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Warhammer:I Paid $123.75 and All I Got Was This Lousy Book
Ziac45
Registered User regular
Registered User regular
WARHAMMER: THE GAME OF FANTASY BATTLES
Aren't Toy Soldiers for Nerds?
Yeah, but nerds have money and toy soldiers are more awesome than most other things you can waste your money on. Warhammer refers to a fantasy setting and a number of distinct tabletop and computer games. This thread is concerned with the original, a tabletop miniatures wargame.
General Information on the game
Warhammer: The Game of Fantasy Battles, formerly Warhammer Fantasy Battle and often abbreviated to Warhammer, is a tabletop wargame created by Games Workshop and the origin of the Warhammer Fantasy setting.
The game is played with 'regiments' of fantasy miniatures. It uses stock fantasy races such as humans, elves, dwarfs, undead, orcs, goblins, vampires, as well as some more unusual types such as lizardmen, skaven, etc. Each race has its own unique strengths and flaws; Wood Elves, for example, have some of the most powerful archers in the game but have poor overall defense.
Since first appearing in 1983, Warhammer has been periodically updated and re-released with changes to the gaming system and army lists. The current official version is the seventh edition, released on 9 September 2006.
Games Workshop wrote:
In a nutshell, each player collects an army of Citadel miniatures. Then, using the Warhammer rulebook as a guideline, they fight epic battles against their fellow generals. Dice (like you'd find in almost any board game) are used to determine success and failure: to decide whether an arrow hits its target, or whether a magical power works, for example. Each game is played, not on a regular 'board' but in a special gaming area where models are not confined to 'squares' but are free to move as their controller wishes. Because Warhammer is not played on a set game board, tape measures or rulers are used to see how far a miniature can move - a horse can run faster than a stumpy-legged Dwarf, after all.
The game is played with 'regiments' of fantasy miniatures. It uses stock fantasy races such as humans, elves, dwarfs, undead, orcs, goblins, vampires, as well as some more unusual types such as lizardmen, skaven, etc. Each race has its own unique strengths and flaws; Wood Elves, for example, have some of the most powerful archers in the game but have poor overall defense.
Since first appearing in 1983, Warhammer has been periodically updated and re-released with changes to the gaming system and army lists. The current official version is the seventh edition, released on 9 September 2006.
Games Workshop wrote:
In a nutshell, each player collects an army of Citadel miniatures. Then, using the Warhammer rulebook as a guideline, they fight epic battles against their fellow generals. Dice (like you'd find in almost any board game) are used to determine success and failure: to decide whether an arrow hits its target, or whether a magical power works, for example. Each game is played, not on a regular 'board' but in a special gaming area where models are not confined to 'squares' but are free to move as their controller wishes. Because Warhammer is not played on a set game board, tape measures or rulers are used to see how far a miniature can move - a horse can run faster than a stumpy-legged Dwarf, after all.
Setting
The Warhammer story, or background, is vast. It begins tens of thousands of years before the current day with the Old Ones: beings of vast power that sailed between worlds on a sea of infinite potential (known as the Warp, Aethyr, or Realm of Chaos). Armed with incomprehensible techno-magicks and knowledge, the Old Ones raised the races of the Warhammer World from barbarism, teaching elf and dwarf how to draw upon the Realm of Chaos to shape extra-dimensional potential into physical forms… or magic, and bestowing upon them the joys of enlightened civilization. This golden age ended too soon, however, as the Old Ones were exterminated or driven away by things from the Aethyr: the daemons of Chaos and Ruinous Powers native to that Realm. Given form and purpose by the Warp-reflected flaws of mortals, these daemons invaded the Warhammer World, ending the age of Law and advancement brought about by the Old Ones. Many millennia later, the children of the Old Ones continue the battle against Chaos.
It is important to note that there are many, varied, implementations of Warhammer lore; none are more "right" or "official" than others. To put it quite simply, according to GW: THERE IS NO WARHAMMER CANON. Players are free to pick, choose, and research the bits they like.
WHERE DID GAMES WORKSHOP COME UP WITH THIS STUFF?
