Don't build sheen on veigar. You don't really want to be auto attacking dudes. Get mejais, tear of the goddess, zhonya's ring, and kill their squishiest dude as many times as you can
edit: I also think I ended up with another mana regen item though I can't remember what it was
So i'm thinking tonight I'm going to try some more Veigar (had a blast with him the past couple days) but i'm looking for some advice on builds. I had been building his mostly with mana and AP. Starting off with a sheen and moving on to get big AP items later. I'm noticing though that while I have a sizable mana pool once it drains it is hard to get back.
Should I focus more on MP regen items instead of boosting max mp? And and what point do I stop worrying about MP and focus on AP?
Final question being any suggestions on skill priority. Right now I bounce back and forth between focusing Dark Matter and the Stun and of course grab my ult whenever it is available for skill up. But should I focus less on the stun and more on my Q and W?
For abilities focus on q and e until after lvl 6. Then max out your q and max out your w. Finish off e last, you just want the first couple points to stun them long enough to hit them with your w.
As far as items go start with a saphire crystal for the extra mana. Focus on last hitting with your q and usually when your out of mana you should be around 580 gold. Head back and buy a tear of the goddess.
After that get the basic boots and upgrade the tear into and archangels staff. I usually get sorc boots but if your facing a magic/disable heavy team get merc treads. Once you have boots work on a deathfire grasp as this item will allow you to take off half or more hp from tanks late game. Next get a zhonyas ring, rylais scepter for survival and last a void staff. The game wont usually go on that long but if it does its a nice addition. Late game you can get 700-1000AP which is insane.
If you want mejais I would suggest getting it after basic boots. You want it early enough so it starts to snowball. Veigar is pretty squishy so if they have gankers like twitch, shaco or eve then I would avoid it. Your probably going to die too much.
Don't build sheen on veigar. You don't really want to be auto attacking dudes. Get mejais, tear of the goddess, zhonya's ring, and kill their squishiest dude as many times as you can
edit: I also think I ended up with another mana regen item though I can't remember what it was
Though Lichbane can ensue some hilarity on Veigar late game.
And you definitely want to get that Tear upgraded to Archangel's Staff.
Don't build sheen on veigar. You don't really want to be auto attacking dudes. Get mejais, tear of the goddess, zhonya's ring, and kill their squishiest dude as many times as you can
edit: I also think I ended up with another mana regen item though I can't remember what it was
In that order? Also bootwise i'm been going sorcerer's for the Magic pen.
Delphinidaes on
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For abilities focus on q and e until after lvl 6. Then max out your q and max out your w. Finish off e last, you just want the first couple points to stun them long enough to hit them with your w.
Level 1 gives you 1.5 seconds stun, which should be enough with the 1.2 second drop-time of Dark Matter. You just need to be casting it right as they move into the stun. That extra .25s per level will not help you more than buffing your damage will.
My Veigar item build goes more like Amp Book and health pots.
So what's everyones take on boots for Vlad? I have been going Sorc. boots to avoid having to buy a different spell pen. item, but I see lots of people buying the higher move speed boots and could see those being pretty solid too.
So what's everyones take on boots for Vlad? I have been going Sorc. boots to avoid having to buy a different spell pen. item, but I see lots of people buying the higher move speed boots and could see those being pretty solid too.
I usually go with Boots of Swiftness, because getting pepperoni under a runner or getting a Rylai's-slowed spell off to pepperoni under a runner can give your team time to catch up, which can be a gamechanger
of course I also just like getting around the map faster, so don't pay much mind to me
1) what should I do for skill order? W>E>Q seems to be the best for plain fatness, but putting Q at a higher priority would let me do a lot more damage
Oh the tear being upgraded to a staff pretty much goes without saying. Sorc boots are great as well. Dfg is probably the other item I had with mana regen
for items, hearts of gold into randuin's, sunfires, banshee's veil, etc
basically anything with health on it and you are golden
I like to rush a sunfire since it makes you farm way easier but I feel guilty against magic heavy teams so I might not always
also yes high health is great, the more health you have the more hp your passive returns on every skill use. 2% of fat is a moderate amount of fat back, which makes you super handsome. Chasing with body slam and regening a billion health each time is so good
Armor Pen Gragas has had quite a bit of success. I ended up getting a ghostblade to make up for my deficit in cooldown reduction, and to throw more armor pen into the mix. Super fat, ignores your armor, and runs like an enraged buffalo? Sounds good to me.
