(and whether or not I've gotten buckshot ammo to exist again)
...the hell did you do?
Either way, picked up CoP for 20 bucks at Target today, and been playing that. Though, after playing until the second major area (the name escapes me at the moment), I've picked up a hostage rescue mission.
Cleared out the 18 some bandits, and now I just need to get the guy home. He picks up a gun, wanders about 30 yards out... then stops, hides, and points his gun in a very specific direction, in low crouch.
"Oho! A bandit must have survived my cleansing!" Nope. Not a damn thing for a very very long way, and the guys in that direction after about 200 yards are a bunch of friendlies. So what the hell. I walk all the way back to the guys who gave me the quest, try to talk to them... aaaand crash.
Goddamnit.
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IceBurnerIt's cold and there are penguins.Registered Userregular
edited July 2010
I added my most-liked bits and pieces of AMK and the Arsenal mods to my already heavily-customized game, along with my own custom icons and texture work for new ammo types. For a while, and for no discernible reason, 12-gauge buckshot just wasn't spawning on anyone. I think I might have fixed it, though.
I assume this made most bandit fights relatively easy, because, hey! No ammo for the guns!
Unless you ALSO broke weapons spawning and they had some... really nasty guns that I don't know about because I haven't gone much in depth with any of the Stalker games.
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IceBurnerIt's cold and there are penguins.Registered Userregular
edited July 2010
With the insane amount of added guns, I figured I ought to actually distribute them across the zone, rather than make them exclusive to myself via the traders. With this in mind, I created my own customized profiles of what gear each faction would use per rank, per area. There were more than enough kinds of guns to go around.
Bandit rookies at the Cordon had access to a Makarov PM pistol, plus either a BM16 Full-length, or a Sawn-off Benelli M3 shotgun. They could also rarely have a PMM (real-world upgrade to the PM), APS machine pistol, a MAC-10 SMG, and RGD-5 grenades.
Regular-ranked bandits first appear in the Garbage. They would regularly have access to the PMM with a Benelli or MAC-10. Rarely they could have the AKS-74U carbine, HK MP5A3 SMG, or RGD-5 grenades.
(Note: I made no changes to which factions and ranks appear where, I just tweaked every profile.)
That sounds pretty awesome, think you might share that at any point?
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IceBurnerIt's cold and there are penguins.Registered Userregular
edited July 2010
I can't really; for one, it's made up of pieces of AMK and The Arsenal Mod, stitched together like my own Frankenstein monster. The other reason is that I have yet to verify that it's actually working as intended . Note that AMK does much the same thing, but with a different set of weapons and their own plan for who has what.
Truly, I've gone to great lengths to satisfy my own whims, such as including weapon variants exclusively to have alternate skins or models, and have these used primarily by certain groups. For example the Mercs are assigned to use a different model of the Z-M Weapons LR300 ML than everyone else. Overall, they act as a source for all the the otherwise very out-of-place American-made guns.
Another example is that Duty rarely has an AKS-74U with a camo pattern, and the Spetznaz rarely has another.
I donated my custom ammo artwork to one of the two above mods (I forget which). If they haven't replaced it since, then I made the art for the 4-6x30, 5-7x28, new 9x19 types, new 9x19 types, new 12x76 types, .40, .44, .50 action express, .357, and new 762x54 type.
Am I alone in thinking that SoC actually gets better with repeat visits?
This second play through is more fun then I've had playing any FPS(/RPG?) since Deus Ex.
Now that I'm more familiar with things, the atmosphere is screaming bloody murder at me. Everything scares me and everything worries me.
I found myself disgusted at my own actions when I started taking quests to kill others. First, that coward Snitch hires me to off some Dutyers, I figured it was routine, they offended someone, so they die. Then I realized when hiring me he was just talking about how folks in exo make his work hard. Whatever, people die, mutants roam, life goes on.
Then I took a quest to kill a soldier. Just some soldier, not a big deal. They're cowards, extortionists and fascists. I find this guy at Agroprom. Except he isn't with any unit. He's in a swamp, in a hitched up trailer, cowering, murmuring to himself. When I get to him, he starts screaming, balled up in a corner, begging me not to shoot him. I talk to him and find out he ran away from his unit, because they were just being used as fodder to clog up the underground and feed its mutants. He told me of his plans to leave The Zone, find a chopper and just leave, he had no interest in the evil that his comrades were dealing.
I had to actually take a while before I made my choice. I raised Big Ben, and I quieted his screams with a single 9x39 round. I kind of just stared at him for a minute afterwards. In the end, I shrugged, and I decided that The Zone is harsh, and that I did what I was paid to do.
Of course, I then just decided to complete as many quests as possible because I wanted my exo, so I was killing stalkers left and right. For the most part, I was killing treacherous characters, but those two, along with the rookie stalker I killed, had me wondering about the honesty of my character's work.
I also took a stroll through that bloodsucker village in the Warehouses, at the behest of Murk. Never did that before, I was always in and out for the guy at The Bar. When I had to actually clear that place out, house by house, floor by floor... I could feel my heart going through my chest. It was bad enough dealing with bloodsuckers, but I started finding horrible macabre scenes. I fell into a pit with nothing but bones and a Bulldog 6. I found a bonefire with heads on pikes and corpses. Worse yet, there was the ever present sound of The Zone herself. Anomalies going off, men screaming in horror, weapons fire starting and then being silenced by the howls of beasts...
Then the doors start breaking? Fuck. Bloodsuckers coming through boarded up doors, disappearing and reappearing as I swept through houses, light on, Combat Chaser out.
This game deserves to be game of the decade. If CS and CoP are better than this, I will stop playing games all together. Nothing will ever trump these experiences.
Holy shit. This... this is amazing. I need this game. It looks improved in every possible way. Holy shit.
Edit: Also, I bought that shotgun from Yantar. I wanna use it on someone's face and watch them fly forever.
I dunno how I missed that Quicklook. but it got me to bite the bullet and get the loyalty version off steam. I hope I can get deeper in this one. I spent many hours with various iterations and mods of SoC but never really progressed very far in the story cause even survival-horror-lite scares the shit outta me, get way too anxious in those dark creepy underground environments. But even if I dont finish CoP $20 is a paltry sum for the fun I can have above ground... in the daytime
Just finished Shadows. I don't understand the rabid fan base for this game, it was okay but it's a pretty standard FPS that has a cool setting that it doesn't utilise well enough. That and a lot of it feels clumsy/un-polished.
Rami on
Steam / Xbox Live: WSDX NNID: W-S-D-X 3DS FC: 2637-9461-8549
The main thing about Stalker is there is no 'main thing'; different aspects will appeal to different people, but there's enough wrong with it to keep the appeal from being universal. The atmosphere is praiseworthy, but for some the AI wonkiness and respawning enemies can keep them from getting into it. Shooting mechanics are clunky and unforgiving, but for some that's perfect antidote for the way FPSs usually do things. Some go for the mods, others can't be bothered. And then there are ever-popular save game corruptions and game-ending glitches, like if a key figure dies before you're supposed to talk to him; always crowd pleasers, if you fall prey to those.
For me, it's the way it all comes together. The game dumps you head-first into the world and asks you to keep up. You have to figure out how the world works without someone chatting in your ear every thirty steps telling you to look at Scripted Action A or Scenic Vista B. Your debut mission in Shadow is to take out eight mooks with a starting pea shooter, and it's on you to prove you're more than the raw meat everyone thinks you are. Something is very, very wrong in the Zone, but you have more immediate concerns; namely, just getting from A to B without getting shot, eaten, or vaporized.
The game flows well for me, going from town to field to dungeon with an occasional scripted attack here and there; it's built like an action game, but it has the spirit of a good adventure in it. I feel it handles the transition well, and even if I'm funneled into a linear action section it doesn't feel contrived. The game's playing by the rules, and that's how the dice rolled. The semi-random nature of the Zone ensures that even setpiece battles don't always go the same way. Sometimes that Duty group gets their clock cleaned out in Wild Territory, others they sweep through the map and do the hard work for me.
