Bitching Thread IV: I Must Break You (of bad comics)

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  • NODeNODe Registered User regular
    edited September 2010
    You can't make an EVENT out of months of well written character development leading to a natural end to a relationship. You need super scientists and demons and rifts in space time and terrible animal headed apparitions striding across reality like colossi. You need these things to distract from the fact that you can't write for shit and could only work in this ridiculous industry.

    NODe on
  • CorporateLogoCorporateLogo The toilet knows how I feelRegistered User regular
    edited September 2010
    Well Quesada made his bones as an artist so I think he'd be doing fine anyway

    CorporateLogo on
    Do not have a cow, mortal.

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  • GaddezGaddez Registered User regular
    edited September 2010
    Well Quesada made his bones as an artist so I think he'd be doing fine anyway

    artist: mskes pretty pictures
    writer: creates stories

    When you switch these rolls you are going to have problems.

    Gaddez on
  • NODeNODe Registered User regular
    edited September 2010
    Gaddez wrote: »
    Well Quesada made his bones as an artist so I think he'd be doing fine anyway

    artist: mskes pretty pictures
    writer: creates stories

    When you switch these rolls you are going to have problems.

    Except not always. It just shouldn't be assumed that if you're sufficiently famous at one you can do another.
    Why does this only seem to happen in creative industries? Every actor thinks they can be a musician, every musician thinks they can act and all of those ass hats think that they're artists.

    Do succesful bankers just assume that they can be heart surgeons or mechanical engineers?

    NODe on
  • cardboard delusionscardboard delusions USAgent PSN: USAgent31Registered User regular
    edited September 2010
    I do, now stop interrupting my open heart surgeries while I'm managing your 401k.

    cardboard delusions on
  • NODeNODe Registered User regular
    edited September 2010
    I do, now stop interrupting my open heart surgeries while I'm managing your 401k.

    If you finished designing that damn engine building robot I ordered three months ago I'd leave you alone.

    NODe on
  • GaddezGaddez Registered User regular
    edited September 2010
    You know what, you're right NODe. I was a little too far in my comment.

    That having been said, Qesada should have taken the overwhelming groan that followed OMD as a dire warning about his creative writing skills.

    Gaddez on
  • muninnmuninn Registered User regular
    edited September 2010
    Gaddez wrote: »

    That having been said, Qesada should have taken the overwhelming groan that followed OMD as a dire warning about his creative writing skills.

    You have to put things in perspective. Comic industry, from what I hear, is a fraternity of friends with fragile egos where merit takes back seat to inter-office politics. People get jobs because they are "good guys", not because they are good at what they do, and peer criticism is a taboo subject.
    That leaves only fan criticism, but unfortunately comic book fandom on the whole is retarded and averse to any change - no matter the direction or execution of its thrust.

    So when you are the big cheese at a company that feels "peer review" is a dirty word, and outside criticism is outright ignored, it is easy to fall in love with your own retarded ideas.

    muninn on
  • DouglasDangerDouglasDanger PennsylvaniaRegistered User regular
    edited September 2010
    Yeah, and the completionist crowd and the "buying it review it" and ironic buyers bought a lot of books, because Spider-man. Comics are a business.

    DouglasDanger on
  • TexiKenTexiKen Dammit! That fish really got me!Registered User regular
    edited September 2010
    muninn wrote: »
    Gaddez wrote: »

    That having been said, Qesada should have taken the overwhelming groan that followed OMD as a dire warning about his creative writing skills.

    You have to put things in perspective. Comic industry, from what I hear, is a fraternity of friends with fragile egos where merit takes back seat to inter-office politics. People get jobs because they are "good guys", not because they are good at what they do, and peer criticism is a taboo subject.
    That leaves only fan criticism, but unfortunately comic book fandom on the whole is retarded and averse to any change - no matter the direction or execution of its thrust.

    So when you are the big cheese at a company that feels "peer review" is a dirty word, and outside criticism is outright ignored, it is easy to fall in love with your own retarded ideas.

    I like what you wrote muninn, that's probably the most succinct way of putting it about the industry and some of their ideas.