Warhammer's imagery and style are influenced heavily by gritty, classic fantasy authors, such as Michael Moorcock, Robert E. Howard, and H.P. Lovecraft, as well as real-world history and a bit of Tolkien. Designers also list influences such as Terry Gilliam, Black Adder, and Monty Python. The Warhammer world is a playground-like amalgam of everything from Napoleonic gun lines, to sanity-blasting tentacled horrors, to halfings and their giant cocks (depictions of a large rooster that serves as a provincial symbol for the little folk). Those interested in learning more might be urged to pick up some of these older books; Warhammer's roots are clearly evident in Conan, Elric, and Martin Luther.
THE WARHAMMER WORLD
The unnamed (to its inhabitants) Warhammer world roughly resembles our own. Maps can be found here. At the "heart" of the known setting is the Old World, analogous to Earth's Europe. Here one finds the human nations of the Empire, Bretonnia, Kislev, brutal Nosrca, Tilea, and Estalia as well as the remnants of the Dwarfs' ancient empire beneath the mountains. Scattered pockets of wood elves (both civilized and less so…) share lands with the Empire and Bretonnia. To the south, past the rogue settlements of the Border Princes and orc-infested Badlands, lie trackless deserts. Cut through by the great River Mortis, the ancient, dusty realm of Nehekkarha lies not-as-silent as it should be, duly earning its title as the Land of the Dead. Past here, one finds the mysterious human nation of Araby, rife with proscribed cults and unknown magic, with the dark jungles of the Southlands engulfing the rest of the southern continent. Nothing but sun-mad orcs and the remains of the Old Ones' world live here.
To the east lie the dead plains of the Dark Lands, choked with the fumes of Chaos Dwarf industry. Yet further east, in the Mountains of Mourn, are the Ogre Kingdoms. These inhospitable vaults are dotted with the scattered ruins of forgotten civilizations and shaggy prehistoric beasts, pierced in the south by the Silver Road, the sole not-so-safe route between the lands of the Old World and mysterious Far East. Of the kingdoms of Ind, Cathay, and Nippon little is known; other than that the presence of Chaos.
In the middle of the Great Ocean hides Ulthuan, the last great holding of the Asur, first and favorite children of the Old Ones. This magic and mist enshrouded isle contains the kingdoms of the High Elves, including mystical Avelorn and stately Eataine; recently opened to outsiders by the Phoenix King Finubar. Unknown to most of the Warhammer world, Ulthuan is of critical importance. In ancient times, the elves created a vortex of Chaos energy, woven of the structure of the island itself. This vortex drained the Chaos-stuff feeding daemonic legions after the fall of the Old Ones, allowing the elves to fight back and forestall the end of the world. Were this vortex to ever fail, Ulthuan would sink beneath the waves, heralding the final invasion of Chaos.
West of Ulthuan one finds the brooding forests and icy mountains of Naggaroth, the Land of Chill. Now refuge of the Druchii, exiled for millennia from Ulthuan, this is a land as cruel as its inhabitants. To the south is fabled Lustria, where the seat of the Old Ones lies rotting in the jungles. Overseen by things blindly following the edicts of the lost Old Ones, many attempt to enter these jungles to secure the gold and riches within. A few even make it back.
Finally, at the very ends of the Warhammer world lie madness and infinity. The collapsed interdimensional gates of the Old Ones spill Aethyr into the material, and thoughts of mortals into the Realm of Chaos. Surrounding the northern pole gate are the Chaos Wastes, lands of blended Warp and Material, realms of madness, eternal war, and the whims of the Chaos Gods. No one can leave this place entirely untouched by Chaos.
To the east lie the dead plains of the Dark Lands, choked with the fumes of Chaos Dwarf industry. Yet further east, in the Mountains of Mourn, are the Ogre Kingdoms. These inhospitable vaults are dotted with the scattered ruins of forgotten civilizations and shaggy prehistoric beasts, pierced in the south by the Silver Road, the sole not-so-safe route between the lands of the Old World and mysterious Far East. Of the kingdoms of Ind, Cathay, and Nippon little is known; other than that the presence of Chaos.