Clear Sky and especially Call of Pripyat are both worthy titles, essentially bookending the experience. Pripyat, in particular, takes all the changes from Clear Sky and makes them work, and it builds the quest layout solidly without interrupting the feel of the Zone; it's really quite impressive how often quests intersect and options open up depending on who worked with who. But for my money, there's just something special about the way Shadow is structured.
I hesitate to use the word 'magic', but there is something to the Stalker games that not everyone will see. If you do see it though, if it does click for you, then it stays with you in ways that even well-presented games won't.
At least, that's my take on it. Your mileage may vary and all that.
IceBurnerIt's cold and there are penguins.Registered Userregular
edited July 2010
GSC has built a marvelous engine, which went somewhat under-utilized and not quite polished out-of-thebox until CoP, or with modded versions of the first two games. I personally think the freaking slick global lighting system in the X-Ray engine, combined with the setting makes it the most incredible shooter, visually - it just needs the right artists behind it. After my first thunderstorm at night, where every lightning flash threw shadows of EVERY tree and all other objects every which way, I was sold.
The ballistics model is also extraordinarily detailed, accounting for literally all real-world factors except wind. Main problem is that by default in SoC and CS, the settings limit the gunplay. Again, the right tweaks and it's incredible.
Same goes for the AI in the first two games. Once polished off so that visibility and sound are less game-like and more realistic (and so that people can't die from spawning in campfires, which is unfortunately incurable), the proper setting for the game is complete.
Stolls, you brought a tear to my eye with that. :P
SoC, for me, really is just magic. The atmosphere is perfect for me, the characters are charming*, the use of both English and foreign languages really upped the atmosphere, the shooting mechanics (call 'em wonky, but I love 'em) make you feel like you're a person**.
The lighting as IceBurner mentioned is fantastic. Indoor environments are unparalleled in my experience. The sound goes so far to it, as well. This is boosted by the fact that a lot of sounds you hear are actual events, not just canned. The sounds of dogs whining from bullet wounds, men screaming as they're torn apart by anomalies, and mutants skulking in the next building.
That random aspect that Stolls mentioned is also great. Unlike Fallout 3 where open world just translates to "albino rads kill everything", The Zone is alive. You'll find Loners and Dutyers randomly gathering and hunting together. The sheer volume of stuff you won't even realize is there unless you play a second time, the countless customized weapons and unique individuals, tracked and cataloged on your PDA. Its just great.
Its magic. I can't understand not liking it. I can't understand not loving it.
*The odd English actually goes a hell of a long way for me. It makes them feel like people, not scripts. A lot of dialogue in media tends to flow unnaturally and feels pre-thought (most real people will say things incorrectly as they stumble for words and such). Normal people don't just spit quips and perfect lines at each other, not without familiarity.
**It can be amazingly frustrating when you lie in wait, scoped, fully prone, and still miss. That perfect ambush? Gone out of the window. But it works. Forget the reload, get to cover, lean around that tree and fill 'em full of lead, Marked One!
It was actually the atmosphere/setting that disappointed me the most, along with the content. Okay, it looks like a post-apocolyptic setting, but that isn't hard to do. Destroyed buildings, burnt out cars etc.
The mutants were a disappointment, for a start they were entirely unthreatening. I liked the humanish one with the mind bending power but that showed up about 3 times in the whole game. Turning around and seeing glowing yellow eyes floating in the air towards me was cool, but the bloodsucker still drops to a few bursts. The snork was piss weak and the pseudogiant(?), again, only appeared a few times and wasn't even the raging behemoth of destruction I was expecting.
The factions were under-used, not really adding anything to the setting. Aside from right near the end when I could shoot freedom for duty or shoot duty for freedom it seemed redundant. I shot neither, because I never really felt any reason why I should care either way.
The anomolies as well, basically a small patch on the ground and if you walk in it you die. Otherwise, pointless. I was expecting weird shit, time distortions, gravity wells, bizarro weather..not a few flashing lights on the ground that hurt you if you walk on them (like you ever would since the beeping is so obvious).
Then the content..main story is pretty short, side quests being random generations of boring fetch quests doesn't really help.
The shooting was good. I found every single pistol to be utterly worthless though. Not just in pathetic accuracy but you could never aim down the sights because every shot you fire causes the pistol to jerk up in your hand so much that you can no longer see what you're trying to aim at. You couldn't really stealth either because it appeared to be completely broken.
It wasn't a bad game, but it's individual parts just didn't really hit the mark for me. It seemed like a game that had a lot of potential, but not one i'm interested in playing more than once.
Rami on
Steam / Xbox Live: WSDX NNID: W-S-D-X 3DS FC: 2637-9461-8549
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Olivawgood name, isn't it?the foot of mt fujiRegistered Userregular
edited July 2010
I'm playing Call of Pripyat for the first time
It's the first Stalker game I've gotten to put any real significant time into since it hasn't crashed once!
Anyway I haven't even gone to look at those crashed helicopters yet, is there like a point where I should or should I buy all the info from that Owl guy first or what, because so far I'm more concerned with solving side quests and finding stashes and getting sweet loot than doing my mission
Also I love how this game changes me as a person when I play it. Normally I'm this nice, goody two-shoes kind of guy in all games, but in this one I will watch as two factions shoot at each other and then watch as a pack of dogs tears the survivors apart and then I'll go up and loot them all
It was actually the atmosphere/setting that disappointed me the most, along with the content. Okay, it looks like a post-apocolyptic setting, but that isn't hard to do. Destroyed buildings, burnt out cars etc.
I'd disagree with this, because I felt the world was very much not a post-apocalyptic one. It was alive, and outright filled with life. Boars, pseudodogs, blind dogs, fleshes... It sounds very little, but they had cycles.
You could walk past a pack of sleeping dogs, hoping not to wake them. Like when Bugs Bunny gets Yosemite Sam into the lion pen and drops an alarm clock in. Except your face will be removed if they wake.
The trees are green, so is the grass, the buildings are lit if they're inhabited. There are, basically, towns all over the place. Stalkers making their way across The Zone, settling in for the night in enclosures and singing songs by the fire.
For me, the world felt alive.
The mutants were a disappointment, for a start they were entirely unthreatening. I liked the humanish one with the mind bending power but that showed up about 3 times in the whole game. Turning around and seeing glowing yellow eyes floating in the air towards me was cool, but the bloodsucker still drops to a few bursts. The snork was piss weak and the pseudogiant(?), again, only appeared a few times and wasn't even the raging behemoth of destruction I was expecting.
I agree and disagree. Mutants just weren't numerous enough, mainly. Plenty of bloodsuckers, but only two controllers, two pseudogiants and one place with poltergeists. I think.
Bloodsuckers can be right bastards. So can Snorks. I can typically tap 'em in the head, but Snorks especially, have this cruel habit of jumping at you from the sides out of tall grass.
I'd also like to know what difficulty setting you were on. I was having a piss easy time on the second setting, so I bumped it up to the third. It wasn't drastic, but I had to watch myself a bit more. Things were better.
The factions were under-used, not really adding anything to the setting. Aside from right near the end when I could shoot freedom for duty or shoot duty for freedom it seemed redundant. I shot neither, because I never really felt any reason why I should care either way.
I'll agree to this, but at the same time, I felt immersed in the world. This allowed me to feel out the factions.
By the time I reached The Bar, I felt like I owed an allegiance to them for offering shelter to Loners and their incursions in the Zone against bandits and mutants. I also felt antagonistic towards Freedom, as I view them as weak, unable to stop the Zone and no better than bandits.
I also felt like I was one of the Loners, as I'd spent a lot of time moving through their camps, fighting off bandits, and sitting down to hear the guitar songs. They'd go through the gambit of animations. Eating, sleeping, drinking, talking, joking, singing. The fact I didn't understand them at all, made it easier to imagine them as actual people having a non-scripted conversation.