    TexiKen on
  • SolarSolar Registered User regular
    edited September 2010
    TexiKen wrote: »
    muninn wrote: »
    Gaddez wrote: »

    That having been said, Qesada should have taken the overwhelming groan that followed OMD as a dire warning about his creative writing skills.

    You have to put things in perspective. Comic industry, from what I hear, is a fraternity of friends with fragile egos where merit takes back seat to inter-office politics. People get jobs because they are "good guys", not because they are good at what they do, and peer criticism is a taboo subject.
    That leaves only fan criticism, but unfortunately comic book fandom on the whole is retarded and averse to any change - no matter the direction or execution of its thrust.

    So when you are the big cheese at a company that feels "peer review" is a dirty word, and outside criticism is outright ignored, it is easy to fall in love with your own retarded ideas.

    I like what you wrote muninn, that's probably the most succinct way of putting it about the industry and some of their ideas.

    The thing is as long as books sell there is very little that you can say to someone to stop what they are doing. "Your stuff is terrible" doesn't stand up in the face of "but my stuff sells really well." I do think it's time for someone, a chief editor who actually does his job perhaps, to be able to say to writers "no, that's not good enough, go away and change it."

    Solar on
  • muninnmuninn Registered User regular
    edited September 2010
    Joe Q became EiC of Marvel because he could make money for the company. And he is really good bringing in the bucks. And while it is true that well selling stuff will never be canned due to artistic vision, or rather the lack of it, you have to take a look at all those promising new titles by new faces that get canceled within 10 issues, while the old war horses can reduce the readership by a factor of 10 and be allowed to continue their reign of terror for years.

    I always wondered why a popular author with a huge creative output like Grant Morrisson doesnt publish more stuff through the big 2, until he came out and stated that since he lives away from the publishing offices, and isnt part of the insiders club, he gets shut out. I always found that shocking. I am sure there is more to it, since we are talking about Morrisson here, but still...

    muninn on
  • TheSecretSeventhTheSecretSeventh GARegistered User regular
    edited September 2010
    Munch wrote: »
    Interestingly, I recently read something that discussed how Japanese viewers of anime and manga do identify the characters as Asian, even when they have typically non-Asian features. It makes me wonder if American kids that read manga identify the protagonists as being of their own race and culture.

    What are you defining as "typically non-Asian features" though? Cause I think you'll find that those features aren't exactly what the Japanese would consider their defining features.

    I generally agree with your point though, that people follow characters they're similar to because it's easier to identify with them. I'd probably say that's the reason why so many people are so dumb when it comes to Superman and out-right refuse to like him even though they've no fucking clue what they're talking about.

    TheSecretSeventh: Wait, you don't think Booster Gold is as good as it used to be and like GL more than it? Ugh. Ugh. But Jurgens' run on Booster was laughable and Johns' writing hasn't been remotely good for like at least a year.

    i meant what furu said, thats johns' booster run was great. it is better currently than with jurgens though, youre right on that. and im still really enjoying GL, so i guess we just have to disagree on that.

    TheSecretSeventh on
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  • cshadow42cshadow42 Registered User regular
    edited September 2010
    muninn wrote: »
    Joe Q became EiC of Marvel because he could make money for the company. And he is really good bringing in the bucks. And while it is true that well selling stuff will never be canned due to artistic vision, or rather the lack of it, you have to take a look at all those promising new titles by new faces that get canceled within 10 issues, while the old war horses can reduce the readership by a factor of 10 and be allowed to continue their reign of terror for years.

    I always wondered why a popular author with a huge creative output like Grant Morrisson doesnt publish more stuff through the big 2, until he came out and stated that since he lives away from the publishing offices, and isnt part of the insiders club, he gets shut out. I always found that shocking. I am sure there is more to it, since we are talking about Morrisson here, but still...

    I gotta give Quesada credit for bringing Marvel back from the brink and injecting some much needed quality into the comic book business. Without him, I think the overall quality of comics would be much lower.

    That said, he needs to learn he's playing with fire with BND...

    cshadow42 on
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  • FuruFuru Registered User regular
    edited September 2010
    Who cares? It will likely never come up again during Slott's run.

