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HD 5750 problem (solved, kinda)

epburnepburn Registered User regular
I tried searching for something similar to this; if it's in here, I apologize and would appreciate a link.

My NVIDIA 8800GT bit the dust. I have an old GIGABYTE GA-K8N Pro-SLI mobo. I replaced the 6600 with an ATI HD 5750 from Sapphire.

Or at least I tried to. The card fan spins and lights go green but the computer monitor never budges out of standby.

Using the crippled NVIDIA I can load windows in about a 640x?, 4 color res. I used that to install the latest ATI drivers. But I never pass go. The monitor still doesn't respond. I don't have onboard video, so I don't have an alternative to diagnose what's happening.

I have a ridiculous PSU (550W) so I don't think that's the problem. What am I missing? I've Googled around on the problem and see things that are close, but not my issue.

Appreciate any help from the ATI fans in here. I had high hopes for finally fixing this desktop this evening.

epburn on

Posts

  • TetraNitroCubaneTetraNitroCubane The Djinnerator At the bottom of a bottleRegistered User regular
    edited June 2010
    I'm not trying to be contrary, but this sounds exactly like an issue I was having with my PSU a while back after upgrading my videocard. Long story short, overall Wattage doesn't really mater one bit if the card isn't getting enough juice off the 12 V rail. What brand and model of PSU are you using? If you don't know, what does it have listed as the amperage on the 12 V rail (should be on a sticker on the actual PSU itself)?

    Alternatively, have you tried multiple cables from the PSU to the 5750? Again, I'm not trying to be a dick, but the only reasons I've ever seen a video card unable to show the BIOS post are (1) insufficient power or (2) dead card.

    Edit: Also, you should be able to boot into windows sans-drivers. It's usually best to just uninstall the old card's drivers, remove the old card and replace it, then boot into Windows. After bypassing the automatic driver search, then it's typically okay to go ahead and install the new drivers. Of course, from the issues you're describing here, I gather that you're not even getting a signal before the drivers load at all...

    TetraNitroCubane on
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  • epburnepburn Registered User regular
    edited June 2010
    Don't worry about being contrary. It's been five years since my last full build and I'm posting in here because I'm obviously missing something. I'm using a Mad Dog MD-550WPS. +12v/30A/360w/-12v/1A/12w.

    I'll start fiddling with the other PSU cables.

    counter-edit: yeah, I never even get that far. If I could even see it the normal startup information scrolling by, I'd be comforted.

    epburn on
  • TetraNitroCubaneTetraNitroCubane The Djinnerator At the bottom of a bottleRegistered User regular
    edited June 2010
    I hate to say it, but that might be a little underpowered for the card you're trying to run. If you have a manual for the card, I'd check out what power requirements it explicitly lists. From what I've found anecdotally from Googling around, scattered forum posts seem to indicate the card might require 40A on the 12V rail. Unfortunately NewEgg's requirements and the manufacturer don't seem to specify what's up other than needing 450W and 1 75W six-pin connector. If the power requirements are in fact that high (on the 12 V rail), unfortunately you'll need a new PSU to make the card work.

    The same exact thing happened to me: My PSU a while ago was well over output spec for the new card I bought, but the 12 V rail sagged below the requirements, forcing me to buy a new PSU.

    Edit: I'll also admit that I'm not terribly familiar with the Mad Dog brand when it comes to PSUs.

    TetraNitroCubane on
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  • epburnepburn Registered User regular
    edited June 2010
    Do you have a brand recommendation then? At least this theory makes sense.

    I've been going through the different four-pin connectors to no avail. The card came with a 1x4pin converter - also have a 2x4 that was part of the NVIDIA.

    edit: Except ATI claims I shouldn't have power problems.

    - 50 Watt or greater power supply with one 75W 6-pin PCI Express® power connectors recommended (600 Watt and two 6-pin connectors for ATI CrossFireX™ technology in dual mode)

    Could you link me to what you're seeing that suggests a 40A requirement? I'm not seeing it.

    epburn on
  • TetraNitroCubaneTetraNitroCubane The Djinnerator At the bottom of a bottleRegistered User regular
    edited June 2010
    The biggest brands that I see discussed with the most enthusiasm include Antec, OCZ, Enermax, ThermalTake, PC Power and Cooling, and Corsair. Personally, I go with Corsair after being burned by Antec a few times, but that's just personal preference. Checking around on NewEgg in the reviews sections will typically give you a good idea of what people are experiencing with various brands and models. Again, this is all just personal preference from me - others may have better or more insightful suggestions.