The anomolies as well, basically a small patch on the ground and if you walk in it you die. Otherwise, pointless. I was expecting weird shit, time distortions, gravity wells, bizarro weather..not a few flashing lights on the ground that hurt you if you walk on them (like you ever would since the beeping is so obvious).
Things like the tunnel to Yantar are a great example of needing your bolts. Then there are the electrical storms that you need to time to get through.
There are gravity wells, though. Sort of. One of the anomalies will actually pull you in, throw you up, slam you down and rip you apart. Hate that thing. One inch too close and you're fucked.
I also like the effect, where as you get closer, the screen gets whiter. This makes it harder to actually see the anomaly.
Then the content..main story is pretty short, side quests being random generations of boring fetch quests doesn't really help.
The quests aren't actually random and do run out. The order in which they show up is random, though.
So one play through you might be asked to get a Flash, then a Fireball. Next might be a Fireball then Flash. Randomized but not.
The shooting was good. I found every single pistol to be utterly worthless though. Not just in pathetic accuracy but you could never aim down the sights because every shot you fire causes the pistol to jerk up in your hand so much that you can no longer see what you're trying to aim at. You couldn't really stealth either because it appeared to be completely broken.
Again, I liked the pistol shooting. Lately I've been using my pistols a lot more, and I can almost guarantee a headshot with them at medium range. Even though the accuracy rating on my Big Ben is nearly 0 (it doesn't even show up on the line). The jerk feels just right, because I wouldn't expect to fire round after round without needing to readjust.
Stealthing was nonexistent. I tried it a couple times. I mean, sometimes, you can get away with it. I found a silenced sniper rifle (Vintar BC, for example) was pretty much the end times for the enemy.
Its funny, the exact things you didn't like, I did. :P
It was actually the atmosphere/setting that disappointed me the most, along with the content. Okay, it looks like a post-apocolyptic setting, but that isn't hard to do. Destroyed buildings, burnt out cars etc.
The mutants were a disappointment, for a start they were entirely unthreatening. I liked the humanish one with the mind bending power but that showed up about 3 times in the whole game. Turning around and seeing glowing yellow eyes floating in the air towards me was cool, but the bloodsucker still drops to a few bursts. The snork was piss weak and the pseudogiant(?), again, only appeared a few times and wasn't even the raging behemoth of destruction I was expecting.
The factions were under-used, not really adding anything to the setting. Aside from right near the end when I could shoot freedom for duty or shoot duty for freedom it seemed redundant. I shot neither, because I never really felt any reason why I should care either way.
The anomolies as well, basically a small patch on the ground and if you walk in it you die. Otherwise, pointless. I was expecting weird shit, time distortions, gravity wells, bizarro weather..not a few flashing lights on the ground that hurt you if you walk on them (like you ever would since the beeping is so obvious).
Then the content..main story is pretty short, side quests being random generations of boring fetch quests doesn't really help.
The shooting was good. I found every single pistol to be utterly worthless though. Not just in pathetic accuracy but you could never aim down the sights because every shot you fire causes the pistol to jerk up in your hand so much that you can no longer see what you're trying to aim at. You couldn't really stealth either because it appeared to be completely broken.
It wasn't a bad game, but it's individual parts just didn't really hit the mark for me. It seemed like a game that had a lot of potential, but not one i'm interested in playing more than once.
Eh, I'd recommend Call of Pripyat, but these games just may not be for you. Also, of course pistols will jerk up in your hand when you shoot them. They tried to model the gunplay rather accurately. Anomalies are also in huge clusters in CoP, and the only way to get artifacts is to have a detector in one hand, a bolt in the other, and pray to God that whirligig that's humming in your ear isn't as close at it feels.
Also, Olivaw, I don't believe buying info from owl is necessary in any way, You'll just have to check out the helicopters yourself. There's no time limit either, so do everything your heart desires.
Also, this game makes me ruthless. Not Bandit ruthless, but let's just say those bandits that frisked me when I was rescuing someone... well, they didn't live long enough to go spend it.
When I first got excited about STALKER, I was afraid to recommend it. I envisioned a lot of world-weary cynical gamers who think they've seen everything before, and are used to trashing every little goofy thing about each new game that comes out. If STALKER somehow went mainstream, we'd see a lot of it.
On the other hand, sometimes people simply don't like a game. There is a need to come up with a laundry list of reasons why, but I think it's okay if a game doesn't click with someone.
I don't know which of these you are Rami if any, but they are both understandable in their own way.
I actually have no idea what the bolt was even for. I thought it was to distract enemies or something.
I like open worlds (was also disappointed it was just 4-5 areas you fast travelled between) and I like shooters. I'll probably check out Call of Pripyat later because, as I said, Shadows felt like a game with potential but was too rough. If they refined it's elements for the sequels then it's probably worth another shot.
Rami on
Steam / Xbox Live: WSDX NNID: W-S-D-X 3DS FC: 2637-9461-8549
I actually have no idea what the bolt was even for. I thought it was to distract enemies or something.
I like open worlds (was also disappointed it was just 4-5 areas you fast travelled between) and I like shooters. I'll probably check out Call of Pripyat later because, as I said, Shadows felt like a game with potential but was too rough. If they refined it's elements for the sequels then it's probably worth another shot.
While the world was smaller than I have first realized, it was still quite big given you had to walk every mile. Words do not describe how giddy I am to finish SoC and move on to CS/CoP.
I hope CoP clicks for you, because I think once it does, if it does, you'll be hooked.
Also, bolts were for detecting anomalies. You throw them at an area, and they set off a anomaly (if they pass directly through it). So for that tunnel in Yantar, instead of moving inch by inch staring at fumes, you could chuck the bolt down a couple meters and move around the anomalies as they went off. It helps when things get real white around crushing anomalies.
I bought a copy of Call of Pripyat a few weeks ago, but didn't really get into its gameplay. The awkward character/dialogue interaction and clunky animations really put me off from continuing any further.
Nonetheless, I plan to invest more time into giving the game another try.
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MongerI got the ham stink.Dallas, TXRegistered Userregular
It was actually the atmosphere/setting that disappointed me the most, along with the content. Okay, it looks like a post-apocolyptic setting, but that isn't hard to do. Destroyed buildings, burnt out cars etc.
I'd disagree with this, because I felt the world was very much not a post-apocalyptic one. It was alive, and outright filled with life. Boars, pseudodogs, blind dogs, fleshes... It sounds very little, but they had cycles.
You could walk past a pack of sleeping dogs, hoping not to wake them. Like when Bugs Bunny gets Yosemite Sam into the lion pen and drops an alarm clock in. Except your face will be removed if they wake.
The trees are green, so is the grass, the buildings are lit if they're inhabited. There are, basically, towns all over the place. Stalkers making their way across The Zone, settling in for the night in enclosures and singing songs by the fire.
For me, the world felt alive.
STALKER is post-post-apocalyptic. Within the Zone, The End happened, then this twisted new reality grew around the ruins of the old. That's what sets STALKER apart from a generic ruined environment. The Zone has a history, and it's documented all throughout the world. Buildings have holes in them because anomalies sprung up and ripped them apart. Most of said anomalies are still there, in fact. Corpses you find strewn about are there because something killed that thing and it's probably still lurking around. There's nothing around that doesn't meant something, and that something is usually bad.
The thing about SoC is that it was an unfinished masterpiece. The game came out 4 years ago (using a technology base nearly a decade old at that point), when GSC was trying to do things in a shooter that nobody had ever attempted before. A good portion of the featureset is at best incomplete and at worst busted-ass busted. Now the majority of those issues have been addressed through mods and sequels, but that's something you have to accept and weigh against the fact that you won't get a similar experience out of any other shooter out there. STALKER doesn't pander to the player. It's a harsh game with harsh mechanics set in a harsh world, and I love it for that.