Edit: Also, to respond the inquiry about items. Aegis of the Legion. First thing I get, every game. It gives you a fantastic baseline for armor/mr, a good slice of health, a bit of damage, and helps your whole team. Also makes you a bit more of a priority to the other team since hey, you're buffing everyone. After that is usually the heart of gold unless they are really really magic heavy, in which case a negatron cloak into a banshee's. But as others said - randuins, sunfire, banshee's, all very good. I like a frozen mallet in there too, if I feel I have my resists high enough.
Oh my god AP Shaco, setting up a gank at our golem without even using your god damn jack in the boxes for the third time will only get you killed. Again.
Is Heimer free this week? Why is that asshole showing up in so many games today? I think I've played 5 games and I'm at 4 out of 5 with Heimer present.
He single-handedly makes this game not fun to play. He isn't an uber player killer or anything, but a decent Heimer can make a win nearly impossible. It just isn't fun to go against him.
Is Heimer free this week? Why is that asshole showing up in so many games today? I think I've played 5 games and I'm at 4 out of 5 with Heimer present.
He single-handedly makes this game not fun to play. He isn't an uber player killer or anything, but a decent Heimer can make a win nearly impossible. It just isn't fun to go against him.
I agree with this statement, until I started playing Mordekaiser. :winky: But yeah when I'm not on Mord Heimer is one of the most irritating heroes to go against. A good Heimer can shut down lanes like noones business.
Delphinidaes on
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Yeah it's just that my runes are set up for playing Kassadin and Vlad so they'd be pretty much totally useless with Garen.
What runes do you run with Garen? 9/21/0 Masteries I'm guessing?
Dodge runes are great for yellow and proccing the +10% movespeed, scaling CDR for blue since that's all I've bought and it's good on every hero, and arpen is great for red since all his abilities deal physical based damage, including his ult (which means his ult's damaged is reduced by armor as well.) For masteries I usually run 7/22/1 with crit/exhaust and cooldowns and a point in runspeed and use the last point in defense to max out magic resist. You can alter this depending on what you prefer for your summoner abilites.
Actually, apparently Garens ultimate is magical damage. His other abilities are physical.
around level 8 I said, "man why does he only have level 1- oh my god yaaay!"
he did awfully and called me an idiot when I recommended turrets to him in the postgame
also, very first time I used Gragas's ult I kinda killed a teammate, a little. My Xin friend was being tower-dived by Vlad and some melee -- he might maybe have escaped, but vlad was coming near the turret and I said "hey I can use my ult to make him be hit by the turret more!" I knock him close to my teammate, he kills my teammate and pepperonis out
Gragas's ult is everything I could want, though. It's "fuck off," it's "c'mere," it disorients and debuffs. Between that and Body Slamming through walls, Gragas is stupid fun.
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Dac VinS-s-screw you! I only listen to DOUBLE MUSIC!Registered Userregular
edited August 2010
Have I mentioned how much I enjoy teammates who doesn't know that a team needs a tank?
Have I mentioned how much I enjoy teammates who doesn't know that a team needs a tank?
This isn't strictly true, but you need somebody capable of getting into the mix without dying, or have mostly characters that are very able to escape when needed (Ezreal, Kassadin), or have a support capable of saving a focused teammate (Kayle, Zilean). It really makes the team composition far more critical if you go tankless, and it's very easy to do it wrong.
Blah why did I buy Garen I should have bought Olaf >:(
Hm, I play this game with my friend, and he mains garen. Let me tell you, Garen is way better than Olaf. Olaf kind of sucks. Just make sure you go with a tanky build for Garen, you'll get more damage out of it than a DPS build (in team fights, of course).
But if you want to switch to a better champion than Garen, I would just skip to Poppy and destroy people with sheen. Olaf is too easily focused and his slow is garbage.
Beck on
Lucas's Franklin Badge reflected the lightning back!