    If you decide to replace the PSU, just be sure to familiarize yourself with the return process where ever you pick it up. In the event that replacing the PSU doesn't solve your issues, it should be fairly painless to get your money back. Either way, good luck man. I know what it feels like when what should be a happy upgrade turns into a chore.

    TetraNitroCubane on
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  • surrealitychecksurrealitycheck lonely, but not unloved dreaming of faulty keys and latchesRegistered User regular
    edited June 2010
    I have a ridiculous PSU (550W) so I don't think that's the problem.

    I used to have problems with a 700W psu with my old 4870x2.

    Non-brand PSUs just aren't worth the hassle :(

    surrealitycheck on
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  • SatsumomoSatsumomo Rated PG! Registered User regular
    edited June 2010
    The 8800GT has a higher power consumption than the 5750...

    Satsumomo on
  • epburnepburn Registered User regular
    edited June 2010
    Satsumono, that's kind of what I thought, too. I dropped the money on a PSU since I just can't come up with another explanation.

    Kind of feel like if it was a mobo, I wouldn't be able to limp along with the old card. If it was a dead card, it seems like it should behave differently.

    It's not as if having a better PSU will hurt anything... just not money I wanted to spend.

    Appreciate everyone's help on this.

    epburn on
  • TetraNitroCubaneTetraNitroCubane The Djinnerator At the bottom of a bottleRegistered User regular
    edited June 2010
    I agree with both of you guys, Satsumomo and epburn. From the official lines I'm seeing along reviews and requirements, the 5750 should be fairly energy efficient - But I'm not finding any official requirements in terms of the amperage on the 12 V rail. If I Google for ATI HD 5750 "12 V", then I see some chatter on Tom's Hardware forums about needing 40 A on the 12 V. Of course, this is anecdotal, and I'm not comfortable saying that this is the problem for sure. I don't really know if it's worth linking to, because it's the equivalent of "some guy said". However, I'm just remembering exactly what I went through, where I was sure it couldn't be the PSU - but despite the label and the printed requirements, it was. Sometimes PSUs just age, and start to underdeliver.

    Epburn, one thing I did when I was having this problem was to actually take a multimeter to my PSU to measure the voltage and amperage on the 12 V rail. I was doing this with an Antec PSU, thinking that it was a solid brand. The 12 V rail was sagging considerably (I don't remember the actual voltage it was outputting, but it was less than 11.4 V), despite what was printed on the label. If you can get a hold of a multimeter, you can use this guide to help you check out what you're getting from your PSU. Personally, I would do only the test on the 4-pin Molex - just ignore the part where you disconnect the PSU from the mobo and short it to turn it on (I've always thought that sounds dangerous). It's pretty easy and not hard at all to test your 12 V rail this way once the computer is running. I'd also test it under load, if that's in any way possible. If the numbers look good (12 V, ~30-40 A), then maybe it's time to RMA the card. If the voltage or amperage is low, then it might be worth replacing the PSU.

    I agree with surrealitycheck about off-brand PSU units, but while I've never heard of Mad Dog, I have been able to spy a couple of reviews online about them. Not entirely sure what to make of them, but in the end taking a multimeter to your system might answer the question more definitively before buying a new PSU.

    TetraNitroCubane on
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  • epburnepburn Registered User regular
    edited June 2010
    I live in a geographical anomaly (minimum two hours from everything), which makes it a pain in the ass to procure any kind of components locally at normal expense. I went ahead and pulled the trigger on a corsair that is rated for the card anyway (newegg had it cut way down in price). It's going to end up being easier to RMA or return with them than deal locally.

    epburn on
  • MugsleyMugsley Registered User regular
    edited June 2010
    I know there's a PSU list here somewhere because I posted in it. In short, you made a good choice.

    Reputable/solid PSU manufacturers:

    OCZ
    Corsair
    PC Power & Cooling (now owned by one of the two above; can't remember which)
    Cooler Master
    Seasonic


    Antec, Tt, and Enermax have had their issues in the past. Not that they are bad, but you can get a more reliable PSU for the same price from one of the manufacturers above. PSUs are also one of the few areas where heft = good. If it feels flimsy in any way, it's got crappy components.