In the middle of the Great Ocean hides Ulthuan, the last great holding of the Asur, first and favorite children of the Old Ones. This magic and mist enshrouded isle contains the kingdoms of the High Elves, including mystical Avelorn and stately Eataine; recently opened to outsiders by the Phoenix King Finubar. Unknown to most of the Warhammer world, Ulthuan is of critical importance. In ancient times, the elves created a vortex of Chaos energy, woven of the structure of the island itself. This vortex drained the Chaos-stuff feeding daemonic legions after the fall of the Old Ones, allowing the elves to fight back and forestall the end of the world. Were this vortex to ever fail, Ulthuan would sink beneath the waves, heralding the final invasion of Chaos.
West of Ulthuan one finds the brooding forests and icy mountains of Naggaroth, the Land of Chill. Now refuge of the Druchii, exiled for millennia from Ulthuan, this is a land as cruel as its inhabitants. To the south is fabled Lustria, where the seat of the Old Ones lies rotting in the jungles. Overseen by things blindly following the edicts of the lost Old Ones, many attempt to enter these jungles to secure the gold and riches within. A few even make it back.
Finally, at the very ends of the Warhammer world lie madness and infinity. The collapsed interdimensional gates of the Old Ones spill Aethyr into the material, and thoughts of mortals into the Realm of Chaos. Surrounding the northern pole gate are the Chaos Wastes, lands of blended Warp and Material, realms of madness, eternal war, and the whims of the Chaos Gods. No one can leave this place entirely untouched by Chaos.
Armies: Who's killin' who Information Stolen From GW’s Site.
Beastmen: Within the dark heart of the twisted and dangerous forests of the Old World dwell hordes of Beastmen, true children of Chaos. Preying on the weak and striking without warning, the Beastmen are a plague on the civilised world, murdering and slaughtering with abandon.
Brettonia: The Knights of Bretonnia are renowned for their skill at arms, their bravery and chivalry. A Bretonnian army is an impressive sight; ranks of knights with fluttering pennants adorned with personal heraldry, backed up with scores of filthy, low born peasants.
Daemons of Chaos: The Daemons of Chaos are warlike fragments of divine will loosed upon the world. Blasphemous abominations drawing raw power from the Chaos Gods themselves, they are the ruination of civilisation.
Dark Elves: Cold and heartless, the Dark Elves launch terrible raids on the lands of the Warhammer world, enslaving thousands and burning civilizations to the ground. Every day the Dark Hosts of Naggaroth sacrifice hundreds of souls on the altars of the Lord of Murder.
Dwarfs: The Dwarfs are tenacious and determined warriors with unparalleled weapons, created by their Runesmiths, they defend their holds from Orcs and Skaven. Remembering every affront, Dwarfs miss no opportunity to settle grudges with the edge of an axe
The Empire: Since its founding the Empire has endured terrible invasions. Through years of bloodshed, this land of Men has stood fast through faith and steel, its tireless citizen soldiers and valiant heroes, surviving against the innumerable foes that assail it from all sides.
High Elves: The armies of the High Elves are glittering hosts of steadfast spearmen, deadly archers and proud cavalry. Exceptionally skilled warriors, the Elves are led by mages who are masters of magic and heroes who command mighty Dragons of days past.
Lizardmen: Long before the rise of Elves, Dwarfs or Men, the Lizardmen existed deep in the jungles of Lustria. A dangerous civilization of hulking reptilian warriors and gargantuan monsters, led by the bloated Slann, they seek to restore order to the world and will mercilessly punish any who stand in their way.
Ogre Kingdoms: Far to the east of the Old World lie the savage Ogre Kingdoms, a land of eating and fighting. A single Ogre, with his massive frame and boulder-like gut, has enough brute strength to sack a village and an army of such monstrous warriors, the power to destroy empires.
Orcs & Goblins: Orcs and Goblins are the scourge of the Warhammer world, an unending tide of ferocious raiders trampling a swathe of destruction across the land. Orcs and Goblins are angry creatures that live to fight, their only goal is to rampage and slaughter.
Skaven: The Skaven are a race of evil rat-men that fester in the dark places of the world. Eternally scheming and plotting their races ascendancy. Skaven March to battle in great hordes, swarming towards the foe in a mass of frenzied fur and black-clad assassins.
Tomb Kings: The ancient Kings of Nehekhara march forth from their tombs to seek vengeance on the world. Loyal even in death, the armies of the Tomb Kings march with them, ensuring ranks of gleaming bone, with bronze and gold, will be the last sight of many a foe.
