:
*All Champions.
*Hmm... Leaning towards "Everyone but the Winner" (Cow King).
*Grand Champion!

Aegis

Waaaagh to start off a game is incredibly hilarious. Unless you're Khorne in which case I think you want to imagine each peasant as a Greenskin and viscously murder them.

The Cow King

I'd like to be put back on the list please!

All Champions, previous participants, and Grand Championship!

Khorne's almost won a lot, it's just seems right when hes about to win the other three gods jump into a dice blocking mad house.

I also think the old world hurts Khorne more then the others. He most often has the most threat, which usually is only the loss of a figure but if electors or greenskins show up Khorne has a lot more work to do.

Mordenthral

I'd like back on the list too.

Sterica

Darian wrote: »

Game 25 is underway with the invited crew.

It's closing in on time for the next Game of Champions, and I need opinions on the following topics:

1. Should I open it up to all champions, or only champions since the last GoC (game 14)?
2. Should previous participants of the GoC be eligible to participate again?
3. Should The Cow King, winner of the first GoC, be given automatic entry, or should we start building a group for a Grand Championship after we have four GoC winners?

Also, we need to figure out why Khorne is so weak in our metagame. He hasn't won since game 5.

1. I say since 14 for reasons I'll get into.
2. Yes.
3. No, I'd prefer a Grand Championship game as it'll give us a more diverse set of championships and then a really awesome championship.

You could even have a noob championship game composed of winners from our noob-only games.

Khorne loses a lot in our metagame because A) He's hard to play and Dice.

Ryadic

Been a while since I played a game of this (even IRL), so sing me up for a game. I just want in on one.

Darian

Game 20 just finished up; nearly an Old World victory, but Slaanesh pulled out the surprise win. (Well, it surprised Tzeentch, at least.)

Khorne and Slaanesh were each one tick away from their DIAL victories; close game, and well-played by all. Starting up another soonish.

Aegis

I really need to sign back up to get on the list again.

Capfalcon

I guess I'll get back on the list too.

TheLawinator

Could I get my name back on the list?

Edit: Ugh seems like others thought the same.

Sign up

Nought

I think one of the reason Khorne has trouble winning is that every one else is very afraid of loosing their figures, and so does everything they can to stop him.

I wish I knew how to fix it, but if I get to be Khorne in game 26 I'll try my best.

edit:

Hmm. Looking at the Two games Khorne won, they were close games even though Khorne had a fair amount of double ticks. And one game had a perfect concentration of Noble and Warpstone tokens near the populous regions to help concentrate the other players.

jakobagger

Moar!

I would like to get back on the list, pretty please with warpstone on top.

Gene Parmesan

Sign me up again, please.

Thanks

Sticks

I would like to play in one of these.

Variable

wooo creeping to the top of the OP list yaaay

I played khorne in our last real life game and actually had a lot of fun trying to dictate where people went. I don't know that I'd pick khorne as what I most want to play but it did make me like him more than I did before.

Rius

Sweet; Darian and I are foes once again in the next game. Unless he runs it

Variable

gameplay question: when nurgle is allowed to remove one corruption token, does that count warpstones?

Mordenthral

Nope

jsciv

I play this f2f all the time, but have never done it on a forum before. I'd love to sign up and play. I'm not a Chaos noob, but I'll need help getting colors and card draws and dice rolls and all of that stuff figured out. Still, if there's room for more on the list I'd love to play!

Skiddles

There's always room on the list

Speaking of which, I guess I can sign up again, now that the whole newborn situation is settling down and my life is trending more toward normalcy.

susan

Babies can take care of themselves after the first couple weeks.

Gene Parmesan

Man I have to say this, Screw Greenskins Invade. It's a pretty severe hit against Khorne.

jakobagger

Gene Parmesan wrote: »

Man I have to say this, Screw Greenskins Invade. It's a pretty severe hit against Khorne.

Have you tried Electors Sue for Peace? That's pretty lame as well. No battle dice at all in Bretonnia and The Empire.

Sticks

Are there similar world events that target Tzeentch, Nurgle, and Slaanesh?

Because Khorne never seems to win anyway. So it seems kind of harsh to go after him like that.

jakobagger

Well, "The Grail is Found" could probably be argued to be mostly anti-Nurgle, but also Tzeentch and Slaanesh potentially. No corruption placed in Bretonnia and one other (adjacent?) region. Probably some other cards as well, but overall my impression is the Old World cards hate Khorne the most. Except for the "Plunged Into Chaos" cards (points for peasants).

Sticks

See, that's just weird to me.

The only justification I can think of is if face to face games favor Khorne (because things move quicker?), then the old world cards are compensating for that advantage.

Or maybe the creators of the game just really don't like Khorne...

jsciv

Well, there are a couple that cleanse corruption tokens from regions. In our last f2f game, Bretonnia was under that effect the entire game (The Grail is Found I think it was) and nobody other than Khorne ever went there (Tzeentch kept teleporting excess Khorne figures there). If you can't ruin a region it's really not worth staying there.

Edit: ah, beat to the punch. So I'll also mention that there's one that clears out all cultists in the region with the most corruption and then moves on to the next one the next turn and so on; that's another event that really hoses the non-Khorne contingent.

jakobagger

Face-to-face games I've played has mostly seen everyone band together against Khorne. The few times we didn't, Khorne won. But there's certainly an issue where it's somewhat harder to see in a face-to-face game who's in the lead and stop them than in PbP.

Khorne is just very luck dependent. Lately I've been thinking that concentrating on a VP strategy early might be a way to get around this.