    While no longer an issue, my old rule was to spend at least $100 on a PSU. If you're going to spend upwards of $400 on a quality video card, why spend $40 on the component sending it power? As I said, you can get quality PSUs for $60- $70 now, so this rule is moot.


    Hopefully the PSU and RMA fix your issue. Let us know if it doesn't.

    Mugsley on
  • SatsumomoSatsumomo Rated PG! Registered User regular
    edited June 2010
    I agree with both of you guys, Satsumomo and epburn. From the official lines I'm seeing along reviews and requirements, the 5750 should be fairly energy efficient - But I'm not finding any official requirements in terms of the amperage on the 12 V rail. If I Google for ATI HD 5750 "12 V", then I see some chatter on Tom's Hardware forums about needing 40 A on the 12 V. Of course, this is anecdotal, and I'm not comfortable saying that this is the problem for sure. I don't really know if it's worth linking to, because it's the equivalent of "some guy said". However, I'm just remembering exactly what I went through, where I was sure it couldn't be the PSU - but despite the label and the printed requirements, it was. Sometimes PSUs just age, and start to underdeliver.

    Epburn, one thing I did when I was having this problem was to actually take a multimeter to my PSU to measure the voltage and amperage on the 12 V rail. I was doing this with an Antec PSU, thinking that it was a solid brand. The 12 V rail was sagging considerably (I don't remember the actual voltage it was outputting, but it was less than 11.4 V), despite what was printed on the label. If you can get a hold of a multimeter, you can use this guide to help you check out what you're getting from your PSU. Personally, I would do only the test on the 4-pin Molex - just ignore the part where you disconnect the PSU from the mobo and short it to turn it on (I've always thought that sounds dangerous). It's pretty easy and not hard at all to test your 12 V rail this way once the computer is running. I'd also test it under load, if that's in any way possible. If the numbers look good (12 V, ~30-40 A), then maybe it's time to RMA the card. If the voltage or amperage is low, then it might be worth replacing the PSU.

    I agree with surrealitycheck about off-brand PSU units, but while I've never heard of Mad Dog, I have been able to spy a couple of reviews online about them. Not entirely sure what to make of them, but in the end taking a multimeter to your system might answer the question more definitively before buying a new PSU.

    This here is a post that gets updated frequently with VGA power consumption.

    Satsumomo on
  • MugsleyMugsley Registered User regular
    edited June 2010
    You can't hurt your PSU by shorting via the ATX connector because that's how you turn the power on for your system (your power button closes the circuit). You're basically just bypassing your motherboard and power switch. Connect the green wire with any black wire using either a paper clip or a small piece of wire.

    Several review sites do this to record PSU fan noise, among other features (off the top my head, check reviews at www.3dgameman.com).


    There should be software available that will monitor your power usage when your computer is up and running. Pretty much any hardware monitoring program should do it for you (i.e. Speedfan). If you can find a reliable software package, that's the best way to check your voltage and current under load.

    Mugsley on
  • TetraNitroCubaneTetraNitroCubane The Djinnerator At the bottom of a bottleRegistered User regular
    edited June 2010
    In my experience, software measurements for power consumption are bunk. You'll never get a reading that matches using a multimeter, and the multimeter is obviously going to be more accurate. I didn't know that about shorting the ATX connector, though. Thanks for the info on that. I'll feel a little safer if I ever have to do that in the future!

    Also, great link Satsumomo. That's certainly getting filed away. And I'm completely aghast at the power consumption of the new 400 Series Nvidia cards. Holy crap that's a lot of power they pull... I wish these lists had current requirements on there instead of just wattage numbers, though. Even if you've got a 1kW PSU, it's not worth jack-all if you're only getting, say, 20 A on the 12 V rail.

    TetraNitroCubane on
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  • MugsleyMugsley Registered User regular
    edited June 2010
    Luckily, all the important add-in components (HDDs, optical drives, vidcards, water pumps, etc) run off the 12V supply, so most quality PSUs have more than enough head room and/or mulitple rails.

    I agree with you about multimeters vs. software. I'm just trying to think of a different way to measure power consumption downstream of the PSU without cracking open the case.

    Mugsley on
  • epburnepburn Registered User regular
    edited June 2010
    Welp.

    Hooked up the new PS and I've actually regressed. Now neither card will display anything on the monitor. Pretty frustrated to fly blind... no error messages, no nothing. I'm incredibly confused now that the old card won't play with the superior power supply. I ended up with a 600W Cooler Master Silent Pro (which is pretty nice, very, very quiet). It has a dedicated six pin straight out of the PS.