Vampire Counts: The Vampire Counts are a perilous threat to the Old World. Stronger, tougher and faster than any mortal, Vampires are deadly foes that summon Undead hordes to wage war upon the living
Warriors of Chaos: From the far north come the legions of Chaos, led by mighty champions of the Dark Gods. Raised in battle, these great warriors fight for glory and the favour of their gods, seeking immortality and everlasting power.
Wood Elves: The Wood Elves of Athel Loren are mysterious, secretive beings. Merciless with those who enter their realm, they are masters of ambush and the greatest archers in the world. In war they unleash the full fury of the forest, as Elves fight alongside Forest Spirits
Brettonia: The Knights of Bretonnia are renowned for their skill at arms, their bravery and chivalry. A Bretonnian army is an impressive sight; ranks of knights with fluttering pennants adorned with personal heraldry, backed up with scores of filthy, low born peasants.
Daemons of Chaos: The Daemons of Chaos are warlike fragments of divine will loosed upon the world. Blasphemous abominations drawing raw power from the Chaos Gods themselves, they are the ruination of civilisation.
Dark Elves: Cold and heartless, the Dark Elves launch terrible raids on the lands of the Warhammer world, enslaving thousands and burning civilizations to the ground. Every day the Dark Hosts of Naggaroth sacrifice hundreds of souls on the altars of the Lord of Murder.
Dwarfs: The Dwarfs are tenacious and determined warriors with unparalleled weapons, created by their Runesmiths, they defend their holds from Orcs and Skaven. Remembering every affront, Dwarfs miss no opportunity to settle grudges with the edge of an axe
The Empire: Since its founding the Empire has endured terrible invasions. Through years of bloodshed, this land of Men has stood fast through faith and steel, its tireless citizen soldiers and valiant heroes, surviving against the innumerable foes that assail it from all sides.
High Elves: The armies of the High Elves are glittering hosts of steadfast spearmen, deadly archers and proud cavalry. Exceptionally skilled warriors, the Elves are led by mages who are masters of magic and heroes who command mighty Dragons of days past.
Lizardmen: Long before the rise of Elves, Dwarfs or Men, the Lizardmen existed deep in the jungles of Lustria. A dangerous civilization of hulking reptilian warriors and gargantuan monsters, led by the bloated Slann, they seek to restore order to the world and will mercilessly punish any who stand in their way.
Ogre Kingdoms: Far to the east of the Old World lie the savage Ogre Kingdoms, a land of eating and fighting. A single Ogre, with his massive frame and boulder-like gut, has enough brute strength to sack a village and an army of such monstrous warriors, the power to destroy empires.
Orcs & Goblins: Orcs and Goblins are the scourge of the Warhammer world, an unending tide of ferocious raiders trampling a swathe of destruction across the land. Orcs and Goblins are angry creatures that live to fight, their only goal is to rampage and slaughter.
Skaven: The Skaven are a race of evil rat-men that fester in the dark places of the world. Eternally scheming and plotting their races ascendancy. Skaven March to battle in great hordes, swarming towards the foe in a mass of frenzied fur and black-clad assassins.
Tomb Kings: The ancient Kings of Nehekhara march forth from their tombs to seek vengeance on the world. Loyal even in death, the armies of the Tomb Kings march with them, ensuring ranks of gleaming bone, with bronze and gold, will be the last sight of many a foe.
Vampire Counts: The Vampire Counts are a perilous threat to the Old World. Stronger, tougher and faster than any mortal, Vampires are deadly foes that summon Undead hordes to wage war upon the living
Warriors of Chaos: From the far north come the legions of Chaos, led by mighty champions of the Dark Gods. Raised in battle, these great warriors fight for glory and the favour of their gods, seeking immortality and everlasting power.
Wood Elves: The Wood Elves of Athel Loren are mysterious, secretive beings. Merciless with those who enter their realm, they are masters of ambush and the greatest archers in the world. In war they unleash the full fury of the forest, as Elves fight alongside Forest Spirits
Where Can I buy these plastic men?