I bought a copy of Call of Pripyat a few weeks ago, but didn't really get into its gameplay. The awkward character/dialogue interaction and clunky animations really put me off from continuing any further.
It's an acquired taste. The animations you just get used to. The voicing is kind of endearing for its horribleness. It's unrelentingly narmy.
Waka LakaRiding the stuffed UnicornIf ya know what I mean.Registered Userregular
edited July 2010
Funny thing about the X-Ray Engine, originally the whole zone was completely open, and larger, but due to massive AI issues, they had to section the game off. The AI still does some wonky things, but hey, I've never seen AI without issues.
Funny thing about the X-Ray Engine, originally the whole zone was completely open, and larger, but due to massive AI issues, they had to section the game off. The AI still does some wonky things, but hey, I've never seen AI without issues.
you mean it originally wasnt segregated into load zones like it is now?
STALKER is post-post-apocalyptic. Within the Zone, The End happened, then this twisted new reality grew around the ruins of the old. That's what sets STALKER apart from a generic ruined environment. The Zone has a history, and it's documented all throughout the world. Buildings have holes in them because anomalies sprung up and ripped them apart. Most of said anomalies are still there, in fact. Corpses you find strewn about are there because something killed that thing and it's probably still lurking around. There's nothing around that doesn't meant something, and that something is usually bad.
The thing about SoC is that it was an unfinished masterpiece. The game came out 4 years ago (using a technology base nearly a decade old at that point), when GSC was trying to do things in a shooter that nobody had ever attempted before. A good portion of the featureset is at best incomplete and at worst busted-ass busted. Now the majority of those issues have been addressed through mods and sequels, but that's something you have to accept and weigh against the fact that you won't get a similar experience out of any other shooter out there. STALKER doesn't pander to the player. It's a harsh game with harsh mechanics set in a harsh world, and I love it for that.
The Zone really is unique. Its an actual ecosystem you can watch live. I kinda wish I could become a spectator and just zip around like I was waiting to respawn or something, heh.
Post-post apocalypse is a good way to describe it. The Chernobyl disaster happened in their reality, but I think it was... around mid-00's? I'm pretty sure NPCs say something about a second blow out happening around then creating the anomalies/mutants/artifacts/good times.
Two disasters and The Zone thrives. Truly, you cannot tame The Zone, it must be defeated. Damn hippies and their anarchistic nonsense.
Which parts of the feature set were broken/unfinished in SoC? I only ask, because I actually feel the game was rather complete. Was it stuff like repair kits that didn't make it in until later games?
Klash on
We don't even care... whether we care or not...
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MongerI got the ham stink.Dallas, TXRegistered Userregular
Funny thing about the X-Ray Engine, originally the whole zone was completely open, and larger, but due to massive AI issues, they had to section the game off. The AI still does some wonky things, but hey, I've never seen AI without issues.
you mean it originally wasnt segregated into load zones like it is now?
Originally, the game was a full Elder Scrolls styled open world. The problem was that they couldn't get the level streaming functional and they couldn't get the AI working seamlessly between the local and global levels. The idea was that anything not in your immediate vicinity would drop from fully functional AI into a simpler, more abstracted artificial life system that governed every being in the Zone. You can see bits and pieces of that system in the faction wars in Clear Sky. It should be obvious why it wasn't implemented for all NPCs in SoC.
The Chernobyl disaster happened in their reality, but I think it was... around mid-00's? I'm pretty sure NPCs say something about a second blow out happening around then creating the anomalies/mutants/artifacts/good times.
The Chernobyl disaster still happened in the 80s, and it didn't create the Zone or anything unusual. The Soviet government, however, used newly sectioned off area to run experiments on [SoC SPOILERS]. The second incident happened as a result of that in 2006ish, and that created the Zone as we know it.
Like Waka says, it was all supposed to be open, with no checkpoints; not sure whether that included building interiors and stuff like Chernobyl. Vehicles are basically just commented out since they don't fit through checkpoints, though the code is all there to drop them back in. Factions were to play a larger role, naturally.
There are also some quest-specific trimmings, some of which you still see scraps of in the game. Approaching the Brain Scorcher was supposed to be more complex somehow; a note in your PDA and some stuff in dialog files (not in the game itself) suggest some crazy old stalker told you about safe zones on the approach, and you could only move toward the facility when it wasn't being fired up. There was also a quest for Duty to let you into their compound earlier.
Monger's got the right of it: this game is harsh in every sense of the word. I'm all for accessibility, but sometimes I like a game that'll actually challenge me and force me to keep up. Combine with the adventure and the setting (which is real enough to make it something other than Dystopian Wasteland X) and it sticks as one of the most memorable games I've played in a long time.
And who doesn't love GET OUT OF HERE STALKER guy? Bad people, that's who.
Edit: Regarding the timeline, from the manual; the "Second Incident" took place April 13, 2006; maybe two weeks short of twenty years after the original meltdown. Shadow is six years later, sometime in mid-2012.
MorninglordI'm tired of being Batman,so today I'll be Owl.Registered Userregular
edited July 2010
The key thing about the positive aspects of this game is that they require an investment on the players part. They require you to sort of "pretend" or "make believe" that these things represent what you say they are.
Don't take this the wrong way because I also get into it pretty heavily so if you are taking this as a strong criticism you are barking up the wrong tree and need to stop. Now.
I'm just explaining that some people don't put that much personal effort into their gaming. This isn't a fault. It's just how they work.
For that kind of person, I can easily see how SoTC doesn't seem like the bees knees.
It's because the bees knees is there for the kind of person who puts themselves in the world easily. Much of the atmosphere you guys are talking about is there in a rough, sketchy form, but to really get into it as much as you guys have and to share it with someone else, what you are actually talking about when you say atmosphere is as much a reflection on how you guys approach the game as it is something objective you could pin down on paper. (And how I approach the game too)
Individual differences etc etc.
I would classify SoTC, more than CS and Pripyat, as a personal story generator or personal moment generator. So many elements are there in rough form that it is very easy for someone narratively inclined to work up a nice story, - a compelling, interesting moment or small narrative - to put more background and depth into these rough elements than is actually there. If you do that sort of thing with games - and I can do that with games that don't have ANY story or even full cohesion in their elements, let along something where all the rough elements are put together interestingly - you'll love it. If not, it'll just be a collection of rough edges and you'll be going ???. (Plus all the degrees in between. Some people might do that normally but SoTc just didn't push their buttons the right way for example)
Morninglord on
(PSN: Morninglord) (Steam: Morninglord) (WiiU: Morninglord22) I like to record and toss up a lot of random gaming videos here.
Originally, the game was a full Elder Scrolls styled open world. The problem was that they couldn't get the level streaming functional and they couldn't get the AI working seamlessly between the local and global levels. The idea was that anything not in your immediate vicinity would drop from fully functional AI into a simpler, more abstracted artificial life system that governed every being in the Zone. You can see bits and pieces of that system in the faction wars in Clear Sky. It should be obvious why it wasn't implemented for all NPCs in SoC.
You know, I like The Zone as is. I can't really imagine an entirely open Zone. I mean, if I could just meander over to Pripyat at the start, it would've been weird. If I just somehow managed to make it... Odd.
SoC feels good with its little linearity.
Are the bits of AI stuff left over what makes "defend X" complete itself? I actually find its best to just get far away from any point you're to defend. The AI will do it itself that way.
The Chernobyl disaster still happened in the 80s, and it didn't create the Zone or anything unusual. The Soviet government, however, used newly sectioned off area to run experiments on [SoC SPOILERS]. The second incident happened as a result of that in 2006ish, and that created the Zone as we know it.
Ah, so I was right. I can't wait to get my true ending and get the full details.
I look forward to getting a Gauss Rifle again, as well. I managed to get an exo out of The Bar. I am all set, I just wiped out those bloody hippies at the Warehouses (again). Moving stuff to my stash at The Bar, then I'm off to Red Forest.