Was grabbing Nashor's Tooth then Guinsoo's Rageblade with Swiftness/Mercs depending on the team.
Thats basically it right there. The other hybrid items like Triforce or Gunblade can work or you can go for defensive items if needed. I think I've played like mayyybe 3 games with Kayle where I get to buy something else after boots/rageblade/nashor's.
I'm still using mp5/lvl in yellow and cooldown blues. If HP is really so much a concern that you are runing for it in yellow I'd advocate a doran's ring first and/or learning how not to get harassed and killed. Rules 1-20 of the game are 'Don't Die' so it never hurts to practice that.
Ap/lvl works out to something like 27AP at level 18. I'd personally rather have ~6% CDR throughout the whole game so I can get more free gold from creeps.
Mpen red is indeed a solid idea as are the HP quints; more specialized choices might also work but you'll use HP on everyone and Mpen on whoever isn't an autoattack physical champ basically.
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AlectharAlan ShoreWe're not territorial about that sort of thing, are we?Registered Userregular
I'm still using mp5/lvl in yellow and cooldown blues. If HP is really so much a concern that you are runing for it in yellow I'd advocate a doran's ring first and/or learning how not to get harassed and killed. Rules 1-20 of the game are 'Don't Die' so it never hurts to practice that.
Ap/lvl works out to something like 27AP at level 18. I'd personally rather have ~6% CDR throughout the whole game so I can get more free gold from creeps.
Mpen red is indeed a solid idea as are the HP quints; more specialized choices might also work but you'll use HP on everyone and Mpen on whoever isn't an autoattack physical champ basically.
Same deal for the CDR glyphs, really, they're always useful, though expensive.
Blah why did I buy Garen I should have bought Olaf >:(
Hm, I play this game with my friend, and he mains garen. Let me tell you, Garen is way better than Olaf. Olaf kind of sucks. Just make sure you go with a tanky build for Garen, you'll get more damage out of it than a DPS build (in team fights, of course).
But if you want to switch to a better champion than Garen, I would just skip to Poppy and destroy people with sheen. Olaf is too easily focused and his slow is garbage.
Olaf is very good. If you think he can be focused easily, you haven't played with or against a good Olaf. Between his ult, high values on every survival stat (HP, Armor, MR), and Ghost, he's pretty much impossible to focus easily, except on fail teams.
He can also jungle from level 1, which makes him extremely good for team comps, esp. in normal mode. Given the chance, I try to grab a team comp with 1 jungler every game, and I actually like his jungling the most. Warwick is much better these days since Riot foolishly nerfed Cleanse into the ground, but if they ever fix it, Olaf is better vs. cleanse heavy teams.
Edit: To clarify, he isn't "I'll play Olaf in the game to win the money I need to save the family farm," good, but I have had more good games than bad with him.
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ResIpsaLoquiturNot a grammar nazi, just alt-write.Registered Userregular
Blah why did I buy Garen I should have bought Olaf >:(
Hm, I play this game with my friend, and he mains garen. Let me tell you, Garen is way better than Olaf. Olaf kind of sucks. Just make sure you go with a tanky build for Garen, you'll get more damage out of it than a DPS build (in team fights, of course).
But if you want to switch to a better champion than Garen, I would just skip to Poppy and destroy people with sheen. Olaf is too easily focused and his slow is garbage.
Olaf is very good. If you think he can be focused easily, you haven't played with or against a good Olaf. Between his ult, high values on every survival stat (HP, Armor, MR), and Ghost, he's pretty much impossible to focus easily, except on fail teams.
He can also jungle from level 1, which makes him extremely good for team comps, esp. in normal mode. Given the chance, I try to grab a team comp with 1 jungler every game, and I actually like his jungling the most. Warwick is much better these days since Riot foolishly nerfed Cleanse into the ground, but if they ever fix it, Olaf is better vs. cleanse heavy teams.
Edit: To clarify, he isn't "I'll play Olaf in the game to win the money I need to save the family farm," good, but I have had more good games than bad with him.
Olaf is just a lot of fun. You get rewarded for diving into a fight and committing to it.