The War Store Offers a good discount and has the full GW line http://www.thewarstore.com/zWARHAMMERFANTASYBATTLE.html
There is also Games Workshops own site http://www.games-workshop.com/gws/home.jsp
Ebay can also have some spectacular deals on second hand minis http://toys.shop.ebay.com/Fantasy-/44409/i.html?_catref=1&_jgr=0
Or there may be a Local Game Store that carries things or a GW battle Bunker. These can be found at http://www.games-workshop.com/gws/storelocator/search.jsp. As a disclaimer if you plan on playing in a local store you are best to do your shopping at the local store. This helps the store and gets you in the owners good graces.
There is also Games Workshops own site http://www.games-workshop.com/gws/home.jsp
Ebay can also have some spectacular deals on second hand minis http://toys.shop.ebay.com/Fantasy-/44409/i.html?_catref=1&_jgr=0
Or there may be a Local Game Store that carries things or a GW battle Bunker. These can be found at http://www.games-workshop.com/gws/storelocator/search.jsp. As a disclaimer if you plan on playing in a local store you are best to do your shopping at the local store. This helps the store and gets you in the owners good graces.
8th Edition Video Goodness!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L2lGQfeEJT8&feature=player_embedded
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kL9MGlQWBJk
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WQ_x-EGCXdk&feature=player_embedded
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kL9MGlQWBJk
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WQ_x-EGCXdk&feature=player_embedded
Rumor has it the new starter set will be Island of Blood, Featuring Skaven and High Elves to be released in September.
A guide to Warhammer books
Books who's most recent release is their 6th ed edition:
Tomb Kings (Jan 2003)
Bretonnia (Feb 2004)
Ogre Kingdoms (Jan 2005)
Wood Elves (Aug 2005)
Dwarves (Mar 2006)
Books who's most recent release is their 7th ed edition:
Orcs & Goblins (Oct 2006)
Empire (Jan 2007)
High Elves (Nov 2007)
Vampire Counts (Mar 2008)
Daemons of Chaos (May 2008)
Dark Elves (Aug 2008)
Warriors of Chaos (Nov 2008)
Lizardmen (Feb 2009)
Skaven Released Late 2009 Early 2010 (Don’t remember actual date)
Beasts of Chaos (2010)
Books likely to be released next:
Rumors (As far as I’ve heard, anyone with better Info PM me and I’ll update) point to Tomb Kings, Or Orcs and Goblins as Next
Did some editing of Alazull’s OP, if anyone has anything they want in hit me with a PM gonna add some more stuff (Such as places to buy) tonight or tomorrow.
Ziac45 on
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Posts
Hordes - Going 10 wide is all well and good, but against 5 wide 20mm units, you're only getting 7ish of your 10 models into combat (assuming you're 20mm also), so you're wasting some models there. Also, if you're 10 wide, chances are the other guy is deeper than you, which means he is stubborn, not you. Finally if you're 10 wide, stone throwers with their new no-partials rule basically cannot fucking miss you. Or how about a scraplauncher shooting the big pie plate instead of the little one, hitting all partials and getting killing blow? Just to get 1 more rank of attacks, I really dont know if hordes are going to be a smart move for everyone. Not being able to afford to run deep enough to outrank slimmer units to gain Steadfast is a big part of that.
Speaking of stonethrowers - No more guessing range AND all partials hit was 'wtf' until I heard about the other changes. First, they are str3 with the center hole hit being str 9, and second you now get armor saves against them. I like that change a lot. Second, stonethrowers can now target units they don't have LoS to, but with a caveat. Indirect fired stonethrowers will always scatter. If a hit is rolled you use the little arrow on the hit marker. The crews reduces the scatter by inches equal to their BS.
Random charging - Love it. One thing I hate about the previous editions is opposing mv4 infantry doing the 8 inch dance, with both sides afraid to commit. My understanding of the new rules is that charges will be declared and then charge reactions declared before the dice are rolled. This means you may find yourself the target of a stand and shoot even though your charge failed. Mv 6 or less models roll 2d6 and add their base move. If their charge fails they move a number of inches equal to the highest of their 2d6 - i.e. if you roll a 3 and a 1 for charging, and come up short you only move 3 inches. I like the variables this adds to the game.
Frenzy- Lot of interesting changes to it. Frenzied units can now be baited by enemy units that are [mv + 12"] away and to counterbalance that, frenzied units can now take a ld test to restrain. I like. Frenzy no longer conveys the extra attack to the mount. I play chaos and ogres so I am happy and sad. Frenzied troops don't benefit from the HW+Shield ward save. Kinda makes sense, I suppose, and is a good counter to the extra attack.