    Furu on
  • cshadow42cshadow42 Registered User regular
    edited September 2010
    Oh, I think it'll be picked at every so often. Its a wound that can never heal because the scab keeps getting picked at by fanfolk.

    cshadow42 on
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  • KyouguKyougu Registered User regular
    edited September 2010
    Ultimate Avengers 03.

    Wow was it bad.

    Kyougu on
  • wirehead26wirehead26 Registered User regular
    edited September 2010
    Kyougu wrote: »
    Ultimate Avengers 03.

    Wow was it bad.

    You think so? While it certainly won't win any awards I thought there's been nothing terrible about it so far. Typical Millar stuff but I'm intrigued as to who the head vampire in the Iron Man armor is.

    wirehead26 on
    I'M NOT FINISHED WITH YOU!!!
  • SolarSolar Registered User regular
    edited September 2010
    wirehead26 wrote: »
    Kyougu wrote: »
    Ultimate Avengers 03.

    Wow was it bad.

    You think so? While it certainly won't win any awards I thought there's been nothing terrible about it so far. Typical Millar stuff but I'm intrigued as to who the head vampire in the Iron Man armor is.

    Typical Millar stuff means bad for quite a few people these days. He's a far cry from the writer who did Red Son.

    Solar on
  • Robos A Go GoRobos A Go Go Registered User regular
    edited September 2010
    The bit where Nerd Hulk tries to get his copies of Trouble autographed was pretty funny, though.

    Robos A Go Go on
  • GankGank Registered User regular
    edited September 2010
    Millar is just Hollywood-ising all the stuff he writes now. It's a pleasant change sometimes, just some crude stuff. Like a dumb action movie.

    Gank on
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  • TheSecretSeventhTheSecretSeventh GARegistered User regular
    edited September 2010
    Gank wrote: »
    Millar is just Hollywood-ising all the stuff he writes now. It's a pleasant change sometimes, just some crude stuff. Like a dumb action movie.

    but sometimes thats good, isnt it? comics can be escapism just like summer action flicks can.

    TheSecretSeventh on
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  • Centipede DamascusCentipede Damascus Registered User regular
    edited September 2010
    well that and he's shopping his comics as movies before they're even released

    "HEY THEY SHOULD DO A NEMESIS MOVIE WITH BRAD PITT AND JOHNNY DEPP LET'S GET TONY SCOTT ON THIS"

    Centipede Damascus on
  • GankGank Registered User regular
    edited September 2010
    Gank wrote: »
    Millar is just Hollywood-ising all the stuff he writes now. It's a pleasant change sometimes, just some crude stuff. Like a dumb action movie.

    but sometimes thats good, isnt it? comics can be escapism just like summer action flicks can.

    That's what i'm saying. Millar is a sometimes food.

    Gank on
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  • muninnmuninn Registered User regular
    edited September 2010
    I have to agree that Millarisms can be a fun and entertaining romps, but they often come at the cost of my bang for the buck.
    When all I get for my 4 friggin dollars is few puns and an explosion, I feel cheated.
    Some stuff works for movies well enough, but comics are a whole other medium.

    muninn on
  • SolarSolar Registered User regular
    edited September 2010
    Gank wrote: »
    Millar is just Hollywood-ising all the stuff he writes now. It's a pleasant change sometimes, just some crude stuff. Like a dumb action movie.

    but sometimes thats good, isnt it? comics can be escapism just like summer action flicks can.

    Ah yes but you see there is a difference between a summer action flick like, say, the Expendables and a summer action flick like say, Pearl Harbour. Millar's stuff is mindless and violent which is entirely fine except its also terrible.

    Solar on
  • AngryAngry The glory I had witnessed was just a sleight of handRegistered User regular
    edited September 2010
    Get over yourself solar.

    Angry on
  • SolarSolar Registered User regular
    edited September 2010
    Angry wrote: »
    Get over yourself solar.

    My self-importance is everything to me.

    Solar on
  • TexiKenTexiKen Dammit! That fish really got me!Registered User regular
    edited September 2010
    So not only is Superman terrible right now, it can't even be shipped on time, which means more months of this bullshit.