I don't really get Garen. It feels like you spend the entire game desperately farming so you can stop being incredibly mediocre.
He just...isn't a meaningful threat. I don't know how to rectify that problem. Maybe it's just because my teams were awful and I had nothing to work with, but it just didn't feel like I could help. I'm used to playing characters that can always make a difference.
Posts
edit: I also think I ended up with another mana regen item though I can't remember what it was
oh everybody laughed
but i didn't
i was the teammate
I HAD JUST POPPED GHOST AND THOUGHT I WAS GOING TO GET AWAY FROM THAT FIDDLES FAILED CROWSTORM
FUUUUUUUUUUUUU
went like 0-1-14 and the 1 was because of awful lag
the fat was there, but there was no damage, because I got into the game and realized I had no idea about skill priorities
what are gragas skill priorities, you guys
For abilities focus on q and e until after lvl 6. Then max out your q and max out your w. Finish off e last, you just want the first couple points to stun them long enough to hit them with your w.
As far as items go start with a saphire crystal for the extra mana. Focus on last hitting with your q and usually when your out of mana you should be around 580 gold. Head back and buy a tear of the goddess.
After that get the basic boots and upgrade the tear into and archangels staff. I usually get sorc boots but if your facing a magic/disable heavy team get merc treads. Once you have boots work on a deathfire grasp as this item will allow you to take off half or more hp from tanks late game. Next get a zhonyas ring, rylais scepter for survival and last a void staff. The game wont usually go on that long but if it does its a nice addition. Late game you can get 700-1000AP which is insane.
If you want mejais I would suggest getting it after basic boots. You want it early enough so it starts to snowball. Veigar is pretty squishy so if they have gankers like twitch, shaco or eve then I would avoid it. Your probably going to die too much.
Steam Username:Glirk_Dient
Though Lichbane can ensue some hilarity on Veigar late game.
And you definitely want to get that Tear upgraded to Archangel's Staff.
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Ghost in the Linkshell Item Requisitioning
Let me know you are from PA, otherwise I will likely ignore you.
In that order? Also bootwise i'm been going sorcerer's for the Magic pen.
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Level 1 gives you 1.5 seconds stun, which should be enough with the 1.2 second drop-time of Dark Matter. You just need to be casting it right as they move into the stun. That extra .25s per level will not help you more than buffing your damage will.
My Veigar item build goes more like Amp Book and health pots.
Kage's Lucky Pick -> Zhonya's Ring -> Rylai's -> Deathfire Grasp
Buy boots wherever they fit. And don't underestimate Elixer of Brilliance.
SC2: KillerCodeMk | LoL: KillerCodeMonky | FFXIV: Shea Demvas (Sargantas)
Ghost in the Linkshell Item Requisitioning
Let me know you are from PA, otherwise I will likely ignore you.
AssPlow
I usually go with Boots of Swiftness, because getting pepperoni under a runner or getting a Rylai's-slowed spell off to pepperoni under a runner can give your team time to catch up, which can be a gamechanger
of course I also just like getting around the map faster, so don't pay much mind to me
1) what should I do for skill order? W>E>Q seems to be the best for plain fatness, but putting Q at a higher priority would let me do a lot more damage
2) items, please. gragas items.
for items, hearts of gold into randuin's, sunfires, banshee's veil, etc
basically anything with health on it and you are golden
I played a guy a few weeks ago named "fuckyounerd"
What's a name filter? Riot doesn't know!
I like to rush a sunfire since it makes you farm way easier but I feel guilty against magic heavy teams so I might not always
also yes high health is great, the more health you have the more hp your passive returns on every skill use. 2% of fat is a moderate amount of fat back, which makes you super handsome. Chasing with body slam and regening a billion health each time is so good
Edit: Also, to respond the inquiry about items. Aegis of the Legion. First thing I get, every game. It gives you a fantastic baseline for armor/mr, a good slice of health, a bit of damage, and helps your whole team. Also makes you a bit more of a priority to the other team since hey, you're buffing everyone. After that is usually the heart of gold unless they are really really magic heavy, in which case a negatron cloak into a banshee's. But as others said - randuins, sunfire, banshee's, all very good. I like a frozen mallet in there too, if I feel I have my resists high enough.
turns out AssPlow was really quite a good shen
overall it was a very good even game despite the beginning showing what a sad place the internet is
someone said they were tired because they were at the beach all day swimming and immediately it turned into a bunch of racial slurs!