Which parts of the feature set were broken/unfinished in SoC? I only ask, because I actually feel the game was rather complete. Was it stuff like repair kits that didn't make it in until later games?
Hey, I didn't see that question before.
Very little of the original design was present in the released product. Basically, about a year before release THQ got tired of throwing money into the perpetual development of the game and hired their own producer that they shipped out to GSC to get that shit on shelves. At that point, pretty much everything that wasn't functional was just dropped and the game was rejiggered into something that could go gold in the foreseeable future.
As has been mentioned, the game was originally supposed to be something like 12 square kilometers of seamless terrain that loaded procedurally as you walked around. A-Life was mostly scrapped due to the same kinds of persistent bugs and unpredictable behavior that lead to Oblivion's Radiant AI getting scaled back. The idea was that the game would globally track an abstracted life system in the background that, in addition to governing wildlife throughout the world, allowed all NPC stalkers to scavenge for artifacts, have persistent inventories, have full dynamic faction wars, and other stuff. By all stalkers, I want to make it clear that I mean every stalker in the Zone, regardless of their location, would be active at all times, with all of their actions impacting the world and its other inhabitants. They would all have a set of needs and wants that should be filled, and they'd act accordingly. This enabled a proper living economy where NPCs could trade with each other as well as the player. IIRC, it was possible to NPC stalkers to finish quests, most of which would be procedurally generated based on NPC needs. This included ones that you were in the process of completing, and even the main quest itself. The story also seemed to have gotten cut up pretty bad to fit into a more linear game than originally intended. It's really apparent if you read through the PDA entries as you go through the main quest. That's the major stuff, anyway.
Like Stolls said, there were vehicles (with fuel demands) that were cut at the last minute due to the area transitions and the fact that it was too easy to drive over an anomaly and die without any idea what happened. Several of the monster types didn't make it in, though they got modded in pretty quickly since the art assets and AI all shipped with the game. As of CoP, I think the cat is the only one that hasn't made an official appearance. Dynamic blowouts got cut and didn't appear as intended until CoP. Item repairs seemed like they just got dropped or forgotten about or something. There's a guy in Freedom's base that says he can repair items, but there's no game mechanic attached to that. I'm sure there's other stuff, but it's not coming to mind at the moment.
I reiterate does anyone know if there is any console love coming?
There's never been any mention of any other version of any of the games, and X-Ray is barely functional as a PC engine as it is. Now there are rumors that STALKER 2 will switch to CryEngine 3, which is at least a multiplatform engine, but I really wouldn't hold my breath on seeing a multiplatform release. The closest you're going to get is Metro 2033, which is from some former GSC technical leads that worked on SoC. That game is on the 360 and PS3 right now.
I'd like to see that game happen one day. Perhaps GSC could make another IP, if they ever get enough stock to move, with all those things in mind.
Still, I think, between the two of us, we can agree that what we got was worth the cuts. :P
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We don't even care... whether we care or not...
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Ninja Snarl PMy helmet is my burden.Ninja Snarl: Gone, but not forgotten.Registered Userregular
edited July 2010
Call of Pripyat takes the series closer to what it was always supposed to be but still doesn't get everything.
The vehicles are still left out but the game has fast travel so vehicles really aren't necessary. Instead of multiple small zones, there are a few very large zones. The Stalker AI means Stalkers really do wander freely to scrounge, fight, and at least give the appearance of gathering artifacts from anomalies (though I've never actually seen an NPC find or pick up an artifact). Critters also appear randomly, wander, attack basically anything not them (I've seen dog packs fighting bloodsuckers on multiple occasions), and even have feeding animations.
I remember seeing somebody write that Bethesda makes 90% of a great game and the modders take care of the last 10%. The STALKER games are a lot like that, just with a larger percentage handled by the modders. I'd probably say the STALKER games are 60% of a great game franchise with the rest left to the modders. Just for Shadow of Chernobyl, modded items include: AI altered to handle stealth properly (both with sound and darkness), massive texture overhauls, real-world item names, re-addition of vehicles, massive overhauls to the lighting, dozens of added weapons, fixed quests, randomly wandering anomalies, artifact "cooking" (dump an artifact into an anomaly and it changes into something else), and so on and so forth all the way down to the simple flashlight mod.
Folks enjoy the STALKER games less because of what they are originally and more because of mods which bring them closer to what they could be. Everything else is mostly the relatively non-linear atmosphere of survival and imminent death.
Critters also appear randomly, wander, attack basically anything not them (I've seen dog packs fighting bloodsuckers on multiple occasions), and even have feeding animations.
I remember seeing somebody write that Bethesda makes 90% of a great game and the modders take care of the last 10%. The STALKER games are a lot like that, just with a larger percentage handled by the modders. I'd probably say the STALKER games are 60% of a great game franchise with the rest left to the modders. Just for Shadow of Chernobyl, modded items include: AI altered to handle stealth properly (both with sound and darkness), massive texture overhauls, real-world item names, re-addition of vehicles, massive overhauls to the lighting, dozens of added weapons, fixed quests, randomly wandering anomalies, artifact "cooking" (dump an artifact into an anomaly and it changes into something else), and so on and so forth all the way down to the simple flashlight mod.
Folks enjoy the STALKER games less because of what they are originally and more because of mods which bring them closer to what they could be. Everything else is mostly the relatively non-linear atmosphere of survival and imminent death.
Nothing like walking back to The Bar from Cordon to find the psuedodogs dragging and chewing a corpse that wasn't there before.
Which mod are those things in? I've downloaded all the one's from the OP, but I'm still running vanilla. It'd be pretty rad to knife some bandits.
As of CoP, I think the cat is the only one that hasn't made an official appearance.
And would that be the reason for the cat meowings in the back ground during SoC? I always liked it as just a random animal noise. Knowing that there was a cat monster makes me more .
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...the hell did you do?
Either way, picked up CoP for 20 bucks at Target today, and been playing that. Though, after playing until the second major area (the name escapes me at the moment), I've picked up a hostage rescue mission.
Cleared out the 18 some bandits, and now I just need to get the guy home. He picks up a gun, wanders about 30 yards out... then stops, hides, and points his gun in a very specific direction, in low crouch.
"Oho! A bandit must have survived my cleansing!" Nope. Not a damn thing for a very very long way, and the guys in that direction after about 200 yards are a bunch of friendlies. So what the hell. I walk all the way back to the guys who gave me the quest, try to talk to them... aaaand crash.
Goddamnit.
PSN: theIceBurner, IceBurnerEU, IceBurner-JP | X-Link Kai: TheIceBurner
Dragon's Dogma: 192 Warrior Linty | 80 Strider Alicia | 32 Mage Terra
Unless you ALSO broke weapons spawning and they had some... really nasty guns that I don't know about because I haven't gone much in depth with any of the Stalker games.
Bandit rookies at the Cordon had access to a Makarov PM pistol, plus either a BM16 Full-length, or a Sawn-off Benelli M3 shotgun. They could also rarely have a PMM (real-world upgrade to the PM), APS machine pistol, a MAC-10 SMG, and RGD-5 grenades.
Regular-ranked bandits first appear in the Garbage. They would regularly have access to the PMM with a Benelli or MAC-10. Rarely they could have the AKS-74U carbine, HK MP5A3 SMG, or RGD-5 grenades.
(Note: I made no changes to which factions and ranks appear where, I just tweaked every profile.)
PSN: theIceBurner, IceBurnerEU, IceBurner-JP | X-Link Kai: TheIceBurner
Dragon's Dogma: 192 Warrior Linty | 80 Strider Alicia | 32 Mage Terra
Truly, I've gone to great lengths to satisfy my own whims, such as including weapon variants exclusively to have alternate skins or models, and have these used primarily by certain groups. For example the Mercs are assigned to use a different model of the Z-M Weapons LR300 ML than everyone else. Overall, they act as a source for all the the otherwise very out-of-place American-made guns.