I think cavalry have gone from "Irresistable Force" to "Great supporting unit for infantry". I think that's really good for the game, overall.
EDIT: OP Hammer picture is last years non-jetpack model, apparently. Not that I'm complaining, I hate that goddamn space-hammer.
I went from cautiously optimistic to outright excited.
The other thing about charging now is that it's no longer absolutely necessary to win (unless you're cavalry, of course) since it only adds +1 to your combat res and doesn't affect either strike order or who hits back.
Also; the new, improved Lore of Metal is exceedingly boss. For ex: spell six turns dudes to solid gold, killing them outright, then forces guys that can see this test for stupid on account of "ooh, shiny!"
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Because seriously fuck flying units anyway, thats why.
Neither of my armies have any
Ok, well dragons, but have you seen how much those fuckers cost?
You have Manticores as well.
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Yeah, it's been rumoured (and now confirmed by in-store demos) that it was M+2D6 for a while now. Maybe the confusion comes from WotR? M+D6 is the War of the Rings charge distance, so if people were saying "charges are random like in WotR" that would do it.
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One thing I'm a bit worried about is the "if you have a special weapon you MUST use it" rule.
I was planning on modeling a lot of my WoC with shields and xhws, and not being able to choose between the xhw and the shield is a bit of a dampener on that idea.
Who cares, they still strike last.
Hrm... this would drastically reduce the usefulness of Stormvermin, unless halberds become not shit.
Speaking of which, for something oft complained about, I don't see a single rumor concerning halberds anywhere...
Because if its high, its good.
Empire halberdiers don't seem to get much from the new rules aside from supporting attacks.
Good.
No, but with good high skaven init you just get to strike first with them. Though, now that you ALWAYS counter attack with 2 full ranks regardless of casualties, it hardly matters.
The entire book is fucking gorgeous and oh God it makes me want to do a Khorne WoC army now that frenzy is better.
Also, what's the new balance point? 2k? 3k? 1850? How many points are we talking here to get to the "common law" game value.
As someone who just picked up the Fantasy rulebook last fall and started messing around with Dark Elves, what are the major differences I should be aware of?
I actually sat down at the game store for a good 4 hours today and read pretty much the entire rules section.
Lords can be up to 25% of your armies points
Heroes 25%
Special 50% with a maximum of 3 of the same unit
Rares 50% with a maximum of 2 of the same unit
Those are all maximum percentages allowed
Core have to be minimum of 25% of your army.
This stops my army from taking Karl Franz on a dragon (600 odd points) in 2000. It really helps limit the over powered characters and hero crushing that has been occurring.
Halberds also are pretty much exactly the same for the guy asking about them earlier.
I didn't either, but it is kinda odd that the armies they are given away for the contest are 3,000 points as well. It just seems to back a rumor that GW isn't going to officially come out and say.
Off the top of my head:
But the main attribute is something like spells cast on flying creatures does an extra D6 of hits, or does d6 hit in addition to the normal effect, or something like that.
I think the signature spell is the thunderbolt spell that does 1d6 S4 hits in 24', and can be scaled up to 2d6/36' and 3d6/48'.
Chain Lightning is something like 1d6 S6 hits on a unit, and on a 4+ you do another 1d6 S6 hits on a unit within 12 inches, and you keep doing this until either you roll a 3 or lower, or you run out of units for it to chain to.
Comet of Casandora works much like it did before, except that it is no longer RIP and the you deal an extra wound for each marker on it.
The straight reroll spells are gone, but you get two other spells. A buff and a hex that grant and forces rerolls on 1's and 6's respectively on attacks, wounds, and armor saves. Both can be scaled up to affect all allies within 12' or enemies within 12'.
I may be mixing it up with a different lore with that last one, though.
Now that great weapons have their disadvantage back, I expect more players to start fielding halberds, at least as an experiment, unless it becomes horribly clear that they still suck.
Also, all the rumours and stuff say 50% for specials, can you re-check?
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Is anything in the main book? or do you think they'll all be FAQd/released in PDF after the fact?
Well, maybe not Black Orcs and other things with crappy Initiative since they weren't striking first anyways