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Learning Spanish - allí vs. allá
Drake Chambers
Lay out my formal shorts.Registered User regular
Lay out my formal shorts.Registered User regular
I took five years of Spanish in junior high / high school and then dropped it. Now, many years later, I'm picking it back up again using Rosetta Stone. I'm confused though as what the software seems to indicate for usage of allí vs. allá is contrary to what I remember and what I currently seem to be finding in a cursory search on the interwebs.
Rosetta gives several examples of "allá" where the object is within sight and being pointed to. So far the only example of "allí" is a phone conversation where a woman is telling a friend that she'll be there (allí) at her party (presumably some distance away).
This is the reverse of what I remember learning in high school, but that was a long time ago. I thought "allí" meant "over there, that thing I'm pointing to" and "allá" meant "over there, in another place".
Set me straight?
Rosetta gives several examples of "allá" where the object is within sight and being pointed to. So far the only example of "allí" is a phone conversation where a woman is telling a friend that she'll be there (allí) at her party (presumably some distance away).
This is the reverse of what I remember learning in high school, but that was a long time ago. I thought "allí" meant "over there, that thing I'm pointing to" and "allá" meant "over there, in another place".
Set me straight?
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When speaking English can you tell the difference between, "The book is there." or "The book is over there."? You probably won't pick it up, or care, at least most people won't and don't. In Spanish it has a bit of a different connotation, but in that example, it's hardly going to make any difference in how they respond or react.
But you are the type of person who would make a big deal about that, so there's hardly any point in continuing this conversation. Meanwhile I'll go to Spain and be able to converse fairly fluently while someone else struggles with a response because they don't know or can't remember if they should be using there or over there and holy shit my face asplode because oh my god they may flip me a bird. All the while holding their head screaming about the voices in their head and wondering what's happening to them.
Did I get that all? Are we good? Yeah?
Heck, even I don't exactly understand the difference between allí and allá. Right now I'd say that allí is something that's close to who you're speaking.
But no, it won't matter, and no, no one will care except if you run into adytum in Spain and you ask him where the museum is and he says "there."
Your answers seem to support what I've learned -- both in terms of which word means what and the fact that it's generally not that big a deal. So thanks!
Now I'm just a bit confused as to why Rosetta Stone would have it backwards.
Ignoring these words won't make you sound like a gibbering idiot. Look:
José: ¿Dónde está el queso?
Manuel: Está allá *points across the room*
José: ¿Dónde está el queso?
Manuel: Está allí *points across the room*
The message is the same, as any native Spanish speaker will tell you. There is, infact, a degree of difference... but remember that languages are living things spoken by imperfect humans: they change, they live, they die. Rules change, trends come and go.
You know, her being from Puerto Rico and all. It's not like this is some from gym teacher that knows Spanish or something.
That's kind of all languages.
Mildly related: Trying to get a translation for "My dog took a shit on the lawn" from English into Spanish is amusing.
I don't find it amusing: "Mi perro se cagó en la grama". It doesn't even sound funny.
I don't know if that second translation is correct, but it seems to think so.
The humor is in translating the idiomatic expression "took a shit".
Could be a connection. I could be out of my mind. Obviously there are a lot of similarities between the romance languages.
Well, "allí" and "allá" are both words for "there". "Aquí" and "acá" are words for "here". Though, there is a similarity there with "ici" and "aquí".
But I'm sure that's largely dialect based, since "allì" is really just one of those words I use when imitating other Spanish accents.
That reminds me of a question that occurred to me the other day. I had switched to a Spanish language version of Harry Potter and wondered: are the voiceover actors speaking Spanish with British accents?
I wouldn't exactly say its the same. "Here" and "there" have Spanish equivalents. "Here" would be "Aquí", "There" would be "Allí" or "Allá", which are the words in discussion.
Allí and Allá only translate into "There" in English. English is somewhat ambigeous when it comes to adverbs, it doesn't get into specific details, as Spanish often tends to do.
Allí indicates a middle point; allá is the furthest place in relation to my position.
e.g.
You are sitting in the courtyard with a friend and you say the following:
Aquí en el patio está fresco, allá en la sala hace calor = Here in the courtyard is cool,
there in the room is hot.
Now, imagine yourself a teacher, close to the board, you notice two students arguing, you then call them and say the following to separate them:
Alex, siéntate allí, Mario siéntate allá = Alex, sit there, Mario, sit over there.
I hope this helps.
My experience (practical, not book) in French is that no one ever uses ici/voici/ceci. You pretty much always use là/voila/cela(ça). The only time you hear the "ci" forms is if you're discussing two different things and the speaker wants to specifically draw your attention to the thing that's nearer.