Another example is that Duty rarely has an AKS-74U with a camo pattern, and the Spetznaz rarely has another.
I donated my custom ammo artwork to one of the two above mods (I forget which). If they haven't replaced it since, then I made the art for the 4-6x30, 5-7x28, new 9x19 types, new 9x19 types, new 12x76 types, .40, .44, .50 action express, .357, and new 762x54 type.
PSN: theIceBurner, IceBurnerEU, IceBurner-JP | X-Link Kai: TheIceBurner
Dragon's Dogma: 192 Warrior Linty | 80 Strider Alicia | 32 Mage Terra
I really wanna go stand on top of the train bridge in Cordon and watch things. I can run Stalker on highest settings no problem.
EDIT: It looks like I can, but I'd still like to hear what anybody has to add.
This second play through is more fun then I've had playing any FPS(/RPG?) since Deus Ex.
Now that I'm more familiar with things, the atmosphere is screaming bloody murder at me. Everything scares me and everything worries me.
I found myself disgusted at my own actions when I started taking quests to kill others. First, that coward Snitch hires me to off some Dutyers, I figured it was routine, they offended someone, so they die. Then I realized when hiring me he was just talking about how folks in exo make his work hard. Whatever, people die, mutants roam, life goes on.
Then I took a quest to kill a soldier. Just some soldier, not a big deal. They're cowards, extortionists and fascists. I find this guy at Agroprom. Except he isn't with any unit. He's in a swamp, in a hitched up trailer, cowering, murmuring to himself. When I get to him, he starts screaming, balled up in a corner, begging me not to shoot him. I talk to him and find out he ran away from his unit, because they were just being used as fodder to clog up the underground and feed its mutants. He told me of his plans to leave The Zone, find a chopper and just leave, he had no interest in the evil that his comrades were dealing.
I had to actually take a while before I made my choice. I raised Big Ben, and I quieted his screams with a single 9x39 round. I kind of just stared at him for a minute afterwards. In the end, I shrugged, and I decided that The Zone is harsh, and that I did what I was paid to do.
Of course, I then just decided to complete as many quests as possible because I wanted my exo, so I was killing stalkers left and right. For the most part, I was killing treacherous characters, but those two, along with the rookie stalker I killed, had me wondering about the honesty of my character's work.
I also took a stroll through that bloodsucker village in the Warehouses, at the behest of Murk. Never did that before, I was always in and out for the guy at The Bar. When I had to actually clear that place out, house by house, floor by floor... I could feel my heart going through my chest. It was bad enough dealing with bloodsuckers, but I started finding horrible macabre scenes. I fell into a pit with nothing but bones and a Bulldog 6. I found a bonefire with heads on pikes and corpses. Worse yet, there was the ever present sound of The Zone herself. Anomalies going off, men screaming in horror, weapons fire starting and then being silenced by the howls of beasts...
Then the doors start breaking? Fuck. Bloodsuckers coming through boarded up doors, disappearing and reappearing as I swept through houses, light on, Combat Chaser out.
This game deserves to be game of the decade. If CS and CoP are better than this, I will stop playing games all together. Nothing will ever trump these experiences.
I dunno how I missed that Quicklook. but it got me to bite the bullet and get the loyalty version off steam. I hope I can get deeper in this one. I spent many hours with various iterations and mods of SoC but never really progressed very far in the story cause even survival-horror-lite scares the shit outta me, get way too anxious in those dark creepy underground environments. But even if I dont finish CoP $20 is a paltry sum for the fun I can have above ground... in the daytime
On the other hand, you are not a standard gamer. I think you are the second person who has finished it and dismissed it with a wave of your hand.
For me, it's the way it all comes together. The game dumps you head-first into the world and asks you to keep up. You have to figure out how the world works without someone chatting in your ear every thirty steps telling you to look at Scripted Action A or Scenic Vista B. Your debut mission in Shadow is to take out eight mooks with a starting pea shooter, and it's on you to prove you're more than the raw meat everyone thinks you are. Something is very, very wrong in the Zone, but you have more immediate concerns; namely, just getting from A to B without getting shot, eaten, or vaporized.
The game flows well for me, going from town to field to dungeon with an occasional scripted attack here and there; it's built like an action game, but it has the spirit of a good adventure in it. I feel it handles the transition well, and even if I'm funneled into a linear action section it doesn't feel contrived. The game's playing by the rules, and that's how the dice rolled. The semi-random nature of the Zone ensures that even setpiece battles don't always go the same way. Sometimes that Duty group gets their clock cleaned out in Wild Territory, others they sweep through the map and do the hard work for me.
Clear Sky and especially Call of Pripyat are both worthy titles, essentially bookending the experience. Pripyat, in particular, takes all the changes from Clear Sky and makes them work, and it builds the quest layout solidly without interrupting the feel of the Zone; it's really quite impressive how often quests intersect and options open up depending on who worked with who. But for my money, there's just something special about the way Shadow is structured.
I hesitate to use the word 'magic', but there is something to the Stalker games that not everyone will see. If you do see it though, if it does click for you, then it stays with you in ways that even well-presented games won't.
At least, that's my take on it. Your mileage may vary and all that.
Now playing: Teardown and Baldur's Gate 3 (co-op)
Sunday Spotlight: Horror Tales: The Wine
The ballistics model is also extraordinarily detailed, accounting for literally all real-world factors except wind. Main problem is that by default in SoC and CS, the settings limit the gunplay. Again, the right tweaks and it's incredible.
Same goes for the AI in the first two games. Once polished off so that visibility and sound are less game-like and more realistic (and so that people can't die from spawning in campfires, which is unfortunately incurable), the proper setting for the game is complete.
PSN: theIceBurner, IceBurnerEU, IceBurner-JP | X-Link Kai: TheIceBurner
Dragon's Dogma: 192 Warrior Linty | 80 Strider Alicia | 32 Mage Terra
I saw that. :P
SoC, for me, really is just magic. The atmosphere is perfect for me, the characters are charming*, the use of both English and foreign languages really upped the atmosphere, the shooting mechanics (call 'em wonky, but I love 'em) make you feel like you're a person**.
The lighting as IceBurner mentioned is fantastic. Indoor environments are unparalleled in my experience. The sound goes so far to it, as well. This is boosted by the fact that a lot of sounds you hear are actual events, not just canned. The sounds of dogs whining from bullet wounds, men screaming as they're torn apart by anomalies, and mutants skulking in the next building.
That random aspect that Stolls mentioned is also great. Unlike Fallout 3 where open world just translates to "albino rads kill everything", The Zone is alive. You'll find Loners and Dutyers randomly gathering and hunting together. The sheer volume of stuff you won't even realize is there unless you play a second time, the countless customized weapons and unique individuals, tracked and cataloged on your PDA. Its just great.
Its magic. I can't understand not liking it. I can't understand not loving it.
*The odd English actually goes a hell of a long way for me. It makes them feel like people, not scripts. A lot of dialogue in media tends to flow unnaturally and feels pre-thought (most real people will say things incorrectly as they stumble for words and such). Normal people don't just spit quips and perfect lines at each other, not without familiarity.
**It can be amazingly frustrating when you lie in wait, scoped, fully prone, and still miss. That perfect ambush? Gone out of the window. But it works. Forget the reload, get to cover, lean around that tree and fill 'em full of lead, Marked One!
I feel like im really missing out on something that I should at least try
The mutants were a disappointment, for a start they were entirely unthreatening. I liked the humanish one with the mind bending power but that showed up about 3 times in the whole game. Turning around and seeing glowing yellow eyes floating in the air towards me was cool, but the bloodsucker still drops to a few bursts. The snork was piss weak and the pseudogiant(?), again, only appeared a few times and wasn't even the raging behemoth of destruction I was expecting.
The factions were under-used, not really adding anything to the setting. Aside from right near the end when I could shoot freedom for duty or shoot duty for freedom it seemed redundant. I shot neither, because I never really felt any reason why I should care either way.