    Now what?

    thank god edit: OK, old card resuscitated and I'm at least not baffled. That was extremely confusing.

    So I guess the first card was DOA? It lit up, fan runs, but I don't get any video signal out of it. The monitor knows it's attached to card but never leaves standby. I have a 6 pin plugged directly in (it's an 8-pin cord, but the final two are separate, it's a 6-pin connection. Still no POST beep codes.

    I sat there and watched the read light on the harddrive, and it goes dark shortly after boot, though everything remains powered. With the old card, it holds bright blue as it runs through the windows startup.

    epburn on
  • TetraNitroCubaneTetraNitroCubane The Djinnerator At the bottom of a bottleRegistered User regular
    edited June 2010
    Aaack. Sorry to have steered you with the PSU suggestion, epburn. It does sound like that first card must've gotten to you DOA. Hopefully an RMA of the card and return of the PSU won't be too terribly difficult. If you're still curious about the card, you might be able to test it in another computer if you have a good friend who's willing to let you swap in into their box. Typically, though, if a card isn't even showing you the BIOS POST, then either it's not getting enough power, or is DOA.

    At any rate, sorry again, and best of luck getting it sorted.

    TetraNitroCubane on
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  • epburnepburn Registered User regular
    edited June 2010
    It was a good theory. The new PS is much quieter and has no stupid LEDs on it.

    Started a trouble ticket with Sapphire, but may lose patience and just RMA through NewEgg.

    epburn on
  • epburnepburn Registered User regular
    edited June 2010
    Sapphire responded, and asked if I could verify whether my Gigabyte GA-k8N Pro-SLI supported and was running PCIE 2.0v. I've got a five year old board, so the answer's no, and I'm going to be contemplating a more serious upgrade than I originally wanted. But hey, five years. Not bad.

    epburn on
  • MugsleyMugsley Registered User regular
    edited June 2010
    Give us a budget and we can recommend some boards.

    Mugsley on
  • epburnepburn Registered User regular
    edited June 2010
    Since the last one lasted me so long, I'm coming to grips with the idea that I'm going to probably have to replace my DDR memory, too. I prefer AMD, I'm not much of a PC gamer anymore, but I do photo and occasional video editing for work. Probably try to stay in the $400 for the mobo/processor combo, looking at the x4's and x6's, but if it's possible to put together a decent system and start with a couple gigs of DDR3 in that price range, that'd be great too. That may be fantasy.

    Like I said, the last rig I built lasted me five years. I may try to phase more of this, this time.

    epburn on
  • MugsleyMugsley Registered User regular
    edited June 2010
    I'll poke around and update this thread. I have to warn you, I love Asus to bits, so I'll likely start with them. Also, the new Phenoms are quite good.


    I'm a bit rusty on this but I think PCI-E 2.0 is on the chip level; otherwise I'd say do a BIOS update and try your card again. What's weird is that all 2.0 cards are supposed to be backward compatible. Not sure what Sapphire is trying to say.

    Mugsley on
  • epburnepburn Registered User regular
    edited June 2010
    The 5K series I have starts to use PCIE 2.1v, whereas 4K could work with older mobos. Some of the motherboards can be flashed to work with 2v, but mine isn't one of them. Gigabyte was pretty quick in saying the board would not work.

    epburn on
  • MugsleyMugsley Registered User regular
    edited June 2010
    Well at least they were forthcoming with the info.

    LINK 1

    Pretty much any of the boards with 500+ reviews is probably your best bet. The top 3 in the list are Asus's newer boards with SATA 6G and USB 3.0 (no 3.0 consumer devices have come to market yet, that I know of).


    LINK 2

    Gigabyte's boards are a bit less expensive.

    I don't know if any of these have processor combo deals. You may want to track down a proc and see what combos it's set up with.

    I don't have any info or experience with the various AMD North Bridges, so I can't tell you which chipset is the best. I recommend you check out http://www.anandtech.com for info.

    Mugsley on
  • epburnepburn Registered User regular
    edited June 2010
    Looking at this and hoping it'll last another five years.

    epburn on
  • MugsleyMugsley Registered User regular
    edited June 2010
    http://www.motherboards.org/reviews/motherboards/2070_1.html

    That's the only solid review I could find, so it looks like you're in good hands.

    Mugsley on
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