// Switch: SW-5306-0651-6424 //
they were all physical damage, with the exception of Akali
I rushed sunfire and went 9-0-10
I really like Gragas, a lot
He single-handedly makes this game not fun to play. He isn't an uber player killer or anything, but a decent Heimer can make a win nearly impossible. It just isn't fun to go against him.
I agree with this statement, until I started playing Mordekaiser. :winky: But yeah when I'm not on Mord Heimer is one of the most irritating heroes to go against. A good Heimer can shut down lanes like noones business.
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Actually, apparently Garens ultimate is magical damage. His other abilities are physical.
White FC: 0819 3350 1787
he put points into turrets last
around level 8 I said, "man why does he only have level 1- oh my god yaaay!"
he did awfully and called me an idiot when I recommended turrets to him in the postgame
also, very first time I used Gragas's ult I kinda killed a teammate, a little. My Xin friend was being tower-dived by Vlad and some melee -- he might maybe have escaped, but vlad was coming near the turret and I said "hey I can use my ult to make him be hit by the turret more!" I knock him close to my teammate, he kills my teammate and pepperonis out
Gragas's ult is everything I could want, though. It's "fuck off," it's "c'mere," it disorients and debuffs. Between that and Body Slamming through walls, Gragas is stupid fun.
This isn't strictly true, but you need somebody capable of getting into the mix without dying, or have mostly characters that are very able to escape when needed (Ezreal, Kassadin), or have a support capable of saving a focused teammate (Kayle, Zilean). It really makes the team composition far more critical if you go tankless, and it's very easy to do it wrong.
Was grabbing Nashor's Tooth then Guinsoo's Rageblade with Swiftness/Mercs depending on the team.
Hm, I play this game with my friend, and he mains garen. Let me tell you, Garen is way better than Olaf. Olaf kind of sucks. Just make sure you go with a tanky build for Garen, you'll get more damage out of it than a DPS build (in team fights, of course).
But if you want to switch to a better champion than Garen, I would just skip to Poppy and destroy people with sheen. Olaf is too easily focused and his slow is garbage.
Thats basically it right there. The other hybrid items like Triforce or Gunblade can work or you can go for defensive items if needed. I think I've played like mayyybe 3 games with Kayle where I get to buy something else after boots/rageblade/nashor's.
magic pen for red
health/lvl for yellow??
and AP/lvl for blue????
i also assume that flat health quints are common sense by now
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Ap/lvl works out to something like 27AP at level 18. I'd personally rather have ~6% CDR throughout the whole game so I can get more free gold from creeps.
Mpen red is indeed a solid idea as are the HP quints; more specialized choices might also work but you'll use HP on everyone and Mpen on whoever isn't an autoattack physical champ basically.
Same deal for the CDR glyphs, really, they're always useful, though expensive.
Battle.net
Olaf is very good. If you think he can be focused easily, you haven't played with or against a good Olaf. Between his ult, high values on every survival stat (HP, Armor, MR), and Ghost, he's pretty much impossible to focus easily, except on fail teams.
He can also jungle from level 1, which makes him extremely good for team comps, esp. in normal mode. Given the chance, I try to grab a team comp with 1 jungler every game, and I actually like his jungling the most. Warwick is much better these days since Riot foolishly nerfed Cleanse into the ground, but if they ever fix it, Olaf is better vs. cleanse heavy teams.
Edit: To clarify, he isn't "I'll play Olaf in the game to win the money I need to save the family farm," good, but I have had more good games than bad with him.
Thought you had to wait till 21 for tier 3.
Olaf is just a lot of fun. You get rewarded for diving into a fight and committing to it.
He just...isn't a meaningful threat. I don't know how to rectify that problem. Maybe it's just because my teams were awful and I had nothing to work with, but it just didn't feel like I could help. I'm used to playing characters that can always make a difference.
White FC: 0819 3350 1787