The anomolies as well, basically a small patch on the ground and if you walk in it you die. Otherwise, pointless. I was expecting weird shit, time distortions, gravity wells, bizarro weather..not a few flashing lights on the ground that hurt you if you walk on them (like you ever would since the beeping is so obvious).
Then the content..main story is pretty short, side quests being random generations of boring fetch quests doesn't really help.
The shooting was good. I found every single pistol to be utterly worthless though. Not just in pathetic accuracy but you could never aim down the sights because every shot you fire causes the pistol to jerk up in your hand so much that you can no longer see what you're trying to aim at. You couldn't really stealth either because it appeared to be completely broken.
It wasn't a bad game, but it's individual parts just didn't really hit the mark for me. It seemed like a game that had a lot of potential, but not one i'm interested in playing more than once.
It's the first Stalker game I've gotten to put any real significant time into since it hasn't crashed once!
Anyway I haven't even gone to look at those crashed helicopters yet, is there like a point where I should or should I buy all the info from that Owl guy first or what, because so far I'm more concerned with solving side quests and finding stashes and getting sweet loot than doing my mission
Also I love how this game changes me as a person when I play it. Normally I'm this nice, goody two-shoes kind of guy in all games, but in this one I will watch as two factions shoot at each other and then watch as a pack of dogs tears the survivors apart and then I'll go up and loot them all
Ain't no fuckin' around in the Zone, son
PSN ID : DetectiveOlivaw | TWITTER | STEAM ID | NEVER FORGET
I'd disagree with this, because I felt the world was very much not a post-apocalyptic one. It was alive, and outright filled with life. Boars, pseudodogs, blind dogs, fleshes... It sounds very little, but they had cycles.
You could walk past a pack of sleeping dogs, hoping not to wake them. Like when Bugs Bunny gets Yosemite Sam into the lion pen and drops an alarm clock in. Except your face will be removed if they wake.
The trees are green, so is the grass, the buildings are lit if they're inhabited. There are, basically, towns all over the place. Stalkers making their way across The Zone, settling in for the night in enclosures and singing songs by the fire.
For me, the world felt alive.
I agree and disagree. Mutants just weren't numerous enough, mainly. Plenty of bloodsuckers, but only two controllers, two pseudogiants and one place with poltergeists. I think.
Bloodsuckers can be right bastards. So can Snorks. I can typically tap 'em in the head, but Snorks especially, have this cruel habit of jumping at you from the sides out of tall grass.
I'd also like to know what difficulty setting you were on. I was having a piss easy time on the second setting, so I bumped it up to the third. It wasn't drastic, but I had to watch myself a bit more. Things were better.
I'll agree to this, but at the same time, I felt immersed in the world. This allowed me to feel out the factions.
By the time I reached The Bar, I felt like I owed an allegiance to them for offering shelter to Loners and their incursions in the Zone against bandits and mutants. I also felt antagonistic towards Freedom, as I view them as weak, unable to stop the Zone and no better than bandits.
I also felt like I was one of the Loners, as I'd spent a lot of time moving through their camps, fighting off bandits, and sitting down to hear the guitar songs. They'd go through the gambit of animations. Eating, sleeping, drinking, talking, joking, singing. The fact I didn't understand them at all, made it easier to imagine them as actual people having a non-scripted conversation.
Things like the tunnel to Yantar are a great example of needing your bolts. Then there are the electrical storms that you need to time to get through.
There are gravity wells, though. Sort of. One of the anomalies will actually pull you in, throw you up, slam you down and rip you apart. Hate that thing. One inch too close and you're fucked.
I also like the effect, where as you get closer, the screen gets whiter. This makes it harder to actually see the anomaly.
The quests aren't actually random and do run out. The order in which they show up is random, though.
So one play through you might be asked to get a Flash, then a Fireball. Next might be a Fireball then Flash. Randomized but not.
Again, I liked the pistol shooting. Lately I've been using my pistols a lot more, and I can almost guarantee a headshot with them at medium range. Even though the accuracy rating on my Big Ben is nearly 0 (it doesn't even show up on the line). The jerk feels just right, because I wouldn't expect to fire round after round without needing to readjust.
Stealthing was nonexistent. I tried it a couple times. I mean, sometimes, you can get away with it. I found a silenced sniper rifle (Vintar BC, for example) was pretty much the end times for the enemy.
Its funny, the exact things you didn't like, I did. :P
Eh, I'd recommend Call of Pripyat, but these games just may not be for you. Also, of course pistols will jerk up in your hand when you shoot them. They tried to model the gunplay rather accurately. Anomalies are also in huge clusters in CoP, and the only way to get artifacts is to have a detector in one hand, a bolt in the other, and pray to God that whirligig that's humming in your ear isn't as close at it feels.
Also, Olivaw, I don't believe buying info from owl is necessary in any way, You'll just have to check out the helicopters yourself. There's no time limit either, so do everything your heart desires.
Also, this game makes me ruthless. Not Bandit ruthless, but let's just say those bandits that frisked me when I was rescuing someone... well, they didn't live long enough to go spend it.
On the other hand, sometimes people simply don't like a game. There is a need to come up with a laundry list of reasons why, but I think it's okay if a game doesn't click with someone.
I don't know which of these you are Rami if any, but they are both understandable in their own way.
I like open worlds (was also disappointed it was just 4-5 areas you fast travelled between) and I like shooters. I'll probably check out Call of Pripyat later because, as I said, Shadows felt like a game with potential but was too rough. If they refined it's elements for the sequels then it's probably worth another shot.
I just spent a good while farming soldiers for AK's, Ammo and medkits.
Then I managed to find several bandit armor in secret caches.
So far I'm much happier and set up nicer than I would have been in a base game.
While the world was smaller than I have first realized, it was still quite big given you had to walk every mile. Words do not describe how giddy I am to finish SoC and move on to CS/CoP.
I hope CoP clicks for you, because I think once it does, if it does, you'll be hooked.
Also, bolts were for detecting anomalies. You throw them at an area, and they set off a anomaly (if they pass directly through it). So for that tunnel in Yantar, instead of moving inch by inch staring at fumes, you could chuck the bolt down a couple meters and move around the anomalies as they went off. It helps when things get real white around crushing anomalies.
Edit: I've been watching PA member's AlexPHott's LP of SoC for the past couple days. Good stuff. You guys should give it a watch.
http://www.youtube.com/view_play_list?p=A819FBD98B49B078
Nonetheless, I plan to invest more time into giving the game another try.
The thing about SoC is that it was an unfinished masterpiece. The game came out 4 years ago (using a technology base nearly a decade old at that point), when GSC was trying to do things in a shooter that nobody had ever attempted before. A good portion of the featureset is at best incomplete and at worst busted-ass busted. Now the majority of those issues have been addressed through mods and sequels, but that's something you have to accept and weigh against the fact that you won't get a similar experience out of any other shooter out there. STALKER doesn't pander to the player. It's a harsh game with harsh mechanics set in a harsh world, and I love it for that.
It's an acquired taste. The animations you just get used to. The voicing is kind of endearing for its horribleness. It's unrelentingly narmy.
All right, people. It is not a gerbil. It is not a hamster. It is not a guinea pig. It is a death rabbit. Death. Rabbit. Say it with me, now.
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you mean it originally wasnt segregated into load zones like it is now?
The Zone really is unique. Its an actual ecosystem you can watch live. I kinda wish I could become a spectator and just zip around like I was waiting to respawn or something, heh.
Post-post apocalypse is a good way to describe it. The Chernobyl disaster happened in their reality, but I think it was... around mid-00's? I'm pretty sure NPCs say something about a second blow out happening around then creating the anomalies/mutants/artifacts/good times.
Two disasters and The Zone thrives. Truly, you cannot tame The Zone, it must be defeated. Damn hippies and their anarchistic nonsense.