    I even doubt DC would actually change some of the writing, as I'm sure we'll see more of JMS' take on Superman combating illegal aliens and men who walk dogs, while Batman watches him in a car Superman would know anywhere in the world.

    TexiKen on
  • wirehead26wirehead26 Registered User regular
    edited September 2010
    Wonder if this means WW will be delayed as well. Still kinda sad JMS can't keep up a monthly schedule anymore, he proved he could do it with AMS.

    Edit: I meant "ASM".

    wirehead26 on
    I'M NOT FINISHED WITH YOU!!!
  • TexiKenTexiKen Dammit! That fish really got me!Registered User regular
    edited September 2010
    Tie-in to the last post (and Wirehead it looks like WW might also be delayed):

    Comic Retailer tries to coordinate Superman showing up in Cincinatti, DC screws it up

    In that article it mentions JMS didn't turn in a script for #703 as of August 18th, which is ridiculous. In the comments someone posts stuff from JMS' facebook mentioning he had Bronchitis like symptoms the past months.

    If JMS was sick, fine. DC should, however, inform retailers about this, as this is a Civil War #4 type of "fuck you" to the retailer and customer (for those still reading the book).

    Now, I would think this means WW is delayed, but if it is still on schedule, then I start to wonder about the severity of JMS being sick since he would never stop talking about his love for Superman, which would make him a higher priority writing-wise (I would think).

    TexiKen on
  • KVWKVW Registered User regular
    edited September 2010
    Isnt this supposed to end in San Diego for Comic-Con? Guess thats out the window?

    KVW on
  • TheSecretSeventhTheSecretSeventh GARegistered User regular
    edited September 2010
    but if superman is so awful, what the big deal about it being delayed? thats just another week to wait to not buy it.

    TheSecretSeventh on
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  • TexiKenTexiKen Dammit! That fish really got me!Registered User regular
    edited September 2010
    Because that's not one less month JMS writes Superman, it's one more extra month that we have to sit through this terrible, no good, very bad story to end so that Joe Kelly or Kurt Busiek can make it all better and we can buy it again.

    TexiKen on
  • TheSecretSeventhTheSecretSeventh GARegistered User regular
    edited September 2010
    TexiKen wrote: »
    Because that's not one less month JMS writes Superman, it's one more extra month that we have to sit through this terrible, no good, very bad story to end so that Joe Kelly or Kurt Busiek can make it all better and we can buy it again.

    yeah, i guess, but i highly doubt i'd get back into superman anyway. hes always been a boring character to me.

    TheSecretSeventh on
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  • DouglasDangerDouglasDanger PennsylvaniaRegistered User regular
    edited September 2010
    I want to bitch about Douglas, and how he is crippled by anxiety and fear of failure and how he never finishes a thing.

    DouglasDanger on
  • The Lovely BastardThe Lovely Bastard Registered User regular
    edited September 2010
    I too will bitch about douglas

    WHERE IS MY SCRIPT

    The Lovely Bastard on
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  • DouglasDangerDouglasDanger PennsylvaniaRegistered User regular
    edited September 2010
    It is bouncing around in my head. Along with my space henshin picaresque story, and all of the ARRGGHHHH about moving and looking for work and

    (excuses)

    DouglasDanger on
  • The Lovely BastardThe Lovely Bastard Registered User regular
    edited September 2010
    damnit douglas

    The Lovely Bastard on
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  • LucascraftLucascraft Registered User regular
    edited September 2010
    TexiKen wrote: »
    Because that's not one less month JMS writes Superman, it's one more extra month that we have to sit through this terrible, no good, very bad story to end so that Joe Kelly or Kurt Busiek can make it all better and we can buy it again.

    yeah, i guess, but i highly doubt i'd get back into superman anyway. hes always been a boring character to me.

    Man. Superman is not a boring character. The problem is that most writers are terrible at telling good Superman stories. The character itself has potential to be one of the most interesting of all. But very few writers actually understand the complexities and nuances that make him great.

    Camelot Falls by Kurt Busiek is a great Superman read if you're looking for a good Superman tale. Also, All-Star Superman is probably the best Superman that has ever been written. Grant Morrison understands.

    Lucascraft on
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