Which parts of the feature set were broken/unfinished in SoC? I only ask, because I actually feel the game was rather complete. Was it stuff like repair kits that didn't make it in until later games?
The Chernobyl disaster still happened in the 80s, and it didn't create the Zone or anything unusual. The Soviet government, however, used newly sectioned off area to run experiments on [SoC SPOILERS]. The second incident happened as a result of that in 2006ish, and that created the Zone as we know it.
All right, people. It is not a gerbil. It is not a hamster. It is not a guinea pig. It is a death rabbit. Death. Rabbit. Say it with me, now.
There are also some quest-specific trimmings, some of which you still see scraps of in the game. Approaching the Brain Scorcher was supposed to be more complex somehow; a note in your PDA and some stuff in dialog files (not in the game itself) suggest some crazy old stalker told you about safe zones on the approach, and you could only move toward the facility when it wasn't being fired up. There was also a quest for Duty to let you into their compound earlier.
Monger's got the right of it: this game is harsh in every sense of the word. I'm all for accessibility, but sometimes I like a game that'll actually challenge me and force me to keep up. Combine with the adventure and the setting (which is real enough to make it something other than Dystopian Wasteland X) and it sticks as one of the most memorable games I've played in a long time.
And who doesn't love GET OUT OF HERE STALKER guy? Bad people, that's who.
Edit: Regarding the timeline, from the manual; the "Second Incident" took place April 13, 2006; maybe two weeks short of twenty years after the original meltdown. Shadow is six years later, sometime in mid-2012.
Now playing: Teardown and Baldur's Gate 3 (co-op)
Sunday Spotlight: Horror Tales: The Wine
Don't take this the wrong way because I also get into it pretty heavily so if you are taking this as a strong criticism you are barking up the wrong tree and need to stop. Now.
I'm just explaining that some people don't put that much personal effort into their gaming. This isn't a fault. It's just how they work.
For that kind of person, I can easily see how SoTC doesn't seem like the bees knees.
It's because the bees knees is there for the kind of person who puts themselves in the world easily. Much of the atmosphere you guys are talking about is there in a rough, sketchy form, but to really get into it as much as you guys have and to share it with someone else, what you are actually talking about when you say atmosphere is as much a reflection on how you guys approach the game as it is something objective you could pin down on paper. (And how I approach the game too)
Individual differences etc etc.
I would classify SoTC, more than CS and Pripyat, as a personal story generator or personal moment generator. So many elements are there in rough form that it is very easy for someone narratively inclined to work up a nice story, - a compelling, interesting moment or small narrative - to put more background and depth into these rough elements than is actually there. If you do that sort of thing with games - and I can do that with games that don't have ANY story or even full cohesion in their elements, let along something where all the rough elements are put together interestingly - you'll love it. If not, it'll just be a collection of rough edges and you'll be going ???. (Plus all the degrees in between. Some people might do that normally but SoTc just didn't push their buttons the right way for example)
You know, I like The Zone as is. I can't really imagine an entirely open Zone. I mean, if I could just meander over to Pripyat at the start, it would've been weird. If I just somehow managed to make it... Odd.
SoC feels good with its little linearity.
Are the bits of AI stuff left over what makes "defend X" complete itself? I actually find its best to just get far away from any point you're to defend. The AI will do it itself that way.
Ah, so I was right. I can't wait to get my true ending and get the full details.
I look forward to getting a Gauss Rifle again, as well. I managed to get an exo out of The Bar. I am all set, I just wiped out those bloody hippies at the Warehouses (again). Moving stuff to my stash at The Bar, then I'm off to Red Forest.
Very little of the original design was present in the released product. Basically, about a year before release THQ got tired of throwing money into the perpetual development of the game and hired their own producer that they shipped out to GSC to get that shit on shelves. At that point, pretty much everything that wasn't functional was just dropped and the game was rejiggered into something that could go gold in the foreseeable future.
As has been mentioned, the game was originally supposed to be something like 12 square kilometers of seamless terrain that loaded procedurally as you walked around. A-Life was mostly scrapped due to the same kinds of persistent bugs and unpredictable behavior that lead to Oblivion's Radiant AI getting scaled back. The idea was that the game would globally track an abstracted life system in the background that, in addition to governing wildlife throughout the world, allowed all NPC stalkers to scavenge for artifacts, have persistent inventories, have full dynamic faction wars, and other stuff. By all stalkers, I want to make it clear that I mean every stalker in the Zone, regardless of their location, would be active at all times, with all of their actions impacting the world and its other inhabitants. They would all have a set of needs and wants that should be filled, and they'd act accordingly. This enabled a proper living economy where NPCs could trade with each other as well as the player. IIRC, it was possible to NPC stalkers to finish quests, most of which would be procedurally generated based on NPC needs. This included ones that you were in the process of completing, and even the main quest itself. The story also seemed to have gotten cut up pretty bad to fit into a more linear game than originally intended. It's really apparent if you read through the PDA entries as you go through the main quest. That's the major stuff, anyway.
Like Stolls said, there were vehicles (with fuel demands) that were cut at the last minute due to the area transitions and the fact that it was too easy to drive over an anomaly and die without any idea what happened. Several of the monster types didn't make it in, though they got modded in pretty quickly since the art assets and AI all shipped with the game. As of CoP, I think the cat is the only one that hasn't made an official appearance. Dynamic blowouts got cut and didn't appear as intended until CoP. Item repairs seemed like they just got dropped or forgotten about or something. There's a guy in Freedom's base that says he can repair items, but there's no game mechanic attached to that. I'm sure there's other stuff, but it's not coming to mind at the moment.
There's never been any mention of any other version of any of the games, and X-Ray is barely functional as a PC engine as it is. Now there are rumors that STALKER 2 will switch to CryEngine 3, which is at least a multiplatform engine, but I really wouldn't hold my breath on seeing a multiplatform release. The closest you're going to get is Metro 2033, which is from some former GSC technical leads that worked on SoC. That game is on the 360 and PS3 right now.
All right, people. It is not a gerbil. It is not a hamster. It is not a guinea pig. It is a death rabbit. Death. Rabbit. Say it with me, now.
Still, I think, between the two of us, we can agree that what we got was worth the cuts. :P
The vehicles are still left out but the game has fast travel so vehicles really aren't necessary. Instead of multiple small zones, there are a few very large zones. The Stalker AI means Stalkers really do wander freely to scrounge, fight, and at least give the appearance of gathering artifacts from anomalies (though I've never actually seen an NPC find or pick up an artifact). Critters also appear randomly, wander, attack basically anything not them (I've seen dog packs fighting bloodsuckers on multiple occasions), and even have feeding animations.
I remember seeing somebody write that Bethesda makes 90% of a great game and the modders take care of the last 10%. The STALKER games are a lot like that, just with a larger percentage handled by the modders. I'd probably say the STALKER games are 60% of a great game franchise with the rest left to the modders. Just for Shadow of Chernobyl, modded items include: AI altered to handle stealth properly (both with sound and darkness), massive texture overhauls, real-world item names, re-addition of vehicles, massive overhauls to the lighting, dozens of added weapons, fixed quests, randomly wandering anomalies, artifact "cooking" (dump an artifact into an anomaly and it changes into something else), and so on and so forth all the way down to the simple flashlight mod.
Folks enjoy the STALKER games less because of what they are originally and more because of mods which bring them closer to what they could be. Everything else is mostly the relatively non-linear atmosphere of survival and imminent death.
Also, this thread just made me fire up CoP again, with mods this time. Damn you all.
Also also, is the movie "Stalker" availiable via the netflix?
Nothing like walking back to The Bar from Cordon to find the psuedodogs dragging and chewing a corpse that wasn't there before.
Which mod are those things in? I've downloaded all the one's from the OP, but I'm still running vanilla. It'd be pretty rad to knife some bandits.
And would that be the reason for the cat meowings in the back ground during SoC? I always liked it as just a random animal noise. Knowing that there was a cat monster makes me more